BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Bowler19525 on June 23, 2022, 04:46:25 PM
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Bowlero and the PBA announced today that they are forming essentially a competing league and tournament association to counter the USBC:
https://www.pba.com/2022/june/professional-bowlers-association-launch-league-bowler-certification-program
According to JR Raymond, this is a free association for all Bowlero league bowlers starting this fall.
Raises a few immediate questions.
1) Since all Bowlero league bowlers will be included, and the PBA/Bowlero association has their own rules, will USBC sanctioning no longer be a thing at Bowlero centers? Opens the door for conflicting rules if both will still apply.
2) as this rolls out to other centers, what will be the fee for non-Bowlero bowlers?
3) Will tournaments start acknowledging the Bowlero association average as a sanctioned average for those bowlers who may have a Bowlero association average and not a USBC average?
There is a lot of potential here, but seems like there are still a lot of unknowns...
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USBC posted as well pushing " the future of the sport " pretty hard. Im excited to see where this goes
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I've already heard some rants on this with people saying that this is "the end of the USBC", "The USBC is done", "the USBC is over!", etc., as if this will take over everything that the USBC is doing and will be a better version of it.. I agree that this has promise, but we should all hold fire. Here's why.
- All sports, especially if wanting to be Olympic sports, have to be run by a governing body. In the case of the US, the world body would be the WTBA (World Tenpin Bowling Association), followed by the governing body for each particular country. In our case in the US, it is the USBC. The USBC will still handle leagues, national tournaments, Collegiates, etc. that is not going to go away. That said, there is a defined line between corporate sponsorship of a governing body, and corporate OWNERSHIP of a governing body. Corporations can sponsor bowlers like they sponsor NBA teams, for example. But they can not own what would be the governing body of a sport for an entire country. That is why the USBC will not be going anywhere.
- The corporate oversight on this is going to be huge, and may not work for some places. Right now, a lot of this looks to be geared towards adults, who are the biggest soapbox for the complaints about the USBC. That's fine, but what are they going to do about youth bowling? nothing mentioned so far as to how they would handle awards for them, no mention of how any scholarship money will be handled, if awarded, or anything of that type. If this is going to be going live for the 2022 season, none of this is in place, and they would have a little under 2 months to get that going. Because of that, the USBC won't be going anywhere.
- Again, this shows promise, but a lot is lacking for this to signal "the end of the USBC", and I haven't even brought the PWBA in on this, especially since the USBC handles all of the older ABC, YABA, and WIBC tournaments. This program effectively leaves out the women's tour (which is run by the USBC), and all youth bowling. Because of that, the USBC isn't going anywhere.
- How will Bowlero handle USBC sanctioning this fall? If this is going live this coming fall season, what will happen if this new association will have rules that conflict with the USBC? The league couldn't do both and remain certified for either, especially if those rules regarding use of certain bowling balls are conflicting.
I'll go even further on this and mention what would happen if the only alleys in a given town are Bowlero alleys? If they go with this new association, then the bowlers in that Bowlero certified league would not have USBC certified averages to use in USBC tournaments, such as Nationals, state, regionals, city tournaments, etc. That contributes more to the confusion than solves anything.
Again, shows a lot of promise, but a lot is lacking that I don't think will be ready for the fall. More than that, this is all just more shade thrown at the USBC, which the PBA has bigger issues to deal with.
BL.
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Just when the LIV talk was calming down on the golf forums, now my bowling forums are going to be debating competing sanctions too? I'm already exhausted lol.
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Olympic bowling is an illusion.
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Bowlero and PBA? Isn't that redundant?
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I've already heard some rants on this with people saying that this is "the end of the USBC", "The USBC is done", "the USBC is over!", etc., as if this will take over everything that the USBC is doing and will be a better version of it.. I agree that this has promise, but we should all hold fire. Here's why.
- All sports, especially if wanting to be Olympic sports, have to be run by a governing body. In the case of the US, the world body would be the WTBA (World Tenpin Bowling Association), followed by the governing body for each particular country. In our case in the US, it is the USBC. The USBC will still handle leagues, national tournaments, Collegiates, etc. that is not going to go away. That said, there is a defined line between corporate sponsorship of a governing body, and corporate OWNERSHIP of a governing body. Corporations can sponsor bowlers like they sponsor NBA teams, for example. But they can not own what would be the governing body of a sport for an entire country. That is why the USBC will not be going anywhere.
- The corporate oversight on this is going to be huge, and may not work for some places. Right now, a lot of this looks to be geared towards adults, who are the biggest soapbox for the complaints about the USBC. That's fine, but what are they going to do about youth bowling? nothing mentioned so far as to how they would handle awards for them, no mention of how any scholarship money will be handled, if awarded, or anything of that type. If this is going to be going live for the 2022 season, none of this is in place, and they would have a little under 2 months to get that going. Because of that, the USBC won't be going anywhere.
- Again, this shows promise, but a lot is lacking for this to signal "the end of the USBC", and I haven't even brought the PWBA in on this, especially since the USBC handles all of the older ABC, YABA, and WIBC tournaments. This program effectively leaves out the women's tour (which is run by the USBC), and all youth bowling. Because of that, the USBC isn't going anywhere.
- How will Bowlero handle USBC sanctioning this fall? If this is going live this coming fall season, what will happen if this new association will have rules that conflict with the USBC? The league couldn't do both and remain certified for either, especially if those rules regarding use of certain bowling balls are conflicting.
I'll go even further on this and mention what would happen if the only alleys in a given town are Bowlero alleys? If they go with this new association, then the bowlers in that Bowlero certified league would not have USBC certified averages to use in USBC tournaments, such as Nationals, state, regionals, city tournaments, etc. That contributes more to the confusion than solves anything.
Again, shows a lot of promise, but a lot is lacking that I don't think will be ready for the fall. More than that, this is all just more shade thrown at the USBC, which the PBA has bigger issues to deal with.
BL.
While I think this is all much ado about nothing, none of it shows promise.
Our governing body needs to step it and act the part. A governing body should be independant, above approach and protect the sports integrity. At this over the last 45 years they have been an epic failure.
Its time to get back in and check centers for specifications, tighten up the THS. Something they lacked the vision to do the second epoxy base coat hit. Every pattern ruling lead to a further failure and increased infated scoring in the 80s and its never been easier today.
Sport needs another Bill Taylor.
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Does that mean that balls banned by USBC will be back in play?
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After reading the FAQ for the PBA/Bowlero league association and discussing this with other bowlers, we have the following takeaways:
1) All Bowlero league bowlers are included in this starting Fall 2022. No additional charge. What, if any, impact will this have on lineage.
2) Bonding is included in this program, which is a plus for all leagues that were previously not USBC sanctioned. HOWEVER, this new association has "new rules" and equipment specifications that previously non-sanctioned leagues may not have had to worry about. This will mostly affect senior leagues and the ultra casual "fun" leagues. People in those leagues may have to get used to following more structured rules again.
3) Bowlero leagues can choose to be USBC certified, or PBA League Experience certified but they cannot be both. It is one or the other. The FAQ specifically states that leagues can review the PBA League Bowler Certification program to determine what they want to do. This may cause issues with bowlers who bowl in USBC competitions at other houses, but rely on Bowlero centers for their USBC averages. No USBC sanctioning, no USBC average and those bowlers would be forced to enter USBC handicap tournaments with no average. This could make for some contentious league meetings this fall when leagues decide what they want to do. Will some bowlers threaten to walk away if a league chooses the PBA over USBC? Possibly.
4) The PBA League Bowler certified leagues will have a wide variety of lane patterns to choose from. This is interesting, although most leagues will probably want the easiest pattern. More competitive leagues may opt for a more challenging pattern.
5) We are guessing the equipment specifications will be much more relaxed than what the USBC has currently. Could we see a waiver for balance holes for one-handed bowlers and thumb holes for 2-handed/no thumb bowlers? No longer needing to use all holes during delivery? The use of ball cleaners during competition? Perhaps even changing surface during competition (perhaps between games...similar to what the PBA players do?) No more compliance with the USBC approved ball list?
6) We are guessing the new rules and equipment specifications will allow for the use of string pins in PBA League Bowler certified leagues. Bowlero wants string pins, and what better way to pave the way for them then to make them legal in your own association.
It makes sense that leagues can be either USBC or PBA, but not both. This new association is a direct competitor to the USBC. Will it take off? It certainly has potential. It will be interesting to see the USBC's reaction. I would imagine they will be quick to respond and at the very least make a statement that they will not recognize averages from other associations for use in USBC competitions.
Personally, it works for me. I do all of my bowling at a Bowlero, and rarely bowl in USBC sanctioned competitions at other houses. I bowl with other people that bowl at numerous houses. It would not really impact them either if our Bpwlero league chose to go the PBA League route as they would be covered for USBC sanctioning at the other houses.
I am really anxious to see the guidelines, new rules and equipment specifications to see what they have come up with. That will be the ultimate determination as to how much potential this association really has. I am guessing they will be very attractive to encourage as much participation as possible. The last thing Bowlero wants is to introduce a new association that no one will want to join even if it is free [for Bowlero bowlers]. They also will want to make sure it works out well so they can attract paying members in the future.
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Olympic bowling is an illusion.
For now it may be, but that doesn't eliminate the need for the governing body, which the USBC is. But let's roll a bit further down this alley (all puns unintended).
We still have PABCON, World Cup, and all of the international tournaments to deal with that would require Team USA or Junior Team USA. Having a corporation decide the members that go there could be subject to bias, especially if a lesser competitor is selected over one that could give those teams an ample shot at winning, just because that lesser competitor is in this PBA certified association while the more competitive bowler isn't, through no fault of his own (no alley certified for them near where they live).
I can see where because the corporation runs their own certification, that if they became the organization that decides those participants while the USBC is still in existence, they'd pick from their own pool over what is best for the team. That would be a problem.
Does that mean that balls banned by USBC will be back in play?
That's part of the problem. If they allow them back, and a house is certified for both this association and the USBC, it will be up to the league to decide on which association they use. But that also leads back to my earlier issue of what the alley does for certification if the PBA association's rules and the USBC's rules come in to conflict. One would hav to give for the other, and that could mean a completely different set of heartburn for the league bowler.
While I think this is all much ado about nothing, none of it shows promise.
Our governing body needs to step it and act the part. A governing body should be independant, above approach and protect the sports integrity. At this over the last 45 years they have been an epic failure.
Its time to get back in and check centers for specifications, tighten up the THS. Something they lacked the vision to do the second epoxy base coat hit. Every pattern ruling lead to a further failure and increased infated scoring in the 80s and its never been easier today.
Sport needs another Bill Taylor.
I agree in principle with what you're saying, but over the past 45 years, we didn't have a single governing body. ABC held sway for the men, the WIBC for the women, and the YABA for youth. We didn't have a single issue in the YABA, and I don't recall hearing of any issues for the WIBC, especially with the fact that they outlasted the ABC. I believe it was only because of consolidation that the WIBC and YABA folded into the USBC.
Yes, we need the governing body to act like it, and be everything it needs to be. We don't seem to see these types of problems up in Canada or Japan or S. Korea, or over in Europe, but we're having a problem here, and the PBA resulting in parting shots across the bow like we're in a bad episode of "Yo Momma" isn't helping things on either side.
Does the USBC need to step up? Absolutely. On paper, the PBA's idea does show some promise, with regards to what the USBC should be doing that the PBA is proposing to do. I think this is going to get a bit nastier before it gets better, so I'm hoping we see some semblance of maturity from both entities before the bowling community gets turned off of bowling completely.
BL.
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Another thing.. is anyone catching the irony here that the company who owns these alleys has spent years and hundreds of thousands (or millions) of dollars to go the entire party/recreational bowling route and all but eliminate leagues, and the league bowler experience is now trying to create a league association to lure back who they willfully and all but forcibly pushed away?
I mean, going to opening at 4pm at some alleys, no youth leagues, pushing out pro shops, the entire lot.. and now they want them back? Are they missing something important, like, oh... I don't know.. REVENUE?
Or is it just me...
BL.
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My thoughts on this ...
1) I'll start with the easiest topic: Olympics. I became an ABC league member in 1990 and Olympic bowling was being talked about then. It's now 2022. While pursuing Olympic status is admirable, the USBC's first responsibility is to take care of its donor members. That's what we all are; the USBC is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit and we are donors. We've been strung along by the IOC for at least the 32 years I've held a card, so I want the USBC to take care of more immediate concerns. Yes, Bowlero getting involved here complicates this greatly, especially if/when the USBC folds. But the Olympics are not in my personal top 10 concerns for bowling at the moment.
2) I've talked with a couple of people today directly, one of which is mentioned in one of the many articles/blog posts/videos. The USBC has about 800,000 members now, if that. In 2006, the number was more than 2 million. If you push that curve out, we're within 10 years maximum of seeing sanctioning dip below the 500k mark. From the people in the industry I've talked to, that's about the number where Bowlero and other recreation-first centers just quit listening to league bowlers, because we won't represent enough of the business anymore. Hence why I've been banging the drum for years that the USBC needed to have a growth strategy in adult leagues, and it really doesn't. It sees itself as an advocate for current card-carriers, not as a way to attract new bowlers. It has historically expected the BPAA to do that but they're both under the same roof now -- and Bowlero isn't a BPAA member anymore. I don't have to say "do the math" but I will anyway.
3) Bowlero is a publicly traded company, meaning its directors have a fiduciary, legal duty to act in the best interest of its investors. This is the point that makes me the most optimistic. Today's announcement obviously didn't just get thrown together over a weekend at the local lake. Someone at Bowlero has made the call that investing in league bowling is going to be a priority. And if they're going to go that route, they can't half-a** it and be in compliance with shareholder regs. This announcement is the gauntlet being thrown down at USBC's feet. So let's take a look at that ...
4) The current USBC leadership is ill-equipped for this kind of fight. It's just not that savvy at the very top. There is reason to think that if the Storm fiasco doesn't happen at the Masters, we're not even talking about this today. Essentially, for-profit companies have been regulated by a non-profit players' "union" for decades and meddling in the Motiv Jackal Carnage deal, certainly the Storm deal and maybe even the Purple Hammer thing, without clarity or openness, probably had a lot to do with the for-profit groups finally saying "no more." Someone has already noted that Bowlero is going to be getting into the ball certification process -- they hired a really talented guy (and former USBC tech guy at that) to oversee that and paid him to jump from a job he just took earlier this year. I think that speaks clearly to what's up here.
5) Jeff Richgels has an article on 11thFrame right now quoting Tom Clark, and openness and clarity comes up multiple times. Clark never comes right out and says "we're coming for you, USBC" but he quotes several specific issues that have been raised with the Open Championships format. Again, the gauntlet is down.
6) USBC can't keep up with Bowlero if this gets to be a money fight. And we don't yet know which side Storm, B7, Motiv, etc., to say nothing of lane bed manufacturers and the like, are going to support -- but I know which one I'd bet the money on. If Bowlero breaks off a third to half of the Open Championships player base, and about the same percentage of weekly league bowlers, all Bowlero has to do then is wait until the USBC pulls back. The primary goal of any nonprofit is self-survival in a period of changing mission. But if Bowlero plays its cards right, it will box the USBC in. The USBC is not the most cash-fluid entity in the world as is and has debts in Arlington.
7) Finally, I liken this whole thing to the CART-IRL split in open-wheel racing in the mid-90s. It took about a decade for it all to sort out, but it finally got there. The sport probably isn't big enough for both entities to survive. To answer the question of revenue from league bowler support services (pro shops, etc.) and youth bowling is that today's announcement reads like a sea change inside the Bowlero company. The USBC was never going to survive long-term on its current course; the only question was how long was it going to take to completely lose the limited relevance it has left. I choose to be optimistic that Bowlero -- at least at this point -- seems to have developed a coherent business plan to move heavy into the league business. The USBC will either have to step up its game significantly, or it will perish. I'd like to think league bowlers have a brighter future as the result of this competition for our dollars and time.
Jess
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Another thing.. is anyone catching the irony here that the company who owns these alleys has spent years and hundreds of thousands (or millions) of dollars to go the entire party/recreational bowling route and all but eliminate leagues, and the league bowler experience is now trying to create a league association to lure back who they willfully and all but forcibly pushed away?
I mean, going to opening at 4pm at some alleys, no youth leagues, pushing out pro shops, the entire lot.. and now they want them back? Are they missing something important, like, oh... I don't know.. REVENUE?
Or is it just me...
BL.
Exactly Brandl.
The company that did this and thinks building Bowlero Scottsdale with 56 foot lane beds and have "social clubs" was a good idea as opposed to adding 4 more feet and another "real center" to the ever declining lane beds across the country. We had 9k centers in 1980 and what? 3800 hundred now?.
Its so complictaded...
Call it the USBC but it just a rebranded ABC. When I shot my youth AJBC honor scores it was the ABC there the next day to check my center for compliance. Not YABA, Not the WIBC. It was the governing body set up by our sports founding fathers way back to bring equipment standardization to the game. For this I am protective of them. And this is so important and to have a non profit to act above approach.
Now comes along Bowlero whom wants to not be under a 90-100 year old governing body? That does not want to pay dues for USBC lane certification and pull 350 centers out and that contribution that helps support the fianancial health of an organization that overall has done a tremendous job for so so many decades. Its not just about the games rules, its about center and equipment certification above all and further developement of these thing. Its about not ending up bowling on string pinsetters and maintaing lane bed specifications. Its about not have high flat gutters and rounded edge boards so every scout flies out and every 7 -10 split is converted at the minimum.
Do we really want to loose 350 centers of sanctioned USBC leagues members not buying USBC cards? When we had 9 million ABC, AJBC, WIBC members as card holders in 1980 and now what a tick over 1 million? How many will we have to support the USBC when this debacle starts?
In the history of the sport the has the PBA had financial trouble? But we trust Bowlero to be above that?
In the history of the sport have Corporations that owned centers came and gone? But Bowlero is above this? Bowlero can do what Brunswick or AMF the oldest names in this sport could not or would not have considered doing?
Peeps really need to think threw before supporting an corporation that has been the biggest scourge ever to this game. A for profit that sure is motivated by that and only that and it seems to come at a time when USBC begins new physical center certifcations beginning in 2023.Go figure.
The PBA is a glorified tournament director and their events need to stay on USBC physical sactioned houses.
The BPAA needs to get back to their old ways as trade organization acting supported by every house to promote the sport.
The USBC needs to get back in and bring 75% of centers that cant pass certification up to par.
Bowlero needs to go away like most corpoations do eventually, they are not a Ford motor company. The remaining 3k centers need to get together and shot this red head ba$tard $tep child down before real damage is down. They have shown no signs of being able to convert a recreational player into any form of league player. Their managers last week worked at arby's and staff too. Their mechanics can't fix a leaking gear box, change a bad auto scorer keyboard, put end to ball and pin damage by properly maintaing ball and pin transfer systems, this would cost money.
That said, not in anyway attached to any of it.
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Based on data from Bowlers Journal International, there are 5,000 bowling centers in the US. That means Bowlero currently owns less than 10% of the bowling centers in the United States. This new association has a long way to go before it really takes hold.
Bowlero left the BPAA at the end of 2021. That was one of the first major signals that they intended to go their own way. Bowlero is a corporation and is going to run their centers the way they want. They don't need the support or backing of the BPAA.
Bowlero's press release about the new association indicates that they have 180,000 league bowlers across all of their centers. Not all of those bowlers were USBC members as there are numerous Bowlero leagues that are non-sanctioned. Especially senior leagues, no-tap leagues, and other just-for-fun social leagues (food & drink leagues, etc.) This announcement is also Bowlero finally acknowledging the importance of these bowlers as weekly, repeat customers. It also only affects maybe 10% of the USBC's current sanctioned members. Again, not a lot initially.
Bowlero obviously sees the USBC as another roadblock to them in terms of running their centers as they wish. They most likely do not want to deal with the upcoming USBC lane certification program. They probably are tired of their league bowlers complaining about USBC rules and sanctioning. They most likely don't want to deal with the administrative hassles of submitting league data to the USBC (our Bowlero acts as the secretary for all leagues and has an employee dedicated to all associated activities.)
Their own association allows them to do it all themselves without any other organizations trying to dictate to them how they should be running their business. Their own rules, their own systems, their own business practices, their own employees.
For bowlers that want USBC involvement, they can seek that out. Most Bowlero customers will not care, will see the Bowlero/PBA association as a free perk, and will eventually pull away from the USBC. It will be a harder sell for non-Bowlero centers and will probably take years to take hold (if it ever does.)
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I keep hearing the word "free" in relation to leagues of Bowlero centers. Nothing is free, in fact, if Bowlero didn't have a scheme in place to make money from this, it would not even be a consideration.
I suspect the cost to be a Bowlero/PBA association member will be much higher than the USBC membership. But you won't see it as it will be a "per game" cost instead of just buying a annual membership.
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The whole point of this is to get String Pinsetters approved for league and tournament bowling. That's the only real beef that Bowlero has with the USBC. If the USBC approves String Pinsetters, this probably goes away.
In any event, all Bowlero center will have String Pinsetters in 5 to 10 years due to lower cost of maintenance. One way or the other, Bowlero is going to get it's way on String Pinsetters.
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I keep hearing the word "free" in relation to leagues of Bowlero centers. Nothing is free, in fact, if Bowlero didn't have a scheme in place to make money from this, it would not even be a consideration.
I suspect the cost to be a Bowlero/PBA association member will be much higher than the USBC membership. But you won't see it as it will be a "per game" cost instead of just buying a annual membership.
It will simply be built in to the lineage...which is reportedly going up 60 cents per week this fall in our Bowlero. That is $19.20 for a 32 week season, which is on par with the USBC annual dues.
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I keep hearing the word "free" in relation to leagues of Bowlero centers. Nothing is free, in fact, if Bowlero didn't have a scheme in place to make money from this, it would not even be a consideration.
I suspect the cost to be a Bowlero/PBA association member will be much higher than the USBC membership. But you won't see it as it will be a "per game" cost instead of just buying a annual membership.
It will simply be built in to the lineage...which is reportedly going up 60 cents per week this fall in our Bowlero. That is $19.20 for a 32 week season, which is on par with the USBC annual dues.
If you only bowl one league, then perhaps. But you will be paying for the "free" membership in each league you bowl.
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So, if you bowl multiple leagues in Bowlero there is a never ending fee being paid through you lineage. In addition, if you are a periodic tournament bowler you will need to establish a USBC average to compete. One of the problems with the diminishing number of bowlers is cost, this will only add to the problem.
I seen something on one of the blog sites that mentioned, do away with money leagues and just bowl for cost of lineage. For those that need the action, you can always run side pots, brackets, high games, pins over and anything else that comes to mind.
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So, if you bowl multiple leagues in Bowlero there is a never ending fee being paid through you lineage. In addition, if you are a periodic tournament bowler you will need to establish a USBC average to compete. One of the problems with the diminishing number of bowlers is cost, this will only add to the problem.
I seen something on one of the blog sites that mentioned, do away with money leagues and just bowl for cost of lineage. For those that need the action, you can always run side pots, brackets, high games, pins over and anything else that comes to mind.
Every bowling center recovers expenses via lineage. If you bowl multiple leagues in a non-Bowlero you are paying lineage in each league. No difference.
Leagues with no prize fund are fine, but people want to feel like they are bowling for something even if it just a meager payout. Asking them to participate in side pots, brackets, card games, or whatever else will only appeal to a small subset of bowlers.
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So, if you bowl multiple leagues in Bowlero there is a never ending fee being paid through you lineage. In addition, if you are a periodic tournament bowler you will need to establish a USBC average to compete. One of the problems with the diminishing number of bowlers is cost, this will only add to the problem.
I seen something on one of the blog sites that mentioned, do away with money leagues and just bowl for cost of lineage. For those that need the action, you can always run side pots, brackets, high games, pins over and anything else that comes to mind.
Let's take this to its furthest tangent. This will still mean that every PBA bowler would still have to establish a USBC average - at a BPAA-certified alley - to be eligible to bowl in 2 of the Triple Crown tournaments/half of bowling's Grand Slam. It really wouldn't matter to them because they are already spending the money on PBA membership, so another membership wouldn't really matter, but as the Masters and the US Open are USBC events, any bowler in the Bowlero certification program would have to do the same if they want to enter those tournaments, which adds more cost onto those bowlers. In essence, while putting this certification into play, for all tournaments (Youth, city, state, regional, Nationals, Masters, US Open, etc.), Bowlero is effectively giving away those bowlers, and for some, causing those bowlers to incur double the cost.
BL.
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So, if you bowl multiple leagues in Bowlero there is a never ending fee being paid through you lineage. In addition, if you are a periodic tournament bowler you will need to establish a USBC average to compete. One of the problems with the diminishing number of bowlers is cost, this will only add to the problem.
I seen something on one of the blog sites that mentioned, do away with money leagues and just bowl for cost of lineage. For those that need the action, you can always run side pots, brackets, high games, pins over and anything else that comes to mind.
Every bowling center recovers expenses via lineage. If you bowl multiple leagues in a non-Bowlero you are paying lineage in each league. No difference.
Leagues with no prize fund are fine, but people want to feel like they are bowling for something even if it just a meager payout. Asking them to participate in side pots, brackets, card games, or whatever else will only appeal to a small subset of bowlers.
There is a BIG difference. If $.60 is built into the linage of league fees to pay for the Bowlero/PBA membership, then you are paying it for every league you bowl. For all of USBC warts, you only pay for your membership once, not for each league.
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Exactly Brandl.
The company that did this and thinks building Bowlero Scottsdale with 56 foot lane beds and have "social clubs" was a good idea as opposed to adding 4 more feet and another "real center" to the ever declining lane beds across the country. We had 9k centers in 1980 and what? 3800 hundred now?.
Its so complictaded...
Call it the USBC but it just a rebranded ABC. When I shot my youth AJBC honor scores it was the ABC there the next day to check my center for compliance. Not YABA, Not the WIBC. It was the governing body set up by our sports founding fathers way back to bring equipment standardization to the game. For this I am protective of them. And this is so important and to have a non profit to act above approach.
Now comes along Bowlero whom wants to not be under a 90-100 year old governing body? That does not want to pay dues for USBC lane certification and pull 350 centers out and that contribution that helps support the fianancial health of an organization that overall has done a tremendous job for so so many decades. Its not just about the games rules, its about center and equipment certification above all and further developement of these thing. Its about not ending up bowling on string pinsetters and maintaing lane bed specifications. Its about not have high flat gutters and rounded edge boards so every scout flies out and every 7 -10 split is converted at the minimum.
Do we really want to loose 350 centers of sanctioned USBC leagues members not buying USBC cards? When we had 9 million ABC, AJBC, WIBC members as card holders in 1980 and now what a tick over 1 million? How many will we have to support the USBC when this debacle starts?
In the history of the sport the has the PBA had financial trouble? But we trust Bowlero to be above that?
In the history of the sport have Corporations that owned centers came and gone? But Bowlero is above this? Bowlero can do what Brunswick or AMF the oldest names in this sport could not or would not have considered doing?
Peeps really need to think threw before supporting an corporation that has been the biggest scourge ever to this game. A for profit that sure is motivated by that and only that and it seems to come at a time when USBC begins new physical center certifcations beginning in 2023.Go figure.
The PBA is a glorified tournament director and their events need to stay on USBC physical sactioned houses.
The BPAA needs to get back to their old ways as trade organization acting supported by every house to promote the sport.
The USBC needs to get back in and bring 75% of centers that cant pass certification up to par.
Bowlero needs to go away like most corpoations do eventually, they are not a Ford motor company. The remaining 3k centers need to get together and shot this red head ba$tard $tep child down before real damage is down. They have shown no signs of being able to convert a recreational player into any form of league player. Their managers last week worked at arby's and staff too. Their mechanics can't fix a leaking gear box, change a bad auto scorer keyboard, put end to ball and pin damage by properly maintaing ball and pin transfer systems, this would cost money.
That said, not in anyway attached to any of it.
Here's the thing, though -- a lot of those things are gone and are not coming back no matter who is running things.
I was an association president for 2 years just prior to the ABC-WIBC merger. It was a small association, yes. Still, in all the times I ever inspected lanes or ran tapes, I had one person to volunteer to help me one time. Every other time I did it myself.
I don't know if anyone here has ever laid under machines to inspect them or check pindeck tolerances or whatnot, but it's work. I bowl in a center now that only got a visit from the local association when scores got so low that they sent a guy over to make sure we weren't putting down a sport shot or otherwise sandbagging as an entire house. And they still didn't run tapes during their "investigation."
Another house I've bowled in recently in hasn't had a full-blown inspection in five years.
The PBA isn't going to go back to what it was, not as long as Bowlero owns it. The BPAA is sort of a mystery. It's technically in bed with the USBC as is, which could theoretically mean it's being a good advocate for its clientele (the centers). However, such a cozy relationship may be the reason some centers aren't inspected anymore. Which is better?
Point being, this is all a question of time, money and to a lesser extent volunteerism, and the world is different now than it was in the USBC's (ABC's) heyday. In regards to Bowlero, the optimist's position here is that Bowlero has finally realized that today's league business leads to a lot of tomorrow business, and they're going to spend the money necessary to court it. The other issue is that the USBC has bad leadership at the moment, IMO. Like ... really, really bad.
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So, if you bowl multiple leagues in Bowlero there is a never ending fee being paid through you lineage. In addition, if you are a periodic tournament bowler you will need to establish a USBC average to compete. One of the problems with the diminishing number of bowlers is cost, this will only add to the problem.
I seen something on one of the blog sites that mentioned, do away with money leagues and just bowl for cost of lineage. For those that need the action, you can always run side pots, brackets, high games, pins over and anything else that comes to mind.
Every bowling center recovers expenses via lineage. If you bowl multiple leagues in a non-Bowlero you are paying lineage in each league. No difference.
Leagues with no prize fund are fine, but people want to feel like they are bowling for something even if it just a meager payout. Asking them to participate in side pots, brackets, card games, or whatever else will only appeal to a small subset of bowlers.
There is a BIG difference. If $.60 is built into the linage of league fees to pay for the Bowlero/PBA membership, then you are paying it for every league you bowl. For all of USBC warts, you only pay for your membership once, not for each league.
[/quotSo, if you bowl multiple leagues in Bowlero there is a never ending fee being paid through you lineage. In addition, if you are a periodic tournament bowler you will need to establish a USBC average to compete. One of the problems with the diminishing number of bowlers is cost, this will only add to the problem.
I seen something on one of the blog sites that mentioned, do away with money leagues and just bowl for cost of lineage. For those that need the action, you can always run side pots, brackets, high games, pins over and anything else that comes to mind.
Every bowling center recovers expenses via lineage. If you bowl multiple leagues in a non-Bowlero you are paying lineage in each league. No difference.
Leagues with no prize fund are fine, but people want to feel like they are bowling for something even if it just a meager payout. Asking them to participate in side pots, brackets, card games, or whatever else will only appeal to a small subset of bowlers.
There is a BIG difference. If $.60 is built into the linage of league fees to pay for the Bowlero/PBA membership, then you are paying it for every league you bowl. For all of USBC warts, you only pay for your membership once, not for each league.
The USBC has local associations. If you sub in a house that's part of a different association, you have to pay the association fee. Around here there are three overlapping local associations. Bowlers pay $18 to sanction in one association, then sub in another and pay $4 to that association, then bowl in the third and pay another $4.
If I am concerned about an extra 60 cents lineage and potentially paying it two or three times a week, I shouldn't be bowling at all. At least I'm not paying multiple association fees to local associations that do nothing for me.
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So, if you bowl multiple leagues in Bowlero there is a never ending fee being paid through you lineage. In addition, if you are a periodic tournament bowler you will need to establish a USBC average to compete. One of the problems with the diminishing number of bowlers is cost, this will only add to the problem.
I seen something on one of the blog sites that mentioned, do away with money leagues and just bowl for cost of lineage. For those that need the action, you can always run side pots, brackets, high games, pins over and anything else that comes to mind.
Every bowling center recovers expenses via lineage. If you bowl multiple leagues in a non-Bowlero you are paying lineage in each league. No difference.
Leagues with no prize fund are fine, but people want to feel like they are bowling for something even if it just a meager payout. Asking them to participate in side pots, brackets, card games, or whatever else will only appeal to a small subset of bowlers.
There is a BIG difference. If $.60 is built into the linage of league fees to pay for the Bowlero/PBA membership, then you are paying it for every league you bowl. For all of USBC warts, you only pay for your membership once, not for each league.
[/quotSo, if you bowl multiple leagues in Bowlero there is a never ending fee being paid through you lineage. In addition, if you are a periodic tournament bowler you will need to establish a USBC average to compete. One of the problems with the diminishing number of bowlers is cost, this will only add to the problem.
I seen something on one of the blog sites that mentioned, do away with money leagues and just bowl for cost of lineage. For those that need the action, you can always run side pots, brackets, high games, pins over and anything else that comes to mind.
Every bowling center recovers expenses via lineage. If you bowl multiple leagues in a non-Bowlero you are paying lineage in each league. No difference.
Leagues with no prize fund are fine, but people want to feel like they are bowling for something even if it just a meager payout. Asking them to participate in side pots, brackets, card games, or whatever else will only appeal to a small subset of bowlers.
There is a BIG difference. If $.60 is built into the linage of league fees to pay for the Bowlero/PBA membership, then you are paying it for every league you bowl. For all of USBC warts, you only pay for your membership once, not for each league.
The USBC has local associations. If you sub in a house that's part of a different association, you have to pay the association fee. Around here there are three overlapping local associations. Bowlers pay $18 to sanction in one association, then sub in another and pay $4 to that association, then bowl in the third and pay another $4.
If I am concerned about an extra 60 cents lineage and potentially paying it two or three times a week, I shouldn't be bowling at all. At least I'm not paying multiple association fees to local associations that do nothing for me.
To each their own. But no matter how you parse it out, this entire thing is intended to be a source of revenue for Bowlero. Otherwise, they would not be doing it.
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Point being, this is all a question of time, money and to a lesser extent volunteerism, and the world is different now than it was in the USBC's (ABC's) heyday. In regards to Bowlero, the optimist's position here is that Bowlero has finally realized that today's league business leads to a lot of tomorrow business, and they're going to spend the money necessary to court it. The other issue is that the USBC has bad leadership at the moment, IMO. Like ... really, really bad.
The bold is a big thing, but the questions are:
1. Has the damage already been done? I mean, With Shannon saying what he's said, and and the actions Bowlero has put behind it, has the damage Bowlero has done to the relationship between that company and the league bowler over the past 8 years been too much to overcome?
2. Are the league bowlers' memories too short to remember what Bowlero has done to want to risk trusting them again? and
3. Has the ball ban fiasco (Spectre/infamous 6 from SPS/Purple Hammer) still fresh on the league bowlers' minds to push them away from the USBC and over to this certification program despite the damage Bowlero has done to leagues and the league bowler?
Only time can really tell on those, especially as this little tit-for-tat is going to go on for a while.
BL.
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There is no doubt that Bowlero sees a chance to make some money here. Businesses don't stay in business by giving things away. As soon as bowlers put their money in the envelope they don't think about how it gets split out (lineage, secretary fee, treasurer fee, prize fund.). They pay and bowl.
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There is no doubt that Bowlero sees a chance to make some money here. Businesses don't stay in business by giving things away. As soon as bowlers put their money in the envelope they don't think about how it gets split out (lineage, secretary fee, treasurer fee, prize fund.). They pay and bowl.
Oh, I agree that there's a chance for money to be made here, but the issue here is if the league bowler is willing to eat from the hand that feeds them, without realizing that that same hand burned them, and if they are willing to trust that hand again. If they are, then that could speak more about the gullibility of the bowler, let alone Bowlero.
BL.
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Point being, this is all a question of time, money and to a lesser extent volunteerism, and the world is different now than it was in the USBC's (ABC's) heyday. In regards to Bowlero, the optimist's position here is that Bowlero has finally realized that today's league business leads to a lot of tomorrow business, and they're going to spend the money necessary to court it. The other issue is that the USBC has bad leadership at the moment, IMO. Like ... really, really bad.
The bold is a big thing, but the questions are:
1. Has the damage already been done? I mean, With Shannon saying what he's said, and and the actions Bowlero has put behind it, has the damage Bowlero has done to the relationship between that company and the league bowler over the past 8 years been too much to overcome?
2. Are the league bowlers' memories too short to remember what Bowlero has done to want to risk trusting them again? and
3. Has the ball ban fiasco (Spectre/infamous 6 from SPS/Purple Hammer) still fresh on the league bowlers' minds to push them away from the USBC and over to this certification program despite the damage Bowlero has done to leagues and the league bowler?
Only time can really tell on those, especially as this little tit-for-tat is going to go on for a while.
BL.
Shannon said that in what, 2012? I'd like to think someone could change their tune in 10 years, but even if he hasn't changed it personally, if he has to change it for Bowlero to make money (and him to retain his position) then he'll change it out of convenience.
I think a lot of people take a look at what the USBC's mission statement is and try to apply similar logic to Bowlero. USBC can afford to be stoic in its mission (to a fault, for that matter) because that's in line with what nonprofits typically do. For-profit corporations are a lot more nimble as a rule, as they are serving a different endgame (profit vs. true "mission").
The big thing in this discussion is that the USBC was/is doomed. It has no leverage with centers anymore, and it lacks both the physical and monetary assets to grow league bowler membership by itself. It must do so in concert with BPAA and Bowlero centers -- and that's assuming the USBC would change its mission statement to prioritize recruiting new bowlers, which it has never shown any interest in doing. If Bowlero kills the USBC, it will be a case of hastening the inevitable. The USBC's core business going forward is going to be much leaner -- coaching/training, and running Nationals, the latter of which is the one thing Bowlero can't reproduce like-for-like because of its longevity and history. As the prime director of how the sport is going to be played in private centers, those days were going to be over in the next 10-20 years anyway. Now it's probably the next 5-10.
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Shannon said that in what, 2012? I'd like to think someone could change their tune in 10 years, but even if he hasn't changed it personally, if he has to change it for Bowlero to make money (and him to retain his position) then he'll change it out of convenience.
He said that in 2014.
And while I get that a person can change their minds about what they said, it's that much harder to undo the damage caused by the actions behind what they said. After his comments, Bowlero all but killed pro shops in their alleys, eliminated leagues, eliminated alleys, and pushed the league bowler out in favor of the recreational use and party crowd, and charging $15 - $30/per half hour in an attempt to lure that crowd, which apparently isn't going as well as they hoped.
I get the changing of their minds to try to get the league bowlers back, but they have a lot to undo that burned the league bowlers to get them to trust them again to not repeat the damage they have done. Like Poison sang Like the knife that cuts you: the wound heals, but the scar remains.
I think a lot of people take a look at what the USBC's mission statement is and try to apply similar logic to Bowlero. USBC can afford to be stoic in its mission (to a fault, for that matter) because that's in line with what nonprofits typically do. For-profit corporations are a lot more nimble as a rule, as they are serving a different endgame (profit vs. true "mission").
That's roughly the same with any corporation versus non-profit, along with who those entities are beholden to: For example, banks are beholden to the shareholders of that bank, while credit unions are beholden to the members of that credit union. Similar applies here: Bowlero is primarily beholden to the shareholders of the company, where the USBC is beholden to the members of the USBC.
The big thing in this discussion is that the USBC was/is doomed. It has no leverage with centers anymore, and it lacks both the physical and monetary assets to grow league bowler membership by itself. It must do so in concert with BPAA and Bowlero centers -- and that's assuming the USBC would change its mission statement to prioritize recruiting new bowlers, which it has never shown any interest in doing. If Bowlero kills the USBC, it will be a case of hastening the inevitable. The USBC's core business going forward is going to be much leaner -- coaching/training, and running Nationals, the latter of which is the one thing Bowlero can't reproduce like-for-like because of its longevity and history. As the prime director of how the sport is going to be played in private centers, those days were going to be over in the next 10-20 years anyway. Now it's probably the next 5-10.
While not defending the USBC, it didn't help that one company bought out most of the chains of alleys in the country. That does put a strain on the supply of alleys in the country, and could effective bring in talk of monopoly. But that is for another conversation altogether.
Again, I don't think that Bowlero's certification program will kill off the USBC, as a lot more than just leagues depend on the USBC. I mean, Team USA, Jr. Team USA, Collegiates, participation in PABCON, World Cup, and other international tournaments all depend on the USBC, in addition to stateside tournaments. The USBC is the governing body on those, and because of that, the USBC isn't going anywhere. At the most, Bowlero's offering will only be as an alternative to what the USBC already offers, stateside. That's why I keep saying that people need to hold fire with talk of this killing off the USBC.
BL.
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I don't see how Bowlero can roll this program out unless the company is ready to make a pivot. That includes the return of pro shops, and catering to league bowlers. Add in Tom Clark being the very public face of it in news releases -- and especially hiring Neil Stremmel, which you don't do unless you're going all-in on this concept -- and what this reads to me is a strategic change.
I agree that this will, at least temporarily, throw snags in a lot of things the USBC is involved with in the international realm, but I believe the USBC was in trouble already (and it wasn't the only bowling entity in trouble).
One thing I haven't mentioned is that I have been an executive director of two nonprofits, including one now. The one I'm involved with currently is even quasi-governmental, which adds another layer. Our budgets were/are smaller (six figures, each organization) but the fundamentals are the same: You have to get not only the right executive director in place, but also a board of directors that really gets what you're trying to do as an organization and at least attempts to stay ahead of the knowledge curve. It's that level at which most bowlers' complaints have been lodged, with the SPI bowling ball saga serving as the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. My evaluation of the USBC is that they have never been required to move more quickly than they're about to be, in order to compete with Bowlero and come to some kind of truce. USBC cannot win this, IMO, but maybe it arrives at cooperative agreement where it handles some things and Bowlero others. But if Bowlero goes forward with the plan as stated in its initial releases, it doesn't appear there's much room for consensus between the two organizations.
I feel this could have been avoided had the USBC acted more collegially for -- oh, I don't know, the last 20-30 years minimum? -- but its our-way-or-the-highway attitude, especially recently, is not something it could continue to swing over everyone's head while membership numbers were in repose. If Bowlero is a shark of a company as some people think, then it's just being a shark right now, having smelled blood in the waters.
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While not defending the USBC, it didn't help that one company bought out most of the chains of alleys in the country. That does put a strain on the supply of alleys in the country, and could effective bring in talk of monopoly. But that is for another conversation altogether.
Again, I don't think that Bowlero's certification program will kill off the USBC, as a lot more than just leagues depend on the USBC. I mean, Team USA, Jr. Team USA, Collegiates, participation in PABCON, World Cup, and other international tournaments all depend on the USBC, in addition to stateside tournaments. The USBC is the governing body on those, and because of that, the USBC isn't going anywhere. At the most, Bowlero's offering will only be as an alternative to what the USBC already offers, stateside. That's why I keep saying that people need to hold fire with talk of this killing off the USBC.
BL.
Bowlero only owns around 10% of the bowling centers in the United States. They are a long way from being a bowling monopoly. An argument could perhaps be made they hold a geographic monopoly in certain areas of the country, but as a whole they are not the sole provider of bowling.
This new association is also only affecting approximately 18% of the USBC's membership, and actually much less than that when taking into consideration not all of Bowlero's league bowlers were USBC members.
It has been over a year since Bowlero purchased a chain of three local bowling centers (one of which is where I do all of my bowling.) Business hours initially changed to 4PM-10PM. They have now been expanded to 11AM-10PM each day. Leagues continue. More have been added, actually. Pro shops remain in all three centers and are still owned by the PSOs that owned them before Bowlero took over.
The biggest change is with tournaments. The only tournaments being held at my center are tournaments that were scheduled/booked under the prior owner. The usual weekly house tournaments that we had were canceled. Tournaments at the other two centers that were purchased in the same deal have continued with no interruption.
When Bowlero bought our center, we were warned that leagues were up in the air and might not continue. That has been far from reality. They have been supported, encouraged, and league offerings expanded. Additionally, Bowlero is stepping up and subsidizing the scratch leagues with added prize money. The one league I bowl in used to be sponsored by Pepsi and Pepsi would add $1500 to the prize fund. Bowlero came in, pulled all vending machines, and Pepsi pulled the sponsorship. Pepsi said it wasn't worth it to them to sponsor the league if the Pepsi branded vending machines were gone (even though Bowlero continues to serve Pepsi products in the center.) Bowlero Corporate stepped up and added the $1500 to the prize fund. They have also already committed to doing the same this upcoming season. The other big scratch league used to be sponsored by Bud Light to the tune of a $3,000 contribution to the prize fund. Bud Light backed out, and Bowlero Corporate once again stepped in and added the $3,000 to the prize fund without blinking an eye. In both cases, the manager said he called Bowlero and asked if they would make those contributions. He said he was ready for a fight, but instead Bowlero simply said "No problem, how much do you need?"
It seems there may have been a paradigm shift within Bowlero with regards to the importance of league bowlers to their bottom line. Chasing out your repeat customers is not the best business model. This new association may ultimately be an attempt to further monetize that segment of their business, but at least they are actually acknowledging the importance of the league bowlers.
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While not defending the USBC, it didn't help that one company bought out most of the chains of alleys in the country. That does put a strain on the supply of alleys in the country, and could effective bring in talk of monopoly. But that is for another conversation altogether.
Again, I don't think that Bowlero's certification program will kill off the USBC, as a lot more than just leagues depend on the USBC. I mean, Team USA, Jr. Team USA, Collegiates, participation in PABCON, World Cup, and other international tournaments all depend on the USBC, in addition to stateside tournaments. The USBC is the governing body on those, and because of that, the USBC isn't going anywhere. At the most, Bowlero's offering will only be as an alternative to what the USBC already offers, stateside. That's why I keep saying that people need to hold fire with talk of this killing off the USBC.
BL.
Bowlero only owns around 10% of the bowling centers in the United States. They are a long way from being a bowling monopoly. An argument could perhaps be made they hold a geographic monopoly in certain areas of the country, but as a whole they are not the sole provider of bowling.
This new association is also only affecting approximately 18% of the USBC's membership, and actually much less than that when taking into consideration not all of Bowlero's league bowlers were USBC members.
It has been over a year since Bowlero purchased a chain of three local bowling centers (one of which is where I do all of my bowling.) Business hours initially changed to 4PM-10PM. They have now been expanded to 11AM-10PM each day. Leagues continue. More have been added, actually. Pro shops remain in all three centers and are still owned by the PSOs that owned them before Bowlero took over.
The biggest change is with tournaments. The only tournaments being held at my center are tournaments that were scheduled/booked under the prior owner. The usual weekly house tournaments that we had were canceled. Tournaments at the other two centers that were purchased in the same deal have continued with no interruption.
When Bowlero bought our center, we were warned that leagues were up in the air and might not continue. That has been far from reality. They have been supported, encouraged, and league offerings expanded. Additionally, Bowlero is stepping up and subsidizing the scratch leagues with added prize money. The one league I bowl in used to be sponsored by Pepsi and Pepsi would add $1500 to the prize fund. Bowlero came in, pulled all vending machines, and Pepsi pulled the sponsorship. Pepsi said it wasn't worth it to them to sponsor the league if the Pepsi branded vending machines were gone (even though Bowlero continues to serve Pepsi products in the center.) Bowlero Corporate stepped up and added the $1500 to the prize fund. They have also already committed to doing the same this upcoming season. The other big scratch league used to be sponsored by Bud Light to the tune of a $3,000 contribution to the prize fund. Bud Light backed out, and Bowlero Corporate once again stepped in and added the $3,000 to the prize fund without blinking an eye. In both cases, the manager said he called Bowlero and asked if they would make those contributions. He said he was ready for a fight, but instead Bowlero simply said "No problem, how much do you need?"
It seems there may have been a paradigm shift within Bowlero with regards to the importance of league bowlers to their bottom line. Chasing out your repeat customers is not the best business model. This new association may ultimately be an attempt to further monetize that segment of their business, but at least they are actually acknowledging the importance of the league bowlers.
I see what you mean. Unfortunately for a lot of other Bowlero centers, they haven't had the same experience. A lot of leagues did fall victim to their business model of pushing out customers. A lot of seniors lost their meeting/gathering place to do something fun and recreational, along with simply meeting. And it wasn't just from them pushing leagues out; 3 of the local Bowlero locations around here pushed their opening hours to 4pm, effectively shutting out their leagues; they closed down the 4th Bowlero house here completely; it was the alley where Wayne Webb had his pro shop. They then also pushed their weekend opening hours out to 1pm, which shut out any youth leagues. At one particular Bowlero here, they completely gutted the pro shop; thankfully, he was able to secure a spot outside and next door to the Bowlero location, so he's still there, and has hours separate/not depending on Bowlero being open.
If there has been a huge shift in paradigms by Bowlero, then a lot of what it would help if Bowlero would do what they are doing at your alleys across the board with all of their locations, because while you may be seeing one thing, and is the truth, others are not seeing that so they can't say the same. It would help if Bowlero put actions behind their words everywhere, so they could show that they are sincere in what they are trying to do, because having a statement about what they are doing doesn't carry much clout, compared to their actions, and they have a lot of actions to undo.
BL.
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Caught the Tom Clark interview on The Bowler's Show and encouraged by this. Even though I am not the biggest fan of Bowlero I can appreciate that an effort is being made to actually grow league bowling. Clark mentioned that there are 180,000 league bowlers at Bowlero centers (yay, an organization that actually provides #s instead of keeping it a secret). He did also say that Bowlero leagues will have the option to also be sanctioned by the USBC which would bring up an interesting scenario for any mid-season rule changes that one organization imposes but not the other.
It will be interesting to see what the USBC's response is to this. I think it's going to be really hard for them to make any big rule changes unless the PBA is on board with it. Cause now league bowlers will have an option to sanction through the PBA once this is opened to non-bowlero centers.
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People post a lot about Bowlero and not liking league bowlers in their houses which maybe true but it doesn't mean they and the PBA dont see a market for league bowlers and a governing body that includes centers everywhere and not just Bowlero.
Will be interesting
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Also just watched Tom Clark on The Bowler's Show. This new association seems to have been announced in its very infancy. They should have waited until 2023 to roll this out. You can't announce new rules and equipment specifications when they haven't been written yet, nor before the person leading that department has started working for you.
Basically what we have is a situation where Bowlero bowlers will be told they are in this program, but they really won't see any benefits until the 2023 season. It is still just a concept, if not a pipe dream at this point.
I just showed this interview to a former VP of our local USBC association, and he just laughed and said it made his head hurt. He also said that despite what narrative Tom Clark is putting out there, this is all a marketing ploy to promote the PBA brand. Nothing more, nothing less.
As Bowlero bowlers through acquisition of our home center, we now don't care at all what happens and don't expect this to gain any traction. The USBC may have issues, but this PBA program is going to be even worse. Oh well, my cautious optimism has been replaced by skepticism after Clark's interview.
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People post a lot about Bowlero and not liking league bowlers in their houses which maybe true but it doesn't mean they and the PBA dont see a market for league bowlers and a governing body that includes centers everywhere and not just Bowlero.
Will be interesting
Nothing interesting about Bowlero. They are making mistakes we knew not to make 50 years ago.
On so many levels, time I boycott this scourge on the sport and never set foot in one of their centers again. Which here in Phoenx will leave me (1) center as an option or driving 40 miles for another.
70s my industry start. Reared by truly great seasoned proprioetors and some of the games greatest mentor's for coaching, PSO training and every end from front desk to back room. At least 2000 hours outside of centers trainning not counting travel, hotel even renting an apartment once for 9 months. A decision I make not by being uniformed.
If the 80s was not a big enough disaster, this one will make it pale in comparison.
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People post a lot about Bowlero and not liking league bowlers in their houses which maybe true but it doesn't mean they and the PBA dont see a market for league bowlers and a governing body that includes centers everywhere and not just Bowlero.
Will be interesting
I get that, and it's about time they recognize their mistake by shutting out league bowling, as they had them prior to and during the first couple of months of the acquisition. But to get rid of them, and then now want them back, they have to at least acknowledge that they screwed up so they can get the sympathy of those bowlers they lost. That would take them a long way with getting them back.
As far as a governing body goes, that won't happen. The reason: The PBA is corporate. Unless the PBA submits paperwork to the USOC and USPC to become that national governing body, open up their books for scrutiny by the USOC, USPC and Congress, the PBA can not have this program become the governing body for the sport of bowling in the US. Their rules and setup would have to change, apply to be that governing body (and subject to the USOC, USPC, USADA, the Court of Arbitration of Sport, and be compliant to Title IX, which they haven't even begun to go down that road yet, let alone think about it.
BL.
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Please, please, please explain something to me.
You decide to open a bowling center or own one. You have 32 lanes. In order to open you must turn on lights and air conditioning for the entire place. You must pay employees to be there. You complain that bowler pushed out seniors and youth.
How many lanes were your seniors and youth using?
Most of the time I visited centers early Saturday morning or during the week when seniors bowled a league, less than 50% of the lanes were in use. How do you expect a business to make money.
Yes Bowlero has made some poor decisions. But I cannot fault them for adjusting their hours so that they can make a profit. Even centers owed by individuals are trying to make a profit.
If I owned a center and saw thru metrics that opening early for youth and seniors was not a profitable thing to do, I too would adjust my hours. I wouldn't lose money because that's just the way it was done in the past.
It's quite selfish in my opinion that bowlers think they are special and places of business should lose money because well they used to be open. It's not a business' job to be a place for seniors to meet.
And yes bowling is not growing as a sport. And if you think that is because Bowlero isn't open Saturday mornings, I disagree. Kids these days care about video games, Netflix, etc. All youth participation sports are down across the country. You shouldn't blame that on Bowlero.
Yes USBC needs to improve. I agree 100% on that.
But USBC membership is $22 (maybe going up) a year. That's 1/6 of the new bowling ball you just bought from Storm. That's the cost of the package of finger tape you bought from the pro shop.
I don't understand what you are expecting for $22 for an entire year. Bowlers bitch that they don't get multiple rings. Each ring at a minimum cost USBC $50. So your bitching that "you" didn't make a profit on your $22 investment.
USBC servers all levels of bowlers. Yes most of the complaining I see on here comes from the 190+ averages. (not always) Go survey your 150-170 average league bowlers who buy $50 worth of beer each week. You know what, they don't care what USBC does or doesn't do. They pay their $22 a year and order their 3 pitchers of beer a night. It's a select group of bowlers that want/expect USBC to meet their needs. The rest don't care.
-
Please, please, please explain something to me.
You decide to open a bowling center or own one. You have 32 lanes. In order to open you must turn on lights and air conditioning for the entire place. You must pay employees to be there. You complain that bowler pushed out seniors and youth.
How many lanes were your seniors and youth using?
Most of the time I visited centers early Saturday morning or during the week when seniors bowled a league, less than 50% of the lanes were in use. How do you expect a business to make money.
Yes Bowlero has made some poor decisions. But I cannot fault them for adjusting their hours so that they can make a profit. Even centers owed by individuals are trying to make a profit.
If I owned a center and saw thru metrics that opening early for youth and seniors was not a profitable thing to do, I too would adjust my hours. I wouldn't lose money because that's just the way it was done in the past.
It's quite selfish in my opinion that bowlers think they are special and places of business should lose money because well they used to be open. It's not a business' job to be a place for seniors to meet.
And yes bowling is not growing as a sport. And if you think that is because Bowlero isn't open Saturday mornings, I disagree. Kids these days care about video games, Netflix, etc. All youth participation sports are down across the country. You shouldn't blame that on Bowlero.
Yes USBC needs to improve. I agree 100% on that.
But USBC membership is $22 (maybe going up) a year. That's 1/6 of the new bowling ball you just bought from Storm. That's the cost of the package of finger tape you bought from the pro shop.
I don't understand what you are expecting for $22 for an entire year. Bowlers bitch that they don't get multiple rings. Each ring at a minimum cost USBC $50. So your bitching that "you" didn't make a profit on your $22 investment.
USBC servers all levels of bowlers. Yes most of the complaining I see on here comes from the 190+ averages. (not always) Go survey your 150-170 average league bowlers who buy $50 worth of beer each week. You know what, they don't care what USBC does or doesn't do. They pay their $22 a year and order their 3 pitchers of beer a night. It's a select group of bowlers that want/expect USBC to meet their needs. The rest don't care.
It depends on the bowling alley I guess. Bowlero in Manteca CA started out well, but now they seem to be cutting every corner they can. The AC has not worked for more than a year. They finally fixed the unit that cooled the offices and desk area, but not the lanes.
They also don't clean the place, the bathrooms have not been cleaned in months. Lanes are broken and not repaired, but at least they painted the walls and ceilings black to look good with the glow bowling lights.
Oddly enough, they are losing bowlers. Yea, the 190+ bowlers are bitching about it when the temp gets over 100 degrees here in Central California. What a bunch of cry babies.
-
Please, please, please explain something to me.
You decide to open a bowling center or own one. You have 32 lanes. In order to open you must turn on lights and air conditioning for the entire place. You must pay employees to be there. You complain that bowler pushed out seniors and youth.
How many lanes were your seniors and youth using?
Most of the time I visited centers early Saturday morning or during the week when seniors bowled a league, less than 50% of the lanes were in use. How do you expect a business to make money.
Yes Bowlero has made some poor decisions. But I cannot fault them for adjusting their hours so that they can make a profit. Even centers owed by individuals are trying to make a profit.
If I owned a center and saw thru metrics that opening early for youth and seniors was not a profitable thing to do, I too would adjust my hours. I wouldn't lose money because that's just the way it was done in the past.
It's quite selfish in my opinion that bowlers think they are special and places of business should lose money because well they used to be open. It's not a business' job to be a place for seniors to meet.
And yes bowling is not growing as a sport. And if you think that is because Bowlero isn't open Saturday mornings, I disagree. Kids these days care about video games, Netflix, etc. All youth participation sports are down across the country. You shouldn't blame that on Bowlero.
Yes USBC needs to improve. I agree 100% on that.
But USBC membership is $22 (maybe going up) a year. That's 1/6 of the new bowling ball you just bought from Storm. That's the cost of the package of finger tape you bought from the pro shop.
I don't understand what you are expecting for $22 for an entire year. Bowlers bitch that they don't get multiple rings. Each ring at a minimum cost USBC $50. So your bitching that "you" didn't make a profit on your $22 investment.
USBC servers all levels of bowlers. Yes most of the complaining I see on here comes from the 190+ averages. (not always) Go survey your 150-170 average league bowlers who buy $50 worth of beer each week. You know what, they don't care what USBC does or doesn't do. They pay their $22 a year and order their 3 pitchers of beer a night. It's a select group of bowlers that want/expect USBC to meet their needs. The rest don't care.
It depends on the bowling alley I guess. Bowlero in Manteca CA started out well, but now they seem to be cutting every corner they can. The AC has not worked for more than a year. They finally fixed the unit that cooled the offices and desk area, but not the lanes.
They also don't clean the place, the bathrooms have not been cleaned in months. Lanes are broken and not repaired, but at least they painted the walls and ceilings black to look good with the glow bowling lights.
Oddly enough, they are losing bowlers. Yea, the 190+ bowlers are bitching about it when the temp gets over 100 degrees here in Central California. What a bunch of cry babies.
In the last 1 1/2 years frequenting a Bowlero Center the desk never asked me to sign up for a league or even come back to open bowl again.
Truly a strange way to operate a center. League building is hard work, always has been.
Bowlero Managers / Desk, last weeks Arby's managers & line cooks.
Bowlero Front desk design is truly brilliant. Putting a wall up behind the desk Personel in many centers so they cant even monitor the lanes, see a rowdy group, catch a 180 before its called in. If your in a Brunswick A2 house, look for the oil leaks running down behind the 8 pin. If their mechanics can't stop oil from entering into the pin and ball transfers systems or to lazy too, think anything else gets fixed? Think they care? Look at the condition of their house balls before throwing yours, give you a good idea what damage is instore.
Short of the USBC doing nothing to protect the intergrity of the sport, no issues with them other than the tired 45 year debates over inflated scoring.
On senior leagues, typical was more than several per week. Typical sr. times 7am, 9am, 11 am and 1 pm.
More importantly many indroduced their kids, grandkids to the sport. One of 3 extremely important demograhics if not the most important for some reason and Bowlero ran them.
Nice Job Bowlero.... clap clap clap
-
I happen to be friends with the head mechanic at a local bowlero as well as an independent owner of a bowling center in the area.
I bowl and support both centers. Both places have "lane" issues. I have spoken to both of my friends about the issues. Here's their answers. We can't get parts.
The head mechanic showed me their order of $10,000 in parts from the distributors. They are back ordered for 2 months. Their hopes are to get the parts in so that the lanes will all be in good condition when the fall leagues start. This bowlero house supports leagues and has grown their leagues. They have leagues every night of the week except Friday and Saturday which are the open play money makers.
The independently owned house owner told me the same thing. Lane parts backordered from China.
So it's not always the house isn't spending the money to maintain the lanes and pinsetters. There are outside issues this pandemic caused that are still being felt as far as parts availability.
I am sure there are centers that are worse than others. But in this area, both Bowlero and of course the independent house both support league bowlers.
-
Please, please, please explain something to me.
You decide to open a bowling center or own one. You have 32 lanes. In order to open you must turn on lights and air conditioning for the entire place. You must pay employees to be there. You complain that bowler pushed out seniors and youth.
How many lanes were your seniors and youth using?
Most of the time I visited centers early Saturday morning or during the week when seniors bowled a league, less than 50% of the lanes were in use. How do you expect a business to make money.
Yes Bowlero has made some poor decisions. But I cannot fault them for adjusting their hours so that they can make a profit. Even centers owed by individuals are trying to make a profit.
If I owned a center and saw thru metrics that opening early for youth and seniors was not a profitable thing to do, I too would adjust my hours. I wouldn't lose money because that's just the way it was done in the past.
It's quite selfish in my opinion that bowlers think they are special and places of business should lose money because well they used to be open. It's not a business' job to be a place for seniors to meet.
And yes bowling is not growing as a sport. And if you think that is because Bowlero isn't open Saturday mornings, I disagree. Kids these days care about video games, Netflix, etc. All youth participation sports are down across the country. You shouldn't blame that on Bowlero.
Yes USBC needs to improve. I agree 100% on that.
But USBC membership is $22 (maybe going up) a year. That's 1/6 of the new bowling ball you just bought from Storm. That's the cost of the package of finger tape you bought from the pro shop.
I don't understand what you are expecting for $22 for an entire year. Bowlers bitch that they don't get multiple rings. Each ring at a minimum cost USBC $50. So your bitching that "you" didn't make a profit on your $22 investment.
USBC servers all levels of bowlers. Yes most of the complaining I see on here comes from the 190+ averages. (not always) Go survey your 150-170 average league bowlers who buy $50 worth of beer each week. You know what, they don't care what USBC does or doesn't do. They pay their $22 a year and order their 3 pitchers of beer a night. It's a select group of bowlers that want/expect USBC to meet their needs. The rest don't care.
It depends on the bowling alley I guess. Bowlero in Manteca CA started out well, but now they seem to be cutting every corner they can. The AC has not worked for more than a year. They finally fixed the unit that cooled the offices and desk area, but not the lanes.
They also don't clean the place, the bathrooms have not been cleaned in months. Lanes are broken and not repaired, but at least they painted the walls and ceilings black to look good with the glow bowling lights.
Oddly enough, they are losing bowlers. Yea, the 190+ bowlers are bitching about it when the temp gets over 100 degrees here in Central California. What a bunch of cry babies.
In the last 1 1/2 years frequenting a Bowlero Center the desk never asked me to sign up for a league or even come back to open bowl again.
Truly a strange way to operate a center. League building is hard work, always has been.
Bowlero Managers / Desk, last weeks Arby's managers & line cooks.
Bowlero Front desk design is truly brilliant. Putting a wall up behind the desk Personel in many centers so they cant even monitor the lanes, see a rowdy group, catch a 180 before its called in. If your in a Brunswick A2 house, look for the oil leaks running down behind the 8 pin. If their mechanics can't stop oil from entering into the pin and ball transfers systems or to lazy too, think anything else gets fixed? Think they care? Look at the condition of their house balls before throwing yours, give you a good idea what damage is instore.
Short of the USBC doing nothing to protect the intergrity of the sport, no issues with them other than the tired 45 year debates over inflated scoring.
On senior leagues, typical was more than several per week. Typical sr. times 7am, 9am, 11 am and 1 pm.
More importantly many indroduced their kids, grandkids to the sport. One of 3 extremely important demograhics if not the most important for some reason and Bowlero ran them.
Nice Job Bowlero.... clap clap clap
So you are the business owner, you are fine giving away your money to grow the sport. Good for you. Go to your local center an announce you are sponsoring a youth league. You will pay 50% of the youth's lineage so they can bowl and learn the sport. Do your part. You expect the business owners to do that. You should give away your money as well.
-
I happen to be friends with the head mechanic at a local bowlero as well as an independent owner of a bowling center in the area.
I bowl and support both centers. Both places have "lane" issues. I have spoken to both of my friends about the issues. Here's their answers. We can't get parts.
The head mechanic showed me their order of $10,000 in parts from the distributors. They are back ordered for 2 months. Their hopes are to get the parts in so that the lanes will all be in good condition when the fall leagues start. This bowlero house supports leagues and has grown their leagues. They have leagues every night of the week except Friday and Saturday which are the open play money makers.
The independently owned house owner told me the same thing. Lane parts backordered from China.
So it's not always the house isn't spending the money to maintain the lanes and pinsetters. There are outside issues this pandemic caused that are still being felt as far as parts availability.
I am sure there are centers that are worse than others. But in this area, both Bowlero and of course the independent house both support league bowlers.
I suppose Ajax and bathroom cleaner is also backordered
-
I happen to be friends with the head mechanic at a local bowlero as well as an independent owner of a bowling center in the area.
I bowl and support both centers. Both places have "lane" issues. I have spoken to both of my friends about the issues. Here's their answers. We can't get parts.
The head mechanic showed me their order of $10,000 in parts from the distributors. They are back ordered for 2 months. Their hopes are to get the parts in so that the lanes will all be in good condition when the fall leagues start. This bowlero house supports leagues and has grown their leagues. They have leagues every night of the week except Friday and Saturday which are the open play money makers.
The independently owned house owner told me the same thing. Lane parts backordered from China.
So it's not always the house isn't spending the money to maintain the lanes and pinsetters. There are outside issues this pandemic caused that are still being felt as far as parts availability.
I am sure there are centers that are worse than others. But in this area, both Bowlero and of course the independent house both support league bowlers.
That's happening in an independent house we bowl in here. A casino owns it, 16 Brunswick GSX pinsetters over Anvilane. Two of the lanes keep dropping the 2 or the 3 pin if they're still standing when the machine cycles to the second ball. Mechanic diagnoses the problem as the pincher system that grabs standing pins and orders the parts. After 2-3 months, they finally get parts -- and they're the wrong ones. Back to square one.
The oil machine was on the fritz for the better part of 3-4 months back in the winter season, same deal. Distributor couldn't get parts. I just happened to be at Kegel for a lesson and mentioned it to Del Warren and he told me to tell the center to pick up the phone and call Kegel directly, that they would help. I passed the info along to the center. Oiling issues have quieted down substantially so I guess they took Del up on his offer.
I don't know what else houses are running out of but anything that comes from China right now is a crapshoot. I'm not sure where all companies get their accessories from, but I've heard Storm is either out of its branded plugging material altogether, or supplies at least are tight. A couple of companies that sell the smooth vinyl thumb tapes are out of 1-inch width. It's a disease.
-
I happen to be friends with the head mechanic at a local bowlero as well as an independent owner of a bowling center in the area.
I bowl and support both centers. Both places have "lane" issues. I have spoken to both of my friends about the issues. Here's their answers. We can't get parts.
The head mechanic showed me their order of $10,000 in parts from the distributors. They are back ordered for 2 months. Their hopes are to get the parts in so that the lanes will all be in good condition when the fall leagues start. This bowlero house supports leagues and has grown their leagues. They have leagues every night of the week except Friday and Saturday which are the open play money makers.
The independently owned house owner told me the same thing. Lane parts backordered from China.
So it's not always the house isn't spending the money to maintain the lanes and pinsetters. There are outside issues this pandemic caused that are still being felt as far as parts availability.
I am sure there are centers that are worse than others. But in this area, both Bowlero and of course the independent house both support league bowlers.
That's happening in an independent house we bowl in here. A casino owns it, 16 Brunswick GSX pinsetters over Anvilane. Two of the lanes keep dropping the 2 or the 3 pin if they're still standing when the machine cycles to the second ball. Mechanic diagnoses the problem as the pincher system that grabs standing pins and orders the parts. After 2-3 months, they finally get parts -- and they're the wrong ones. Back to square one.
The oil machine was on the fritz for the better part of 3-4 months back in the winter season, same deal. Distributor couldn't get parts. I just happened to be at Kegel for a lesson and mentioned it to Del Warren and he told me to tell the center to pick up the phone and call Kegel directly, that they would help. I passed the info along to the center. Oiling issues have quieted down substantially so I guess they took Del up on his offer.
I don't know what else houses are running out of but anything that comes from China right now is a crapshoot. I'm not sure where all companies get their accessories from, but I've heard Storm is either out of its branded plugging material altogether, or supplies at least are tight. A couple of companies that sell the smooth vinyl thumb tapes are out of 1-inch width. It's a disease.
The lack of proper center maintenance training has been an industry issue since the beginning of automatic machines. Its not a short term pandemic sourcing issue.
For decades the industry full of mechanics that put out fires instead of following well laid out preventive maintence programs designed by the manufactures engineers. I've seen the repairs made by using duct tape, bailing wire, plastic wire ties, hose clamps, bad welding, fiberglass patches and none are OEM parts. I've seen the poor choices to use non OEM parts that performed poorly, did not last under the guise of saving a buck. My Center Certifications and trainning are second to none. Be it a 12 lane house or 48, be it a 24 hour Center, I've designed the lane, machines, automatic scorers, and full facility maintenance programs. I've had to tell owners these are the issues with their machines, they have been bandaged and run into the ground, that to bring back to OEM spec, exceed industry standards of acceptable trouble calls a full rebuild of every machine is needed. That every shaft, bearing, deck bucket will need to be replaced, that every gearbox will need to be rebuilt.
Centers like these machines break down fast, mechanics cant stock enough parts because they don't know what is going to break forever in the next 15 minutes. Belts and bearings across the house worn. Bad bearing seizing and taking out expensive shafts then and costing an owner more money and bad reputation. Centers like these likely operate with no spare parts for their Lane Machine or Auto Scoring Systems.
In fairness to Bowlero head mechanics, the shortened center hours DO NOT provide the man hours to perform proper preventive maintenance JUST on the machines of a 48 lane center, let alone the Automatic Scorers, proper Lane Maintenance and the entire house. On top of that, center owners expect an expertise not only in the specialized equipment of a center but Low Voltage, Electrical, Plumbing, HVAC, Small Appliance Repairs (the french fryer) yet if you are employed with a company that does just any of these things, trust me when I say any of them will pay better.
And all that said... as centers continue decline in count at what point is it no longer profitable for companies to make the parts? Develope new lane beds and sell? or Automatic scorers?
Its complicated and if I was Bowlero would be doing everything in my power to promote the overall health of what once was an industry. I would be sitting done with the BPAA and questing the direction they are going as the indudstry's trade organization and working together. 1 or 300 centers is not enough to campaign, pool 4000 centers working together then increasing USBC membership may be possible.
This is what the old shcool BPAA did, what old school sole proprietors understood. As a single center, 10 centers you can only do so much and it in no shape or form is up to the USBC to bring buisness into your center.
Just my 2 cents...
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Please, please, please explain something to me.
You decide to open a bowling center or own one. You have 32 lanes. In order to open you must turn on lights and air conditioning for the entire place. You must pay employees to be there. You complain that bowler pushed out seniors and youth.
How many lanes were your seniors and youth using?
During the work week, at the Bowlero house I used to bowl at, they had 40 out of the 50 lanes being used for senior leagues during the week, and every lane used for youth bowling on Saturdays. At the independent house I bowl at, the house is packed throughout the week as well as on the weekends until the mid afternoon. Both alleys opened at 9am or earlier.
Most of the time I visited centers early Saturday morning or during the week when seniors bowled a league, less than 50% of the lanes were in use. How do you expect a business to make money.
Again, the stats are situational, because what may not work for you at one particular location is/was working for others in other locations; Bowlero or otherwise.
Yes Bowlero has made some poor decisions. But I cannot fault them for adjusting their hours so that they can make a profit. Even centers owed by individuals are trying to make a profit.
Yes, all bowling centers are trying to make a profit; however, I don't see individual bowling centers in the areas I frequent adjusting their hours and cutting out leagues to do as such. One such alley in Sacramento is still making a killing of it with opening at 9am every day. Another stays open 24 hours, and again, not a single problem. The ones that we've seen struggling at any point, are the ones owned by Bowlero.
There are no Bowlero locations within a 200 mile radius of Las Vegas, or Omaha, so we also don't have that issue there, as most alleys in Vegas are open 24 hours, and every alley in Omaha opens at 10am, with the exception of Saturday mornings, when they are open at 8am, as leagues start at 9am.
If I owned a center and saw thru metrics that opening early for youth and seniors was not a profitable thing to do, I too would adjust my hours. I wouldn't lose money because that's just the way it was done in the past.
Again, everything there is situational. In the 3 cities I frequent, I am not seeing that issue for it to be blamed, except only at Bowlero locations. This doesn't make it a profitability issue; instead, this seems to be isolated only to Bowlero.
It's quite selfish in my opinion that bowlers think they are special and places of business should lose money because well they used to be open. It's not a business' job to be a place for seniors to meet.
It isn't. What is happening is the very thing you're complaining about; the owner is removing the very thing they need: patrons so they can earn a profit. You don't spend $1000 to earn $1050; that extra $50 doesn't get you anything. In fact, in doing what they have done, they have further shot themselves in the foot to where they have had to rethink their business practice and pivot BACK to what they were doing before: hosting leagues and attracting the league bowler, because they lost the biggest revenue stream they had: REPEAT CUSTOMERS.
And yes bowling is not growing as a sport. And if you think that is because Bowlero isn't open Saturday mornings, I disagree. Kids these days care about video games, Netflix, etc. All youth participation sports are down across the country. You shouldn't blame that on Bowlero.
No-one is solely blaming Bowlero on that; however, they are contributing to the problem by not having a place for those kids to go so they get out from in front of the TV or their screens. Besides, like with seniors, they shot themselves in the proverbial foot by taking away yet another revenue stream, that further pulls from their profits. They can't have it both ways, in complaining about not making money, while not doing anything to help generate that money.
Yes USBC needs to improve. I agree 100% on that.
That's a given. We all know that; hopefully the USBC does improve.
But USBC membership is $22 (maybe going up) a year. That's 1/6 of the new bowling ball you just bought from Storm. That's the cost of the package of finger tape you bought from the pro shop.
I don't understand what you are expecting for $22 for an entire year. Bowlers bitch that they don't get multiple rings. Each ring at a minimum cost USBC $50. So your bitching that "you" didn't make a profit on your $22 investment.
You have to have a place to put that $22 membership to use. It doesn't help, let alone do a bloody thing if Bowlero limits the time to put that membership to work. That isn't the USBC's fault; again, that lies squarely on Bowlero.
USBC servers all levels of bowlers. Yes most of the complaining I see on here comes from the 190+ averages. (not always) Go survey your 150-170 average league bowlers who buy $50 worth of beer each week. You know what, they don't care what USBC does or doesn't do. They pay their $22 a year and order their 3 pitchers of beer a night. It's a select group of bowlers that want/expect USBC to meet their needs. The rest don't care.
Again, they will care when their options are limited for where they can go bowl that 150-170 average and drink those beers. What they will then tend to do is not bowl at all, which takes money away from the USBC as well as Bowlero, leaving both in the lurch and complaining about the very thing they are complaining about now. They don't have the right to complain when they do this to and kneecap themselves.
BL.
-
Please, please, please explain something to me.
You decide to open a bowling center or own one. You have 32 lanes. In order to open you must turn on lights and air conditioning for the entire place. You must pay employees to be there. You complain that bowler pushed out seniors and youth.
How many lanes were your seniors and youth using?
During the work week, at the Bowlero house I used to bowl at, they had 40 out of the 50 lanes being used for senior leagues during the week, and every lane used for youth bowling on Saturdays. At the independent house I bowl at, the house is packed throughout the week as well as on the weekends until the mid afternoon. Both alleys opened at 9am or earlier.
Most of the time I visited centers early Saturday morning or during the week when seniors bowled a league, less than 50% of the lanes were in use. How do you expect a business to make money.
Again, the stats are situational, because what may not work for you at one particular location is/was working for others in other locations; Bowlero or otherwise.
Yes Bowlero has made some poor decisions. But I cannot fault them for adjusting their hours so that they can make a profit. Even centers owed by individuals are trying to make a profit.
Yes, all bowling centers are trying to make a profit; however, I don't see individual bowling centers in the areas I frequent adjusting their hours and cutting out leagues to do as such. One such alley in Sacramento is still making a killing of it with opening at 9am every day. Another stays open 24 hours, and again, not a single problem. The ones that we've seen struggling at any point, are the ones owned by Bowlero.
There are no Bowlero locations within a 200 mile radius of Las Vegas, or Omaha, so we also don't have that issue there, as most alleys in Vegas are open 24 hours, and every alley in Omaha opens at 10am, with the exception of Saturday mornings, when they are open at 8am, as leagues start at 9am.
If I owned a center and saw thru metrics that opening early for youth and seniors was not a profitable thing to do, I too would adjust my hours. I wouldn't lose money because that's just the way it was done in the past.
Again, everything there is situational. In the 3 cities I frequent, I am not seeing that issue for it to be blamed, except only at Bowlero locations. This doesn't make it a profitability issue; instead, this seems to be isolated only to Bowlero.
It's quite selfish in my opinion that bowlers think they are special and places of business should lose money because well they used to be open. It's not a business' job to be a place for seniors to meet.
It isn't. What is happening is the very thing you're complaining about; the owner is removing the very thing they need: patrons so they can earn a profit. You don't spend $1000 to earn $1050; that extra $50 doesn't get you anything. In fact, in doing what they have done, they have further shot themselves in the foot to where they have had to rethink their business practice and pivot BACK to what they were doing before: hosting leagues and attracting the league bowler, because they lost the biggest revenue stream they had: REPEAT CUSTOMERS.
And yes bowling is not growing as a sport. And if you think that is because Bowlero isn't open Saturday mornings, I disagree. Kids these days care about video games, Netflix, etc. All youth participation sports are down across the country. You shouldn't blame that on Bowlero.
No-one is solely blaming Bowlero on that; however, they are contributing to the problem by not having a place for those kids to go so they get out from in front of the TV or their screens. Besides, like with seniors, they shot themselves in the proverbial foot by taking away yet another revenue stream, that further pulls from their profits. They can't have it both ways, in complaining about not making money, while not doing anything to help generate that money.
Yes USBC needs to improve. I agree 100% on that.
That's a given. We all know that; hopefully the USBC does improve.
But USBC membership is $22 (maybe going up) a year. That's 1/6 of the new bowling ball you just bought from Storm. That's the cost of the package of finger tape you bought from the pro shop.
I don't understand what you are expecting for $22 for an entire year. Bowlers bitch that they don't get multiple rings. Each ring at a minimum cost USBC $50. So your bitching that "you" didn't make a profit on your $22 investment.
You have to have a place to put that $22 membership to use. It doesn't help, let alone do a bloody thing if Bowlero limits the time to put that membership to work. That isn't the USBC's fault; again, that lies squarely on Bowlero.
USBC servers all levels of bowlers. Yes most of the complaining I see on here comes from the 190+ averages. (not always) Go survey your 150-170 average league bowlers who buy $50 worth of beer each week. You know what, they don't care what USBC does or doesn't do. They pay their $22 a year and order their 3 pitchers of beer a night. It's a select group of bowlers that want/expect USBC to meet their needs. The rest don't care.
Again, they will care when their options are limited for where they can go bowl that 150-170 average and drink those beers. What they will then tend to do is not bowl at all, which takes money away from the USBC as well as Bowlero, leaving both in the lurch and complaining about the very thing they are complaining about now. They don't have the right to complain when they do this to and kneecap themselves.
BL.
All valid points. I would think that a lot of chain business have the same issues. I have been in Home Depot's that are immaculately clean. I have been in Home Depot's that you can clearly see do not keep up on cleanliness or are plain dirty. There are a few Bowlero houses in the DFW area and I can say some are very nice, some aren't. But I can say that about independent houses too. We bowl a travel league that goes all through east Texas and there are no Bowlero houses involved. All independently owned. Some houses are pristine. Others not so much. What's that mean, my pure guess is some managers require their employees to clean more than others. It's probably not at the owner level. Most businesses have cleaning/maintenance requirements. But I'd bet my hard earned money that not all of those business, chain or otherwise, follow those cleaning requirements.
And these days, at least here in DFW, everyone is hiring. So most bowling centers are short-staffed as most businesses probably are.
Not an excuse for not cleaning as well, just reality.
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All valid points. I would think that a lot of chain business have the same issues. I have been in Home Depot's that are immaculately clean. I have been in Home Depot's that you can clearly see do not keep up on cleanliness or are plain dirty. There are a few Bowlero houses in the DFW area and I can say some are very nice, some aren't. But I can say that about independent houses too. We bowl a travel league that goes all through east Texas and there are no Bowlero houses involved. All independently owned. Some houses are pristine. Others not so much. What's that mean, my pure guess is some managers require their employees to clean more than others. It's probably not at the owner level. Most businesses have cleaning/maintenance requirements. But I'd bet my hard earned money that not all of those business, chain or otherwise, follow those cleaning requirements.
And these days, at least here in DFW, everyone is hiring. So most bowling centers are short-staffed as most businesses probably are.
Not an excuse for not cleaning as well, just reality.
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Some chains are better structured.
Both Brunswick and AMF Corporate owned houses were more consistant from center to center than Bowlero do to this. AMF created oversight by having District Managers and District Head Mechanics physically inspecting centers and reporting to Regional Managers. On top of that AMF used weekly Secret Shoppers and then the mandatory monthly meetings with the District Manager. In these sitting at a table with (15) area managers openly discussing issues or failings. District could or would drop in unanounced and if (3) write ups termination unless choose forgiveness on 3rd and going forward.
Independent houses are all over the board and case by case basis. My expectations drop the smaller the house and other factors considered say small town or club owned center. I still expect clean restrooms but not so much my ball will come back anytime soon. And no matter the center size if you are unwilling to keep your centers lanes conditioned properly and at all times, if you are unwilling to protect the lanes surface I just as soon you close your doors forever. Bowlero is a huge offender and personally do not think they know how to design a proper lane or machine maintence program not to mention the entire house. Just a couple of the reasons I boycott this scourge on the sport.
Its a complicated industry and at a time little room for these amatures.
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Bowlero is a publicly held company. Their primary obligation is to act in the best interest of their shareholders and show a profit. Many times this means cutting corners as it pertains to the customer experience. It also means keeping overhead expenses to a minimum to keep that profit number where it is expected.
Bowlero is certainly not a perfect organization. They are primarily in the entertainment business. We as regular league bowlers are repeat customers for them. League bowlers, however, are not a huge source of revenue for them compared to what the open play bowlers spend. Bowlero is looking at that and views us as lost opportunity to rent the lane at full price. League bowlers are paying $16 lineage. Ten league bowlers on a pair is $160 for Bowlero. If open bowlers come in and bowl three games, each bowler would be in for at least $27 ($7 per game plus $6:shoe rental.). Ten open bowlers gets them $270 for the pair. They are giving up the opportunity to make an extra $110 for the pair by hosting leagues. Not to mention food sales, drinks, arcade play, etc. League bowlers don't buy as much food as open bowlers and do not play in the arcade unless they also bring their children with them.
Bowlero tolerates leagues because there is no guarantee they would fill all of their lanes with open bowlers at the higher rates. It is a balancing act where they want to have enough lanes for league bowlers but also full the remaining open lanes with open bowlers. Too many league bowlers and the higher profit margin open bowlers are locked out. Too few league bowlers, and there is a risk that open lanes will go unused. So the league bowlers are viewed as a necessary evil by Bowlero.
This new PBA league certification plan is more a brainchild of the PBA marketing team than it is a Bowlero Corporate thing. Bowlero owns the PBA, and the PBA views this as an opportunity to grow brand awareness for the PBA. It is being presented under the guise of a benefit for league bowlers. Bowlero most likely went along with it to appease the PBA and at the same time make it seem like they are investing in their league bowlers. It is all smoke and mirrors. They are rolling out an incomplete program this fall. Neil Stremmel doesn't even start until July 6th. There are no rules or equipment specifications created at this point. The awards program they are talking about is embarrassing (printable certificates, NFTs, congratulatory messages from PBA pros??) Waste of time. They have not even started any discussions with other industry partners. This new program is purely marketing. That's it. It doesn't make the league experience any better or grow league participation.
One of the first questions asked of Tom Clark by a viewer was basically if non-Bowlero bowlers would be allowed to bowl in the PBA League Certification national tournament. Basically, the bowlers that either wouldn't set foot in a Bowlero or don't have access to a Bowlero want to bowl in the national tournament. Clark waffled at first, but then basically said they hadn't really thought about it but it would make sense to permit it as long as the bowler joined their association. That doesn't grow leagues, but it does add more money to this marketing program.
Clark also claims that each Bowlero will be holding a local King of the Center type of tournament. If they are going to permit non-Bowlero bowlers to enter that as well, the concept of it gets diluted. Again, much ado about nothing.
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I don't know why PBA league would be any better than USBC league. Sounds like an "everyone hates USBC, let's exploit that" move.
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Tom Clark thinks that the PBA holds some sort of cachet with league bowlers, and they will be mutually elevated by associating with each other. News flash. 98% of league bowlers couldn't care less about the PBA.
Example. We had a Pro-am here recently. Bill O'Neill, Jason Sterner, PBIII, Doug Kent were the headliners. Fellow league bowler asked me if PDW was coming. I said no. He asked who the big names were and I told him. He shrugged, said he wasn't familiar with them, and said he didn't want to waste the time and money. He also said his current average was too high and he wouldn't be getting the amount of handicap he wanted. The guy cared more about his handicap than he did bowling with some of the best bowlers in the PBA (who he didn't even really know anyway.)
Bowlero and the PBA are wasting everybody's time with this.
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Bowlero and the PBA are just trying to figure out a way to get league bowlers to give them more money.
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Bowlero announced that they are rejoining the BPAA. Their statement says they see this as a way to elevate the PBA Tour. It's all about marketing and branding and money. Sounds like maybe the PBA is costing them money and this whole thing is an attempt to bail it out.
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Bowlero announced that they are rejoining the BPAA. Their statement says they see this as a way to elevate the PBA Tour. It's all about marketing and branding and money. Sounds like maybe the PBA is costing them money and this whole thing is an attempt to bail it out.
They realized that they'd miss out on the Masters and US Open if they didn't.
For the marketing and branding, it would have made sense for all of the PBA tournaments to be held in Bowlero facilities if possible. As the Masters and US Open are USBC tournaments, for that to happen and keep the branding for the PBA to hold those tournaments at a Bowlero location, Bowlero would have to join and be certified by the BPAA again.
Again, lost revenue and backtrack to retain the branding, marketing, and profit.
Bowlero is a publicly held company. Their primary obligation is to act in the best interest of their shareholders and show a profit. Many times this means cutting corners as it pertains to the customer experience. It also means keeping overhead expenses to a minimum to keep that profit number where it is expected.
Bowlero is certainly not a perfect organization. They are primarily in the entertainment business. We as regular league bowlers are repeat customers for them. League bowlers, however, are not a huge source of revenue for them compared to what the open play bowlers spend. Bowlero is looking at that and views us as lost opportunity to rent the lane at full price. League bowlers are paying $16 lineage. Ten league bowlers on a pair is $160 for Bowlero. If open bowlers come in and bowl three games, each bowler would be in for at least $27 ($7 per game plus $6:shoe rental.). Ten open bowlers gets them $270 for the pair. They are giving up the opportunity to make an extra $110 for the pair by hosting leagues. Not to mention food sales, drinks, arcade play, etc. League bowlers don't buy as much food as open bowlers and do not play in the arcade unless they also bring their children with them.
Three of the independents here (one of which goes more than out of their way for leagues) only give the static rates to the league bowlers, and one of them even gives a card where leagues are $.25/game. If you aren't in a league there, you'll get the timed rate, which could be anywhere from $25 - $35 per 30 minutes per lane, per person. So that same 5 people would be $175 for the half hour on a single lane. For the pair, they'd get $350 just for 30 minutes, and $700 for the hour. And that sells.
The problem with Bowlero is that while one would think that they should be underselling the independents, they have already lost the bulk of the clientele because they open so late. Kids with birthday parties are not going to wait until 4pm to have their party, nor does anyone want to wait until late afternoon for them to open.. They would have already lost them from opening so late.
Again, them doing this is an attempt to get some leagues back to get back some of the revenue that they lost outright, because some reclamation of lost revenue is better than no revenue at all.
This new PBA league certification plan is more a brainchild of the PBA marketing team than it is a Bowlero Corporate thing. Bowlero owns the PBA, and the PBA views this as an opportunity to grow brand awareness for the PBA. It is being presented under the guise of a benefit for league bowlers. Bowlero most likely went along with it to appease the PBA and at the same time make it seem like they are investing in their league bowlers. It is all smoke and mirrors. They are rolling out an incomplete program this fall. Neil Stremmel doesn't even start until July 6th. There are no rules or equipment specifications created at this point. The awards program they are talking about is embarrassing (printable certificates, NFTs, congratulatory messages from PBA pros??) Waste of time. They have not even started any discussions with other industry partners. This new program is purely marketing. That's it. It doesn't make the league experience any better or grow league participation.
Can't argue any of this here.
One of the first questions asked of Tom Clark by a viewer was basically if non-Bowlero bowlers would be allowed to bowl in the PBA League Certification national tournament. Basically, the bowlers that either wouldn't set foot in a Bowlero or don't have access to a Bowlero want to bowl in the national tournament. Clark waffled at first, but then basically said they hadn't really thought about it but it would make sense to permit it as long as the bowler joined their association. That doesn't grow leagues, but it does add more money to this marketing program.
There's a lot that they haven't thought about with this, that now does make it sound rather sheepish because they got caught up in marketing hype and didn't bother to think things further through. Now that lack of forethought is going to come back to bite them.
I mean, still nothing on youth, or what and how each location has to modify their hours and procedures to allow their leagues to operate. It wouldn't help any league bowler to organize a league with the center just to show up and find that their league can't bowl because they didn't open the place at the time they were supposed to open.
Clark also claims that each Bowlero will be holding a local King of the Center type of tournament. If they are going to permit non-Bowlero bowlers to enter that as well, the concept of it gets diluted. Again, much ado about nothing.
That sounds more WWE than Bowling.. the more the hype starts to die down, the more farcical it sounds.
BL.
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I could be wrong with the following statement.
If Bowlero has competition in a region (city), when they changed hours and quote "kicked out leagues", I would guess the competition should have added those leagues and revenue. Did they?
If Bowlero owns all the center(s) in a region (city), there was no place for those kicked out bowlers to go.
But centers are closing nationwide. Some cases, their leases expired and the land owner raised the price so much that the center would not have been profitable so they closed. Other centers closed due to the pandemic when business dropped to nothing and even today, the business didn't return to pre-covid levels.
And even cities with competition for Bowlero, those houses are usually at least 10 to 20 miles apart and the casual bowler simply "won't drive across town".
I firmly believe the pandemic forced people to learn how to live in their homes. Get groceries delivered. Restaurants delivered.
Most of bowlers I know that came back after covid are the die hards that have bowled most of their lives. 90% of the casual bowler who maybe just started a league or started bowling in the last couple of years, didn't come back and they won't ever. When I asked why thru facebook or seeing them at a local place, their answer was always the same. I found other ways to fill the time and spend my money.
Again, every participation sport is shrinking. Covid forced people to find ways to enjoy themselves without getting out of the house and now all these businesses are suffering because a lot of people rather just stay home.
As someone posted somewhere, USBC membership is under 1 million nationwide and going down. This isn't going to change. Getting rid of USBC will not change that. Bowlero offering an alternative will not change that. Cleaning a restroom better is not going to change that.
It's never going to be 8 million again. The bowling of the 80's and 90's is long gone. People have so many more choices in what to do with their entertainment dollars and bowling will not rank anywhere near the top of those choices.
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I could be wrong with the following statement.
If Bowlero has competition in a region (city), when they changed hours and quote "kicked out leagues", I would guess the competition should have added those leagues and revenue. Did they?
If Bowlero owns all the center(s) in a region (city), there was no place for those kicked out bowlers to go.
But centers are closing nationwide. Some cases, their leases expired and the land owner raised the price so much that the center would not have been profitable so they closed. Other centers closed due to the pandemic when business dropped to nothing and even today, the business didn't return to pre-covid levels.
And even cities with competition for Bowlero, those houses are usually at least 10 to 20 miles apart and the casual bowler simply "won't drive across town".
I firmly believe the pandemic forced people to learn how to live in their homes. Get groceries delivered. Restaurants delivered.
Most of bowlers I know that came back after covid are the die hards that have bowled most of their lives. 90% of the casual bowler who maybe just started a league or started bowling in the last couple of years, didn't come back and they won't ever. When I asked why thru facebook or seeing them at a local place, their answer was always the same. I found other ways to fill the time and spend my money.
Again, every participation sport is shrinking. Covid forced people to find ways to enjoy themselves without getting out of the house and now all these businesses are suffering because a lot of people rather just stay home.
As someone posted somewhere, USBC membership is under 1 million nationwide and going down. This isn't going to change. Getting rid of USBC will not change that. Bowlero offering an alternative will not change that. Cleaning a restroom better is not going to change that.
It's never going to be 8 million again. The bowling of the 80's and 90's is long gone. People have so many more choices in what to do with their entertainment dollars and bowling will not rank anywhere near the top of those choices.
Again, can't argue any of this. a few of the alleys here in the Sacramento region, and even the Bay area closed up shop because of not being able to afford the rent increase and COVID really hurt them. Yuba City Lanes and Cloverleaf quickly come to mind.
What can be done though, is up to all of us. I applaud the PBA for at least wanting to try something, but in what they are doing it has become more of an episode of eating their own while taking pot shots at the USBC and exacerbating the tit-for-tat they've been having since the Spectre and Purple Hammer issues. They could have worked on this more and better, with a lot more thought, and not try to rush this out before the beginning of the season. Perhaps they (Bowlero and the USBC) should have a look at how the IBF, Japan, and S. Korea are handling things and mirror what they are doing there, because they don't seem to be having this problem: COVID or otherwise.
BL.
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That's not why Cloverleaf bowl closed.
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That's not why Cloverleaf bowl closed.
The owners of Cloverleaf couldn't afford the increase in rent, which was what I was told by the GM there. They even went as far as trying to apply for the SBA relief loan when COVID shut down everything, and couldn't get it. They subsequently tried to get it registered as a state historic landmark, and that failed. They then closed up shop shortly afterwards, taking most of their business and the Hillman tournament over to Dublin.
BL.
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I could be wrong with the following statement.
If Bowlero has competition in a region (city), when they changed hours and quote "kicked out leagues", I would guess the competition should have added those leagues and revenue. Did they?
If Bowlero owns all the center(s) in a region (city), there was no place for those kicked out bowlers to go.
But centers are closing nationwide. Some cases, their leases expired and the land owner raised the price so much that the center would not have been profitable so they closed. Other centers closed due to the pandemic when business dropped to nothing and even today, the business didn't return to pre-covid levels.
And even cities with competition for Bowlero, those houses are usually at least 10 to 20 miles apart and the casual bowler simply "won't drive across town".
I firmly believe the pandemic forced people to learn how to live in their homes. Get groceries delivered. Restaurants delivered.
Most of bowlers I know that came back after covid are the die hards that have bowled most of their lives. 90% of the casual bowler who maybe just started a league or started bowling in the last couple of years, didn't come back and they won't ever. When I asked why thru facebook or seeing them at a local place, their answer was always the same. I found other ways to fill the time and spend my money.
Again, every participation sport is shrinking. Covid forced people to find ways to enjoy themselves without getting out of the house and now all these businesses are suffering because a lot of people rather just stay home.
As someone posted somewhere, USBC membership is under 1 million nationwide and going down. This isn't going to change. Getting rid of USBC will not change that. Bowlero offering an alternative will not change that. Cleaning a restroom better is not going to change that.
It's never going to be 8 million again. The bowling of the 80's and 90's is long gone. People have so many more choices in what to do with their entertainment dollars and bowling will not rank anywhere near the top of those choices.
Again, can't argue any of this. a few of the alleys here in the Sacramento region, and even the Bay area closed up shop because of not being able to afford the rent increase and COVID really hurt them. Yuba City Lanes and Cloverleaf quickly come to mind.
What can be done though, is up to all of us. I applaud the PBA for at least wanting to try something, but in what they are doing it has become more of an episode of eating their own while taking pot shots at the USBC and exacerbating the tit-for-tat they've been having since the Spectre and Purple Hammer issues. They could have worked on this more and better, with a lot more thought, and not try to rush this out before the beginning of the season. Perhaps they (Bowlero and the USBC) should have a look at how the IBF, Japan, and S. Korea are handling things and mirror what they are doing there, because they don't seem to be having this problem: COVID or otherwise.
BL.
In 1980 when Bowling hit peak membership center owners where beginning to face what I call social changes.
It was getting more difficult to get adults to commit and for the long seasons as more women than ever entered the work force. Leagues reducing from 36 weeks to 32 or 33 and eliminating a week prior for meeting and a week after for a banquet did help to stop some from quiting. 9pm leagues getting very very difficult to hold to gether. But this said our sr leagues immune from this and bowling weekly if for no other reason to stay active or yak about their kids, grandkids almost a given.
Aside from social changes many in the industry but a minority strongly believe cheapening the game was causing loss of membership. I believe Bill Taylor to have coined the term "inflated scoring" and having met him for PSO trainning he forged my views that have unwavered over these last 42 years. At age 17 could care less if I ever shot another 300 and it was not even the 80s yet. Us center owners in the 80s banded together by our trade organization (BPAA) met monthly statewide and annually for the industry convention. Those in the minor lost to the louder voices whom a willing ABC kowtowed to and further approved easier scoring conditions instead of protecting this sports integrity and acting above approach (F U ABC you destroyed my sport by prostituting this games greatest scoring acheivments).
What should have happened? What opportunities blown?
Had our trade organization focused on national campaigning, building the sport up from a youth level and getting more center owners to join to have more resource to pool but instead we sat on our hands during the good times. We all just woried about what was going on inside our own four walls and thought all we have to do is make the shot easy so joe beer drinker can pitch the ball anywhere left and hit the pocket he would have more fun. No longer paying to practice needed as national ave increased and overnight local associations bombed with lane inspections at centers for the 45k more honor scores getting shot by chops annually.
Smart proprioters formed our govening body and BPAA what? 90 years ago? I do not think this their intentions.
But what strikes me is while our focus had always been League bowlers and their lineage rates have always been lower than open play I do not see how the argument open play bowlers are "worth more" apply. I guess when our membership was at peak we were stupid by focusing on building sanctioned competive league play? and focusing on a model that promotes it as a sport? We should have kicked out leagues and took out the higher lineage for open play? and like Bolwero did turn it into a recreation?
And while open play bowlers pay higher rates am I the only one here that closed out the bar reciepts for 48 lanes of league bowlers? Am I the only one that sees the lobby full of friends that come in to watch? Tables full of chicken wings and barley sodas not otherwise sold on a tuesday night at 6pm and thinking they should join?
And while some of this saw this all coming since the 80s and could paint a bleak picture can we consider when bowling hit peak membership there was 100 million less people in the USA then than now.
And it is up to all of us...
Secretaries get your teams to ask others to join. I resigned from my team I formed this year to form another and we filled my spot to include an additional sub. While I am out of the industry now, thousands I brought to this sport and this just the little part I can do now from a family of generations of proprioters that built this game and not so Bowlero can F it all up or other lazy proprietors whom just rely on custormers walking in the door. Its never happened like that.
Fun to yak about and no longer care but still boycotting this scourge. Membership tos low for a corporation to play F around and not learn by simply looking at our past mistakes.
And in close, as a parent and while there are more things now too do but what offers what this great sport does?
My choice to not let my kids sit and get fat playing Xbox and becoming social mutants by chatting online or only texting. But rather teach there is winning and losing, competing is fun, competition is healthy with these 3 words... "Lets go bowling"
(ends soapbox)
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Stu Williams interviewed Tom Clark a couple of days ago. Stu made it a point to mention that not all Bowlero centers are the same. Some are better maintained than others. Some are league centric, while others are focused on open play. There is no consistency to them despite being owned by the same corporation. It is a true statement based on my experience. Prices are high, but leagues and the pro shop are soldiering on.
I must be the kind of league bowler that Bowlero hates. I don't buy food or beverages ever at the center. I bowl one league. I don't need to rent shoes. I don't go to the arcade. If I ever open bowl, I use my 2 free games and pay the reduced league bowler rate for the third. Essentially they get only lineage from me and that's it. I am not the only league bowler doing this, but we are definitely not generating the kind of revenue Bowlero would like to see from their league bowlers.
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Stu Williams interviewed Tom Clark a couple of days ago. Stu made it a point to mention that not all Bowlero centers are the same. Some are better maintained than others. Some are league centric, while others are focused on open play. There is no consistency to them despite being owned by the same corporation. It is a true statement based on my experience. Prices are high, but leagues and the pro shop are soldiering on.
I must be the kind of league bowler that Bowlero hates. I don't buy food or beverages ever at the center. I bowl one league. I don't need to rent shoes. I don't go to the arcade. If I ever open bowl, I use my 2 free games and pay the reduced league bowler rate for the third. Essentially they get only lineage from me and that's it. I am not the only league bowler doing this, but we are definitely not generating the kind of revenue Bowlero would like to see from their league bowlers.
And that is why they are about to start "taxing" there bowlers.
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Stu Williams interviewed Tom Clark a couple of days ago. Stu made it a point to mention that not all Bowlero centers are the same. Some are better maintained than others. Some are league centric, while others are focused on open play. There is no consistency to them despite being owned by the same corporation. It is a true statement based on my experience. Prices are high, but leagues and the pro shop are soldiering on.
I must be the kind of league bowler that Bowlero hates. I don't buy food or beverages ever at the center. I bowl one league. I don't need to rent shoes. I don't go to the arcade. If I ever open bowl, I use my 2 free games and pay the reduced league bowler rate for the third. Essentially they get only lineage from me and that's it. I am not the only league bowler doing this, but we are definitely not generating the kind of revenue Bowlero would like to see from their league bowlers.
And that is why they are about to start "taxing" there bowlers.
Oh well. Nothing I can do but bowl somewhere else. But that's simply not going to happen. Not going to spend 45 minutes "commuting" to the next closest center with league openings.
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We have 3 centers in town that just sold to Bowlero. My initial reaction to the news of the sale was negative based on the stories told here and elsewhere.
I typically only see West Acres, but so far it has been pretty good. They brought in several pallets of new equipment to rebuild the snack bar with more to come in other areas.
We're friends with several employees and most were reluctant at best when the news of the sale broke. Most are warming to them now. Lots of employees were worried because they didn't know how to do their job with the new equipment. They've been told that trainers will be there for 4 weeks. I was there last night to bowl after leagues and there were at least 5 corporate trainers there. Things were a little slow but that's to be expected since they had to look me up to verify I was a league bowler since I have not been to league yet to receive my Bowlero card since they took over.
West Acres has a heavy league base. So much so that some of the corporate people were shocked by the numbers. So far, they want to keep that base intact.
I'm a little worried about pricing as I don't know what to expect yet. I'm not a drinker but there were some complaints during the first league night about booze prices. I hear there will be nightly specials so maybe that will help. I don't know if it's just a Bowlero thing or if previous owners just hadn't raised prices because of the impending sale. Inflation is hammering all goods right now so it's likely previous owners were going to raise prices anyway.
I'll give them a chance for now since this is the closest to my house and we know so many of the staff. I'm lucky enough to have a good alternative if this doesn't work out though.
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No company gets it right for everyone every time. In my area we have Bowlero centers with lots of leagues, others that cater more to open play and some that appear to be a mix of the two. I think the longer term challenge for Bowlero is to increase funding in centers where league bowlers see the center on a regular basis and are impacted by the lack of maintenance to the lanes, approaches, pin setters, lane machine, etc. As for the USBC…well Chad sealed their fate with his arrogance and as unwillingness to listen to his customers because he always knows better than everyone else.
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We have 3 centers in town that just sold to Bowlero. My initial reaction to the news of the sale was negative based on the stories told here and elsewhere.
I typically only see West Acres, but so far it has been pretty good. They brought in several pallets of new equipment to rebuild the snack bar with more to come in other areas.
We're friends with several employees and most were reluctant at best when the news of the sale broke. Most are warming to them now. Lots of employees were worried because they didn't know how to do their job with the new equipment. They've been told that trainers will be there for 4 weeks. I was there last night to bowl after leagues and there were at least 5 corporate trainers there. Things were a little slow but that's to be expected since they had to look me up to verify I was a league bowler since I have not been to league yet to receive my Bowlero card since they took over.
West Acres has a heavy league base. So much so that some of the corporate people were shocked by the numbers. So far, they want to keep that base intact.
I'm a little worried about pricing as I don't know what to expect yet. I'm not a drinker but there were some complaints during the first league night about booze prices. I hear there will be nightly specials so maybe that will help. I don't know if it's just a Bowlero thing or if previous owners just hadn't raised prices because of the impending sale. Inflation is hammering all goods right now so it's likely previous owners were going to raise prices anyway.
I'll give them a chance for now since this is the closest to my house and we know so many of the staff. I'm lucky enough to have a good alternative if this doesn't work out though.
This sounds like it is more in line with the pivot that Bowlero is doing with trying to lure the league bowlers back. They know that they need to go out of their way to get them back, especially with the announcement of their certification program. I'd even say doubly so for where you are; Wichita is a huge bowling town, especially with having the Shockers there. I could see the same happening in Lincoln, Smyrna, St. Louis, and other cities where there's a huge community or even a collegiate team there. I don't see that being a problem, as they are now finally trying to put forth the effort...
The problem I see is where the damage has already been done. Those that are all for this program could view those bowlers as "salty" because they got burned by it, but they are justified in their saltiness, as that damage has been done, and they now fall into the category of "once bitten, twice shy". Those are the ones that Bowlero needs to seriously work on to regain their trust, because that trust needs to be seriously rebuilt.
BL.
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USBC does nothing for me. I have paid money to ABC/USBC for decades. All I get is magnet and pens. I am part of the majority of the membership that does not go to nationals. So, if the USBC disappears, I won't be sad. I'll just pay money to the next outfit that fills the void. I don't believe Bowlero league certification will remain free forever because once it becomes the new monopoly it will want to be paid.
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The PBA certification gimmick will be doa. Just a gimmick put forth by the PBA and Bowlero to make league bowlers feel appreciated. More importantly it is an attempt to monetize league bowlers purely to benefit the PBA and their parent company (Bowlero). It's a total nothing burger.
Imagine if they eventually start charging each of those 180,000 league bowlers $10 for membership or to continue to have access to the LeaguePals platform. That's $1.8M in pure profit. Nothing for a billion dollar company, but enough to try and make it happen just to add to the bottom line. Since the PBA branding is so prevalent in this program, I am sure the PBA would be the primary beneficiary of a lot of this potential influx of money.
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I don't believe bowlero will ever charge a direct fee. It will be built into the lineage. Instead of paying a one time fee to get into as many leagues as you want if you bowl more than one league you will pay multiples of that fee.
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For anyone who says USBC does nothing for them...
If there was no USBC, then you would take notice.
Imagine if every bowling alley could change the pins, change the length of lanes, just do whatever the hell they wanted. Does nothing for you? Really?
The PBA has nothing to do with league bowling. Slapping the PBA brand onto league certification is just a gimmick that makes no sense. Bowlero would love to be their own regulating body. That's what this is about. It's so obvious.
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https://www.kegel.net/wpa/2016/3/14/75gx16ac40g3encc4nit7igksgfwie
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There is definitely something afoot with the PBA and Bowlero. When Tom Clark discussed this new program, he positioned it as a way to promote the PBA. When Bowlero rejoined the BPAA a couple of weeks ago the announcement mentioned it was partly done as a way to elevate the PBA.
It is starting to look like the PBA may be struggling and Bowlero and the PBA are trying whatever they can to promote it and keep it going. Pure speculation, but curious nonetheless.
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So i have a question. I bowl at an Independent center in Texas. Some tourneys/travel leagues travel to Bowlero's around the state etc. For me to bowl those events, do i have to be sanctioned thru this and not just USBC or i'm wondering if our travel leagues will have to sanction with this one and USBC also.
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So i have a question. I bowl at an Independent center in Texas. Some tourneys/travel leagues travel to Bowlero's around the state etc. For me to bowl those events, do i have to be sanctioned thru this and not just USBC or i'm wondering if our travel leagues will have to sanction with this one and USBC also.
That is up to the league. Tom Clark said Bowlero leagues have the option of being PBA certified, USBC certified, or both. If your traveling league's home center isn't a Bowlero, then you won't have to worry about this until the program gets extended to non-Bowlero owned centers. Your league can travel to a Bowlero center, but since it isn't a Bowlero league the PBA certification won't apply.
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The phrase "PBA Certified League Bowler" when taken literally means there is some sort of certification process being done by the PBA.
Which, of course is not happening.
The PBA does not certify bowlers, leagues, nor bowling centers.
Doing any of those things is so far removed from what the PBA is.
This whole thing really annoys me.
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The phrase "PBA Certified League Bowler" when taken literally means there is some sort of certification process being done by the PBA.
Which, of course is not happening.
The PBA does not certify bowlers, leagues, nor bowling centers.
Doing any of those things is so far removed from what the PBA is.
This whole thing really annoys me.
This is where their new program has already failed.
They have had a program called "PBA Certified League Bowler" for a few years now at the annual price of $14.95 per year. It is available at any member bowling center that joins.
https://www.pba.com/certified-league-bowler
This new program is the "PBA League Bowler Certification" program. This is the new, pseudo sanctioning program they are trying to create. They should have called it something different.
https://www.pba.com/pba-league-bowler-certification/faq
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The phrase "PBA Certified League Bowler" when taken literally means there is some sort of certification process being done by the PBA.
Which, of course is not happening.
The PBA does not certify bowlers, leagues, nor bowling centers.
Doing any of those things is so far removed from what the PBA is.
This whole thing really annoys me.
For once, I agree.
If you look at it, even that phrase is a contradiction/oxymoron in itself: Professional Bowler's Association Certified League Bowler. If you are a Professional in the Professional Bowlers Association, then you obviously wouldn't need to truly be in theirs or any other association's League.
Or is it just me in that grammar and contextual meaning are getting in the way of marketing?
BL.
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The phrase "PBA Certified League Bowler" when taken literally means there is some sort of certification process being done by the PBA.
Which, of course is not happening.
The PBA does not certify bowlers, leagues, nor bowling centers.
Doing any of those things is so far removed from what the PBA is.
This whole thing really annoys me.
If you look at it, even that phrase is a contradiction/oxymoron in itself: Professional Bowler's Association Certified League Bowler. If you are a Professional in the Professional Bowlers Association, then you obviously wouldn't need to truly be in theirs or any other association's League.
BL.
...not really. I think you're too worked up and not looking at the phrase clearly. League bowler does not itself mean non-professional, so there is no contradiction. I believe the word you are looking for is amateur.
On it's face and absent context, you could say that phrase is appropriate for any of the competitors in the PBA League, and that is obviously neither a contradiction nor an oxymoron.
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The phrase "PBA Certified League Bowler" when taken literally means there is some sort of certification process being done by the PBA.
Which, of course is not happening.
The PBA does not certify bowlers, leagues, nor bowling centers.
Doing any of those things is so far removed from what the PBA is.
This whole thing really annoys me.
If you look at it, even that phrase is a contradiction/oxymoron in itself: Professional Bowler's Association Certified League Bowler. If you are a Professional in the Professional Bowlers Association, then you obviously wouldn't need to truly be in theirs or any other association's League.
BL.
...not really. I think you're too worked up and not looking at the phrase clearly. League bowler does not itself mean non-professional, so there is no contradiction. I believe the word you are looking for is amateur.
On it's face and absent context, you could say that phrase is appropriate for any of the competitors in the PBA League, and that is obviously neither a contradiction nor an oxymoron.
No comment as to Bowlero's chosen prose but what I took from Rebel's overall comment is the PBA is nothing more than a glorified tournamet director.
It should be their only job.
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No comment as to Bowlero's chosen prose but what I took from Rebel's overall comment is the PBA is nothing more than a glorified tournament director.
It should be their only job.
Yeah well, the Professional Bowlers Association's purpose, is to run tournaments for professional bowlers. To create that elite set of bowlers who stand above amateurs.
This has nothing, whatsoever to do with league bowling.
It's just a stupid brand naming gimmick so Bowlero can be it's own regulator.