Post by: Jorge300 on June 18, 2008, 11:10:22 PM
Our summer league is bowling on Sport patterns to help challenge us bowlers. What I have been told is that during the league meeting (which I missed because I was at the USBC Open) they discussed open bowling before league on the sport patterns. Ideally the answer would be there should be none (this is another arguement), but they decided sort of off the cuff that people should ONLY bowl on their starting pair. To me this is exactly opposite of what any league has ever done. The idea is that they don't want to screw up the shot on someone else's pair. My feeling is that this is giving one team an unfair advantage. One or more of one team has bowled on the pair, manipulated the shot, and understand how the breakdown has started. If you bowl on another pair, yes you may screw up their shot, but both teams bowling on that pair are starting at the same spot, both having no prior knowledge of that pair. I am wrong in my thinking or is my league just as crazy as I think it is?
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Jorge300
Post by: srichmo2 on June 19, 2008, 07:20:46 AM
Post by: dizzyfugu on June 19, 2008, 07:29:20 AM
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Post by: n00dlejester on June 19, 2008, 07:36:57 AM
On the tougher shots, such as yours, this seems messed up to say the least.
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Post by: Gunny on June 19, 2008, 07:39:13 AM
but practicing on only your starting pair is kinda dumb. because than you can go in and burn up a track for yourself hence giving you the advantage. doesnt make any sense if you ask me.
Post by: Jorge300 on June 19, 2008, 07:58:06 AM
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Jorge300
Post by: Robadat on June 19, 2008, 08:03:33 AM
They are allowing bowlers to maniplate the lanes. It is taking away all the principles for the sport patterns.Sport Bowling - FAQ (http://"http://www.bowl.com/sportbowling/faq.aspx#requirements")
quote:
What are the lane pattern requirements for a Sport Bowling leagues/tournaments?
Due to the multitude of lane machines, lane oils, and lane surfaces, specific criteria was developed for Sport Bowling leagues and tournaments to follow to ensure that the pattern they develop is within the specifications listed below:
It is critical to the integrity of the Sport Bowling program that the lane conditions present at the start of certified competition, comply with Sport Bowling lane dressing specifications. In addition, when using PBA Experience patterns, they should be representative of the specific PBA Experience pattern being used. Therefore, once lanes are conditioned for a Sport Bowling league or tournament, there shall be no bowling prior to the start of the competition, except for a reasonable amount of practice balls authorized by the competition, not to exceed 30 minutes.
Prior to Sport Bowling league/tournament competition (including USBC PBA Experience), the following must be done:
Each lane shall be stripped prior to oiling of the Sport condition.
Tapes will be taken at 22 feet and two feet before the end of the pattern.
The ratio of oil for all tapes taken shall be no more than 3:1
The ratio shall be defined as the average amount of oil (in units) between boards Left 18 to Right 18 divided by the average amount of oil (in units) between boards R3-R7 & L3-L7, respectively.
The amount of oil measured on the outside boards (average of R/L3-7) at 22 feet must be greater than 10 units, and the amount of oil measured on the center boards (average of L18 to R18) must not exceed 80 units of oil.
The maximum amount of oil from boards R8 to R17 and L8 to L17 shall not be greater than 130 percent of the average of boards L18 to R18.
The minimum amount of oil from boards R8 to R17 shall not be less than 70 percent of the average of boards R3 to R7.
The minimum amount of oil from boards L8 to L17 shall not be less than 70 percent of the average of boards L3 to L7.
There is no pattern length minimum or maximum.
There is no lengthwise ratio requirement.
All other USBC requirements are still in effect (i.e. three-unit minimu
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Post by: Jorge300 on June 19, 2008, 08:22:44 AM
Two things:
1) We are not a true certified sports league, just putting out tougher patterns, sport patterns, for the competition.
2) Where did you find that, bowl.com? I might bring that along just to show them.
Thanks.
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Jorge300
Post by: JMORRIS on June 19, 2008, 08:33:42 AM
It's a nice option, if the center has an open lane/pair.
Jermey
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Post by: Phoneman on June 19, 2008, 08:40:09 AM
Post by: Robadat on June 19, 2008, 08:48:23 AM
quote:I provided the link above.
Bob,
Two things:
1) We are not a true certified sports league, just putting out tougher patterns, sport patterns, for the competition.
2) Where did you find that, bowl.com? I might bring that along just to show them.
Thanks.
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Jorge300
But, I'll repost it.
http://www.bowl.com/sportbowling/faq.aspx#requirements
If they're claiming to be bowling on the tougher sport patterns, they should be adhering to all the rules and guidelines for sport patterns.
If they want true competition, they shouldn't be allowing any "prepping" of the lanes prior to starting time.
Just my .02
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Sarcasm Disclaimer:
"This post may contain sarcasm, things that look like sarcasm, and things that might be mistaken as sarcasm. My sarcasm is self-made at my environmentally friendly laboratory and no human or animal was harmed to create the sarcasm found within this post."
Unless, you were harmed. In the extremely rare case were that to happen, Tough Nouggies!!!
Disclaimer provided by Jorge, Thanks.
Post by: ThongPrincess on June 19, 2008, 08:56:43 AM
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Post by: ccrider on June 19, 2008, 10:50:46 AM
Personally, I do not see an advantage as long as you are not allowed to practice on the lane that you compete on. Both teams are bowling on the same condition and you are only competing with that team for the points that night.
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Post by: alloutsmith3 on June 19, 2008, 12:02:28 PM
quote:
^^^^^ Same at our house. Works fine.
Personally, I do not see an advantage as long as you are not allowed to practice on the lane that you compete on. Both teams are bowling on the same condition and you are only competing with that team for the points that night.
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Those that can do. Those that can't complain.
My saying for the day: "You can take the ho out of the hood, but you can't take the ho out of the ho."
But what about the teams that are bowling on that pair. You can hurt someone just as much as help them, so it could be that someone could very well be at an advantage/disadvantage. Patterns can be blown to crap just as well as opened up and it's my opinion that there should be zero bowling on any pair that is going to be used in competition.
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Jason Smith
VISE--The Choice of Champions
Post by: ccrider on June 19, 2008, 12:11:57 PM
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Those that can do. Those that can't complain.
My saying for the day: "You can take the ho out of the hood, but you can't take the ho out of the ho."
Post by: Debina on June 19, 2008, 12:24:57 PM
Just a thought.
Deb
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Post by: Goof1073 on June 19, 2008, 01:17:29 PM
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Post by: Jorge300 on June 19, 2008, 01:54:13 PM
Also I understand what you are saying Jason, but given the option of burning up a pair that two different teams are going to have to bowl on...both starting from the same level and both dealing with the aftermath equally versus bowling on a pair where one team or member(s) of a team burned them up and know exactly how they did it and how much more they are hooking when compared to fresh and the other team is coming in blind I'd take option one.
Ideally no one should bowl at all, but I don't think I can win that arguement this year. We are not a certified league and they don't want to be a certified league, but they want a chance to bowl on some tougher patterns and the house is willing to put them out, but want to do as little work as possible.
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Jorge300
Post by: Easy10pins on June 19, 2008, 02:19:05 PM
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Post by: alloutsmith3 on June 19, 2008, 04:48:16 PM
quote:
^^^^^^ The lanes are the same for both teams, fresh or burnt. Some likem fresh, some likem broke in.
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Those that can do. Those that can't complain.
My saying for the day: "You can take the ho out of the hood, but you can't take the ho out of the ho."
Yes, both teams have to bowl on the same shot, but that can work to the advantage of one of the teams. Example: If I know team A and B are going to be bowling on my "practice" pair and I know team A likes to play outside and up the boards and struggles if having to move in and team B likes to play in and swing it a little, whos to stop me from throwing an 80 grit particle in the area team A likes to play burning it to hell and forcing them in. Now what I have done is take team A out of there game and gave team B a little more area to bank the ball off of. Is this ethical, I say no, but in the race for a championship it could and will happen.
Jorge I understand what your saying also. If given the option of having to choose between the 2, I would definately say that they shouldn't be bowling on the pair that they are going to be bowling on in league. Either way it sucks that this is allowed to happen. My house doesn't allow anyone to bowl after the lanes have been dressed for league whether it is sport/pba or house shot. Good luck with getting this changed, I hope it works out the way you would like it to.
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Jason Smith
VISE--The Choice of Champions
Post by: mrbowlingnut on June 19, 2008, 05:09:28 PM
I would just sit from the restaurant eating dinner and laugh, it played perfect for me but it would annoy me on a sport pattern.
Post by: rexb300 on June 19, 2008, 05:09:59 PM
and there is the late bowler in summertime
instead on most normal 10 minutes of practice in regular league.
Post by: MI 2 AZ on June 19, 2008, 06:16:46 PM
quote:
but they decided sort of off the cuff that people should ONLY bowl on their starting pair. ... My feeling is that this is giving one team an unfair advantage
As long as everyone is allowed to bowl on their starting pair, there should be no problem. I mean, if your opponents get that pair, you should be allowed to join them in practising on that pair so that it is not limited to only one team practising on them. That way no one has the unfair advantage.
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Post by: Jay on June 19, 2008, 06:49:54 PM
Post by: dicnic on June 19, 2008, 08:41:06 PM
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Post by: MI 2 AZ on June 20, 2008, 12:01:39 AM
quote:
Well, I'll be ...... I never, in my many years of bowling, running leagues, tournaments etc. did I ever hear of allowing bowling on the league/tournament lanes before hand by ANYBODY!
Back in the early '80's there used to be a big money league at Classic Lanes near Rochester, MI that had open bowling before the big money league. You went in and if you were the first there, you got a lane and anyone else in the league could join in to bowl with you on that lane (or pair). Just pay for the frames you threw.
That seems to have been a common practise back then before they started to put out a fresh oil pattern for leagues. When did we get spoiled?
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Post by: Krakken on June 20, 2008, 08:48:21 AM
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Post by: Jorge300 on June 25, 2008, 11:09:22 AM
Let me try and clear a few things up:
1) We are not a certified league in anyway. The center is nice enough to put out the tougher shots for the summer league. But it seems to have found something as I said we have 30 teams this year.
2) We do not have any additional lanes available. We use 1-30, the other league use 31-44.
3) While no open bowling before is preferred, that solution will not pass a vote in this league, guaranteed.
My grips is saying that a person(s) must bowl on their starting pair. It gives that person(s) an unfair advantage over their direct competition. I agree that bowling on anothers pair coudl make those lanes become unplayable, but the two teams in direct competition will have to deal with the equally. To me it is 2 team bowling equal even if it is on an unplayable conditon versus one team gaining an advantage over their direct competitors.
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Jorge300
Post by: Mike Austin on June 25, 2008, 01:22:32 PM
Not everyone can get there early enough to practice on their own lanes, get lined up, grooved in, etc. There are some good bowlers in this league. A few Regional Champions, Houston Hall of Famers, Pete McCordic, etc... A number of these guys will KNOW how to burn a hole in the pattern to open it up. The pattern is not Sport, probably a variation on PBA. The owner of the bowl's daughter is married to the guy that does the lanes for the SW PBA. Cary can program their machine or his, he owns 2-3 himself, to put out just about anything imaginable.
Big Man!! They should just change the rule to not allowed to practice on your lanes for the evening and be done with it!! Miss all you guys down there. That is a good league. Smack Everett on the head for me and tell him to shoot me an email!!
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Post by: Jorge300 on June 25, 2008, 03:55:28 PM
quote:
The house Jorge is bowling in is in a more affluent area. Lots of open play at probably $4 a game. The league probably starts a little later, like 7 or 7:30. They don't want to lose all the revenue by having the lanes sit unused.
Not everyone can get there early enough to practice on their own lanes, get lined up, grooved in, etc. There are some good bowlers in this league. A few Regional Champions, Houston Hall of Famers, Pete McCordic, etc... A number of these guys will KNOW how to burn a hole in the pattern to open it up. The pattern is not Sport, probably a variation on PBA. The owner of the bowl's daughter is married to the guy that does the lanes for the SW PBA. Cary can program their machine or his, he owns 2-3 himself, to put out just about anything imaginable.
Big Man!! They should just change the rule to not allowed to practice on your lanes for the evening and be done with it!! Miss all you guys down there. That is a good league. Smack Everett on the head for me and tell him to shoot me an email!!
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Mr. Austin, you are sorely missed as well. Everett has declined to participate this summer, not sure why, but when we start the fall, if I don't see him before, I will honor yoru request.
Mike is spot on, we start about 8:00. I don't see if there are any "regular" open bowlers, but I am sure there are before I arrive. Mostly it's the players, who honestly (I think) just want to get better and get more practice on the tougher shot, but we have a few very good bowlers, as Mike said, that know how to burn in a shot. Now for the little money we get back is it worth it, not really, but there are brackets and we get quite a few each week that could sway the bar to try this. I think this year they went closer to Sport then PBA, 3 patterns, different lengths. We are on the 43 foot pattern right now, but a little less volume then say Shark. NExt we get a 37 foot pattern, with a higher volume of oil, last is a 39 foot pattern with a volume in between the first two. Obviously the 43 footer isn't exaclty suited to my game, but I am second behind Pete in average so far so I can't complain.
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Jorge300