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Author Topic: Why tougher conditions in leagues  (Read 3338 times)

Gazoo

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Why tougher conditions in leagues
« on: May 12, 2006, 01:26:50 AM »
Why should league bowling be difficult? There is a constant call to make conditions tough for league bowlers and I was wondering why. The THS is tough enough for the majority of league bowler since I believe the median average is about 170. I can understand making tournament conditions extremely tough to seperate the skilled from the average but not handicap leagues. Is this argument really about integrity or a gripe that better bowlers don't have a venue to compete against each other.

 

DANGERZONE

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Re: Why tougher conditions in leagues
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2006, 06:51:27 PM »
Hello all, something like this happened this year in a mixed league at my center.The president of the league along with one of the lane center employees changed the shot to make it a little....not alot but a little challenging. The ones who were complaining....you guessed it the 200+ bowlers. You would think that they would welcome the challenge but all it did was start alot of drama. Now the funny thing is that the same bowlers that were complaining, earlier this season were complaining that THS was tooo easy.

cnimsk

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Re: Why tougher conditions in leagues
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2006, 07:27:03 PM »
I think there are a number factors involved today in league conditions seemingly being tougher then in the past.

1. Your average straight bowler really doesn't care or even notice what the lane conditions are. Urethane up the middle to the head pin is going to be the same regardless. So, lane conditions really only effect bowlers who throw hooks. Those are the same bowlers who usually bowl 170 and above. Today's equipment is much better then it was 5 years ago, and especially 25 years ago. In some ways it's easier to bowl now then ever before due to the excellence of the bowling balls being used. They hit harder, carry better, are more forgiving in some ways, then ever before. So...to compensate...I think many places are making the lanes a bit harder just to keep things "fair".

2. Harder lanes makes it easier to sell new equipment. Whether this is a conscious decision or just an accident, bowling ball makers and their sellers want to sell more "stuff". Different lane conditions, variable lane conditions, promote new sales. For me..this has been the year of multiple purchases of new bowling balls to try and keep my average up vs. constantly changing lane conditions. I just can't keep my average in the 180's and just use one bowling ball anymore plus maybe a spare ball. You now "need" heavy oil balls, medium oil balls, medium to dry lane balls, etc. I think there are several reasons for this. For one, look at the cost of gasoline these days. Oil prices are up. Manufacturing costs are up. Some lanes are reacting by not oiling the lanes as much or as often as they used to. Secondly, bowling balls today soak up oil on the lanes as never before changing conditions from game to game for then ever.

3. I think there is a conscious "decision" to make the game tougher because of the excellence of the new equipment on the market today. It's a lot easier to raise your average into the 180's today then it has been in the past. You have great bowling balls, wrist braces that make it easier to throw the ball correctly, things like this. And that's great. It's a lot harder to move your average after you get past 200. For a 180 bowler, an extra strike here, a made spare there and your average can raise 10 pins rapidly. But for a 200 bowler you need strikes period. So, as lane conditions change nightly, it's the 200 plus bowlers who might feel the pinch the most in some ways, and hence complain about the lanes. The 180's people also feel it, and also complain because they don't have a shot anymore on a given night and don't know how to adjust properly or quickly enough, or have enough different shots to be able to handle the conditions. I'm in this category. On the other hand, I'm being forced to improve my knowledge and ability in order to compete, which is not a bad thing necessarily.

4. Competition is greater today, it would seem, then ever before, in all areas of our lives. We work harder, longer hours, under great pressure. I think that carries over to our leisure sports. We want to succeed, to improve, and to not have to work as hard for that. On the other we complain if it's too easy. We complain if it's too hard. We complain period. And we have outlets like this site to complain upon and hear other peoples stories from a thousand miles away.  I know on my home house's lanes, we have been complaining all year about too little oil on the lanes, or too much, or most of all, not maintaining the lanes enough to make a consistent shot. I think that the days of being able to use one ball, on one shot, all night is over for all the reasons I've listed above. It's not as easy anymore to find, get into, and stay, in a groove.

And I still love the sport. It's tough were I bowl but that's okay too. In the end it will make me a better bowler. And besides, I'm with my friends and it's a great time to bowl, talk, laugh and just have fun. And in the end that's what it's all about.

Chuck :-)


TWOHAND834

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Re: Why tougher conditions in leagues
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2006, 01:33:09 PM »
pin-nut,

I understand what you say about there are only 2 things that will happen when shots get tougher.  Practice or quit.  However, the latter will probably reign supreme here.  More bowlers are already so spoiled by their inflated averages, that if they cant score like that on a regular basis, they will quit or go somewhere else where the shot is easier.  We have several centers in the Atlanta, GA area that have very little league participation simply because the shot is tougher.  When I worked at a particular Brunswick center here, I tried to floor a competitive league which was something missing from that center in a long time.  About 90% of the people I spoke to, averaging 200+, said there was no way they were going to bowl on a shot like that laid down in that center.  The shot was only 32-34 feet.  With the promotion of higher performance bowling balls, there was no way anybody wanted to bowl on such a short pattern.  Tougher shots for league play are only going to lead to the decline of bowling that much more, sad to say.
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TDC57

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Re: Why tougher conditions in leagues
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2006, 02:44:41 PM »
I've been bowling for 34 years and can say I think I've seen it all. Let me tell you it is the higher average guys who run their mouths the most. They complain if the shots too easy and bowlers other than them are doing well. Then there's things like this year at our lanes, the shot changed dramatically from the previous 4 years and most averages were down 15-20 pins. The loudest criers were the high average guys. YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!!! I used to say don't have the shot be too easy, now I believe in letting the guys score. What difference does it make. The good bowlers will still do well anywhere they go and the guys that get some help from the conditions know they do and realize if they bowl in tournaments they won't do as well. I say to all who cry about shots being to easy: "SHUT UP AND BOWL". Why are you afraid to let others have some fun. Those guys have no aspirations to become pros and they know full well the lanes help them. And to the clown above who threw wrist braces into the mix of things helping scoring, stick it in your ear. I wear one and see many others who do, bowl well on one night and crappy on another. Did the wrist brace help on the crappy night. God you're an idiot!!!

Edited on 5/13/2006 2:51 PM

Saw Mill

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Re: Why tougher conditions in leagues
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2006, 10:10:48 AM »
Boy, if Pchee2 were around he would say to quit crying about low average and tougher shots.  I believe that even the low average (120-165/170) will still stay with in their range whether the shot is tougher or not; your biggest whiners will be those who average 220 (because of the wall), whose average drops below the 200 level.  There are bowlers that stand in the same spot and throw the same line, in any house and then complain as to why they can't stand where they always do.  

In my house, you do not get much choice, except move left and heave it right, or the shot gets really squirrely.  I want tougher so that when I get to a tourney, where you only have one or 2 shots to fix the problem or you are toast, I will have more experience with what changes I need to make.

As for the golf analogy, Bones i usually agree with you, but I am NOT a very accomplished golfer, however I love the game, and try to get better.  I welcome the tough courses, as it lets me know where I really stand, and what to work on.  When I play a course that is above my skills, I do not count how terrible the score is, but rather I count the shots that I make that are great (as well as being mindful of of my errors).  I then go back on an easier course to work on them, and if I fix them, then my score on that easy course is higher.  I bowl and play golf because I love the game itself, NOT because I can shoot high scores (or in golf low), albeit I do like when I score well.

Dave
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monstercrank

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Re: Why tougher conditions in leagues
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2006, 10:52:30 AM »
I didint read all the other posts, but I think they should make it harder, for 2 reasons, 1. those skilled bowlers you speak of would dissipear, for the sole reason of you dont have to be that good to average on a ths, there is no drive to get better if you can average 210 with medeocer skills(not that they arent good). 2. honor scores, guys that average 160+- a few should NOT be shooting them, it used to be a rarety and only the elete could hit profection... now 7 year olds are getting them and kids of high seres of like low 600's too. when you can hit a 10 board area for a strike something needs to be changed.
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janderson

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Re: Why tougher conditions in leagues
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2006, 11:21:22 PM »
quote:
but evidently bowlers(even the better ones) do not enjoy that as a steady diet or the sport condition concept would have been more successful.


That's only half of the story, however.  There is much work the house is forced to do (building the shot, pulling tape, testing the shot, pulling tape, maintaining the shot, pulling tape, keeping tape, sending in tape, re-testing the shot, pulling tape...) to get and keep a league sport-compliant.  Many proprietors just don't see it as worth the effort because the bowlers don't make the proprietors see it as worth the effort.

quote:
Why should league bowling be difficult?


An ex-teammate of mine who taught me much about the sport of bowling calls today's prevalent easy house conditions "The Gus Factor".  Meet Gus, your typical league bowler.  He works hard all day and looks forward to bowling with his buddies one or two nights per week.  He wants to drink his beer, yuk it up with his buddies, and throw good games most of the time.  The "Gus Factor" house wall allows him to make all kinds of mistakes and still score well. He doesn't want a challenge and won't pay for a challenge.  It's the recreational dollar he's spending and it's his (and the vast majority of bowlers like him) recreational dollar that keeps the bowler centers open.  The easy conditions ensure Gus feels good about his bowling (and thus, ensures Gus feels good about Gus!) and will come back next year for more.

So what's wrong with that?

Nothing.  The bowling community needs Gus.  I like Gus.  Anyone who enjoys bowling in any form is a good egg in my book.

However, those bowlers interested in maintaining the integrity of the sport of bowling are seeing something they don't like.  This something is a general lack of understanding of the difference between the recreational side of bowling and the sport of bowling.  I believe the vast majority of the bowling population does not understand the difference, especially when I hear bowling center managers tell me in all seriousness, "Those guys on TV aren't that good.  We have several regular league bowlers that could beat them most of the time."  You see Gus has never bowled on anything but easy house conditions and doesn't want to bowl on anything but easy house conditions.  What rankles the sport bowlers is that most of the time Gus doesn't even know there is life outside of the house shot.

Some of it is frustration.  The sport bowlers are no longer recognized as the elite.  The house conditions can, score-wise, make Gus look better than "those guys on TV".  The gap between Gus and Earl Anthony (score-wise) sometimes disappears.  As such, the elite just want Gus to experience something resembling a "fair" shot then understand and acknowledge that there is a difference between recreational bowling and sport bowling.  Some are bitter about it because they don't feel they get the respect they deserve as the better bowler.  Some may be rightfully bitter because, at times, Gus likes to really talk trash about how good Gus is.

Three years ago, I was Gus, but thought I was Earl Anthony.  Inwardly I fumed over my ex-teammate telling me I was delusional.  The truth can really hurt.  Since then I've experienced and come to understand and appreciate the difference between recreational bowling and the sport of bowling, but I honestly feel I'm an exception, not the rule.

God bless you Gus, you keep the bowling centers open and I love you for it.  You're my brother in bowling, Gus.  But Gus?  You just don't know what you don't know.  Hey Gus, how about bowling nationals with me next year?

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Edited on 5/14/2006 11:24 PM

janderson

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Re: Why tougher conditions in leagues
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2006, 01:48:00 PM »
quote:
The thing people don't understand is that many people of average ability will score a lot higher on a consistent flatter pattern ( if such a thing exists ) than they will on a wall that is in constant transition.


Like the ABC/USBC nationals pattern?  Bob, I've grown to respect you over the last couple of years via these boards, but I disagree with you on this one.

All patterns transition after enough games, and some after only a few.  Transition rate is more of a factor of conditioner volume and how the lanes are being played than a factor of the starting ratios.  People throwing charcoal nuggets on patterns with light volume are going to see quick dramatic transition whether the pattern is a wide-open THS, a completely flat pattern, or even an inverted pattern.

Your observation of the THS allowing bowlers to stay in their comfort zones is brilliant and truer than most bowlers will ever know.  Speaking generally, the bowlers in the 195-210 average range in your area must be better than the same bowlers here because here (again, speaking generally) they certainly do spray shots all over the lane and take advantage of the forgiveness afforded them.  When an over-under develops as the THS breaks down, they are, as you've noticed, lost, but that's because the forgiveness has been replaced by the over-under.  Plus, they generally make speed and release mistakes of which they're not even aware.  The same bowlers visit nationals and average in the 150-180 range because:

1. They're largely taken out of their comfort zone (thanks Bob!)
2. The pattern (roughly 2-to-1) doesn't provide much forgiveness for missing one's target at the breakpoint (aka "spraying")
3. The pattern doesn't provide much forgiveness for other errors such as speed and release mistakes
4. (big one) They don't have as much forgiveness in the pattern to help with spares
5. The pattern transitions in an unfamiliar way

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michelle

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Re: Why tougher conditions in leagues
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2006, 02:08:11 PM »
If you gave those same bowlers a chance to throw more than a ball on each lane before the lights came on and also gave those same bowlers a chance to bowl on it for even 8 weeks, you would see most perform better than they do at Nationals.  

It cannot be stressed enough...it takes time to make the adjustment to anything different.  It isn't a switch that one flips after just a few practice throws...

Speedburner89

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Re: Why tougher conditions in leagues
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2006, 05:19:53 PM »
the soul purpose of a ths is to help younger bowlers learn the game and improve until they have a handle on the basic principles/skills of the game, and yes, i do consider a 200 average bowler to still be learning basic principles of the game.

the sport shot is for those who have learned the basic skills and want to polish up their game, especially their spare game, because no matter how many strikes you have in a set, it's pretty hard to average 230 without making all your spares.
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janderson

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Re: Why tougher conditions in leagues
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2006, 05:41:14 PM »
I agree with both points that 1) if bowlers are given enough time to learn to play a certain condition, they'll score better on it and 2) when lanes transition quickly, everyone has a good chance of getting left behind.  That doesn't mean that all patterns are equally "scorable" for all bowlers.  Even the big boys do better on some patterns than others.

As Bob said, to certain players who have tuned their games on tighter patterns, the nationals pattern would feel quite forgiving.  That's a great answer to the originally posted question as well.

quote:
Why should league bowling be difficult?


Good discussion, gang
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janderson

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Re: Why tougher conditions in leagues
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2006, 05:44:49 PM »
quote:
It cannot be stressed enough...it takes time to make the adjustment to anything different. It isn't a switch that one flips after just a few practice throws...


And even then, it takes more time to learn the correct adjustment and we're assuming that the bowler can discern the correct adjustment and is willing to make the correct adjustment which may very well be out of that bowler's comfort zone.

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J.J. "Waterola Kid" Anderson, the bLowling King  : Kill the back row