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Author Topic: Moving in off the burn after transition.  (Read 7805 times)

Juggernaut

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Moving in off the burn after transition.
« on: April 10, 2022, 08:10:59 PM »
 This is going to sound dumb coming from someone who’s been bowling as long as I have, but I need some help/advice from some of you reactive era guys.

 I’ve never really had a game plan for changing conditions. Just tried my best to read them, and adjust accordingly. But, I always struggle the last game, and don’t guess I really understand “moving left and wheeling it off the burn”.

 Is there a plan?

 What do you look for? A cleaner ball that’s flippier? An overall stronger reaction, or just something cleaner that is quicker response?

 Help me out guys. Never took this part of the game serious enough I guess, and now that I’m almost 62, I sure could use some advice.
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psycaz

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Re: Moving in off the burn after transition.
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2022, 04:47:23 PM »
Bowled last night.

Hugh humidity, approaches were sticky. I had issues most of the night with it.

Started with 143, 142 with my Hectic. Complete opposite of what I’d been doing the last bit.

Switched to the Raw Hammer Orange I just had drilled. 30, over 15 at the arrows, out to between 8-10. Shot 233.

Juggernaut, maybe try something the will clear the front a bit easier but pop off the spot and give bouncing it off the burn shot during the third game.

The track area seemed to have gotten pretty beat up watching the reaction of everyone else.
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Juggernaut

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Re: Moving in off the burn after transition.
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2022, 07:55:11 PM »
Quote from: psycaz on April 14, 2022, 04:47:23 PM

Juggernaut, maybe try something the will clear the front a bit easier but pop off the spot and give bouncing it off the burn shot during the third game.

The track area seemed to have gotten pretty beat up watching the reaction of everyone else.

That “Clear the heads and pop off the back” part is what gets me. That’s what I’m looking for, but balling down they still want to read the burn too early, and puke on the carry down.

Balling up and moving in hasn’t worked either because I move into the oil to get the ball through the fronts, and it doesn’t want to come around the corner.

 Think I’m going to try a strong Pearl or hybrid symmetrical ball. The IQ Tour Pearl and electrify Pearl don’t  seem to have enough diff to get back, the asymmetric night prowler and hyper cell fused seem to roll forward too much and don’t enter the pocket right, the red melee is pin down (big Val angle) and is just too slow/smooth.
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SVstar34

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Re: Moving in off the burn after transition.
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2022, 08:05:21 PM »
Quote from: Juggernaut on April 14, 2022, 07:55:11 PM
Quote from: psycaz on April 14, 2022, 04:47:23 PM

Juggernaut, maybe try something the will clear the front a bit easier but pop off the spot and give bouncing it off the burn shot during the third game.

The track area seemed to have gotten pretty beat up watching the reaction of everyone else.

That “Clear the heads and pop off the back” part is what gets me. That’s what I’m looking for, but balling down they still want to read the burn too early, and puke on the carry down.

Balling up and moving in hasn’t worked either because I move into the oil to get the ball through the fronts, and it doesn’t want to come around the corner.

 Think I’m going to try a strong Pearl or hybrid symmetrical ball. The IQ Tour Pearl and electrify Pearl don’t  seem to have enough diff to get back, the asymmetric night prowler and hyper cell fused seem to roll forward too much and don’t enter the pocket right, the red melee is pin down (big Val angle) and is just too slow/smooth.

So another Melee Jab pin up then, a Stellar could be good too since it's med rg with higher diff still, Kinetic, Supra
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psycaz

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Re: Moving in off the burn after transition.
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2022, 10:11:47 PM »
Quote from: Juggernaut on April 14, 2022, 07:55:11 PM
Quote from: psycaz on April 14, 2022, 04:47:23 PM

Juggernaut, maybe try something the will clear the front a bit easier but pop off the spot and give bouncing it off the burn shot during the third game.

The track area seemed to have gotten pretty beat up watching the reaction of everyone else.

That “Clear the heads and pop off the back” part is what gets me. That’s what I’m looking for, but balling down they still want to read the burn too early, and puke on the carry down.

Balling up and moving in hasn’t worked either because I move into the oil to get the ball through the fronts, and it doesn’t want to come around the corner.

 Think I’m going to try a strong Pearl or hybrid symmetrical ball. The IQ Tour Pearl and electrify Pearl don’t  seem to have enough diff to get back, the asymmetric night prowler and hyper cell fused seem to roll forward too much and don’t enter the pocket right, the red melee is pin down (big Val angle) and is just too slow/smooth.

Believe me, I know what you mean about wanting to read the burn too early. I was going to go with the blue Silver Raw, but my son said it was picky off the spot compared to the Orange Black. He collaborated with a coworker on the ball choice. He really thought a Pearl was a better option for me, but with the limited stock, the pickiness lost out. He suggested the layout too.

I like the Pearl or Hybrid part. Maybe work with your pro shop on a layout to help with getting through the burn. My son erased my layout 4x before settling on what he did. Just kept saying it didn’t look right for what I needed.

One more week left and I’m taking time off. I really need it.
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itsallaboutme

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Re: Moving in off the burn after transition.
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2022, 06:06:17 AM »
Sometimes you need a new trick and not a new ball. 
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Juggernaut

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Re: Moving in off the burn after transition.
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2022, 06:03:34 PM »
Quote from: itsallaboutme on April 15, 2022, 06:06:17 AM
Sometimes you need a new trick and not a new ball. 

Yeah, I get that, and I agree, but I’m about out of tricks.

 Used to have a bag of tricks bigger than Felix the Cat, but Father Time and a shattered elbow that won’t straighten completely out anymore take their toll.

 Had to relearn my hand/eye coordination 10 years ago, as the elbow surgery left me with a complete different armswing and ability to project the ball, rotate it correctly, and hit my target. When I first got back, my eyes and arm were out of sync by about 6 boards.

Maybe I should just accept that it’s something I just can’t do?
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itsallaboutme

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Re: Moving in off the burn after transition.
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2022, 06:27:25 PM »
Not many guy’s trick at 62 is moving left and circling the lane.
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Remmah

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Re: Moving in off the burn after transition.
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2022, 08:33:35 PM »
If you want to try a new ball try something with an RG: 2.55 or higher with a low diff and drill it pin down Storm Match ups were really good in that layout not many balls with those specs though but trust me it works
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Remmah

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Re: Moving in off the burn after transition.
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2022, 08:37:39 PM »
Quote from: itsallaboutme on April 15, 2022, 06:27:25 PM
Not many guy’s trick at 62 is moving left and circling the lane.

That’s not a trick that’s lane play
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northface28

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Re: Moving in off the burn after transition.
« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2022, 04:38:12 AM »
Quote from: Remmah on April 15, 2022, 08:37:39 PM
Quote from: itsallaboutme on April 15, 2022, 06:27:25 PM
Not many guy’s trick at 62 is moving left and circling the lane.

That’s not a trick that’s lane play

False, it is a trick. If you don’t have the appropriate tilt and/or axis rotation the ball will stand up and go forward flagging the headpin.
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Dakota1

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Re: Moving in off the burn after transition.
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2022, 06:39:51 AM »
Hi Juggernaut -  I to love my bowling.  I am 81 and enjoy getting up in the morning, going to league, I am in 4 leagues at different centers, and enjoying throwing shots.  Also, I truly enjoy coaching.  I am a Silver / Gold Level coach and a high school coach.  What I have found for your stated topic is a special Dual Angle Drill Pattern.  This pattern will push the ball down the lane and give you a control trajectory arc.  This takes away the big snap down lane but lets you keep the ball in front of you.  Some of my arsenal  examples - 1. Nova (RG 2.49 / Diff 0.052), 70* x 4" x 75* = 145*, 2. Katana Dragon (RG 2.503 / Diff 0.050) 70* x 5" x 75* = 145*, 3. Soul (RG 2.583 / Diff 0.041) 90* x 2.25" x 458 = 135*, 4. Proton PhysiX (RG 2.48 / Diff 0.053) 70* x 5' x 75* = 145*.  Note these balls are Solid or HyBrid and have lower to mid level RG's and higher Differentials.    With these balls I able to stay right of the other players.  Talk with your PSO and come to a quality solution.  Coach Denny
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Remmah

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Re: Moving in off the burn after transition.
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2022, 06:55:50 AM »
Quote from: northface28 on April 16, 2022, 04:38:12 AM
Quote from: Remmah on April 15, 2022, 08:37:39 PM
Quote from: itsallaboutme on April 15, 2022, 06:27:25 PM
Not many guy’s trick at 62 is moving left and circling the lane.

That’s not a trick that’s lane play

False, it is a trick. If you don’t have the appropriate tilt and/or axis rotation the ball will stand up and go forward flagging the headpin.



Absolutely FALSE
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Juggernaut

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Re: Moving in off the burn after transition.
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2022, 08:33:03 AM »
Quote from: Remmah on April 16, 2022, 06:55:50 AM
Quote from: northface28 on April 16, 2022, 04:38:12 AM
Quote from: Remmah on April 15, 2022, 08:37:39 PM
Quote from: itsallaboutme on April 15, 2022, 06:27:25 PM
Not many guy’s trick at 62 is moving left and circling the lane.

That’s not a trick that’s lane play

False, it is a trick. If you don’t have the appropriate tilt and/or axis rotation the ball will stand up and go forward flagging the headpin.

Absolutely FALSE

No need to fuss about it guys, I’ve been around long enough to know what he means, and no disrespect was meant. He’s just keeping it real, and he’s right, not many my age would be trying to move in and circle the lane.

 From what I’ve gathered in this discussion is that I have an idea of what to do, I’ve just been going about it the wrong way, and with an incorrect mindset.

 Going to get a shiny ball, maybe one with a bit higher RG, with a diff around .050 and a quicker response cover, drill it to flare later than usual, and recognize my current ability and limitation levels.

 Maybe I can do it, maybe I can’t, but either way it’s up to me.

Thanks for the advice and help guys. I’ve often said there was far more knowledge here than people often realized, and this conversation shows that.
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psycaz

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Re: Moving in off the burn after transition.
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2022, 11:19:20 AM »
Quote from: Juggernaut on April 16, 2022, 08:33:03 AM
Quote from: Remmah on April 16, 2022, 06:55:50 AM
Quote from: northface28 on April 16, 2022, 04:38:12 AM
Quote from: Remmah on April 15, 2022, 08:37:39 PM
Quote from: itsallaboutme on April 15, 2022, 06:27:25 PM
Not many guy’s trick at 62 is moving left and circling the lane.

That’s not a trick that’s lane play

False, it is a trick. If you don’t have the appropriate tilt and/or axis rotation the ball will stand up and go forward flagging the headpin.

Absolutely FALSE

No need to fuss about it guys, I’ve been around long enough to know what he means, and no disrespect was meant. He’s just keeping it real, and he’s right, not many my age would be trying to move in and circle the lane.

 From what I’ve gathered in this discussion is that I have an idea of what to do, I’ve just been going about it the wrong way, and with an incorrect mindset.

 Going to get a shiny ball, maybe one with a bit higher RG, with a diff around .050 and a quicker response cover, drill it to flare later than usual, and recognize my current ability and limitation levels.

 Maybe I can do it, maybe I can’t, but either way it’s up to me.

Thanks for the advice and help guys. I’ve often said there was far more knowledge here than people often realized, and this conversation shows that.

Have you considered going down in weight on a ball for that third game? Something that you might naturally/easily be able to get a bit more oomph on to get it through the burn?

That was the original idea with my Hectic. I was throwing 15, it’s about 13.5. It was a gift from a lefty. My pro shop knew my issues and just looked at the layout and suggested maybe a slight move of the thumb, it would go way down lane before hooking. It was perfect. Then health issues have gotten the better of me and it’s now my main ball as 15 is just too heavy currently. 14s seem heavy, but I am muddling through with them - had a couple drilled up.

The lighter weight, offset layout gave me what seemed to be 45’ of easy distance then it would make a small move to the pocket. Carry was and still is and issue, but 9 was better than hurting myself trying to make something work from areas of the lane I just didn’t want to be in.

Just another thought.
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Juggernaut

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Re: Moving in off the burn after transition.
« Reply #30 on: April 16, 2022, 11:45:31 AM »
Quote from: psycaz on April 16, 2022, 11:19:20 AM
Have you considered going down in weight on a ball for that third game? Something that you might naturally/easily be able to get a bit more oomph on to get it through the burn?

That was the original idea with my Hectic. I was throwing 15, it’s about 13.5. It was a gift from a lefty. My pro shop knew my issues and just looked at the layout and suggested maybe a slight move of the thumb, it would go way down lane before hooking. It was perfect. Then health issues have gotten the better of me and it’s now my main ball as 15 is just too heavy currently. 14s seem heavy, but I am muddling through with them - had a couple drilled up.

The lighter weight, offset layout gave me what seemed to be 45’ of easy distance then it would make a small move to the pocket. Carry was and still is and issue, but 9 was better than hurting myself trying to make something work from areas of the lane I just didn’t want to be in.

Just another thought.

Yes, actually I have.

 I used 14lbs for a while a few years back (due to a wrist situation), and had great luck with it. I, personally, couldn’t tell the difference in carry much. The light shots didn’t kick quite as hard, but the flush ones were just as solid as with 15lb stuff.

 May look at that for next season. I usually buy some newer stuff ever season, and might drop down next year. Certainly not afraid of it at all.
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