BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: BrunsNick on November 12, 2014, 02:01:53 PM
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I liked it. It does a really good job of compare and contrast. I'm not sure why the particular balls from the other manufacturers were chosen, and I am sure others will probably want to see comparisons with other balls. It would be great to see how well it matched Blueprint (or other company software) data. I will say that the benefit will always go to the person who sets the parameters of the test, but even to that extent, I thought this was a very fair comparison. Kudos.
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Great video. I would have liked to see solid versus solid balls shown...none the less...great video. I expected the guru to outperform the listed balls on oil.
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Surprised to see a side by side comparison. Figured most companies tried to avoid that.
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Just a heads up, it took roughly 6 weeks from start to finish of this production. The time it takes to order the balls, drill them, set up the parameters, set up throwbot, reoil, set up throwbot, set up video equipment, record cats data, tabulate data, translate data, eat lunch, nap, then edit video into a nice, neat little package is the reason we used the balls that we did.
At the time of filiming, each ball was chosen by the marketing of the competition. It had to be their most current, high end heavy oil ball. By the time of the video release, multiple new high end balls had come out.
There will be more tests in the future. These are fantastic.
(And to respond to tkkshop, each ball was thrown for 5 games prior to tests)
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I wish this was done with every ball vs every ball ever - and with different styles.
Should also include 900 rpm fun! These are my favorite videos.
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Id love an Intellect and Guru side by side. My Intellect was a beast.
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If we did another video today with the Jackal and Crux, by the time the video launches, someone will ask why we didn't you use Crux 2 or Kangaroo? Nature of the business.
No real reason the Mastermind and Feud were not used. This was a Radical Guru vs the competition video, Mo & Phil already knew the Guru would outperform those two as well. It would have been good for reference, I agree, but those ball are not competitor's balls.
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If we did another video today with the Jackal and Crux, by the time the video launches, someone will ask why we didn't you use Crux 2 or Kangaroo? Nature of the business.
No real reason the Mastermind and Feud were not used. This was a Radical Guru vs the competition video, Mo & Phil already knew the Guru would outperform those two as well. It would have been good for reference, I agree, but those ball are not competitor's balls.
lol @ the kangaroo, I like the comparisons tho
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This doesn't say anything. A 1500 grit ball goes longer than a 4k grit Sinister after 3 shots. So after 2 games of league, and some lane shine, how much longer does the Guru go? Any longer and its 10 pin city. And the Crux would have been a nice comparison as opposed to the Zero, given how the Zero is truly a Symmetric ball per Mo himself. I have been eagerly awaiting this video to see what all the "hype" was about. Meanwhile we get a video that shows the Pivot and Sinister hooking sooner and striking, with the Cruel Intent, Zero Gravity, and Deadly Aim all going longer. It is all about smoke screens and mirrors.
Please excuse my ignorance tkkshop, but why does a 1500 grit ball go longer than a 4000 grit ball after 3 shots?
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Chemical Friction is the reason you see a 1500 grit ball go longer and have more angle. The surface texture is built into the structure of the resin and by dialing in one or all of the additives, we can dictate how much and where a ball should hook on the lane.
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This doesn't say anything. A 1500 grit ball goes longer than a 4k grit Sinister after 3 shots. So after 2 games of league, and some lane shine, how much longer does the Guru go? Any longer and its 10 pin city. And the Crux would have been a nice comparison as opposed to the Zero, given how the Zero is truly a Symmetric ball per Mo himself. I have been eagerly awaiting this video to see what all the "hype" was about. Meanwhile we get a video that shows the Pivot and Sinister hooking sooner and striking, with the Cruel Intent, Zero Gravity, and Deadly Aim all going longer. It is all about smoke screens and mirrors.
If I remember right Phil said the reason he didn't put the balls at the same grit as the Guru was he didn't want the other companies to say that he shouldn't have changed their covers for the test so he used them at box finish as they came from their companies. Nick and Phil can correct me if I miss quoted. Thanks Nick for coming out to Fremont CA for the demo day.
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If the other pieces were at 1500, they would be stronger overall. But the other companies' intent was not to push the "strongest ball we've ever made" onto us. That seems to be a MoRich and now Radical thing.
You are kidding right? You do read and watch the videos from every company when it comes to releasing a new HP ball and how they are almost always the next biggest best thing ever.
" will help you create more angle through the pocket. It’s been proven that increasing your entry-angle gives you a much wider margin for error that can lead to more strikes. Think Jason Belmonte or Pete Weber’s pin-action, you don't have to throw it like these pros but that is what you can expect from the Crux."
" It’s all about managing friction and knowing what you, the bowler, expect when you step up on the lane. That’s why your Storm bowling ball comes back to the pocket from parts of the lane where others just cannot compete."
"yields a strong change of direction at the breakpoint, giving you more angle to the pocket and better pin carry. Now who doesn’t want a few more strikes a game?........ by providing a later break point and more entry angle."
"glide through the beaten-down head area like no other, but the powerful backend traction is undeniably Storm........This ingenious design helps turn the corner harder when other balls lag behind. Don’t get left behind; optimize your game!"
"gives me strength and the ability to dominate the lanes through continuous motion and unstoppable power."
"Part of being a hero is having tough skin capable of standing up to everything in your way. My 80H MicroBite coverstock is the strongest Roto Grip has ever developed and gives me unimaginable power. Even the oiliest conditions aren't a problem for me."
"he Defiant Soul provides more length than the original
Defiant, but gives you more reaction in heavier oil than the Defiant Edge. Whether
you're battling medium/heavy or heavy oil, the Defiant Soul allows you to easily make
adjustments to combat the conditions at hand. Lane Condition Heavy Oil"
All from Storm/Roto ball info. I guess marketing is the same for everybody.
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^^^^^^
This.
tkkshop, you seem skeptical of a lot of good info posted. You seem to come at it somewhat distrusting. I see you're on Storm/Roto staff.......do you feel your product is being attacked or misrepresented in some way?
I hope I'm misreading that (and I'll gladly admit I'm wrong here and take that back if I am) but am I the only one that sees this?
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I think this is a great scientific comparison. Eliminate as many variables as possible, be clear about the assumptions and differences, and show the results. If I pick up ball A in box condition, this is what I might expect relative to ball B in box condition. We should thank Nick & others for sharing this with us! I've never seen this before.
No where do they say one is better or worse, they are simply stating the facts...this one goes longer, this one rolls sooner, this one hooks more/less. Just because a ball goes longer and hooks more (or one ball is red and the other blue...or one finished at 1500 grit versus 4000 grit polished) doesn't mean it's better and therefor the study is invalid. If you put out a different pattern, changed the lane surface, or varied the target line, the results would have looked different.
I want to thank them for sharing and encourage to keep up the good work!
Scott
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^^^^^^
This.
tkkshop, you seem skeptical of a lot of good info posted. You seem to come at it somewhat distrusting. I see you're on Storm/Roto staff.......do you feel your product is being attacked or misrepresented in some way?
I hope I'm misreading that (and I'll gladly admit I'm wrong here and take that back if I am) but am I the only one that sees this?
That's exactly what I was thinking but didn't want to say anything to get flamed.
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I must have missed the part in the video where it stated their equipment was better than the balls they compared them to? Did anyone else miss this too because I didn't hear it or read it in the video.
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I think tkkshop has a valid point… the way I see it is the way their comparing balls, are not only at they comparing other top companies' balls to their good ball, they are SAYING THEIR TOP BALL IS BETTER THAN OTHER'S, Their BEATING AROUND THE BUSH with it, look at all avenue's of the comparison's its too obvious.……
I look outside the box…. Great point tkkshop ;)
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Please let me know when someone puts together a video to show that their equipment is "worse" than all their competitors. I am dying to see that one.
I think tkkshop has a valid point… the way I see it is the way their comparing balls, are not only at they comparing other top companies' balls to their good ball, they are SAYING THEIR TOP BALL IS BETTER THAN OTHER'S, Their BEATING AROUND THE BUSH with it, look at all avenue's of the comparison's its too obvious.……
I look outside the box…. Great point tkkshop ;)
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Man, if I could only find a ball that hooks more I would be all set.
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The thing that bugs me is the bubble that says "The Guru has better ball motion and more overall hook than the Zero Gravity"...
That word "better"... that's not scientific, thats opinion. The ball motions are different, and shouldn't they be? You're comparing a 2.55/0.37/0.010 core with a 2.50/0.044/0.018 core. I did not know that the criteria for "better" was more hook. I'm quite positive they could have moved the throwbot 2-3 boards right and blown the pocket up with the Zero Gravity.
If I'm bowling on a burnt house shot, my Boost is going to give me a "better" ball motion than a Guru, correct?
Let's stop pretending that this is scientific video and take it as what it is, propaganda.
And not including the DV8 and Brunswick balls because Phil and Mo "already know the Guru would outperform them".... so before the test they didn't know it would outperform the Deadly Aim, Sinister, Cruel Intent, Pivot and Zery Gravity? right....
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The thing that bugs me is the bubble that says "The Guru has better ball motion and more overall hook than the Zero Gravity"...
That word "better"... that's not scientific, thats opinion. The ball motions are different, and shouldn't they be? You're comparing a 2.55/0.37/0.010 core with a 2.50/0.044/0.018 core. I did not know that the criteria for "better" was more hook. I'm quite positive they could have moved the throwbot 2-3 boards right and blown the pocket up with the Zero Gravity.
If I'm bowling on a burnt house shot, my Boost is going to give me a "better" ball motion than a Guru, correct?
Let's stop pretending that this is scientific video and take it as what it is, propaganda.
And not including the DV8 and Brunswick balls because Phil and Mo "already know the Guru would outperform them".... so before the test they didn't know it would outperform the Deadly Aim, Sinister, Cruel Intent, Pivot and Zery Gravity? right....
Exactly, it was advertising, nothing else.
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Its still a flooded market, the guru needs as much help. I don't even think the other brands even care haha.
Can't wait to see the next one showcasing "back end reaction" featuring a new Rad pearl versus competitor solids LOL.
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Not getting into the marketing thing here, I have a serious question for Nick.
Nick, I noticed that you used the Sinister for Roto's HP ball, but to really test it's validity, why not use the Hyper Cell? It is current, and is regarded as their oil ball.
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I think tkkshop has a valid point… the way I see it is the way their comparing balls, are not only at they comparing other top companies' balls to their good ball, they are SAYING THEIR TOP BALL IS BETTER THAN OTHER'S, Their BEATING AROUND THE BUSH with it, look at all avenue's of the comparison's its too obvious.……
I look outside the box…. Great point tkkshop ;)
I agree. Also, this video could have been manipulated in a number of ways, if I was not there myself to see what variables were or were not compromised, this is just marketing fluff.
As someone mentioned, total propaganda.
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I'm still waiting for the "Perception" & the "Reality" to be thrown.... ??? :P
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Not getting into the marketing thing here, I have a serious question for Nick.
Nick, I noticed that you used the Sinister for Roto's HP ball, but to really test it's validity, why not use the Hyper Cell? It is current, and is regarded as their oil ball.
Simply put, they claim the Sinister outhooks the Hyper Cell. It's even rated that way on their website.
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Actually, I take that back. Misread the numbers, but we chose the Sinister because it was the newest, current line, heavy oil ball.
If we had chose Ball A, people would ask why we didn't test Ball B.
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Thank you northface for backing up my claim… .
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Is anyone ever happy on here?
Of course it's marketing. Every ball video is marketing. That's why they made it. Radical isn't storm or motiv, they need something to get their name out there. They tested as evenly as possible to show that their ball stacks up pretty well against the competition. Marketing or not, they successfully made that point.
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Is anyone ever happy on here?
Of course it's marketing. Every ball video is marketing. That's why they made it. Radical isn't storm or motiv, they need something to get their name out there. They tested as evenly as possible to show that their ball stacks up pretty well against the competition. Marketing or not, they successfully made that point.
Yes they did. It's funny cause if the would have put the other balls at 1500 and they didn't Perform the first thing would have been you changed the surface and you should have left it at box finish. Now I'm not a staffer for any company but I did go to the Radical/DV8 demo day and when I first saw this video (10/21/14) The question was asked "how do you show your product is stronger?" Our answer throw them side by side. And not one of the proshop operators said "but the covers aren't the same."
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Lot of butt hurt people when it comes to bowlers it seems if something isn't how they perceive it should be.
Take out the cartoon figures talking through the video and watch just the ball on the lane and the graphed comparisons.
There is a very accurate out of box comparison of the HP bowling balls at the time this was made. All drilled the same, thrown the same number of games, and on the same condition by a freaking robot.
Most customers that go into the proshop looking for a new big hooking bowling ball usually want the ball they saw someone else throwing on the lanes or they look at price. Because the more the ball cost the more the ball should hook.
They do not care if your HP $229 ball is pearl, solid, hybrid, shiny, or dull. They only care that they "think" at $229 it should be even with every other manufactures $229 ball currently out.
The video accurately gives you that from the bowling balls thrown. Anything else you take away from that is your perception.
I think it is understated the fact that all bowling balls were thrown 5 games prior to testing. Considering that allows the ball surface and track to be adjusted by the lane surface to a higher or lower grit of the bowling balls original starting point. That is very smart and something most bowlers never take into consideration. (or most ballreview members for that matter)
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Lot of butt hurt people when it comes to bowlers it seems if something isn't how they perceive it should be.
Take out the cartoon figures talking through the video and watch just the ball on the lane and the graphed comparisons.
There is a very accurate out of box comparison of the HP bowling balls at the time this was made. All drilled the same, thrown the same number of games, and on the same condition by a freaking robot.
Most customers that go into the proshop looking for a new big hooking bowling ball usually want the ball they saw someone else throwing on the lanes or they look at price. Because the more the ball cost the more the ball should hook.
They do not care if your HP $229 ball is pearl, solid, hybrid, shiny, or dull. They only care that they "think" at $229 it should be even with every other manufactures $229 ball currently out.
The video accurately gives you that from the bowling balls thrown. Anything else you take away from that is your perception.
I think it is understated the fact that all bowling balls were thrown 5 games prior to testing. Considering that allows the ball surface and track to be adjusted by the lane surface to a higher or lower grit of the bowling balls original starting point. That is very smart and something most bowlers never take into consideration. (or most ballreview members for that matter)
Hummm, I don't know Kid, who pays the electric bill for that robot? ;D
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So you suggest USBCs throwbot has an agenda too? Maybe because it is a two handed bowler.......
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So you suggest USBCs throwbot has an agenda too? Maybe because it is a two handed bowler.......
Ah, now we get to the bottom of it. LOL
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So you suggest USBCs throwbot has an agenda too? Maybe because it is a two handed bowler.......
Here along I thought it was just a no thumber... who knew? ???
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Before this video was ever made, a Radical tester and I wanted to do a comparison of the Guru versus a Utah piece comparing hook, motion, and pin carry. I was told that the Guru would out perform in all 3 aspects, but there was a sticking point. He said the Utah piece had to be a solid Asymmetric and the surface had to match. That left the Hyper Cell and Zero Gravity. He also wanted it done on the pattern of his choice. Then we caught wind of this video and decided to let that be the test. I didn't know that the criteria he wanted was going to be used against me in regards to surface and having to be a solid coverstock.
As for the video, take the cartoon characters out with their comments Nd let us see the reaction for what its worth. The Sinister and Pivot look really good, but we are told they won't carry as well because they don't go as long. Well they sure look flush on their shots to me. Marketing is one thing, but deliberately taking shots at other companies is another. Go make a food lane video or something, but do not negatively comment about other companies balls.
Yea, I saw the same as you. Made me think about getting a Sinister or Pivot actually. I didn't get the same "I want one of those" feeling about the Guru.
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So you are smart enough to look pass the cartoons then you are smart enough to know it is still a sales video for a bowling ball from a bowling company comparing products no different then what is posted by car companies or any other business.
In the video there is propaganda, there is cartoons, and there is side by side comparisons. There is no crying. I do not have a contract and would gladly drill and throw a Guru, or any other piece against anything else on the market. I know the ball will not be the difference, do you?
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Before this video was ever made, a Radical tester and I wanted to do a comparison of the Guru versus a Utah piece comparing hook, motion, and pin carry. I was told that the Guru would out perform in all 3 aspects, but there was a sticking point. He said the Utah piece had to be a solid Asymmetric and the surface had to match. That left the Hyper Cell and Zero Gravity. He also wanted it done on the pattern of his choice. Then we caught wind of this video and decided to let that be the test. I didn't know that the criteria he wanted was going to be used against me in regards to surface and having to be a solid coverstock.
As for the video, take the cartoon characters out with their comments Nd let us see the reaction for what its worth. The Sinister and Pivot look really good, but we are told they won't carry as well because they don't go as long. Well they sure look flush on their shots to me. Marketing is one thing, but deliberately taking shots at other companies is another. Go make a food lane video or something, but do not negatively comment about other companies balls.
Yea, I saw the same as you. Made me think about getting a Sinister or Pivot actually. I didn't get the same "I want one of those" feeling about the Guru.
I sold my two Gurus but my friend drilled his and said its the best ball hes thrown in a while. I think it will be popular because most bowlers love hook.
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I know the ball will not be the difference, do you?
SHOTS FIRED!
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So if you like the way it rolls it has a longer shelf life? Guess I do not follow.
No one said the Sinister is a bad ball. You are mad at cartoons in a video selling another brands ball and proceed to make all of the excuses instead of saying initially "hey the ball looks pretty good to me and still struck" you went to surface, number of games, and this and that.
Please do not say balls make a difference and then go to retro crap from the 70's when we are talking about todays equipment and one manufacture to another. That is very lame, played out, and irrelevant to anything discussed.
It is a sales video
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I know the ball will not be the difference, do you?
SHOTS FIRED!
No just a simple fact. The brand equipment is not a factor. That is a crutch many use, but I bowl and walk just fine without them.
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Surprised to see a side by side comparison. Figured most companies tried to avoid that.
I will go back to my original post to the video.
The most important thing I ever learned in sales was not to talk another person product down, but talk your product up. After watching the video I observed that at no point did they say anything negative about the other ball. Only what the Guru did differently.
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I think most bowlers watching the video are smart enough to take the video for what it's worth. Sure, it was marketing, but it's refreshing see balls in direct comparison instead of what a company wants you to believe within the boundaries of it's own propaganda bubble.
In owning the Guru, Pivot and Deadly Aim, I can say for those balls, the video was accurate with respect to the respective OOB surfaces. And it could be argued that Radical was taking a chance in showing the Sinister and Pivot to pretty much match the Guru.
Regardless, maybe a little less emotion is in order. As Nick has tried to point out, no matter what they did, some people would find fault with the parameters. I'd really like to see more of these head-to-head comparisons. It's better than a lot of the stuff we see otherwise.
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Bowling ball are tools to enhance a bowlers attributes...and do NOTHING on their own...no matter what a video does or doesn't tell you
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Bowling ball are tools to enhance a bowlers attributes...and do NOTHING on their own...no matter what a video does or doesn't tell you
Now this I can get behind.
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But what were the ending statics for each ball?
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Don't be that guy......
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Don't be that guy......
First person to (https://www.ballreviews.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frs919.pbsrc.com%2Falbums%2Fad37%2Fthebloodofkonstantin%2Freaction%2520gifs%2Ftumblr_mdg72sKsdL1qef2y7.gif%7Ec200&hash=dfc0cd1f465ec549ff1e0bab4b4df577bed2b1d2) loses.
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But what were the ending statics for each ball?
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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People will be cynics and critics no matter what's used to compare one product to another. You can let them set the parameters and if the results prove not to be in their favor, they'll cry foul, foul, foul.
I've personally asked Phil why should I even consider a Guru as opposed to other pieces out there on the market, including an Intellect and the original Mastermind. I was impressed that he took the time to answer my questions with some of the data that he'd amassed in testing the Guru.
As for the video comparison of the other bowling balls, it pretty much confirmed what I had suspected about most of them. But the fact is that if you like a certain ball manufacturer, you're pretty much going to stick with that company and defend that company until they begin producing a bunch of junk.
I mean, I've gotten a bit of grief among some of the bowling peers I've come to know since my return to bowling in my using Brunswick/Radical equipment. Just about all of them use Motiv and Storm/Roto Grip. Does the bowling ball(s) they use make them that much better than me? I doubt it very seriously. It's my observation that it's a matter of preference for what equipment I use and what they use.
I used to be in the car business. And I remember very rarely you could talk a Toyota/Lexus owner into owning a Honda/Acura or Nissan/Infiniti, and likewise a Honda/Acura owner into owning a Toyota/Lexus or Nissan/Infiniti, or a Nissan/Infiniti owner into owning a Toyota/Lexus or Honda/Acura. They pretty much were brand faithful. It would have to be something very extraordinary to convince them otherwise. I would venture to say it would be the same thing with a bowling ball.
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That shot w/the Deadly Aim..............wow! :P :P :P :P
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That shot w/the Deadly Aim..............wow! :P :P :P :P
Someone alert Dave81644 or whatever his name his so he can come defend Hammer/EBI.
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So we set up a test. Set the parameters. Pick a date so we can have the video available for our product reviews and use balls from several companies that are advertised as Heavy oil balls. It's about a 10 week process. Started the middle of september and several people suggest we are dodging product. One genius even suggested that we new the results before we tested or we wouldn't have had the balls in our test. If that were the case why would we show a great ball like the Sinister who's ball path nearly mirrored the Guru or the pivot which to the naked eye was nearly the same. We took the step out of the norm and did a video showing ball against ball side by side. This is what the consumers have asked for for many years. Our results are validated based on the perameters we stated in the video.
By the way it was confirmed by the testers at Bowlers Journal in this month issue. We received what I believe is the highest hook rating ever. I said I believe. That means I may be wrong but it's pretty darn close.
So in the immortal words of jack nickelson " suck it up buttercup"
Thanks
Phil
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So we set up a test. Set the parameters. Pick a date so we can have the video available for our product reviews and use balls from several companies that are advertised as Heavy oil balls. It's about a 10 week process. Started the middle of september and several people suggest we are dodging product. One genius even suggested that we new the results before we tested or we wouldn't have had the balls in our test. If that were the case why would we show a great ball like the Sinister who's ball path nearly mirrored the Guru or the pivot which to the naked eye was nearly the same. We took the step out of the norm and did a video showing ball against ball side by side. This is what the consumers have asked for for many years. Our results are validated based on the perameters we stated in the video.
By the way it was confirmed by the testers at Bowlers Journal in this month issue. We received what I believe is the highest hook rating ever. I said I believe. That means I may be wrong but it's pretty darn close.
So in the immortal words of jack nickelson " suck it up buttercup"
Thanks
Phil
Go Phil Go! Lol!
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http://content.yudu.com/web/1n360/0A1zs8r/BJI112014/html/index.html?page=30
I have no idea if this will work. It's the link to bowlers journal digital and has the recent reviews. Check out the rating chart from some of the companies that had posted about the comparison video.
Nuff said
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So we set up a test. Set the parameters. Pick a date so we can have the video available for our product reviews and use balls from several companies that are advertised as Heavy oil balls. It's about a 10 week process. Started the middle of september and several people suggest we are dodging product. One genius even suggested that we new the results before we tested or we wouldn't have had the balls in our test. If that were the case why would we show a great ball like the Sinister who's ball path nearly mirrored the Guru or the pivot which to the naked eye was nearly the same. We took the step out of the norm and did a video showing ball against ball side by side. This is what the consumers have asked for for many years. Our results are validated based on the perameters we stated in the video.
By the way it was confirmed by the testers at Bowlers Journal in this month issue. We received what I believe is the highest hook rating ever. I said I believe. That means I may be wrong but it's pretty darn close.
So in the immortal words of jack nickelson " suck it up buttercup"
Thanks
Phil
You say this like you never met us before. ;D
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Who are these guys and how did they get in my room. 😃
Gotta love it. Amazing what sitting behind a computer will let you say.
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Who are these guys and how did they get in my room. 😃
Gotta love it. Amazing what sitting behind a computer will let you say.
I keep saying that. That the keyboard is the new superman juice. People talk crap from a distance and hide when called out.
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I am unsure of who is hiding?
I have to think that given the timing of the comments, it must have been me. If so, some people need to get a better sense of humor.
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I did not mean you. But I never said hiding.
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Phil is right, we have been asking for this video for years....we should just appreciate it and not pick it apart LOL.
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Getting tons of positive feedback from pro shops that are running in the shops all day for their customers. On shop sold three in the first 2 hours he put it up. I guess the shops like to have more than just some guy striking for 25 shots as a sales tool 😎
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I will say that I sold a Sinister and a Zero due to the video. The customer said those 2 gave a nice 1-2 punch based upon what he saw. Thanks.
Wow, you are shockingly salty about a marketing video. Let it go, champ.
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I am unsure of who is hiding?
I said keyboard gangsters hide after they troll.
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I will say that I sold a Sinister and a Zero due to the video. The customer said those 2 gave a nice 1-2 punch based upon what he saw. Thanks.
Wow, you are shockingly salty about a marketing video. Let it go, champ.
No, he's really not. This has turned into a Brunswick/Radical love fest with some users putting on their knee pads and lipstick accompanied with the typical pandering with hopes (I presume) of getting a free ball or recognition from this "newguy".
On top of that, he (newguy) posts in poor tact and shows no decorum from someone who is a figure head with Radical. Then, if you have a qualm with the video, you're the bad guy? Yeah, ok.
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Northface + 10000000
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I will say that I sold a Sinister and a Zero due to the video. The customer said those 2 gave a nice 1-2 punch based upon what he saw. Thanks.
Wow, you are shockingly salty about a marketing video. Let it go, champ.
No, he's really not. This has turned into a Brunswick/Radical love fest with some users putting on their knee pads and lipstick accompanied with the typical pandering with hopes (I presume) of getting a free ball or recognition from this "newguy".
On top of that, he (newly) posts in poor tact and shows no decorum from someone who is a figure head with Radical. Then, if you have a qualm with the video, you're the bad guy? Yeah, ok.
Lol. Yea he has, and you're right there with him.
Sarcastically mentioning how much this video helped him seek storm balls IS a shitty comment, and you know it. Defend him all you want, but I'm not a radical/Brunswick fanboy and from an unbiased view, this thread is reflecting JUST as bad on storm as you think it is on Radical.
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I will say that I sold a Sinister and a Zero due to the video. The customer said those 2 gave a nice 1-2 punch based upon what he saw. Thanks.
Wow, you are shockingly salty about a marketing video. Let it go, champ.
No, he's really not. This has turned into a Brunswick/Radical love fest with some users putting on their knee pads and lipstick accompanied with the typical pandering with hopes (I presume) of getting a free ball or recognition from this "newguy".
On top of that, he (newly) posts in poor tact and shows no decorum from someone who is a figure head with Radical. Then, if you have a qualm with the video, you're the bad guy? Yeah, ok.
Lol. Yea he has, and you're right there with him.
Sarcastically mentioning how much this video helped him seek storm balls IS a shitty comment, and you know it. Defend him all you want, but I'm not a radical/Brunswick fanboy and from an unbiased view, this thread is reflecting JUST as bad on storm as you think it is on Radical.
Stop yourself. I have no "skin" in the game. He made the comment AFTER "newguy" made his. Its reflecting worse on Radical. THEY are behind the video, THEIR figure head/leader is posting in a passive aggressive manner. How does Storm look bad here? Where is their propaganda laced video? Where are the posts from their higher ups posting in a passive aggressive manner? Off principle alone I would never consider a Radical ball now, because I am disgusted with their video and furthermore the behavior of their "leadership". But I am just a nobody "hiding" behind a keyboard.
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I will say that I sold a Sinister and a Zero due to the video. The customer said those 2 gave a nice 1-2 punch based upon what he saw. Thanks.
Wow, you are shockingly salty about a marketing video. Let it go, champ.
No, he's really not. This has turned into a Brunswick/Radical love fest with some users putting on their knee pads and lipstick accompanied with the typical pandering with hopes (I presume) of getting a free ball or recognition from this "newguy".
On top of that, he (newly) posts in poor tact and shows no decorum from someone who is a figure head with Radical. Then, if you have a qualm with the video, you're the bad guy? Yeah, ok.
Lol. Yea he has, and you're right there with him.
Sarcastically mentioning how much this video helped him seek storm balls IS a shitty comment, and you know it. Defend him all you want, but I'm not a radical/Brunswick fanboy and from an unbiased view, this thread is reflecting JUST as bad on storm as you think it is on Radical.
Stop yourself. I have no "skin" in the game. He made the comment AFTER "newguy" made his. Its reflecting worse on Radical. THEY are behind the video, THEIR figure head/leader is posting in a passive aggressive manner. How does Storm look bad here? Where is their propaganda laced video? Where are the posts from their higher ups posting in a passive aggressive manner? Off principle alone I would never consider a Radical ball now, because I am disgusted with their video and furthermore the behavior of their "leadership". But I am just a nobody "hiding" behind a keyboard.
No argument on your last point.
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I will say that I sold a Sinister and a Zero due to the video. The customer said those 2 gave a nice 1-2 punch based upon what he saw. Thanks.
Wow, you are shockingly salty about a marketing video. Let it go, champ.
No, he's really not. This has turned into a Brunswick/Radical love fest with some users putting on their knee pads and lipstick accompanied with the typical pandering with hopes (I presume) of getting a free ball or recognition from this "newguy".
On top of that, he (newly) posts in poor tact and shows no decorum from someone who is a figure head with Radical. Then, if you have a qualm with the video, you're the bad guy? Yeah, ok.
Lol. Yea he has, and you're right there with him.
Sarcastically mentioning how much this video helped him seek storm balls IS a shitty comment, and you know it. Defend him all you want, but I'm not a radical/Brunswick fanboy and from an unbiased view, this thread is reflecting JUST as bad on storm as you think it is on Radical.
Stop yourself. I have no "skin" in the game. He made the comment AFTER "newguy" made his. Its reflecting worse on Radical. THEY are behind the video, THEIR figure head/leader is posting in a passive aggressive manner. How does Storm look bad here? Where is their propaganda laced video? Where are the posts from their higher ups posting in a passive aggressive manner? Off principle alone I would never consider a Radical ball now, because I am disgusted with their video and furthermore the behavior of their "leadership". But I am just a nobody "hiding" behind a keyboard.
I gotta ask what was so disgusting with the video?
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I will say that I sold a Sinister and a Zero due to the video. The customer said those 2 gave a nice 1-2 punch based upon what he saw. Thanks.
Wow, you are shockingly salty about a marketing video. Let it go, champ.
No, he's really not. This has turned into a Brunswick/Radical love fest with some users putting on their knee pads and lipstick accompanied with the typical pandering with hopes (I presume) of getting a free ball or recognition from this "newguy".
On top of that, he (newly) posts in poor tact and shows no decorum from someone who is a figure head with Radical. Then, if you have a qualm with the video, you're the bad guy? Yeah, ok.
Lol. Yea he has, and you're right there with him.
Sarcastically mentioning how much this video helped him seek storm balls IS a shitty comment, and you know it. Defend him all you want, but I'm not a radical/Brunswick fanboy and from an unbiased view, this thread is reflecting JUST as bad on storm as you think it is on Radical.
Stop yourself. I have no "skin" in the game. He made the comment AFTER "newguy" made his. Its reflecting worse on Radical. THEY are behind the video, THEIR figure head/leader is posting in a passive aggressive manner. How does Storm look bad here? Where is their propaganda laced video? Where are the posts from their higher ups posting in a passive aggressive manner? Off principle alone I would never consider a Radical ball now, because I am disgusted with their video and furthermore the behavior of their "leadership". But I am just a nobody "hiding" behind a keyboard.
I gotta ask what was so disgusting with the video?
Its just poor taste to me, showcase YOUR equipment, leave the other companies out of it. Leave these kind of things to 3rd parties, professional publications, or independents, ANY ball company will have an agenda. This isn't to say 3rd parties, etc cannot be swayed with free goodies to ultimately push an agenda. Thats all I got, I'm sure the Brunswick/Radical apologists will be here in strong numbers and in short order and I aint got time for all that.
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I will say that I sold a Sinister and a Zero due to the video. The customer said those 2 gave a nice 1-2 punch based upon what he saw. Thanks.
Wow, you are shockingly salty about a marketing video. Let it go, champ.
No, he's really not. This has turned into a Brunswick/Radical love fest with some users putting on their knee pads and lipstick accompanied with the typical pandering with hopes (I presume) of getting a free ball or recognition from this "newguy".
On top of that, he (newly) posts in poor tact and shows no decorum from someone who is a figure head with Radical. Then, if you have a qualm with the video, you're the bad guy? Yeah, ok.
Lol. Yea he has, and you're right there with him.
Sarcastically mentioning how much this video helped him seek storm balls IS a shitty comment, and you know it. Defend him all you want, but I'm not a radical/Brunswick fanboy and from an unbiased view, this thread is reflecting JUST as bad on storm as you think it is on Radical.
Stop yourself. I have no "skin" in the game. He made the comment AFTER "newguy" made his. Its reflecting worse on Radical. THEY are behind the video, THEIR figure head/leader is posting in a passive aggressive manner. How does Storm look bad here? Where is their propaganda laced video? Where are the posts from their higher ups posting in a passive aggressive manner? Off principle alone I would never consider a Radical ball now, because I am disgusted with their video and furthermore the behavior of their "leadership". But I am just a nobody "hiding" behind a keyboard.
I gotta ask what was so disgusting with the video?
Its just poor taste to me, showcase YOUR equipment, leave the other companies out of it. Leave these kind of things to 3rd parties, professional publications, or independents, ANY ball company will have an agenda. This isn't to say 3rd parties, etc cannot be swayed with free goodies to ultimately push an agenda. Thats all I got, I'm sure the Brunswick/Radical apologists will be here in strong numbers and in short order and I aint got time for all that.
Lol seriously? Is it really cause your entire arsenal is Storm? Or is it because they didn't use food products on the lane to show hook? If they wanted to make the other companies look bad the none of the other balls would have struck.
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I will say that I sold a Sinister and a Zero due to the video. The customer said those 2 gave a nice 1-2 punch based upon what he saw. Thanks.
Wow, you are shockingly salty about a marketing video. Let it go, champ.
No, he's really not. This has turned into a Brunswick/Radical love fest with some users putting on their knee pads and lipstick accompanied with the typical pandering with hopes (I presume) of getting a free ball or recognition from this "newguy".
On top of that, he (newly) posts in poor tact and shows no decorum from someone who is a figure head with Radical. Then, if you have a qualm with the video, you're the bad guy? Yeah, ok.
Lol. Yea he has, and you're right there with him.
Sarcastically mentioning how much this video helped him seek storm balls IS a shitty comment, and you know it. Defend him all you want, but I'm not a radical/Brunswick fanboy and from an unbiased view, this thread is reflecting JUST as bad on storm as you think it is on Radical.
Stop yourself. I have no "skin" in the game. He made the comment AFTER "newguy" made his. Its reflecting worse on Radical. THEY are behind the video, THEIR figure head/leader is posting in a passive aggressive manner. How does Storm look bad here? Where is their propaganda laced video? Where are the posts from their higher ups posting in a passive aggressive manner? Off principle alone I would never consider a Radical ball now, because I am disgusted with their video and furthermore the behavior of their "leadership". But I am just a nobody "hiding" behind a keyboard.
I gotta ask what was so disgusting with the video?
Its just poor taste to me, showcase YOUR equipment, leave the other companies out of it. Leave these kind of things to 3rd parties, professional publications, or independents, ANY ball company will have an agenda. This isn't to say 3rd parties, etc cannot be swayed with free goodies to ultimately push an agenda. Thats all I got, I'm sure the Brunswick/Radical apologists will be here in strong numbers and in short order and I aint got time for all that.
Oh and I'll use your comment "I have no skin in this game." I'm not a staffer for any company.
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I will say that I sold a Sinister and a Zero due to the video. The customer said those 2 gave a nice 1-2 punch based upon what he saw. Thanks.
Wow, you are shockingly salty about a marketing video. Let it go, champ.
No, he's really not. This has turned into a Brunswick/Radical love fest with some users putting on their knee pads and lipstick accompanied with the typical pandering with hopes (I presume) of getting a free ball or recognition from this "newguy".
On top of that, he (newly) posts in poor tact and shows no decorum from someone who is a figure head with Radical. Then, if you have a qualm with the video, you're the bad guy? Yeah, ok.
Lol. Yea he has, and you're right there with him.
Sarcastically mentioning how much this video helped him seek storm balls IS a shitty comment, and you know it. Defend him all you want, but I'm not a radical/Brunswick fanboy and from an unbiased view, this thread is reflecting JUST as bad on storm as you think it is on Radical.
Stop yourself. I have no "skin" in the game. He made the comment AFTER "newguy" made his. Its reflecting worse on Radical. THEY are behind the video, THEIR figure head/leader is posting in a passive aggressive manner. How does Storm look bad here? Where is their propaganda laced video? Where are the posts from their higher ups posting in a passive aggressive manner? Off principle alone I would never consider a Radical ball now, because I am disgusted with their video and furthermore the behavior of their "leadership". But I am just a nobody "hiding" behind a keyboard.
I gotta ask what was so disgusting with the video?
Its just poor taste to me, showcase YOUR equipment, leave the other companies out of it. Leave these kind of things to 3rd parties, professional publications, or independents, ANY ball company will have an agenda. This isn't to say 3rd parties, etc cannot be swayed with free goodies to ultimately push an agenda. Thats all I got, I'm sure the Brunswick/Radical apologists will be here in strong numbers and in short order and I aint got time for all that.
Lol seriously? Is it really cause your entire arsenal is Storm? Or is it because they didn't use food products on the lane to show hook? If they wanted to make the other companies look bad the none of the other balls would have struck.
Cool.....
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If the video didn't have anything Radical written on it people would still argue their perspective and agenda for their brand.
Just like car commercials and everything else when you start comparing product someone will start making excuses for some reason or another because they are "offended" that....wait why is Storm/Roto guy crying again? There ball struck and the cartoon said a point about something on the Radical ball being more desirable. Oh how dare they.
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The video should have had Bruns/dv8...I'd like to highlight that! Why are they not in it?
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this is by far my favorite commercial.
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The video should have had Bruns/dv8...I'd like to highlight that! Why are they not in it?
Same reason I am sure if EBI brands did it, or Storm/Roto ect they are under the same umbrella and are all competing against every other brand. Why doesn't Toyota compare itself to Scion or Chevrolet to GMC? They aren't competing with them selves but against everyone else.
Me personally I would have loved to see the ball compared with the Mastermind Intellect. It is by far one of the biggest hooking bowling balls I have thrown. I haven't seen anything close from DV8. The Schizo is a lot of ball but would be much longer and more controlled down lane. The new Thug is a step down from the Schizo.
After throwing the Intellect I sold my two Gurus without drilling because i do not need that much ball 98% of the time.
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I find this all extremely humorous. For years all the manufacturers have heard was you wish there were comparative videos out there showing one companies ball against another's. We put together a very scientific based test eliminating as many variables as possible and all we are getting is grief and now personal attacks. What joy it is to spend time on Ball Reviews.
Instead of saying its a step in the right direction, we get blasted.
Well we are going to do more videos and we will continue to show the comparisons.
For those that got their butts hurt, sorry.
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I am for the comparisons. I think it gives a good idea of out of box comparisons from one company to the next. Most are only crying because of the comments made in the videos which they deem as negative for some reason.
For many casual bowlers it shows them what they want to see. Many may still get another ball from another brand but they have a much better visual of how it compares to the other brands in the same price point.
You do not need a perfect scale, or a magazine guessing at what the results maybe if you have a throwbot and a lot of time to literally throw them side by side.
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Instead of saying its a step in the right direction, we get blasted.
Well we are going to do more videos and we will continue to show the comparisons.
For those that got their butts hurt, sorry.
LOL... I'm by no means a Brunswick fan, but I love what you're doing. Keep those videos coming.
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I find this all extremely humorous. For years all the manufacturers have heard was you wish there were comparative videos out there showing one companies ball against another's. We put together a very scientific based test eliminating as many variables as possible and all we are getting is grief and now personal attacks. What joy it is to spend time on Ball Reviews.
Instead of saying its a step in the right direction, we get blasted.
Well we are going to do more videos and we will continue to show the comparisons.
For those that got their butts hurt, sorry.
I've never seen any of the other companies make a comparison video. Why haven't they? Phil is right we as bowlers have been asking for this video heck I see the question on the boards asking to compare this ball to this ball to this ball.
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I am a RotoGrip user and don't feel slighted or threatened by the video. In fact, I throw the Sinister (290 first game out of the box on league night) and I still love the video and appreciate the comparison test. I look forward to future videos - keep up the good work.
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I am for the comparisons. I think it gives a good idea of out of box comparisons from one company to the next. Most are only crying because of the comments made in the videos which they deem as negative for some reason.
For many casual bowlers it shows them what they want to see. Many may still get another ball from another brand but they have a much better visual of how it compares to the other brands in the same price point.
You do not need a perfect scale, or a magazine guessing at what the results maybe if you have a throwbot and a lot of time to literally throw them side by side.
I find this all extremely humorous. For years all the manufacturers have heard was you wish there were comparative videos out there showing one companies ball against another's. We put together a very scientific based test eliminating as many variables as possible and all we are getting is grief and now personal attacks. What joy it is to spend time on Ball Reviews.
Instead of saying its a step in the right direction, we get blasted.
Well we are going to do more videos and we will continue to show the comparisons.
For those that got their butts hurt, sorry.
Love it! Keep up the awesome work.
can't wait to see the head to head lower priced stuff as well.
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Thank you.
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Competition among businesses leads to better product for the consumer. That's in Business 201.
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DP3 you are 100% correct.
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Just look at cars now!
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I as a bowler and ball driller get asked all the time how one ball will compare to another. I've told several bowlers that I drill for that they need to watch this video. They don't use any Brunswick, DV8 or Radical products, but this is a great comparison for them to see how their brands roll, reaction wise versus the three products. I try to tell people that the bowling balls coming out of the Brunswick plant isn't anything like they had produced before and to give them a shot! Great video and please keep up the awesome work on the comparison videos!!
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5 star thread !
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I find this all extremely humorous. For years all the manufacturers have heard was you wish there were comparative videos out there showing one companies ball against another's. We put together a very scientific based test eliminating as many variables as possible and all we are getting is grief and now personal attacks. What joy it is to spend time on Ball Reviews.
Instead of saying its a step in the right direction, we get blasted.
Well we are going to do more videos and we will continue to show the comparisons.
For those that got their butts hurt, sorry.
C'mon now, Phil. You are usually pretty reasonable.
You know from common sense and your own experience here and on other sites that you are ALWAYS going to get 3 classes of people:
- those who who will never agree with you.
- those who will always agree with you
- and the vast middle ground who, if we like what we see, will tell you how we feel and if we don't like will tell that and why.
This was a large reasonably (for bowling) (very good) scientific test reducing the number of variables by a large margin (very good) . It had a large number of various brands (very good); could have been more and better, but the possibilities did have to be somewhat limited. The types and models of balls were relatively recent (very good). There was a small bit of advertising but that is also reasonable (some other manufacturers would have made much more of this type of test than you did). Heck, they would have had a whole drum and bugle corps with exploding fireworks. Kudos to Phil & Radical.
(Aside: I wish my ball speed and the amount of oil I see would allow me to use some of the more powerful Radical balls, but my "strongest" Radical is a Times UP Pearl. Wish they would make some lighter oil balls for the rev dominant, like yours truly.)
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Charlest you can't bring common sense into the conversation. lol
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DUDE ! Now that's Radical !! Great job !
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Cool video. I'm a Radical ball user now. I didn't necessarily agree with their conclusions on some of the balls but definitely good videos