Post by: raiderh20boy on July 18, 2011, 09:06:36 AM
I just started to have some fun with our new Ball Surface Scanner. So far we have got some very interesting results on some NIBS!! As an example, on a ball listed as 2000 Abralon our scanner shows an average surface of 1746 with a deviation of 638! We have found some NIB up to 800 grit more than listed, and one polished ball that is listed as 500 grit/rough buff/high gloss has a surface avg of OVER 5000!!
Use "IT" and BOWL UP A STORM!!
Post by: DukeHarding on July 18, 2011, 05:10:18 PM
Duke Harding
Post by: qstick777 on July 18, 2011, 06:41:46 PM
Doesn't surprise me either. As far as the Rough Buff, Mo says it is greater than 4000 grit, and probably closer to 6000, so the 5000+ reading sounds about right.
Post by: dwandel on July 18, 2011, 07:09:40 PM
my pro shop also picked up the scanner at Bowl Expo is finding similiar results.many NIB's do not have the surface the manufacture's advertise.Some lower,some higher.Guess the only safe thing to do is resurface the ball before ever using it so you know what surface is really on the ball
Post by: DON DRAPER on July 18, 2011, 07:13:28 PM
Post by: ccrider on July 18, 2011, 07:18:19 PM
Please stop hating. Great info, for those of us who do not have a pro shop and do not want to drop several thousand for this machine.
Those that can do. Those that can't complain. Pimpin ain't easy, but it's mandatory.
Most things we like, we don't need. Most things we need, we don't like. Don't confuse your likes with your needs.
Post by: Brickguy221 on July 18, 2011, 07:53:10 PM
I agree....When manfacturers use one set of pads to finish 30-40 balls as some are reported to do, there is no way the grit can be even close between the first ball and last ball done on those pads.
**********************************************************************
"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."
Brick
Brick
Post by: dougb on July 18, 2011, 08:06:15 PM
+1 on the resurfacing
Post by: dizzyfugu on July 19, 2011, 12:46:01 AM
No wonder to me either, just a confirmation. When I tried to replicate an OOB finish, it hardly looks the same as on the new ball. Grit scale differences could be one reason, but I think that the industrial surface finishing process just leaves a way different surface.
I just wonder what deviations can be considered "normal", and how large the variance of surface grit on a typical ball would be?
Anyway, after all it just boils down to "works" or "works not". As long as I can replicate a certain finish - even without knowing the "exact" grit - I am happy. ;)
DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
2010/11 Benrather BC Club Champion
Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section
2010/11 Benrather BC Club Champion
Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section
Post by: theop879 on July 19, 2011, 01:26:09 AM
Do ball manufacters use this tool for Quality Control?
I,ve noticed difference between Virt Grav's,
measure the surface and list it on the label, in stead of that smelly stuff
Post by: DukeHarding on July 19, 2011, 06:06:22 AM
Dizzy,
Kind of makes the ball manufacturer's surface specs useless?
Say you go on a web site, and surface is listed 800/1000/2000/4000...
You buy the ball, and just love the reaction OOB....then you try to replicate the manufacturers surface....how can you do it? since you really don't know what you started with?
I guess you get a kind of general idea of the surface? and surface is considered 75% of ball reaction?
Duke Harding
Post by: on July 19, 2011, 08:17:18 AM
The manufacturer may tell you the specific steps they took, such as 500/1000/polish, but there are still way too many variables that make it impossible to recreate EXACTLY your ball's finish.
Was the abralon (sia air, sandpaper etc.) pad new? Used? Used for how many balls?
What speed was used? How much pressure applied? Water? If so, how much?
How long was spent on each step? 1 minute? 30 seconds? 2 minutes?
I say quit worrying about the exact finish. Learn to read ball reaction and make adjustments as needed to your arsenal. Even if you find your "magic" combination on a ball, can you repeat it? Even if you could, would it produce the same results now that the ball has X amount of games on it (considering wear, oil absorption, etc.)?
Surfaces are important, for sure. The fact that they can be tweaked and changed to fit a bowler's style is a very over-looked component. I just think we should eliminate the word EXACT when used in this context. It does not exist when you think of all the variables.
Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Pro Shop Staff
www.brunswickbowling.com
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
Post by: DukeHarding on July 19, 2011, 08:28:26 AM
+100
Duke Harding
Post by: qstick777 on July 19, 2011, 09:16:16 AM
You can have the same problems with your pro shop. Especially when they have multiple workers.
I know I have the same issue when I use my spinner to play with the surface. I don't keep track of how many times I've used a pad/sandpaper, exact number of drops of polish, and I only use the clock in my head!
I know there are a few on here that keep detailed records on surface changes, pad usage, time, etc, but I doubt that most pro shops do.....at least I've never seen a shop that does!
Post by: raiderh20boy on July 19, 2011, 10:39:56 AM
I am now printing out ball scans for all the NIBs in my shop to give to my customers! After playing with our Storm Surface Factory machine and different pads I am getting some really close finishes !!
Use "IT" and BOWL UP A STORM!!
Post by: Sunshine n Lollipops on July 19, 2011, 01:57:52 PM
Interesting results, for sure. Might explain why a ball is a total turd to one bowler and to the other its the Holy Grail of balls. Would be interesting to see which manufacturer is the closest and the most consistent to what they say the finish of the ball is.
Don't believe in the Uzi, it just went off in my hand. I, I believe in love.
Post by: Brickguy221 on July 19, 2011, 02:24:50 PM
+1 ... Amen ... I totally agree with Sunshine here.
**********************************************************************
"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."
Brick
Brick
Post by: ccrider on July 19, 2011, 02:35:32 PM
Can you measure the surface on an abralon pad? It would be interesting to know how fast they break down, and to what grit.
CC
Those that can do. Those that can't complain. Pimpin ain't easy, but it's mandatory.
Most things we like, we don't need. Most things we need, we don't like. Don't confuse your likes with your needs.
Post by: raiderh20boy on July 19, 2011, 02:59:17 PM
ccrider
interesting thought but I would think it's not possible as the scanner has a laser beam in a miniture bowl that is the shape of the ball and the ball passes in front of the beam. The other part would be subjective as how much pressure was used with the pads so I would assume the they would wear a different rates. I have a Storm Surface Factory Pro in my shop so I would assume the wear would be a little more consistant but still vary by not how many times it was used but actual time(minutes) used.
Use "IT" and BOWL UP A STORM!!
Edited by raiderh20boy on 7/20/2011 at 6:00 AM
Post by: on July 19, 2011, 07:43:43 PM
My point exactly. Duplicating any finish EXACTLY is probably impossible. As an example, much of my own equipment is 500/polish or compund. Anything not shiny is usually 500 and then the final grit. The more steps in between, the longer the ball wants to skid because the underlying grit gets smoothed out more and more.
It's personal preference based on the conditions we face, that is why learning to read ball reaction is priceless. You may not have the perfect surface/ball combination for any given night, but if you can read ball reaction you can usually stay close while others are moaning and groaning how bad the lanes are...
Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Pro Shop Staff
www.brunswickbowling.com
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
Post by: ccrider on July 20, 2011, 06:12:43 AM
Those that can do. Those that can't complain. Pimpin ain't easy, but it's mandatory.
Most things we like, we don't need. Most things we need, we don't like. Don't confuse your likes with your needs.
Post by: EFFEN 10 on July 20, 2011, 05:00:31 PM
This confirms my reasoning of putting MY version of the Factory surface on new bowling balls after I drill them,but before I throw them.
The more I practice,the luckier I get.
Post by: Brickguy221 on July 20, 2011, 09:12:17 PM
500 Grit Abralon and polish for me also on polished balls and 500 and final grit on not shiney balls, same as notclay....
**********************************************************************
"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."
Brick
Brick
Post by: theop879 on July 21, 2011, 02:07:59 AM
I'm not familiar with this tool, never heard of it
Can you explain how this scanner works?
Is it an expensive tool?
I'm interested in results from new balls,
can you notice difference from a used ball between track area en rest of the ball ,
Post by: DukeHarding on July 21, 2011, 06:49:05 AM
Duke Harding