BallReviews

General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: thedjs on July 03, 2019, 04:41:14 PM

Title: New Rules Question
Post by: thedjs on July 03, 2019, 04:41:14 PM
From what I understand, as of August 1 of this year you can only clean your ball with a dry rag or towel.  In my house that's going to be a real problem because many times some black stuff (rubber or something like that) gets all over the ball after about one game.  A dry towel will not get it off.  It can affect the way the ball rolls and will even stick to your hands.  (I don't think your hands are covered by the new rule)

My question is, can a league vote to over-ride this rule and allow bowlers to clean their balls with something like alcohol when this happens.  Or do you have to get approval from the league officers each time that it occurs (which can be a real problem when you're on 30 and they are on 1.)   Any ideas would be appreciated. 
Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: Aloarjr810 on July 03, 2019, 06:43:04 PM
Yes on August 1, 2019, only a dry towel can be used to clean your bowling ball during competition.

No the league can't change that rule in the league rules.

If you have something on the ball you can't get off with the dry towel, You have to contact a league or tournament official about using a cleaning product.
Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: BowlingForDonuts on July 03, 2019, 08:57:12 PM
>No the league can't change that rule in the league rules.

Unless they go unsanctioned which I am sure at least some on the fence probably will.
Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: notclay on July 04, 2019, 03:32:31 AM

If you have something on the ball you can't get off with the dry towel, You have to contact a league or tournament official about using a cleaning product.

I think most league officers will allow you to clean gunk off the ball, but if they ever say no then make sure they can't clean theirs either. 
This is one of the dumbest moves USBC has ever made.  We are using cleaners approved by them...

Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: avabob on July 04, 2019, 12:43:28 PM
Good point notclay.  Just remember we are talking about an organization that thinks keeping bowlers in  dark about lane patterns at nationals is good for the game
  If these guys ran golf,  they wouldn't allow yardage markets at the US Open.
Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: notclay on July 04, 2019, 01:58:07 PM
Good point notclay.  Just remember we are talking about an organization that thinks keeping bowlers in  dark about lane patterns at nationals is good for the game
  If these guys ran golf,  they wouldn't allow yardage markets at the US Open.

avabob,

Thanks. I play golf and WISH I could hit the ball where I think it was going, even with exact yardages from my laser rangefinder... :D
Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: Kegler300800 on July 08, 2019, 11:03:09 AM
>> We are using cleaners approved by them...

Is everyone? Are you sure? Just because the bottle says approved anytime doesn't mean that is what is in the bottle. This is part of the reason for the rule.
Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: northface28 on July 08, 2019, 12:04:32 PM
Good point notclay.  Just remember we are talking about an organization that thinks keeping bowlers in  dark about lane patterns at nationals is good for the game
  If these guys ran golf,  they wouldn't allow yardage markets at the US Open.

This is silly. Guys cry when the pattern is released and guys cry when it is not released. No matter what, Joe Bowler is going to shoot 1500  whether he knows the pattern or not.
Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: Impending Doom on July 08, 2019, 01:05:04 PM
Good point notclay.  Just remember we are talking about an organization that thinks keeping bowlers in  dark about lane patterns at nationals is good for the game
  If these guys ran golf,  they wouldn't allow yardage markets at the US Open.

This is silly. Guys cry when the pattern is released and guys cry when it is not released. No matter what, Joe Bowler is going to shoot 1500  whether he knows the pattern or not.

You're being a bit generous, friend.
Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: thedjs on July 08, 2019, 05:19:35 PM
So today we bowled in the house I mentioned when starting this post.  After four frames the ball was covered with some type of coating and little bits of rubber.  A lot of this was in the track area.  IT WILL NOT WIPE OFF WITH A DRY CLOTH.  This was on a solid cover stock.  So midway in the second game I changed to a polished pearl.  Took about 4 frames and the ball was covered with the film and bits of rubber.  I finished out the game with this ball and by the end of the set you could almost hear the ball trying to stick to the alley.  Like I said, IT WILL NOT WIPE OFF WITH A DRY CLOTH NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU TRY.

When we got home my wife, who bowls with me, had to put both of our shirts in the washer and are just hoping this stuff will wash out. 

I plan to make a motion in out fall league meeting that we can clean the balls (when this happens) with the approval of the opposing team captain and not have to run down the league officers who might be all the way on the other end of the house.  I don't care if it's legal or not.  This rule is ridiculous and needs to be changed.  Maybe if enough of us complain, something will get done.  Or maybe they are just like the Bolmor lanes I bowl on and just don't give a rat's butt.

Sorry for the rant.
Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: northface28 on July 08, 2019, 06:27:18 PM
Good point notclay.  Just remember we are talking about an organization that thinks keeping bowlers in  dark about lane patterns at nationals is good for the game
  If these guys ran golf,  they wouldn't allow yardage markets at the US Open.

This is silly. Guys cry when the pattern is released and guys cry when it is not released. No matter what, Joe Bowler is going to shoot 1500  whether he knows the pattern or not.

You're being a bit generous, friend.

Youíre right, Iím being too generous. 1425.
Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: Juggernaut on July 08, 2019, 06:48:27 PM
 This rule is stupid, but not how you think it is.

 Its stupid because there isnt any cleaner known to man that you can simply wipe onto a ball to clean it with that will make that big a difference.

 Now, you can soak it in something for a prolonged period, or wipe something onto the surface of the ball that doesnt come back off and changes the ball that way, but just wiping it with a liquid that evaporates, or one that is wiped back off the ball, isnt going to substantially change the reaction of the ball in just the few seconds it takes to clean it.

USBC, grow some brains, please?
Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: Pat Patterson on July 08, 2019, 08:42:43 PM
I suggest that for the bowlers who bowl in centers that are like this, on the first night of fall league form a line with the designated league officials waiting on a decision to clean it or allowing you to do it.   I bet after a couple of weeks they won't care anymore.  And hopefully the centers that allow their lanes and equipment to still allow this garbage to get on bowlers equipment might actually step up and clean their centers
Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: leftybowler70 on July 08, 2019, 09:24:28 PM
I suggest that for the bowlers who bowl in centers that are like this, on the first night of fall league form a line with the designated league officials waiting on a decision to clean it or allowing you to do it.   I bet after a couple of weeks they won't care anymore.  And hopefully the centers that allow their lanes and equipment to still allow this garbage to get on bowlers equipment might actually step up and clean their centers

👆🏻👆🏻
Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: tommygn on July 09, 2019, 09:11:11 AM
So today we bowled in the house I mentioned when starting this post.  After four frames the ball was covered with some type of coating and little bits of rubber.  A lot of this was in the track area.  IT WILL NOT WIPE OFF WITH A DRY CLOTH.  This was on a solid cover stock.  So midway in the second game I changed to a polished pearl.  Took about 4 frames and the ball was covered with the film and bits of rubber.  I finished out the game with this ball and by the end of the set you could almost hear the ball trying to stick to the alley.  Like I said, IT WILL NOT WIPE OFF WITH A DRY CLOTH NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU TRY.

When we got home my wife, who bowls with me, had to put both of our shirts in the washer and are just hoping this stuff will wash out. 

I plan to make a motion in out fall league meeting that we can clean the balls (when this happens) with the approval of the opposing team captain and not have to run down the league officers who might be all the way on the other end of the house.  I don't care if it's legal or not.  This rule is ridiculous and needs to be changed.  Maybe if enough of us complain, something will get done.  Or maybe they are just like the Bolmor lanes I bowl on and just don't give a rat's butt.

Sorry for the rant.


Chapter 8, 4-B of the 2018-2019 rule book (page 88) states that no foreign material may be placed on the outer surface of the ball. you have a foreign material on the surface of your ball that could also then get on the lane and have adverse affects to other bowlers as well.

So by this rule, the foreign substance on your ball deems it illegal. Yet the new rule deems it illegal to remove the substance, because a dry towel doesn't always get those belt markings off. Hence the STUPIDITY and contradiction of the rule.



http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/rulebook/2018-2019Rulebook.pdf
Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: Bowler19525 on July 10, 2019, 10:26:52 AM
This dry towel rule is nothing compared to the recent suspension of the three-unit rule and centers no longer needing to submit annual lane dressing inspection reports.
Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: tommygn on July 10, 2019, 02:09:24 PM
This dry towel rule is nothing compared to the recent suspension of the three-unit rule and centers no longer needing to submit annual lane dressing inspection reports.

I agree, but there are ALOT of centers that are below 3 units on the gutter even with the rule in place, but jack the pump pressure up for when they get checked, and miraculously are at 3 units. That, or they push a different button when being checked.
Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: avabob on July 10, 2019, 04:51:17 PM
Shot is easier for most of us with 3 units rather than with less.  Rule wasn't accomplishing anything anyway.  Also, ratios dont mean anything with todays high volumes.  When you are putting 4 or more loads out 2 to 2, you get an out of bounds regardlees of the ratio.  Easier to blow a hole in the pattern outside, but that is about it.
Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: Bowler19525 on July 11, 2019, 12:44:06 PM
USBC essentially claims that today's equipment causes huge variations in lane conditions [which is true to some extent], so they throw up their hands and suspend the 3 unit rule.

How long before they simply bring equipment totally out of the equation, and basically say "Bowling balls used in USBC sanctioned competition may only have a polyester or non-reactive urethane coverstock, with a before drilled RG of 2.55-2.60, and differential of .001-.020.  Surface roughness must be at 3000 abralon or equivalent when new, and no surface alterations may ever be done outside of normal wear and tear from lane use."
Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: avabob on July 11, 2019, 01:00:47 PM
Actually I would like to play in that environment assuming oil volumes would be scaled back.  I averaged 215 with polyester in the 70s. Not expecting it would ever happen,  but you could put out various patterns at different lengths that would have to be played the way the pattern was designed. Not just blown up with sponge balls. 
Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: northface28 on July 11, 2019, 05:28:32 PM
Actually I would like to play in that environment assuming oil volumes would be scaled back.  I averaged 215 with polyester in the 70s. Not expecting it would ever happen,  but you could put out various patterns at different lengths that would have to be played the way the pattern was designed. Not just blown up with sponge balls. 

Let it go, youre like the Al Bundy of bowling, reliving your glory days.
Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: avabob on July 11, 2019, 09:51:31 PM
Actually I had most of my success during the high scoring resin era but I do plead guilty to being over the hill.  I would love to go back and bowl on lacquer with rubber and plastic balls, knowing what I know now
Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: tritonj on July 12, 2019, 07:59:27 PM
i think people seem to be concerned with the wrong thing here, a case of not seeing the forest for the trees.  in this extreme case of a ball being covered in gunk, why are we concerned about a ball cleaner rule, shouldn't the outrage be directed at the fact that the bowling center is in such disrepair that it happens in the first place?  and it really isn't like ball cleaner can get all the marks out anyways, there are plenty of marks i've seen that would need acetone to get out.
Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: BowlingForDonuts on July 13, 2019, 12:26:46 AM
shouldn't the outrage be directed at the fact that the bowling center is in such disrepair that it happens in the first place? 

Yeah with how incredibly lucrative the USBC has made bowling I mean this should never happen.  Pretty sad when Bowlero can put up pots the USBC and PBA could only dream about still only a tiny fraction of what golf puts up weekly.
Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: Bowler19525 on July 13, 2019, 11:02:52 AM
Every bowling center I have ever bowled in had returns that either damaged my bowling balls or returned them with grease or waxy residue.  It is just a byproduct of heavy objects being handled by a machine with gears, belts, and pullies.

The USBC has simply decided that the current equipment is the "problem" and is focusing their attention on it.  Dry towels only, no balance holes, coverstock absorption rate limits, blah blah blah.  The balls are blowing up patterns, so why bother strictly enforcing patterns now?

Bowlers are then forced to self govern and enforce the rules amongst each other.  "Hey you can't use a wet towel!". "Hey, your ball can't have that extra hole!" "Hey no thumb bowler, you can't have a ball with a thumbhole and not put your thumb in it!" "Hey no thumb bowler where is the mark showing center of grip on your ball?". "Hey you didn't have all of your fingers in your gripping holes when you picked up that spare!"

Typical response from bowlers? "I will do what I want...mind your own &$#@ business!"

It's just getting to be a bit much and encouraging the proliferation of unsanctioned leagues.
Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: Jesse James on July 13, 2019, 03:31:00 PM
Every bowling center I have ever bowled in had returns that either damaged my bowling balls or returned them with grease or waxy residue.  It is just a byproduct of heavy objects being handled by a machine with gears, belts, and pullies.

The USBC has simply decided that the current equipment is the "problem" and is focusing their attention on it.  Dry towels only, no balance holes, coverstock absorption rate limits, blah blah blah.  The balls are blowing up patterns, so why bother strictly enforcing patterns now?

Bowlers are then forced to self govern and enforce the rules amongst each other.  "Hey you can't use a wet towel!". "Hey, your ball can't have that extra hole!" "Hey no thumb bowler, you can't have a ball with a thumbhole and not put your thumb in it!" "Hey no thumb bowler where is the mark showing center of grip on your ball?". "Hey you didn't have all of your fingers in your gripping holes when you picked up that spare!"

Typical response from bowlers? "I will do what I want...mind your own &$#@ business!"

It's just getting to be a bit much and encouraging the proliferation of unsanctioned leagues.

Yup! You are correct! And the unsanctioned leagues are definitely on their way!

At least in my neck of the woods!
Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: BowlingForDonuts on July 13, 2019, 03:44:46 PM
Every bowling center I have ever bowled in had returns that either damaged my bowling balls or returned them with grease or waxy residue.  It is just a byproduct of heavy objects being handled by a machine with gears, belts, and pullies.

The USBC has simply decided that the current equipment is the "problem" and is focusing their attention on it.  Dry towels only, no balance holes, coverstock absorption rate limits, blah blah blah.  The balls are blowing up patterns, so why bother strictly enforcing patterns now?

Bowlers are then forced to self govern and enforce the rules amongst each other.  "Hey you can't use a wet towel!". "Hey, your ball can't have that extra hole!" "Hey no thumb bowler, you can't have a ball with a thumbhole and not put your thumb in it!" "Hey no thumb bowler where is the mark showing center of grip on your ball?". "Hey you didn't have all of your fingers in your gripping holes when you picked up that spare!"

Typical response from bowlers? "I will do what I want...mind your own &$#@ business!"

It's just getting to be a bit much and encouraging the proliferation of unsanctioned leagues.

Yup! You are correct! And the unsanctioned leagues are definitely on their way!

At least in my neck of the woods!

Cheaper too.  If you are bowling league just for fun bit of a no brainer.
Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: MI 2 AZ on July 13, 2019, 05:33:15 PM
Every bowling center I have ever bowled in had returns that either damaged my bowling balls or returned them with grease or waxy residue.  It is just a byproduct of heavy objects being handled by a machine with gears, belts, and pullies.

The USBC has simply decided that the current equipment is the "problem" and is focusing their attention on it.  Dry towels only, no balance holes, coverstock absorption rate limits, blah blah blah.  The balls are blowing up patterns, so why bother strictly enforcing patterns now?

Bowlers are then forced to self govern and enforce the rules amongst each other.  "Hey you can't use a wet towel!". "Hey, your ball can't have that extra hole!" "Hey no thumb bowler, you can't have a ball with a thumbhole and not put your thumb in it!" "Hey no thumb bowler where is the mark showing center of grip on your ball?". "Hey you didn't have all of your fingers in your gripping holes when you picked up that spare!"

Typical response from bowlers? "I will do what I want...mind your own &$#@ business!"

It's just getting to be a bit much and encouraging the proliferation of unsanctioned leagues.

Yup! You are correct! And the unsanctioned leagues are definitely on their way!

At least in my neck of the woods!

Cheaper too.  If you are bowling league just for fun bit of a no brainer.

Where I bowl, the biggest bite out of our league fees (over a 30 week season) is lineage, followed by prize fund, then secretary fee, and lastly USBC sanction fee.

Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: tritonj on July 16, 2019, 05:19:16 PM
correct me if i'm wrong but isn't going unsanctioned a bad idea simply because the prize fund is no longer protected?  doesn't USBC protect the prize fund?  i don't really see the rules changes as a problem what i see a a bigger problem is the lack of communication at the local levels.
Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: Aloarjr810 on July 16, 2019, 06:06:45 PM
correct me if i'm wrong but isn't going unsanctioned a bad idea simply because the prize fund is no longer protected?  doesn't USBC protect the prize fund?  i don't really see the rules changes as a problem what i see a a bigger problem is the lack of communication at the local levels.

Yes the USBC does offer bonding and if you go uncertified you lose that bonding and what few awards the usbc gives out.

If the league wants bonding then the sec/trea would need to get bonded (which they most likely won't) or use in house banking if it offers protection. Though you got to watch out if the house closes the league could lose it's money (its happened theres a old thread telling about it.)

The thing about going uncertified is the leagues wind up still using the USBC rules anyway, at most just maybe making one or two minor rule changes.

Plus a big part (if not all) of the players still get their USBC cards anyway because they bowl in other leagues/tournaments that are certified and their equipment will still meet USBC rules to be able to be used in those.

So going uncertified doesn't really do much, just save you the price of one meal at a restaurant and let you be able to say hey we're sticking it to the USBC. While you lose the free bonding and awards.

.

Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: BowlingForDonuts on July 16, 2019, 06:23:02 PM
Unsanctioned leagues tend not to have a prize fund from what I have seen.  Its how Bowlero can afford a $11 a week league with 2 free open games in addition.  Agree not ideal if in it for bowling the sport.  Cheap just for fun leagues have their place (mainly to get me sub $2 games rest of the time).
Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: Bowler19525 on July 17, 2019, 11:54:19 AM
All of the unsanctioned leagues at my center have the same prize fund they would have even if they were sanctioned.  Only difference being the league voted not to sanction for one reason or another.  The center acts as the secretary and the treasurer which makes it a little more secure in terms of the prize fund being safe.

I wouldn't necessarily mind bowling unsanctioned, except I prefer to maintain a sanctioned average for tournaments.  There is also the "wild west" feeling that comes with bowling unsanctioned.  Sure there are the USBC rules to use as a basic guideline, but then at the end of the day they don't apply and people do whatever they want.  Kind of sketchy. 
Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: Jesse James on July 17, 2019, 12:29:02 PM
As Bowling for Donuts pointed out, going unsanctioned is cheaper! No USBC sanction fee and use of the house as secretary/treasurer makes things a whole lot more manageable!

The bonding issue has not come into play so far, and as long as the house still has customers, I don't believe it will!
Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: MI 2 AZ on July 17, 2019, 06:39:29 PM
Wow, it's true - bowlers are cheap.
Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: BowlingForDonuts on July 17, 2019, 10:30:14 PM
Wow, it's true - bowlers are cheap.

If bowling a just for fun league might as well go cheap.
Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: tritonj on July 18, 2019, 02:49:39 PM


The bonding issue has not come into play so far, and as long as the house still has customers, I don't believe it will!

well it's like insurance right? it is there "in case $hit happens"  you are covered.  and i would agree it is like the wild west because ultimately there is no recognized and agree upon authority to settle disputes as a neutral/independent party. 

like others said in fun beer leagues sure unsanctioned is perfect.  but a competitive league that decides to go unsanctioned to be anti establishment and the rebels is just asking for issues to pop up.  sure they may have come up yet but it is an open invitation.  it amounts to cutting off your nose to spite your face. 
Title: Re: New Rules Question
Post by: JessN16 on August 09, 2019, 07:58:47 PM
This dry towel rule is nothing compared to the recent suspension of the three-unit rule and centers no longer needing to submit annual lane dressing inspection reports.

I've inspected bowling centers for the USBC before. Got flat-out told by proprietors at several of them that they would not allow us in the building or to pull lane tapes unannounced. They required us to make appointments to come in to do the inspection. To no one's surprise, the entire lane was flooded with oil for 40 feet, all the machines had weight-compliant pins in them, etc. Our tape machine sometimes couldn't get a readout because there was too much oil.

And then you'd go back in to bowl the following week and it was back to a blocked-up shot or just generally dry all the way across.

Big part of why I walked away from any kind of volunteer leadership position is the whole system is broken and not enough people care enough to band together to fix it.

Jess