BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Strider on April 19, 2021, 04:50:37 PM
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Looking for something new to add. I want something clean through the fronts and a round/smooth back end. I'd prefer something low RG and symmetrical. Medium to med/heavy sport type shots. Stronger/smoother than my Motiv Venom Shock, but less than my Storm Phase II.
What I'm most interested in
Roto Grip Idol Synergy (Seems to like straighter angles from what I've read)
900 Global Zen (Definitely smooth, not sure about overall strength)
Motiv Forge (Don't know much about it, but like Motiv and specs seem to fit)
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The Synergy is not smooth. Closer to the anti-thesis of it. I've found that the Idol balls do tend to like straighter angles but out of the four this is the one bucks the trend. Great ball, but maybe not what you're looking for.
The Zen is amazing. I've been recommending it left and right. It's especially good in the 14 lb. category. I don't throw that weight but have multiple teammates that do and for all of them it's been the best ball they've ever had. Can't imagine adding surface would be a bad thing if there's a need to tame down the back-end.
The original Forge is still a strong ball. Not quite up to the Flare's level but not sure I would consider it less than the Phaze II.
If not the Zen I'm thinking the !Q Tour Nano Pearl would fit the bill.
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If I want to bowl league again I'll pick up a Zen. Seems to be a ball you can get to do whatever you want pretty much.
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Brunswick Knock Out. Clean through the front, round shape but booms a little more than the Shock. Cover strength wise I think it fits directly in between the Shock and P2
DV8 Damn Good Verge. Low rg, low-mid diff like Shock but I think the cover is closer to P2 strength. Smoother than the Knock Out.
Hammer Obsession Tour. Low rg, low-mid diff, and mild asymmetry. "Tour" cover that is smoother
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I forgot about the Knock out - might be a good candidate. I originally wanted a Damn Good Verge, but was nervous when I saw the lower differential from the solid/pearl - didn't want anything too similar spec wise to the Venom Shock, although the covers are probably very different. Certainly had a great showing on TV not too long ago. The Obsession Tour looks interesting, but I've had very little luck with asymmetrics (although the Wicked Siege is one of my all time favorites). It does seem more versatile then most asymmetrics, so I'll keep it in mind also.
Interesting comment about the Idol Synergy. I haven't seen one in person, but have seen several original and pearls and thought they were both pretty controllable.
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Love the Zen
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I forgot about the Knock out - might be a good candidate. I originally wanted a Damn Good Verge, but was nervous when I saw the lower differential from the solid/pearl - didn't want anything too similar spec wise to the Venom Shock, although the covers are probably very different. Certainly had a great showing on TV not too long ago. The Obsession Tour looks interesting, but I've had very little luck with asymmetrics (although the Wicked Siege is one of my all time favorites). It does seem more versatile then most asymmetrics, so I'll keep it in mind also.
Interesting comment about the Idol Synergy. I haven't seen one in person, but have seen several original and pearls and thought they were both pretty controllable.
I find the Obsession Tour to be a very versatile piece but it has a bit too much torque for me to be my benchmark, don’t get me wrong, I love the ball, it’s a contender for my favorite ball right now, but it just has a bit much for the true middle reaction. The Knockout for me was fairly boomy, and may be too close to your Phaze II. If you like the shape of the Phaze II but want something weaker I’d suggest the Hero Solid.
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Strider too bad the 900G Equilibrium a San Antonio ball before 900G moved to Utah. I find that hybrid cover the perfect benchmark and slightly stronger than a Venom Shock plus handles transition better than just about any ball that I have used lately. A lot of bowlers don't know about the EQ as it was glossed over when the move was made and Storm released the 900G Utah pours.
3 great 900G balls in 2020 EQ, Afterburner, Zen. Chris Barnes says grab an Afterburner if you want one as spring/summer will bring new replacement for Afterburners.
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Surprised nobody has mentioned the IQ Tour solid. It has every quality that the OP was looking for.
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Looking for something new to add. I want something clean through the fronts and a round/smooth back end. I'd prefer something low RG and symmetrical. Medium to med/heavy sport type shots. Stronger/smoother than my Motiv Venom Shock, but less than my Storm Phase II.
What I'm most interested in
Roto Grip Idol Synergy (Seems to like straighter angles from what I've read)
900 Global Zen (Definitely smooth, not sure about overall strength)
Motiv Forge (Don't know much about it, but like Motiv and specs seem to fit)
Hey, Strider! Have you ever tried a short pin layout? They are great for medium/heavy tournament/sport shot conditions. What is great about short pin layouts is you dont have to be as specific about ball specs like RG and diff numbers because the core is already laid down. You will get a urethane like roll but with more continuation through the pins and then adjust the cover to achieve the cleanliness through the fronts you are looking for. I always recommend this layout for exactly the conditions you are speaking of. I have had balls with the surface at 4000 plus polish with this layout and the ball still did not flip at the breakpoint. No matter what surface, the reaction will be smooth. You just adjust the cover to determine the length you want.
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GB4 with a slight surface tweak to 3000 so that it isn't as strong as your P2
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After talking to some guys in the league - a strong regional player, a Storm staffer, and the house owner (a very good bowler himself) they all pretty much recommended the 900 Global Ordnance C4. They had one in stock, so I'll get it drilled up soon. Even though it wasn't recommended here or one of my original choices, people who know my game thought it would be a great fit. Thanks for the feedback anyway!
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Yeah the C4 is pretty nice. It's not something I've seen around here but did throw it for a demo day. Very much in the benchmark range... especially compared to everything else I threw that day (all stronger options). Just wasn't something that came to mind.
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Have been searching information on the Ebonite GB4 and only found 2 statements concerning flare potential for this ball. (Important?) Being a "Matte" finish has me wondering which it might be, but guessing, high? One seller states that it's a "medium" flare ball and the other seller states it's a "high" flare ball in it's natural state. :o Couldn't find said topic on ball makers website. Just wondering what the true flare for this ball is so the cover can be adjusted up/down in any future endeavor that it might have with me if I decide to go with it. Thank you much. Jim
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The flare potential of thr undrilled ball is best indicated by rhe differential. In this case the differential is .048 which is of the medium to higher part of the range. How much flare you wind up with would depend on the drilling chosen. The drilled differential can go up or down from that number and will determine overall flare potential.
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The flare potential of thr undrilled ball is best indicated by rhe differential. In this case the differential is .048 which is of the medium to higher part of the range. How much flare you wind up with would depend on the drilling chosen. The drilled differential can go up or down from that number and will determine overall flare potential.
Thank you for this. Still learning after all these years.
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Yes sir you are welcome. Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions.
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The flare potential of thr undrilled ball is best indicated by rhe differential. In this case the differential is .048 which is of the medium to higher part of the range. How much flare you wind up with would depend on the drilling chosen. The drilled differential can go up or down from that number and will determine overall flare potential.
Thank you for this. Still learning after all these years.
Jim,
Basically adding on to Chris' statement, You take the GB4 with a diff of .048. With a pin down drilling, that diff after drilling could decrease to .040 and tighten up the flare rings. But a pin up layout depending on pin to PAP distance could up it to .050 or more and then weight holes could extend that diff number in to the .070 range. The distance between the flare rings would get farther apart and the flare would essentially go complete around the entire ball. I believe Mo years ago was able to take a ball and after drilling it was able to get the diff to increase to .100 simply be pin placement and weight hole placement.
In your case, Jim. You having lower ball speed and rev rate, if you are on an oily surface, you want some built in flare because you cant use weight holes anymore to help you out. If you drilled a ball with a diff of .025 -.030, the ball would get down the lane and then not do much because the core doesnt offer you any help. You solely rely on the cover to obtain any hook potential. The only way you could use a ball with lower diff numbers is if you were bowling on a short pattern (34-36 feet) because you have that added backend. Most typical house shots are now 40 feet with some going as far as 42 to 44 feet.
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As soon as I saw this post I thought of the Obsession Tour! But....it's a quite a bit stronger than the Venom Shock!
Can't go wrong with a Zen anywhere! After all, this ball is in one with the universe!
I've seen the Ebonite GB4 thrown and to me......that thing flares a ton!
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Just punched a damn good verge. Excellent ball for heavier house shot. For me it’s the same shape as my venom shock just much stronger
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I did manage to throw the C4 Ordnance a little, but not much to report. I got it drilled the day after our sport shot league and threw it about 2 games on leftover Turnpike. The insides were pretty burnt but outside of 5 there was some oil. It was hard to gauge how clean the ball was based on the conditions, but it definitely had a rounder shape down lane than the Venom Shock, so I was happy with that.
Last night was Shark (48'). Pretty juicy to start, so I used my Phase II early. I fished around after the first transition. The VS was a little too clean/jerky - rang a few 10's on shots that looked pretty good. I was hoping the C4 might be an OK choice next - similar reaction shape to the PII but weaker. Maybe that was a bad assumption? It was definitely cleaner than the PII, but really didn't do anything to speak of at the break point. I didn't buy the C4 to open up the lane or anything, but I thought it would have handled this first transition better. If there was enough dry for the VS to hook (pretty strong) at the break point, I would have thought the C4 would have done better than it did. Anyway, I was able to keep moving left with the PII and got it to shape nicely the rest of the night. Our summer sport league is singles with a regressive point system, so I really didn't want to force the C4 just to see what it could do. Since you're bowling against the entire league, every pin counts much more than in other formats.
Next week is Dragon (45'), maybe still not prime territory for the C4, but I'll try it some regardless. I believe the current Shark is 26 mL of oil according to a video I watched with some Motiv guys (MotivLou). 2019 was 30 mL. I haven't looked up Dragon yet.
Damn Good Verge was also on my radar. If the C4 ends up a little weaker than what I'd hoped it might be a good choice. I really like what I've seen from the Zen, but it's at least as strong or maybe stronger than my PII. With my slower ball speed and slight rev dominance I rarely need anything super strong. The PII doesn't get used much as it is.
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Last night was Shark (48'). Pretty juicy to start, so I used my Phase II early. I fished around after the first transition. The VS was a little too clean/jerky - rang a few 10's on shots that looked pretty good. I was hoping the C4 might be an OK choice next - similar reaction shape to the PII but weaker. Maybe that was a bad assumption? It was definitely cleaner than the PII, but really didn't do anything to speak of at the break point. I didn't buy the C4 to open up the lane or anything, but I thought it would have handled this first transition better. If there was enough dry for the VS to hook (pretty strong) at the break point, I would have thought the C4 would have done better than it did. Anyway, I was able to keep moving left with the PII and got it to shape nicely the rest of the night.
Your original post was wanting something "stronger/smoother than the Shock, but less hook than the P2". From your experience, it sounds exactly like what you got with the C4. Smoother than the Shock is also going to be smoother than the P2.
Your comments on your experience make it sound a little more like you wanted something closer to the P2 but cleaner through the front. That's where something like the Idol Synergy or Brunswick Knock Out comes in
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It might be hard to tell right now. The C4 is definitely smoother than the VS, so that's what I wanted. I'm just not sure if it's stronger, weaker, or about the same. Hard to judge when it did next to nothing at the end of the pattern. The PII is already pretty smooth. I'm not sure I believe that the C4 should be smoother (i.e. less back end hook) than the PII. Before I finally moved deep enough with the PII during the transition if the PII was burning up, the C4 should have retained more energy and had a bit more pop on the back.
Little by little I'll get a better feel of it's strength. It's just hard when I don't want to waste frames during scoring. Not enough time during practice - barely get loose, find what/where I want to play, plus it was obvious that the C4 wasn't the ball for the fresh on a 48 foot pattern. The house used to put out the patterns on Sunday to practice on, but with Covid they've cut back on hours + services outside of league nights. I'll have to call and see if they'll have Dragon out for practice this weekend. I'd definitely like to play around with the C4 when scoring doesn't matter.