Author Topic: Personal update regarding the new no-thumb ball rule (Read 13421 times)

squirrelywrath1 · « **on:** June 08, 2014, 08:23:16 PM »

Unbelievable just how many of you failed to read EVERYTHING about the rule changes. Even if a no-thumb bowler has no extra weight hole but just a "traditional" thumb hole in his/her bowling ball - that ball will most likely be deemed illegal anyway. That old thumbhole is now being considered a weighthole, therefore the new grip center will be in the middle of the bridge rather than the middle of the grip span.

This has negatively affected me even though I have no "weight-holes" in any of my bowling balls. I prefer simple layouts with the c.g. at or near the grip center.

I've already spent $20.00 to make 2 pieces of my arsenal legal under the new rules. This was done by drilling the existing thumbhole even deeper to remove excess weight. (I'm guessing it would be considered excess thumb-weight based on the new grip center) The other ball I can't make legal without a full plug & redrill because the c.g. was shifted down a bit so we could put the pin in the ring finger. My driller already tried to re-work it but came up short by about 1/4 ounce. Can't go any deeper in the thumbhole on that one.

(Really, what's a 1/4 ounce going to do on a 15 pound ball anyway?)

Absolutely ridiculous that if I use my thumb for gripping in a particular ball, it is legal. But if I remove my thumb and rest my palm over my thumbhole to roll it, the SAME ball is now considered illegal under the new rule.

USBC, if you think for one moment that I'm going to needlessly spend more money to comply with your ridiculous rule, you are all f*cking crazy. I'll just go find an unsanctioned league to bowl in, so you folks can just kiss my country-tis-of-thee. Have a nice day.

JOE FALCO · « **Reply #16 on:** June 09, 2014, 11:14:12 AM »

Joe Cool .. I see it through your eyes!

avabob · « **Reply #17 on:** June 09, 2014, 01:39:38 PM »

Agree with Dog town. Definition of center of grip should be center of the palm whether thumb hole is used or not. Whether thumb less or not, the ball is carried in roughly the same part of the palm during the approach and the beginning of the release. Whether you use holes to grip or just palm the ball, you are gripping the ball with your thumb and fingers. Suppose a guy opts to use a ball with no holes. Does that mean he has no center of grip? Obviously not. The center of grip is where he places the ball in relation to the center of his palm. The issue isn't the cost, but the can of worms this new rule is going to open in terms of interpretation for multiple scenarios.

Basically static weight rules have outlive their usefulness anyway, but that is another issue.

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #18 on:** June 09, 2014, 03:09:20 PM »

I think it is stupid and it doesn't affect me in the least.

Still USBC changes this rule because it says there is a large number of bowlers who are taking advantage of it when having bowling balls drilled.

My question is simply this....where are all of these bowlers USBC is referring to??

It is bogus.

USBC also can't ask how this differs from bowlers with four finger holes and not being required to use all four holes on every release. They can pick and choose when they use any of these holes.

USBC for some reason doesn't see that as a contradiction.

Actually they avoid it completly every time they are questioned on it.

Dogtown · « **Reply #19 on:** June 09, 2014, 03:30:59 PM »

kidlost2000 is right. I throw with one hand. I can drill a ball with 4 finger holes, a thumb hole and a balance hole. I only have to demonstrate that I "can" use all the finger holes. I don't have to use ANY of them and my ball is still legal as long as it meets USBC static requirements.

USBC could have adopted the same rule for the thumb hole. But that was not their goal.

It DOES NOT make sense that one ball is legal for one and illegal for another because of the style.

Dogtown · « **Reply #20 on:** June 09, 2014, 03:37:16 PM »

The other issue, is that many one handed bowlers ASSUME that all two handed bowlers get more revs and more speed. Those two attributes alone do not equal more strikes or carry. Not all two handed bowlers can throw it like Belmo. Actually, very few can.

Ken De Beasto · « **Reply #21 on:** June 09, 2014, 09:32:26 PM »

Answering kid lost 2000 question somewhat, I haven't seen a two finger bowler drilled yet at my local house nor do I care what his balled is drilled like but my friend who I sold my Brunswick aura to ,had my specs which had 2 fingers holes and a thumb holeand a weight hole. He was throwing the aura 2 fingers about from the 45 board to 19 at the arrows breaking at 6 to 9 board. I know the aura is a strong ball because I was throwing it 3 fingers from 50 board to 25 breaking at 6 to 9 board and all but he decided to plug the thumb hole instead of the lil weight hole and the reaction of the ball change completely. He has to throw from about 20 board to 10 at the arrows with the aura. So overall excuse my bad engrish I think these so call extra weight holes do enhance the ball but do I care about the power hell nah imma still do me. Sorry but the grammar blah blah blah my phone swiping skills on point. Oh and yes fresh oil of course I run the lane machine hueheuehue

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #22 on:** June 09, 2014, 09:42:23 PM »

The reaction change because he plugged the largest hole affecting the bowling ball.

Had he left the thumb hole and plugged the small weight hole he may not have seen any difference.

Also keep in mind it isn't the thumb in or out that generates all of the revolutions for the bowler. It is how the bowler is releasing the ball. As mentioned and demonstrated there are many two handed bowlers that use a thumb hole and generate the same number of revs. There are also many with no thumbs that many conventional bowlers can out hook.

USBC is made a rule to try and correct a problem no one has seen exist out side of what USBC is speculating.

They speculate that a large number of no thumb bowlers are using this to manipulate the ball that others cant with drilling. Has any one seen this first hand? It is wide spread like the boogeyman but no one has actually seen it.

Ken De Beasto · « **Reply #23 on:** June 09, 2014, 09:52:49 PM »

Yea I see what u r saying but yea not in my house 2 finger people aaren't as ccompetitive as 3 finger bowlers so they wouldn't about drilling layouts cuz most 2 finger bowlers just bowl and don't give a bleep haha. They just buy a Ball and don't care as long as it hooks.

Armourboy · « **Reply #24 on:** June 10, 2014, 12:22:29 AM »

While I think the rule is very messy and the whole thing needs to be overhauled ( including traditional style), my guess is that the USBC could simply argue that it may not be a huge problem now, but it could be in the future. If I was them I think that would be my stance anyways.

I mean haven't we had a ton of people over the years complain about how they let Reactive Resin balls slide in and letting it ruin the game? One could argue they are trying to stop a similar problem from occurring.

Don't get me wrong, I think its being done just to massage some ego's, just more or less playing devils advocate with this post.

mainzer · « **Reply #25 on:** June 10, 2014, 01:58:58 AM »

Quote from: Dogtown on June 09, 2014, 03:37:16 PM

The other issue, is that many one handed bowlers ASSUME that all two handed bowlers get more revs and more speed. Those two attributes alone do not equal more strikes or carry. Not all two handed bowlers can throw it like Belmo. Actually, very few can.

well said still have to execute and if you don't you still bowl bad

S-70BreakPearl · « **Reply #26 on:** June 10, 2014, 11:45:07 AM »

I always used the standard layout on every ball I've drilled up over the last 20 years, 2 finger holes and a thumb hole in the ball where it still fits me as if I was to throw with my thumb and some balls even have the extra weight hole. By there new rule, I had to plug any ball that had a weight hole which was 4 of them and either had to open up the thumb hole to the right to take side out of the ball or drill the ring finger deeper. They are fixed and I don't see much of a difference if any on how they roll for me. I found a way around there new rule on drilling up the finger holes and what they want to call my weight hole instead of it being my thumb hole. All my new stuff Now has either 2 finger holes and what I would call a weight hole is now my pinky hole and the hole can be any size you want as long as your pinky can fit in the hole ( did usbc not think that this would be another way around there rule? ) I guess not. Lol. Plus if you have to much side in a ball after you drill the finger holes and thumb or weight hole you can't drill another hole to get the ball legal. Oh yes you can.

1 of my new balls had the cg 2.5" right of my span line and with the pinky hole and a double hole inside my thumb hole the ball came out perfect and it rolls better then some of my balls that had a weight hole in them drilled the same way lol. Ball is still legal by usbcs new rule and like all my other balls other then the pinky hole, the ball still fit my hand as if I was to throw it with my thumb in the ball. Ball has 3 finger holes and a weight hole instead of a thumb hole and on the scale it's under 3/4 top and 3/4 side. I have 62 perfect games with out my thumb zero with and 18 800 sets with out zero with. I didn't have to change the way I throw the ball or my game at all, I just had to manipulate how I can drill up equipment now. Usbc should of just made the new rule that your CG would have to be with in 1" of your grip Center line with no weight holes allowed. That would of fixed it for every bowler out there but that would be to easy of a fix... thanks usbc for making me think out side the box

johns811 · « **Reply #27 on:** June 10, 2014, 11:45:39 AM »

Quote from: squirrelywrath1 on June 09, 2014, 05:59:10 AM

Quote from: johns811 on June 09, 2014, 03:21:48 AM
If you don't use the thumb hole drill it wider to take the weight out.

Sorry, I should have clarified - I DO use the thumbhole on this particular ball if the lanes aren't allowing me to get in and open them up. So, I'm kinda stuck on this one.

And Ken, yes I've already spent $20 on fixing things up. But lets not forget the extra $45 if I have to plug & redrill the other one. A total of $65 may be chump change for you, but it's not for me. Not to mention the 1 hour round trip to my ball driller which is bit of a hassle.

One of my buddies is another no-thumb bowler and he told me that he was ALREADY called on on this very rule bowling in a local tournament. Someone there just couldn't wait to get on his case about it, but forgot the rule doesn't apply until August 1st.

Put in a switch grip, then remove it for no thumb!

TWOHAND834 · « **Reply #28 on:** June 10, 2014, 05:43:00 PM »

Its not the $20.00 to fix a ball or two I am upset about. It is the $2,000 worth of equipment I have that now USBC says is illegal that is going to cost an additional $300+ to plug and redrill. It is the $200 ball I just drilled less than 2 months ago that is now considered illegal.

The people who think it is such a great rule are the ones that dont have to fork out more money out of their wallet. Considering that surface dictates ball motion more than anything; the rule pretty much did nothing in terms of ball reaction manipulation as you could just about change the surface to counteract the taking away of a side weight hole. It wont be exact. But it can be close. All this rule did; was shut up the whiners who think two handers/no thumbers have an advantage over someone who does use a thumb.

This is why the rule is ridiculous. The highest rev rate for a very long time was Robert Smith. He could generate over 600rpms. Another high rev guy that used a thumb was Rudy Kasimakis. If rev rate alone gains some sort of any advantage; then explain how is it that they are nowhere near pushing Walter Ray for most titles. In fact; does either even have 10 titles? If no thumbing is such an advantage; how come Mike Miller doesnt have a bunch of titles? How come Osku isnt pushing 10 titles yet?

northface28 · « **Reply #29 on:** June 10, 2014, 08:47:34 PM »

Quote from: TWOHAND834 on June 10, 2014, 05:43:00 PM

Its not the $20.00 to fix a ball or two I am upset about. It is the $2,000 worth of equipment I have that now USBC says is illegal that is going to cost an additional $300+ to plug and redrill. It is the $200 ball I just drilled less than 2 months ago that is now considered illegal.

The people who think it is such a great rule are the ones that dont have to fork out more money out of their wallet. Considering that surface dictates ball motion more than anything; the rule pretty much did nothing in terms of ball reaction manipulation as you could just about change the surface to counteract the taking away of a side weight hole. It wont be exact. But it can be close. All this rule did; was shut up the whiners who think two handers/no thumbers have an advantage over someone who does use a thumb.

This is why the rule is ridiculous. The highest rev rate for a very long time was Robert Smith. He could generate over 600rpms. Another high rev guy that used a thumb was Rudy Kasimakis. If rev rate alone gains some sort of any advantage; then explain how is it that they are nowhere near pushing Walter Ray for most titles. In fact; does either even have 10 titles? If no thumbing is such an advantage; how come Mike Miller doesnt have a bunch of titles? How come Osku isnt pushing 10 titles yet?

Its kind of ironic the general bowling public was force fed Jason Belmonte and his "revolutionary two handed style", now, USBC is trying to "tame" the beast they created with all this two handed stuff. What buffoonery on USBC's part.

squirrelywrath1 · « **Reply #30 on:** June 11, 2014, 06:01:27 AM »

""This is why the rule is ridiculous. The highest rev rate for a very long time was Robert Smith. He could generate over 600rpms. Another high rev guy that used a thumb was Rudy Kasimakis. If rev rate alone gains some sort of any advantage; then explain how is it that they are nowhere near pushing Walter Ray for most titles. In fact; does either even have 10 titles? If no thumbing is such an advantage; how come Mike Miller doesnt have a bunch of titles? How come Osku isnt pushing 10 titles yet?""

Well said there Mr. TwoHand. No-thumbing or two-hand is only an advantage if the bowler is good enough to keep in under control. (Which I am not).

Kinda funny that I first saw bowlers using the technique way back in 1986. I don't recall anyone making a fuss about it then. Only now we have Belmo doing quite well at the highest level - now people seem to want to tame him and others like him down.

Author Topic: Personal update regarding the new no-thumb ball rule (Read 13421 times)

squirrelywrath1

Personal update regarding the new no-thumb ball rule

JOE FALCO

Re: Personal update regarding the new no-thumb ball rule

avabob

Re: Personal update regarding the new no-thumb ball rule

kidlost2000

Re: Personal update regarding the new no-thumb ball rule

Dogtown

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Dogtown

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Ken De Beasto

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kidlost2000

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Ken De Beasto

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Armourboy

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mainzer

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S-70BreakPearl

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johns811

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TWOHAND834

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northface28

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squirrelywrath1

Re: Personal update regarding the new no-thumb ball rule