BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Neptune66 on November 08, 2008, 01:04:53 PM
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I believe I am missing one type of reaction in my arsenal. A ball that has a relatively mild coverstock, yet plows through the pins with very little deflection. Is there any consensus on which ball might be considered a very hard hitting ball, despite a relatively mild or non-aggressive coverstock?
In other words... something stronger than plastic, but not a lot. With an aggressive core and mild coverstock? Is there such an animal?
I want it to get down the lane and have minimal movement, but plow through pins ---presuming it's on target.
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X-Factor Deuce
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Street Rod Solid or Pearl
Any of the Vibes
Avalache Solid or Pearl
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My Arsenal:
Twisted Fury
Raw Hammer Pain
Blue Vibe
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Neptune, Ogre SS, Avalanche and Avalanche Slide are all weaker balls but have cores so they should have some more power then pancake cored balls.
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My Vid (http://"http://s37.photobucket.com/albums/e56/RevLefty/Vids/?action=view¤t=08.flv")
Formerly Brunswick Lefty & Richard Cranium
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One would assume that any ball that is aggressive enough to allow it to continue through the pins with minimum/proper deflection (which is actually what causes the ball to "hit like a truck")is also going to have perhaps more grab in the backend than you are asking for.
Of course, you also know what "assume" really means so take the above statement with a grain of salt.
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Never take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.
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My personal Favorite is the smash time solid, and possibly the brown bash. The raid works well too, but it's a little stronger than what I think you might be looking for...
I'd go with a smash time if you can find one. Seriously.
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Bakersfield, California
Robb's Pro Shops
Rev Rate: 400-450
Speed: 16-17 mph
Current Average: 236
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Actually... I have a Raid and have had a lot of success with it until recently.
Either the pattern has changed (at my favorite center), or I'm just not throwing as hard, but the majority of my shots are making their move early. Unusual as I have always been speed dominant player, and used to be very frustrated when I couldn't get enough movement out of a ball.
I have older equipment that consists of balls that WERE very aggressive in their day (Storm Triple X, for instance), but they don't seem to hit with the same force as the Raid. Even when they arrive at the pocket at what appears to be a good angle.
So I guess I'm looking for something a little weaker than my Raid, but without sacrificing the power it has. It's not burning up. Just a hair early as far as when it's grabbing.
That's why I'm thinking weak as far as reaction, but not with a weak (pancake type) core.
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quote:
Actually... I have a Raid and have had a lot of success with it until recently.
Either the pattern has changed (at my favorite center), or I'm just not throwing as hard, but the majority of my shots are making their move early. Unusual as I have always been speed dominant player, and used to be very frustrated when I couldn't get enough movement out of a ball.
I have older equipment that consists of balls that WERE very aggressive in their day (Storm Triple X, for instance), but they don't seem to hit with the same force as the Raid. Even when they arrive at the pocket at what appears to be a good angle.
So I guess I'm looking for something a little weaker than my Raid, but without sacrificing the power it has. It's not burning up. Just a hair early as far as when it's grabbing.
That's why I'm thinking weak as far as reaction, but not with a weak (pancake type) core.
Ahh, I see.
I would still say go with the smash time, but now I'd suggest the pearl if you're looking for a little more length over your raid. Maybe something like the New Bash (Brown one), or the Avalanche Pearl. Drill either of these pin under the ring finger, and I think you'll like the results. If you're an ebonite guy, stick with ebonite or vice versa. I'm Ebonite, Almost 100% of the time, but I do have an Avalanche Pearl. I like it, but it's not great for my game I need the Ebonite Equivalent (Brown Bash).
The smash time and pearl version of the smash time are my personal favorites as far as my middle of the road stuff, but if you're looking for a little more length, mild reaction, and still a strong push, I'll make a short list of stuff (a lot of it's older)...
Crossfire
Ice
Black Ice
Smash Time Pearl*
Bash (either one) (New one*)
Clash (Either one)
Avalanche Pearl*
Not a big storm guy, can't help you there. Maybe a Saturn/Pluto for Roto Grip...
Any of these pin under, semi basic drilling would be good in my opinion, with the ones having stars being the best.
I'd lay them out something like this:
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--O-O--
----p--
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---cg--
---O---
That should get you length (coverstock)
controlability (Layout)
And hit (decent weight blocks)
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Bakersfield, California
Robb's Pro Shops
Rev Rate: 400-450
Speed: 16-17 mph
Current Average: 236
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Thanks. I am making a note of all the balls being mentioned and starting to get into ball aquisition mode (or already was and am just trying to rationalize buying another).
Also... although I do purchase plenty of brand new balls, I saw a few used balls for sale at one of the pro-shops I frequent, and wondering if they might work.
There was a "Twisted Fury Solid" (I think it was the solid....either that or "Twisted Fury" with a very dull finish), and a Storm "Fired Up". Might have been a Cherry Vibe there too....not sure.
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My Liberator hits very well, definitely needs some dry to get going and is susceptible to carrydown, but it reacts very even and is my goto ball on lighter stuff due to the control and the ability to carry well. I don't mean this as a Lane 1 plug but the ball just matches up for me well and has been very good for me as my mild ball.
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http://www.absolutebowling.com
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quote:
Thanks. I am making a note of all the balls being mentioned and starting to get into ball aquisition mode (or already was and am just trying to rationalize buying another).
Also... although I do purchase plenty of brand new balls, I saw a few used balls for sale at one of the pro-shops I frequent, and wondering if they might work.
There was a "Twisted Fury Solid" (I think it was the solid....either that or "Twisted Fury" with a very dull finish), and a Storm "Fired Up". Might have been a Cherry Vibe there too....not sure.
I think the Cherry Vibe might be just what you're looking for as well (forgot to address Hammer). The Twisteds will probably be a little bit more than what you're seeking, and the fired up...well, I've heard good and bad about the ball.
I'd think about the fired up too, though, maybe do a little research.
As far as what The Crowned Prince said about his Dry/R, let's not forget he's the most amazing bowler in all of America and must be hailed as such.
You've got your head on straight...ignore him. You're on the right track with a weaker coverstock and a stronger weight block with a medium drill.
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Power Groove?
How would the weaker core help? Maybe if you have a lot of revs the deflection actually helps create more pin action?
There are players in my leagues that use plastic (or weak reactive) balls and have the same kind of success you are describing. But most of them have a lot of hand. Even though my speed seems to be decreasing or deficient lately, no one would ever say that I put a lot of revs on the ball. Basically go down and in and rely mostly on speed.
I TRY to put revs on the ball and I TRY to send the ball out sometimes, but I would be very surprised if I were able to get the kind of reaction you're describing.
Still.... my gears are turning.
:-)
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quote:
Thanks. I am making a note of all the balls being mentioned and starting to get into ball aquisition mode (or already was and am just trying to rationalize buying another).
Also... although I do purchase plenty of brand new balls, I saw a few used balls for sale at one of the pro-shops I frequent, and wondering if they might work.
There was a "Twisted Fury Solid" (I think it was the solid....either that or "Twisted Fury" with a very dull finish), and a Storm "Fired Up". Might have been a Cherry Vibe there too....not sure.
I think the Cherry Vibe might be just what you're looking for as well (forgot to address Hammer). The Twisteds will probably be a little bit more than what you're seeking, and the fired up...well, I've heard good and bad about the ball.
I'd think about the fired up too, though, maybe do a little research.
As far as what The Crowned Prince said about his Dry/R, let's not forget he's the most amazing bowler in all of America and must be hailed as such.
You've got your head on straight...ignore him. You're on the right track with a weaker coverstock and a stronger weight block with a medium drill.
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Bakersfield, California
Robb's Pro Shops
Rev Rate: 400-450
Speed: 16-17 mph
Current Average: 236
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quote:
Power Groove?
How would the weaker core help? Maybe if you have a lot of revs the deflection actually helps create more pin action?
There are players in my leagues that use plastic (or weak reactive) balls and have the same kind of success you are describing. But most of them have a lot of hand. Even though my speed seems to be decreasing or deficient lately, no one would ever say that I put a lot of revs on the ball. Basically go down and in and rely mostly on speed.
I TRY to put revs on the ball and I TRY to send the ball out sometimes, but I would be very surprised if I were able to get the kind of reaction you're describing.
Still.... my gears are turning.
:-)
I repeat. Ignore TCP. He's an idiot. Have you seen him bowl (he's got vids on Youtube)? Or if you look at his other posts it becomes abundantly clear he's not the most educated man as far as bowling (or life/manners) are concerned.
I'm on his ignore list for disagreeing with him, so he can't read this...but that's beside the point.
You're on the right track. Stay away from the pancake cores.
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Bakersfield, California
Robb's Pro Shops
Rev Rate: 400-450
Speed: 16-17 mph
Current Average: 236
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It's amazing the things that pop into one's head while typing out a reply or post here.
One of my teammates is kind of disgusted with his Cherry Vibe and at least as of last week was considering getting rid of it. He's not unhappy with the reaction, it's the drilling he's had trouble with, and has grown tired of trying to get it drilled right.
I'll ask him later this week if he's still looking to part with it. And if that doesn't work out, then I can start checking out some of the other balls mentioned here.
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Right on.
Hope all the info I gave helped.
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Bakersfield, California
Robb's Pro Shops
Rev Rate: 400-450
Speed: 16-17 mph
Current Average: 236
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Yes it did. Thanks.
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Neptune66, I don't mean to step on anyone's feet or call out others as idiots, but I speak from my own experiences. From what you are saying I had been in a similar situation until I got my Liberator.
I tried the Cherry and Emerald Vibe's and found them much to strong, the regular Power Groove was much the same. What I found was the Razyr by was a nice Surprise though I never bought it, still contemplating it. The whole pancake core thing causing a ball not to hit is blasphemy from my experiences, your still throwing a 15lb or so object at pins and if its hooking into the deck the core shape really doesn't have much difference from what i've seen. I have used tornado's a lot and still use mine from time to time, weak core in it but it hits just fine, its all about matching up to the condition.
And as I mentioned in my first post in this topic i'd reccomend checking out the Liberator by Lane 1, it is a urethane ball with their diamond core, which in box finish is a bit strong but after taking it to 4k abralon and attempting to polish it (got it to a sheen like state) the ball is great for me on light conditions and hits well, and it could just be more of me matching up but I get comments on the ball all the time and personally feel it is a good piece to consider.
I hope you do find something and it works out.
P.S. rockerbowler18, we all know that TCP has had his moments on here, but he just offered his opinions from his experiences and that should be respected, I feel you should show some respect and rethink how you conducted yourself on this topic
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http://www.absolutebowling.com
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If you want you can really take it to the extreme and go with an XXXL (Plastic with a core) but the Liberator seems like it could be a good choice. I haven't actually thrown one, but from everything ive seen the diamond core truly hits like a mack truck.
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1. I have my reasons for saying what i said.
2. I don't know much about lane#1, as i've found it doesn't match up well with my game, but it sounds like the liberator might work. The only thing i've found is that reactive resin gives a little more miss room than urethane, even with a more sophisticated weight block...
That being said, i'd still go with a low to mid-priced reactive with a basic weight block, as it's less likely to be so condition specific.
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Bakersfield, California
Robb's Pro Shops
Rev Rate: 400-450
Speed: 16-17 mph
Current Average: 236
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All you guys are missing the 900 Global Link. Excellent length with surprising hitting power. It would seem to me to be exactly what he is looking for.
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Gentlemen... I DO appreciate ALL the comments, and didn't want to start a little skirmish between posters, though I guess it's inevitable in this forum with so many different (and strong) opinions involved.
All information helps, because the way my arsenal over time (and I am in my low 50's...been bowling for many many years) consists mainly of current aggressive balls and formerly aggressive balls. And my knowledge and reference point for comparison shopping of the lower priced or less aggressive stuff is minimal because of this.
I had (until recently when, after numerous re-drills it lost a part of it's filler around the fingers and I donated it to the lanes) a green circa-1982 Brunswick Plastic ball and still have a Brunswick Black Diamond. But there's a void between those balls and the rest of my stuff that I am only now looking to fill (never felt I needed that type ball before). So... you guys did exactly what I needed you to do. Gave me some ideas as to some current and older equipment that might be the answer. And, I'm kind of lazy, of course, and like to be able to see and touch the ball before I buy it. So I'm a little more interested in balls that I've actually seen in the pro shop or that I could buy off a friend (aka the Cherry Vibe). But that doesnt mean I'm not still considering the rest. Just wanted to narrow the field a bit and get some info.
So thank you again to all.
Oh... as for my arsenal. I'll try to remember all to list here in no particular order (most are 16's, a few 15's):
Brunswick Command Zone
Brunswick HPC Danger Zone
Storm El-Nino X-it
Storm Trauma Recovery
Champions Ultimate Weapon
Columbia Complete Chaos
Brunswick Black Diamond
Hammer [Raw] Anger (2 of them)
Hammer Black Widow Bite
Ebonite Big One (2 of these also)
Storm Triple X Factor (2 of these)
Storm Triple Extreme (2 of these too)
Ebonite Raid (2 of them)
And I think that's all of them. Until recently, I never felt the need for anything weaker than any of these, as some of the older ones are effectively only medium strength despite their heritage. Actually best for me would be something like my Command Zone which still hits very hard and still moves well. Something just like it, but at a slightly lower level.
And I'm open to new ball companies, BUT... as I said, interested mainly in brands/balls I have easy access to. And I am old fashioned and loyal and will not buy a ball on the internet and ask my driller to fit it for me. I still believe in buyin from my driller (or a friend) even if the price is higher with the driller. But that should be another thread.
The brands I have SEEN in the Pro Shops I visit most are:
Brunswick, Storm, Hammer, Columbia, Ebonite, and Track.
Some day I would like to try Lane 1, Lanemasters, 900 global, Visonary, etc., but as I mentioned, want to see them up close and personal beforehand.
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The answer to your question:
http://www.ballreviews.com/Reviews/Reviews.asp?ManufacterID=5&BallID=820
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"I don't want to be remembered, I want to be forgotten"
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I would say either the Razyr, Black Ice if you can get your hands on one, or the new Black and Red Bash.
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Lefty
480 rpms
300
800(1)
Average 220+
http://ebonite.com/
BOWL TO WIN!
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quote:
If you want you can really take it to the extreme and go with an XXXL (Plastic with a core) but the Liberator seems like it could be a good choice. I haven't actually thrown one, but from everything ive seen the diamond core truly hits like a mack truck.
If you're looking for plastic, Lane #1's XXXL is un-parrelled. Also, the Liberator polished up with a high gloss will be the next step down, with it's urethane(BUD) coverstock.
But, if you're looking for a resin ball, the new Chainsaw has the lowest flare on the market, making it clean as a whistle through the front part of the lane, with amazing pop on the backend. The Chainsaw lets you play tighter to the dry, allowing you to go straighter, keeping you closer to the pattern. And, it also let's you go coast to coast, with no loss of energy when needed. A must have for everyone on drier lanes. =:^D
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just from my experiences.. I don't know all your stats and such but my pluto is to srong for light oil its actually a very strong ball just like both of my vibes. for dry I have a scout and a older sonic x solid. I don't have any carry issues with my scout. I'm not a big b fan for the most part but all 3 avalanches roll very well..
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Id like to plug the first Bash, i have one and it has great length, it is smooth off the friction and hits very well for such a weak cored ball.
Another option might be the Morich MoJave, I havent seen many of these thrown but BTM raved about it.
Edited on 11/9/2008 5:58 PM
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Columbia 300 Messenger Ti
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Current Arsenal (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
Brunswick Fury
Columbia 300 EPX T1
Storm X-Factor Vertigo
Hammer Black Widow
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb Solid
Brunswick Quantum Helix
Brunswick Quantum Double Helix
Storm Recharge
Columbia 300 SuperBeast
Storm Hit Blue Pearl
Brunswick Target Spare Zone
Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
Averages: Fall/Winter Sub 2007 213.000 Fall/Winter Season 2006 206.467 2006-07 Year 213.067 2007 Tourney 178.029
2006-07 League Champions
2007-08 League Champions
2008-09 Three-Peat???
Hall of Fame BR Member Since: April 3, 2001
6'0" and ~210lbs @10% BF
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MOjave
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MainzerPower
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Sting Zone is pretty good
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Raceway Lanes FOREVER!!! ROYAL PIN YOUR WHATS WRONG IN INDY!!!!
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Oh... in answer to "TheCrownedPrince"'s question, Yes, I would say my Complete Chaos is the weakest in my arsenal. And it's not that weak, but enough so that I can control it when the lanes are drying out. The Ultimate Weapon also. But it gets squirty when there is carrydown. Chaos is more dependable.
And the reviews I saw of the Avalanche Pearl look exactly like what I'm looking for. Doesn' mean I'll settle on that ball, but thank you again to you and everyone else for giving me some ideas I can work with
Edited on 11/9/2008 11:10 PM
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Holy Cow(!!!!) did it take a LOT of work to get a Liberator polished with a high gloss. It is what I wanted it to be now, but it sure wasn't easy!
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If you're looking for plastic, Lane #1's XXXL is un-parrelled. Also, the Liberator polished up with a high gloss will be the next step down, with it's urethane(BUD) coverstock.
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Don't argue with an idiot people watching may not be able to tell the difference.
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quote:
Holy Cow(!!!!) did it take a LOT of work to get a Liberator polished with a high gloss. It is what I wanted it to be now, but it sure wasn't easy!
quote:
If you're looking for plastic, Lane #1's XXXL is un-parrelled. Also, the Liberator polished up with a high gloss will be the next step down, with it's urethane(BUD) coverstock.
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Don't argue with an idiot people watching may not be able to tell the difference.
QFT, I tried the sauce and it got it to a sheen but after a while it just wasn't doing the job, used me some Ebonite Factory Finish and in 5 more minutes of high speed I got mine really shiny. Not a dis on the sauce but I found the ebonite stuff to work better.
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http://www.absolutebowling.com
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Any entry level ball will probably do. Brunswick's Avalanches also fill that role, as well as the discontinued Jolts from Storm.
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DizzyFugu (http://"http://www.putfile.com/dizzyfugu/") - Reporting from Germany
Confused by bowling?
Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
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Lanemaster's Hornet
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220...221...whatever it takes.
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Roto Grip Neptune, without a doubt.
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University at Albany 2007
-Let's Go Danes-
ROTO GRIP - King of Them All
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quote:
Either the pattern has changed (at my favorite center), or I'm just not throwing as hard, but the majority of my shots are making their move early. Unusual as I have always been speed dominant player, and used to be very frustrated when I couldn't get enough movement out of a ball.
Neptune -- I'm going to suggest another solution. From your description, and assuming you're bowling on some version of a THS, I think you're not lined up right. Try moving your line further inside to keep the ball in the oil longer before it makes its move when it hits the end of the pattern. Maybe get to the lanes an hour or so early for league and throw a couple of practice games to get lined up. -- JohnP
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Thanks John. I will try moving inside a bit.
As for practicing before league, I used to be able to do that, but this year there they added a league in front of us, so practice would have to end an hour before league starts
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quote:
In other words... something stronger than plastic, but not a lot. With an aggressive core and mild coverstock? Is there such an animal?
Nope...Not really a market for it in terms of mass sales. People want hook hook hook! LOL. Thats what sells. Thats why you see people with neptunes, plutos, vibes, or even avalanches hooking the lane. I would recommend going with a medium strong solid such as a Grand illusion, I am biased to roto grip but any other companies mid line would work just as well. And drill it weak, like 5 1/2 - 6" Pin to PAP.
The reason I stress solid is because of the ease of cover adjustments...add polish to store more energy or scuff it up to bleed some of it off. I also like to drill the ball so that you can easily add a Flare increasing weight hole. Throw it without one first, play with the surface and if you see you need just a tad more "pop" then drill the flare increasing weight hole. I think that this will get you exactly what your looking for.
Hope this helped,
BMM
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Roto Grip forever!!!! What else is there??
Team Member Of
Hoss Central Inc.
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Found a Jolt Pearl on the used rack and picked it up.
Looking forward to trying it out Thursday or Saturday after the lanes have started drying out.
If it works out, then...being a ball whore, I'll probably want to buy a couple more balls (new ones) for this condition.
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My original Storm Eraser PBT, loved that ball.
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titletowncards
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I have both the Hornet and the Neptune. Shot a 300 with the Neptune. The Neptune is a great light oil ball the carry is tremendous but is much stronger off the break point then the Hornet. The Hornet has more controll off the break point and won't get you in trouble unless there is more oil then light.
My teammate throws the Avalanche solid polished and thats his control ball. Seems to handle more oil then the Neptune but I don't think the carry is as good.
I'm sure surface prep and drilling can help any of these bowling balls handle more or less oil and start up earlier or later, so I like to go with a weightblock that will help carry better, so I use the Neptune.
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
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I promise you that the ball you desire is called the AMF Hei$t. It is simply the most forgiving, controllable solid you will ever throw. The fact that people don't know about this ball continues to blow me away. Go pick one of these up for some ridiculous price (like less than 70 shipped) and thank me later.
And I am in no way an AMF lover... Hammer guy actually, but this ball is awesome.
Speaking of Hammer, if you could find either of the PURE Hammers, you would be golden as well.
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For Sale or trade for 14lb equipment:
http://www.putfile.com/album/170526
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The PowerGroove pearl/reactive is your animal.
Amazing predictably and a nice tame reaction. Versatile on numerous conditions. Hit and carry closely equals the high-end stuff. My go too ball 4 sure.
I'm a low-rev fluffer. It's an animal for me.....
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FOS
Edited on 11/11/2008 11:03 AM
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Anything in the Roto Grip Planet lineup! All are very controllable with a strong finish and hit! Just my $.02, Bruce
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"Train a child up in the way he should go and when he is old he will "BOWL UP A STORM AND BE KING OF THEM ALL" and not turn from it."
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Columbia Jazz as this is the ball that fills that spot in my arsenal very well indeed....truly a ball well worth the 80 bucks it costs.
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“Every now and then when your life gets complicated and the weasels start closing in, the only cure is to load up on heinous chemicals and then drive like a b@$tard from Hollywood to Las Vegas ... with the music at top volume and at least a pint of ether.â€
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Roto grip MTX "Blem", there is not another ball like it.
"These are almost unique. During the manufacturing process, the resin additives were basicly left out of some batches of these, leaving the coverstock basicly like urethane. Mtaching this with the high differential core which, if put into a new ball would not be leagl for use, gives you a very high flaring ball that can be used on lighter and shorter oil patterns meaning that you do not have to sacrifice reaction and caryy though you would if you used a basic entry level ball.
http://www.rpsbowling.rpsenterprise.com/balls/blems/
I have one, and I also used to have the regular(non-blem) MTX, and this ball is as advertised.
Brad