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Author Topic: Perhaps the problem with bowling today is???  (Read 2734 times)

SirAshley

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Perhaps the problem with bowling today is???
« on: January 20, 2007, 02:49:06 PM »
Perhaps the problem with bowling today is that none of us can agree on what the problem truly is. Ask 30 bowlers what they think is wrong with the sport today and you will get a variety of answers. It's kinda like in the original Batman, with Michael Keaton, when the Joker was poisoning the town with cosmetic products, lip stick alone won't kill you, but mix it with hair spray and perfume, you're dead.

Well, maybe it isn't the scoring pace alone, but mix it with a walled up shot, newer ball technology, increased prices, poor management, the USBC...LOL, lack of so-called integrity, chumps who think they are Brian Voss in Handicapped leagues, House hacks, 4.00$ sodas, lack of youth participation, and of course, Lesbian Nazi hookers who were abducted by UFO's and forced into weightloss programs... Just making sure you're paying attention. That said, this is more of a poll mixed with a rant. What bothers you most???

As for me, I think there are two areas which could be drastically improved to help league attendance. 1)I really think a the wall shot needs to be done away with, reason, It brings alot of egos into handicapped mixed leagues that should be more fun than competitive, this drives away new bowlers who feel they can't compete, or who are just intimidated by the scoring pace. I think we can all agree that lane conditions, not ball technology, dictate scoring pace... 2) Price and maintanence of the alleys, I feel like I'm paying alot more to bowl, but not getting anything more. The lanes break down more than ever, chewing up balls left and right, the service sucks, management couldn't run a lemonade stand let alone and alley. I'll be honest, I wouldn't mind 6 bucks a game, but for that, I want a working lane, and competant employees.  

Well now that you've listened to my rant, what do you think???
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keglerskave

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Re: Perhaps the problem with bowling today is???
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2007, 10:42:47 AM »
Ok, I'm gonna warn you...this will be lengthy. So get comfortable.

"Blocked" lanes began in the early 80's, back when 20 units of oil was considered a flood and I could oil all 24 lanes with a grand total of 4 ounces of conditioner. Lanes were stripped by hand. The entire lane was stripped once a week and, if you were lucky enough to have a lanesman with a lot of pride and cared about his bowlers, the backends were done again on Wednesday or Thursday...also by hand. We actually lino-dusted multiple times per day to get the dirt off and protect the lane surface.

You want to know where all the high scores began? The technological advancement of the lane machine! Yes, much of it is in the ball, and the funnel shots, but let's be honest. If we all had to still bowl on the lane "conditions" of the bug sprayers and Century 100's, we wouldn't have the scores we do today.

Why? Fresh backends, fresh oil and lane pattern consistency! What makes a high scoring house what it is? THE SAME SHOT and CLEAN backends day after day after day. Who actually has to walk into their home house on a weekly basis and "find" the shot? Heaven forbid someone might actually have to move their feet. You stand left, bounce it right and the backends are fresh and (often) synthetic, which produces a higher, more consistent co-offecient of friction. You don't have to worry about the women's league who bowled Tuesday, or the mixed league on Wednesday, or the Junior league at 4m. Why? Because the house will give you a pristine shot at 6m EVERY day because it CAN.

You think that $7 an hour kid is gonna get the out the towels and mix the stripper and and put on his gorilla suit to strip the lanes every afternoon at 4m just so Johnny Wannabee can play the same shot every day? Hell No!

Our game has simply evolved to the point where the scoring environment, in general, has become a thing of beauty across the country. What if all golf courses were to suddenly install astro turf to cut down on maintenance costs? Isn't that why the synthetic lane came upon the scene? Yes, putting might still be a challenge, just as spare shooting is. But man, could you pick up some extra yardage if you could learn how to keep it in the fairway!!! Read that as, "man, could you learn to put up some big scores if you can learn to just hook the ball".

Now to the big question. What can be done about it TODAY? Yes, I have an opinion. Are you ready? Still with me? Cool....take a deep breath...

 USBC simply cannot govern the lane conditions. They don't have time.

#1 ASSOCIATIONS! Hello? Remember when, after a 300 was shot, the lanes were roped off, the ball was taken out of play, and even the pins were all checked prior to the next league match was thrown? What happened to all that? Now, you get a notice that your lanes will be checked at the end of the month, "so get them ready". Someone shot 300? Better get out the lane machine quick and run pattern #1 over it.

Are your local reps, who actually bowl in the same center, ever going to turn down a 300 there? Hell NO! Simple solution. The NEIGHBORING association reps are responsible for verifying all scores! Oooohh! Wouldn't that be fun? Reps could actually come into a house and INSPECT it for legality! If you are the rep for Association #ABCD, you are there to HELP your centers with their problems and paperwork, but you do NOT verify scores there. You verify the scores for association NEXT DOOR, #QWERTY! Every 2 years, the neighboring associations rotate. Do you think that would produce a couple of rejections? Maybe put a little pressure on the houses to ensure everything is on the up-and-up? Make the penalties VERY stiff and expensive if a house fails an inspection. I can go on over this one...but let's move on.  

#2 The equipment....wow! What can you say? This stuff is amazing! Every ball company makes great stuff with chemical advancements on the veneer and dynamic bowling bombs that impact the pins like never before. What to do here? Easy....Put a MAXIMUM weight allowance on the weight block! Yeesh...forget all the numbers and make it more simple. If the heaviest weight block you can put in a ball is, say, TWO pounds, how dynamic can these things get? Let's be honest. Where is the bulk of the scoring phenomenon coming from? The house player who thinks the "breakpoint" is the 5th frame beer frame. Why can the cranker, who has no idea where it's going, get get away with 15 boards of area at 40 feet? Because no matter where he throws the ball, it gets into a heavy roll (RG) and instead of rolling out when he misses right it flares 27 inches (differential) around the ball. How about the guy who throws the ball with 8 revs? How on earth can he get the ball to hit that hard? Bet it's got a big "B" somewhere over the fingers!

If everyone had to use a ball no stronger than, say, a Tropical Storm (great ball on the right shot), would we see the scores we do today? You bet we wouldn't! Oh, we'd still have plenty, don't get me wrong. But the cranker would roll that ball out because of too much hand from the dry (not enough flare) while skating by when he missed in the flood, and the weaker hands would never get it into enough roll to carry. My God, what would happen to the game if people actually had to practice to get better. Obviously, this would be a grand-fathered process, where each year, the ball companies would ony be allowed to manufacture balls with less and less core mass. Yes, this would take awhile. But it would also give the industry and the bowlers a chance to evolve. People would start to stockpile bowling balls and put them in storage, but check it out. In 5 years, and with all the NEW USBC members, eventually it will curtail the bogus scoring.

#3 (and lastly for now) The PINS! How about we RAISE the minimum pin weight to, say, 4 pounds? Yes, the seniors and the women and kids would lose some pin action, but they aren't the ones averaging 225 and throwing 300's and 800's like they were nothing! Let's cut down the duckpin messengers! Yes, they are fun to watch, heck I even had one the other night and my entire team was shocked! But let's see the no-thumber who averages 230 try and make 4 more of those puppies a night! Now THAT'S entertainment!

Who am I? Who cares! But just an FYI...

 I learned to bowl with rubber and plstic on laquer lanes and shot my 1st 700 with an Ebonite Mag 7 at 14. Shot my first 800 with a Carmel White Dot in 1985. I've been drilling for 25 years and I can proudly say I was sanding White Dots and using exotic drillings while most drillers were still trying to understand why we even needed to drill anything but over the label. I'm a Vincennes University grad (thank you Jim Sullivan!) who has worked within the industry since 1980. I currently operate 2 pro shops and still bowl 5 matches a week, including two in travel leagues because I WANT to be challenged. I'll never get rich drilling equipment simply because I feel guilty charging the industry standards. I learn something new every week because I CAN. I've been a lanesman, mechanic, shop operator and center manager for a national chain. I currently have thrown a 700 in 79 different houses across the country and my only true bowling goal is to get to 100. No, I'm not good enough to turn pro. I'm not even close...

Have a great day, and thanks for reading.

Jim Stem
Keglers Kave Pro Shop
Coaches Corner Pro Shop

VU 1985
FairLanes, Inc
DonTerry, Inc.
IBPSIA trained (and no, I don't agree with it)
AMF 82/70-82/90 Mechanic
blah, blah, blah....BOWLER. period.

Re-Evolution

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Re: Perhaps the problem with bowling today is???
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2007, 10:55:30 AM »
I don't think that the "sport" condition is the answer.
A ratio of 2:1 or less is too extreme for most. Something along the lines of 5:1 would be better especially when you consider the fact that most THSs are in the neighborhood of 10:1.
This should be the minimum for regular USBC sanctioning.
The USBC could create patterns and send them to the centers to be used, basing them on the age and type of surface the center has.
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mainzer

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Re: Perhaps the problem with bowling today is???
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2007, 11:22:14 AM »
I wish the shots would get tougher, all you need is a few extra units outside of 10 and you have a little more out of bounds were the house hacks will struggle a little more and scores will drop off a little. You could make carry tougher also, don't coat the pin deck with urethane the pins won't move as much.
I eat the house hacks for breakfest
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MainzerPower

MillWorker

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Re: Perhaps the problem with bowling today is???
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2007, 08:48:46 PM »
Again... bowling is a business and the USBC does NOT control the money.
The money in bowling lies with the proprietors and the manufacturers.

Proprietors will do whatever the consumer dictates. If the consumers wanted tougher lane conditions and lower scores.. that's what would happen. The reality is they don't. Sure some do.. but the vast majority.. and I mean the vast majority of bowlers want soft conditions and high scores.

You want a tougher shot.. tell the owner or General Manager at the center(s) you bowl. Ask for a sport league.. or just a league with a challenging condition. Get involved in organizing it. Get involved with recruiting people to bowl it. I guarantee you that if you bring the people the center will put down the pattern.

If you aren't prepared to do the above stop whining about how easy it is.

Fluff E Bunnie

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Re: Perhaps the problem with bowling today is???
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2007, 09:33:55 AM »
quote:
Batman, with Michael Keaton, when the Joker was poisoning the town with cosmetic products, lip stick alone won't kill you, but mix it with hair spray and perfume, you're dead.


New and improved Joker products!

Uh oh...  He's been using brand X.
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jd1319

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Re: Perhaps the problem with bowling today is???
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2007, 10:37:54 AM »
The problem isn't bowling itself, it's a society issue.  Very few people don't join a league because the shot is too easy or the scores are too high.  That isn't the issue.  Society has changed over time, and there are many more entertainment options available.  It used to be you maybe would see 1 or 2 basketball or football games a week, now you can get just about every single game of every sport on cable or sat.  People use to bowl in leagues to give them a social life outside of the home, that social life can now be found on-line, they don't need to seek it outside of the home anymore.  Video games have become common place, and kids will get together and play them instead of going outside and playing.  Additionally, commitment is on the outs, just look at the divorce rates.  People don't want to be tied up for 35 weeks.

The real key to saving bowling the sport, is to go straight into the schools and heavily market youth bowling leagues with deep discounts, prizes, etc...  You need to get the kids into the competitive bowling early, so they'll continue on and bowl in adult leagues as they grow up.  Most youth programs focus on the children of bowlers, not touching the majority of kids whose parents don't bowl.  They need to make deals with the school to get the kids more exposure, build up competitive teams in the middle school age groups, and promote the heck out of it.  Plus, offer bonuses to bowlers who put there kids in leagues as well.  If you offer something for free if they join league, people will spend a lot of money to get the free item.  Casino's have mastered that technique.  

Current bowling advertising simply sucks, lacks focus, and does noes nothing to encourage competitive bowling other than say join a league.  Offering free lessons to kids, focusing on how every child can be competitive in bowling, unlike the other sports, and really offering deep discounts to build the long term customer base is the way to go.  The USBC should create some cartoon comercials and run the on the cartoon channels so the kids will want to go, and drag their parents out there.  The current ESPN commercials target bowlers, not the general population, and that needs to change.

trash heap

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Re: Perhaps the problem with bowling today is???
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2007, 03:27:24 PM »
Anyone that thinks the High Tech Bowling Ball is NOT an issue with the sport of bowling is completely wrong!!!

If you put oil out to tame these balls all you have done is forced people to buy a ball to combat the condition. Then USBC changes the condition and manufacturers find a new ball to combat that condition....its an endless cycle....and the game becomes who has the lastest technology for the current condition. Thats intmidation for new bowlers in a league.

Someone joins a league and they want to improve...yeah they need to practice...but now they have to buy all these high end bowling balls also.

Edited on 1/22/2007 9:21 PM
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shelley

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Re: Perhaps the problem with bowling today is???
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2007, 03:47:25 PM »
quote:
If you put oil out to tame these balls all you have done is forced people to buy a ball to combat the condition. Then USBC changes the condition and manufacturers find a new ball to combat that condition....its an endless cycle....and the game becomes who has the lastest technology for the current condition. Thats intmidation for new bowlers in a league.

Someone joins a league and they want to improve...yeah they need to practice...but now they have to buy all these high end bowling balls also.


Bullshti.  How many posts have we seen about "Old ball X still works!" where the poster says he just shot a great set with a 5+ year old ball?  That 5+ year old ball is probably still available in the mid-priced line.  High-tech my foot.  Learn to see through marketing and forget "most expensive==most bestest".

You don't have to buy the latest ball, but if you think you do then either you will buy it or your scores will suffer.  Blame the ball all you like for your (or someone else's) inability to score, I blame the bowler.  The bowler who thinks that just because he's a good bowler (or thinks he is) that somehow entitles him to score high or win the pot/tournament/bracket/...

There's a point where a ball is the wrong one, but that point comes much, much later than most people would think.  "I've already moved five boards, better switch balls".  Should be "I've already moved five boards, better try seven."

SH

TheIronMan

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Re: Perhaps the problem with bowling today is???
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2007, 06:05:26 PM »
quote:
Ok, I'm gonna warn you...this will be lengthy. So get comfortable.

"Blocked" lanes began in the early 80's, back when 20 units of oil was considered a flood and I could oil all 24 lanes with a grand total of 4 ounces of conditioner. Lanes were stripped by hand. The entire lane was stripped once a week and, if you were lucky enough to have a lanesman with a lot of pride and cared about his bowlers, the backends were done again on Wednesday or Thursday...also by hand. We actually lino-dusted multiple times per day to get the dirt off and protect the lane surface.

You want to know where all the high scores began? The technological advancement of the lane machine! Yes, much of it is in the ball, and the funnel shots, but let's be honest. If we all had to still bowl on the lane "conditions" of the bug sprayers and Century 100's, we wouldn't have the scores we do today.

Why? Fresh backends, fresh oil and lane pattern consistency! What makes a high scoring house what it is? THE SAME SHOT and CLEAN backends day after day after day. Who actually has to walk into their home house on a weekly basis and "find" the shot? Heaven forbid someone might actually have to move their feet. You stand left, bounce it right and the backends are fresh and (often) synthetic, which produces a higher, more consistent co-offecient of friction. You don't have to worry about the women's league who bowled Tuesday, or the mixed league on Wednesday, or the Junior league at 4m. Why? Because the house will give you a pristine shot at 6m EVERY day because it CAN.

You think that $7 an hour kid is gonna get the out the towels and mix the stripper and and put on his gorilla suit to strip the lanes every afternoon at 4m just so Johnny Wannabee can play the same shot every day? Hell No!

Our game has simply evolved to the point where the scoring environment, in general, has become a thing of beauty across the country. What if all golf courses were to suddenly install astro turf to cut down on maintenance costs? Isn't that why the synthetic lane came upon the scene? Yes, putting might still be a challenge, just as spare shooting is. But man, could you pick up some extra yardage if you could learn how to keep it in the fairway!!! Read that as, "man, could you learn to put up some big scores if you can learn to just hook the ball".

Now to the big question. What can be done about it TODAY? Yes, I have an opinion. Are you ready? Still with me? Cool....take a deep breath...

 USBC simply cannot govern the lane conditions. They don't have time.

#1 ASSOCIATIONS! Hello? Remember when, after a 300 was shot, the lanes were roped off, the ball was taken out of play, and even the pins were all checked prior to the next league match was thrown? What happened to all that? Now, you get a notice that your lanes will be checked at the end of the month, "so get them ready". Someone shot 300? Better get out the lane machine quick and run pattern #1 over it.

Are your local reps, who actually bowl in the same center, ever going to turn down a 300 there? Hell NO! Simple solution. The NEIGHBORING association reps are responsible for verifying all scores! Oooohh! Wouldn't that be fun? Reps could actually come into a house and INSPECT it for legality! If you are the rep for Association #ABCD, you are there to HELP your centers with their problems and paperwork, but you do NOT verify scores there. You verify the scores for association NEXT DOOR, #QWERTY! Every 2 years, the neighboring associations rotate. Do you think that would produce a couple of rejections? Maybe put a little pressure on the houses to ensure everything is on the up-and-up? Make the penalties VERY stiff and expensive if a house fails an inspection. I can go on over this one...but let's move on.  

#2 The equipment....wow! What can you say? This stuff is amazing! Every ball company makes great stuff with chemical advancements on the veneer and dynamic bowling bombs that impact the pins like never before. What to do here? Easy....Put a MAXIMUM weight allowance on the weight block! Yeesh...forget all the numbers and make it more simple. If the heaviest weight block you can put in a ball is, say, TWO pounds, how dynamic can these things get? Let's be honest. Where is the bulk of the scoring phenomenon coming from? The house player who thinks the "breakpoint" is the 5th frame beer frame. Why can the cranker, who has no idea where it's going, get get away with 15 boards of area at 40 feet? Because no matter where he throws the ball, it gets into a heavy roll (RG) and instead of rolling out when he misses right it flares 27 inches (differential) around the ball. How about the guy who throws the ball with 8 revs? How on earth can he get the ball to hit that hard? Bet it's got a big "B" somewhere over the fingers!

If everyone had to use a ball no stronger than, say, a Tropical Storm (great ball on the right shot), would we see the scores we do today? You bet we wouldn't! Oh, we'd still have plenty, don't get me wrong. But the cranker would roll that ball out because of too much hand from the dry (not enough flare) while skating by when he missed in the flood, and the weaker hands would never get it into enough roll to carry. My God, what would happen to the game if people actually had to practice to get better. Obviously, this would be a grand-fathered process, where each year, the ball companies would ony be allowed to manufacture balls with less and less core mass. Yes, this would take awhile. But it would also give the industry and the bowlers a chance to evolve. People would start to stockpile bowling balls and put them in storage, but check it out. In 5 years, and with all the NEW USBC members, eventually it will curtail the bogus scoring.

#3 (and lastly for now) The PINS! How about we RAISE the minimum pin weight to, say, 4 pounds? Yes, the seniors and the women and kids would lose some pin action, but they aren't the ones averaging 225 and throwing 300's and 800's like they were nothing! Let's cut down the duckpin messengers! Yes, they are fun to watch, heck I even had one the other night and my entire team was shocked! But let's see the no-thumber who averages 230 try and make 4 more of those puppies a night! Now THAT'S entertainment!

Who am I? Who cares! But just an FYI...

 I learned to bowl with rubber and plstic on laquer lanes and shot my 1st 700 with an Ebonite Mag 7 at 14. Shot my first 800 with a Carmel White Dot in 1985. I've been drilling for 25 years and I can proudly say I was sanding White Dots and using exotic drillings while most drillers were still trying to understand why we even needed to drill anything but over the label. I'm a Vincennes University grad (thank you Jim Sullivan!) who has worked within the industry since 1980. I currently operate 2 pro shops and still bowl 5 matches a week, including two in travel leagues because I WANT to be challenged. I'll never get rich drilling equipment simply because I feel guilty charging the industry standards. I learn something new every week because I CAN. I've been a lanesman, mechanic, shop operator and center manager for a national chain. I currently have thrown a 700 in 79 different houses across the country and my only true bowling goal is to get to 100. No, I'm not good enough to turn pro. I'm not even close...

Have a great day, and thanks for reading.

Jim Stem
Keglers Kave Pro Shop
Coaches Corner Pro Shop

VU 1985
FairLanes, Inc
DonTerry, Inc.
IBPSIA trained (and no, I don't agree with it)
AMF 82/70-82/90 Mechanic
blah, blah, blah....BOWLER. period.


Some good points Jim, but I have to add that blocked shots came along way before the 80s. Late 60s is more like it and rampant by the early 70s.
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trash heap

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Re: Perhaps the problem with bowling today is???
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2007, 09:02:57 PM »
OK, a ball 5 years will work on THS. Almost any ball will work on THS. Even a ball made 25 years ago will work on THS but maybe not as good.

Now, Lets Change the Oil Pattern. A ball designed and drilled for a Cheetah pattern is not going to be effective as ball designed for a Championship Pattern (50 feet of oil). I guarantee an EPX-T1, ANGULAR One, so other other super soaker is going to carry better on a 50 feet of oil than old rhino made from the 80s. Why is that? Its not because of the bowler...its because the High Tech ball is an oil absorbing high friction ball with a Core. This ball is going to have tons more punch  at the pocket. Giving a bowler higher strike percentage.

My point is that changing oil patterns is only going to give advantage to those who can purchase equipment as the patterns change. The pros have 20 - 30 balls for a few patterns and these guys are supposed to be the best in the World.
Talkin' Trash!

pin-chaser

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Re: Perhaps the problem with bowling today is???
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2007, 08:26:37 PM »
Not all bowlers are the same skill and not all balls are the same. Infact balls today are the most dissimilar than ever before. Which came first?? The ball or the oil?? It used to be that without question lane conditions dictated ball reaction (subsenquently style). Today balls change the pattern and constantly require "matching up" even in short terms of a nite of bowling.

Good bowlers have skills that tend to eliminate some of this "matchup" issue by maximizing a balls potential longer. But by and large "matching up" has alot to do with scoring as does skill on todays THS. This was never the case in history.

For me, the bottom line is as far back as I can verify lanes have been altered to guide the ball to the pocket. But the BIG difference is todays balls that work "with" patterns to maximize both the ball energy at the pocket and the area on the lane.  Couple that with synthetic surfaces that also maximizes the potential entry angle with lane machines that provide pristine patterns every shift and you have the score pace we have today.

I have not decided that bowlers are better today than ever as some suggest because of the availability of obtaining that knowledge. For sure the knowledge of "matching up" being a requirement for maximum scoring potential is understood by and large by the bowling community and so we trade off practice and skill against the next "perfect" ball.

I have learned from this site... that above all, there are exceptions to all rules. Understanding this, I have learned we have to talk about the majority and not the minority of cases to get to the root of the issues.


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