Author Topic: Pro Shops vs Online Stores (Read 10279 times)

Jeff Carter · « **on:** August 27, 2006, 09:17:58 AM »

Let the debate begin !!! Im interested in some opinions as to why so many people use online stores for their equipment instead of local Pro Shops. This is a topic that we discuss regularly and i'd like to get some opinions from around the country

On the Pro Shop side ( which im a part of ) - pros :
Face to Face customer service
No hidden shipping / drilling fees ( at least in our case )
If there is a problem, we take care of it
Professional service - the guy on the other end of the phone doesnt know you

Id like to hear all comments good and bad
--------------------
Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com

jls · « **Reply #46 on:** August 29, 2006, 11:26:51 AM »

djarum, first, as for that statement that pro shops can't get equipment for the same price as online dealers!!!!

most of the biggest online dealers, are DIST. when you place an order online,
it is sent to one of the 6 or 7 dist. who service certain online dealers.
these dist. are playing both ends against the middle.

they sell to pro shops and then they back certain online dealers. so of course
the online dealer is getting a better price. because he is really a front for certain dist.

sooner or later the pro shops that buy from these dist. will find out who they are and what they are doing. and then stop buying from the dirty 6, actually 7.

there are many good dist. out there who service pro shops only.

--------------------
jls31316

RSalas · « **Reply #47 on:** August 29, 2006, 11:33:49 AM »

I would use the local pro shop if I didn't already have a drill press in the garage.

What motivated me to buy the press in the first place is that, at the time, there wasn't a ball driller within 30 miles of my house who was both knowledgeable about equipment and drillings and capable of repeating work. Sure enough, not long after I bought my setup, we get a great pro shop operator in town. Go figure.
--------------------
...formerly "The Curse of Dusty," and "PoÃ¶ter BoÃ¶f" before that...

Jorge300 · « **Reply #48 on:** August 29, 2006, 11:44:15 AM »

quote:
The fact is that we have become a "Wal-Mart Nation" , shopping based on price and not quality or service.

If the manufacturers hadn't de-valued their products by selling to internet retailers or distibutors who sell to internet retailers in the first place., we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Now everyone who uses the internet can figure out how much a ball actually costs us Pro Shop owners just by looking at the "Sale" price online.

What makes it worse it that every ball manufacturer is going to raise their prices this and every season , passing along the higher cost of goods sold to the business owner, while the consumer can buy the same ball for sometimes less than what I can get it for.
--------------------
Jon Brandon
Columbia Regional Staff 04-06
2003 PBA West Region Rookie of the Year
"You don't score, until you score......"

Jon, as a pro shop owner I know you are trying make money and feed your family as best as you can. But Why would anyone spend an extra $100 to buy the ball from you when they can get it online and then have it drilled by you? If there is a small difference in price, I normally side with the Pro Shop, and have them order and drill the ball. But, when the price differences grow, how can you fault someone for trying to save a little money? They are trying to enjoy the sport they love without going broke doing so. Is it the Pro Shop owner's fault, no. They have to pay the distributor his mark-up and then have their own mark-up on the ball in order to survive. But please don't make it out to be that these people are doing something wrong by doing this. Maybe it's this kind of attitude that is driving people to the internet instead your pro shop?

And if the Pro Shop owner is any good, he will still watch you, mark your PMP, and discuss layouts with you if you schedule an appointment with them, regardless of where you got the ball. If he is unwilling to do so, then maybe you need to find a new Pro Shop.

--------------------
Jorge300

"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"

kmanestor22 · « **Reply #49 on:** August 29, 2006, 12:52:14 PM »

quote:
The proshop I go to has just increased prices about 10 percent. I don't buy a ton of balls, but I always purchased from the shop. The driller drills a comfortable ball, but he has no clue when it comes to layouts. I may for the first time this season buy from an online retailer, and have him drill it at whatever his new price for drilling is. For example, the Strike Zone was 170 drilled at the end of the season. In the middle of the summer he went up to 185. Now he wants 208 for it. That particular ball has actually gone up more than 10 percent, but most other equipment has gone up about 10-20 dollars.

Dj
--------------------
The views and opinions of Djarum expressed on BallReviews.com do not necessarily state or reflect those of the BallReviews.com.

Ball prices from distributors go up too! The BVP line went up a couple bucks so the price the shops asks is gonna go up too. They don't raise prices just to screw customers. The prices are set to maximize profit. If the price is too high, customers won't buy it. If it's too low, they won't make enough to cover the overhead. If they are trying to keep their business afloat, then gouging the customers wouldn't be in the best interest when they know they could just go elsewhere.
--------------------
Where is the bait? I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer

Pinbuster · « **Reply #50 on:** August 29, 2006, 01:02:22 PM »

The thing so many seem to forget in order to get where you can have an online supplier supply your equipment someone had to measure and drill your specs that you are currently happy with.

The proshop cannot charge a first time ball purchase $200 for fitting a ball.

They use to figure to get that back over time as more balls were purchased so they have averaged out the cost per ball over the customer base.

But now it is becoming more and more prevalent that they only sell the one ball.

They need so much revenue in order to pay the bills and stay in business.

You are now seeing fewer and fewer houses with proshops. Many are only run a few hours a day by whatever staff is in the house at the time.

Where are you going to go with a problem when most go out of business?

And don't do what a lot of our customers would do in come in, look at balls, get advice on the ball and then go to the net.

Sure you can give some discounts to really good customers because they are in most cases easier to drill for because the work is already done. But I have found once you start giving one a discount all expect it regardless of how much equipment they buy.

On the 100% markup, few proshops get that but you would be amazed at the number of businesses that it is the standard markup on goods. We probably averaged around 65% of the selling price was the ball and 35% was markup.

jls · « **Reply #51 on:** August 29, 2006, 01:54:34 PM »

This talk of saving a $100 is over rated.
if a ball is selling on line for $139 UNDRILLED.
and the same ball in a pro shop is $200 DRILLED.

When you do simple math, after paying for drilling, lets say $40.
lets see what we have, carry the one, = about $179, and sometimes there is freight to consider.

SOUNDS TO ME LIKE A $20 SAVINGS.

i know a lot of you's are college grads, in computor science.
but did you attend any math classes?

and of course this other talk of
my driller charges me $25, with inserts, slugs and a coupon for a monica visit.
ya right!!!!!!!!!!!!!

go online right now and price one of the two hottest balls out.
the black window and the infinite one.
i dare anyone to tell me they can get those balls for a savings of $100 after drilling.

talk is cheap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--------------------
jls31316

Edited on 8/29/2006 1:49 PM

golfnutFL · « **Reply #52 on:** August 29, 2006, 02:06:28 PM »

quote:
This talk of saving a $100 is over rated.
if a ball is selling on line for $139 UNDRILLED.
and the same ball in a pro shop is $200 DRILLED.

When you do simple math, after paying for drilling, lets say $40.
lets see what we have, carry the one, = about $179, and sometimes there is freight to consider.

SOUNDS TO ME LIKE A $20 SAVINGS.

i know a lot of you's are college grads, in computor science.
but did you attend any math classes?

and of course this other talk of
my driller charges me $25, with inserts, slugs and a coupon for a monica visit.
ya right!!!!!!!!!!!!!

go online right now and price one of the two hottest balls out.
the black window and the infinite one.
i dare anyone to tell me they can get those balls for a savings of $100 after drilling.

talk is cheap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--------------------
jls31316

Edited on 8/29/2006 1:49 PM

Infinite One, $142.50 from Buddies. $45 drilling, I supply grips/slugs which cost me about $6. Total=$193.50

Local Pro Shop Price=$229.99 plus $22 for grips and slugs plus FL 6% tax=$267.11

Total savings= $73.61

Not $100 but I'll choose to keep the $73 for myself, thanks.
--------------------
Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.

jls · « **Reply #53 on:** August 29, 2006, 02:12:14 PM »

i have done your homework for all of you computor science majors.

bowlerparadise.com black widow, $118.99, PLUS SHIPPING
infinite one $124.99, plus shipping

buddies, black widow, $126.50, free shipping.
infinite one $142.50, free shipping.

bowling.com, black widow, $124.99, free shipping,
infinite one $134.99, free shipping.

pro shop price on black widow, $179.95 DRILLED
pro shop price on infinite one $199.95 DRILLED

Now it appears that bowling.com at $124.99 is the best deal on the black widow.
factor in drilling by a real pro shop at about $40.00 comes to $164.99
that's a savings of $15.00

i am not going to fast for you am i???

now it once again appears that bowling.com at $134.99 has the best deal on the infinite one. factor in drilling by a real pro shop at $40.00, comes to
$174.99. a savings of $25.00.

NOW WHERE IS THAT "TRY LIKE A HUNDRED DOLLARS SAVED" by simple math,
i just don't see it.

but then again i am not a computer science major.

so gag me with a spoon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

that's valley talk for all of you "try like a hundred" types.

talk is cheap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--------------------
jls31316

Raven829 · « **Reply #54 on:** August 29, 2006, 02:44:26 PM »

quote:
i have done your homework for all of you computor science majors.

bowlerparadise.com black widow, $118.99, PLUS SHIPPING
infinite one $124.99, plus shipping

buddies, black widow, $126.50, free shipping.
infinite one $142.50, free shipping.

bowling.com, black widow, $124.99, free shipping,
infinite one $134.99, free shipping.

pro shop price on black widow, $179.95 DRILLED
pro shop price on infinite one $199.95 DRILLED

Now it appears that bowling.com at $124.99 is the best deal on the black widow.
factor in drilling by a real pro shop at about $40.00 comes to $164.99
that's a savings of $15.00

i am not going to fast for you am i???

now it once again appears that bowling.com at $134.99 has the best deal on the infinite one. factor in drilling by a real pro shop at $40.00, comes to
$174.99. a savings of $25.00.

NOW WHERE IS THAT "TRY LIKE A HUNDRED DOLLARS SAVED" by simple math,
i just don't see it.

but then again i am not a computer science major.

so gag me with a spoon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

that's valley talk for all of you "try like a hundred" types.

talk is cheap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I could never save 100 by buying online. The problem with your argument is that prices vary around the country. Not everyone can get a Widow for 180 drilled at the shop. I sure as hell can't. The other thing is that savings in the 50 dollar range, which is quite possible anywhere, is significant.

Don
--------------------
"On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage. Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me. The problem we have to address more than anything is the home run problem."
~Dusty Baker being a total fool

Robadat · « **Reply #55 on:** August 29, 2006, 02:57:01 PM »

jls
The prices you've put up for your Pro Shop are reasonable. I think most people on here would jump on them. I've seen locally in NY prices for those two balls upwards of $250 drilled w/ slugs, grips etc. at various pro shops. That is a big difference. Add in the fact that many local pro shops do not provide the proper service (layout options, surface prep, etc.) and charge those higher prices, and I understand why they buy On-line.

Bob

se7en · « **Reply #56 on:** August 29, 2006, 03:49:28 PM »

The internet has forced many retailers to jump on board. You can look at Best Buy and Walmarts website to get an idea.

Remember the internet's early days, where phone companies felt threatened? All of a sudden, AT&T, Sprint, etc. were offering internet services.

When it comes to certain items, I'd rather drive to the store and have it in my hands immediatley. If the difference in cost is great enough, I will buy online and wait. It's that simple. If a pro shop wants to charge 200$ for a ball I can buy for 130$ with free shipping, it's a no-brainer.
--------------------
Elite P43 - 16#
Lane #1 Cobalt Bomb - 15#
Track Machine 15#

Djarum · « **Reply #57 on:** August 29, 2006, 03:56:32 PM »

quote:
This talk of saving a $100 is over rated.
if a ball is selling on line for $139 UNDRILLED.
and the same ball in a pro shop is $200 DRILLED.

When you do simple math, after paying for drilling, lets say $40.
lets see what we have, carry the one, = about $179, and sometimes there is freight to consider.

SOUNDS TO ME LIKE A $20 SAVINGS.

i know a lot of you's are college grads, in computor science.
but did you attend any math classes?

and of course this other talk of
my driller charges me $25, with inserts, slugs and a coupon for a monica visit.
ya right!!!!!!!!!!!!!

go online right now and price one of the two hottest balls out.
the black window and the infinite one.
i dare anyone to tell me they can get those balls for a savings of $100 after drilling.

talk is cheap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--------------------
jls31316

Edited on 8/29/2006 1:49 PM

A 139 dollar ball at my proshop is 245 drilled. He used to charge 50 bucks for a blank drill. That means the ball is really worth 195.

Dj
--------------------
The views and opinions of Djarum expressed on BallReviews.com do not necessarily state or reflect those of the BallReviews.com.

Djarum · « **Reply #58 on:** August 29, 2006, 03:58:21 PM »

quote:
i have done your homework for all of you computor science majors.

bowlerparadise.com black widow, $118.99, PLUS SHIPPING
infinite one $124.99, plus shipping

buddies, black widow, $126.50, free shipping.
infinite one $142.50, free shipping.

bowling.com, black widow, $124.99, free shipping,
infinite one $134.99, free shipping.

pro shop price on black widow, $179.95 DRILLED
pro shop price on infinite one $199.95 DRILLED

Now it appears that bowling.com at $124.99 is the best deal on the black widow.
factor in drilling by a real pro shop at about $40.00 comes to $164.99
that's a savings of $15.00

i am not going to fast for you am i???

now it once again appears that bowling.com at $134.99 has the best deal on the infinite one. factor in drilling by a real pro shop at $40.00, comes to
$174.99. a savings of $25.00.

NOW WHERE IS THAT "TRY LIKE A HUNDRED DOLLARS SAVED" by simple math,
i just don't see it.

but then again i am not a computer science major.

so gag me with a spoon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

that's valley talk for all of you "try like a hundred" types.

talk is cheap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--------------------
jls31316

Black widow is 209 at my proshop, not 179, infanite one is 245 drilled.

jsl, those prices are cheaper than most you are quoteing.

Dj
--------------------
The views and opinions of Djarum expressed on BallReviews.com do not necessarily state or reflect those of the BallReviews.com.

jls · « **Reply #59 on:** August 29, 2006, 04:48:52 PM »

Very true, not all pro shops are selling a black widow for $179, and not all pro shop are selling a top line model for $230.

we try to price our balls in line with what you can buy a ball for "undrilled"
online. in most cases we will be "on average about $20 higher after you apply a drilling charge.

i would not blame anyone for not buying a ball for $230. i have been know to buy a golf club online. there is nothing wrong with saving money!!!!

however, some people confuse closeouts which they may have bought for a real low price, and then compare them to a brand new release.
example, a 2 year old classic zone for $45. does not compare to a brand new radical inferno for $199. online that radical may be around $130-$139.
that's where that "try like a hundred" statement comes in.

how does one compare a 2 year old pos, to a brand new release.
now at $45 that classic zone is a deal???, but why is it at $45???
because it did not sell!!!!! that would be my guess.
if sir mega could buy a new radical for $45, please call me, i will order some for myself. but you can't,
so therefore $130-$139 plus drilling comes to maybe $180. that about $20
savings in my book.

i am sorry to hear that some of your pro shops are charging so much!!!!
i don't blame you for not buying a ball there!!!!! i wouldn't either.
but if a pro shop can stay within $20. i think that's not a bad deal.

example, today we drill 4 outside balls, all four had the wrong pins for what the customer's wanted. now if a pro shop was selling them the ball, and knew what drilling they wanted, he would try to match up the pin. at least, that's what we do.

also, when you buy online, many times customer's get the wrong idea of what a ball will do. when you buy at a pro shop, i would hope your questions would be answered, and you get the right info.
does anyone remember the "one" most people who bought it online thought it was for heavy oil. "not in this lifetime" maybe a few could move it in oil.
but if it was a hook monster in heavy oil, then why did ebonite come out with the big one and the infinite one?

??

please don't get me wrong, i have nothing against people getting a good deal online. if it's really agood deal. just don't confuse 2 year old models that don't sell with brand new release's

take care
--------------------
jls31316

Jorge300 · « **Reply #60 on:** August 29, 2006, 07:18:29 PM »

quote:
Very true, not all pro shops are selling a black widow for $179, and not all pro shop are selling a top line model for $230.

we try to price our balls in line with what you can buy a ball for "undrilled"
online. in most cases we will be "on average about $20 higher after you apply a drilling charge.

i would not blame anyone for not buying a ball for $230. i have been know to buy a golf club online. there is nothing wrong with saving money!!!!

however, some people confuse closeouts which they may have bought for a real low price, and then compare them to a brand new release.
example, a 2 year old classic zone for $45. does not compare to a brand new radical inferno for $199. online that radical may be around $130-$139.
that's where that "try like a hundred" statement comes in.

how does one compare a 2 year old pos, to a brand new release.
now at $45 that classic zone is a deal???, but why is it at $45???
because it did not sell!!!!! that would be my guess.
if sir mega could buy a new radical for $45, please call me, i will order some for myself. but you can't,
so therefore $130-$139 plus drilling comes to maybe $180. that about $20
savings in my book.

i am sorry to hear that some of your pro shops are charging so much!!!!
i don't blame you for not buying a ball there!!!!! i wouldn't either.
but if a pro shop can stay within $20. i think that's not a bad deal.

example, today we drill 4 outside balls, all four had the wrong pins for what the customer's wanted. now if a pro shop was selling them the ball, and knew what drilling they wanted, he would try to match up the pin. at least, that's what we do.

also, when you buy online, many times customer's get the wrong idea of what a ball will do. when you buy at a pro shop, i would hope your questions would be answered, and you get the right info.
does anyone remember the "one" most people who bought it online thought it was for heavy oil. "not in this lifetime" maybe a few could move it in oil.
but if it was a hook monster in heavy oil, then why did ebonite come out with the big one and the infinite one???

please don't get me wrong, i have nothing against people getting a good deal online. if it's really agood deal. just don't confuse 2 year old models that don't sell with brand new release's

take care
--------------------
jls31316

JLS,
It appears that my post started this. I agree with those that say your prices are very good. My Pro Shop was not too much higher on the Black Widow, so I purchased it there. Maybe $100 was an exaggeration, but many times you can save in the $50 - $75 range making it worthwhile to purchase online. I have nothing against Pro Shops as some on here seem to. To me it just sounded like you were ripping people for trying save a little bit of money. To some $25 or $30 is worth a lot more then to others.

I agree that sometimes, maybe a lot of times, the balls sold online have funky pin locations, that's why they are there and not at a pro shop. Some of of the sites allow for comments where you can request pin locations. I have not asked for a specific pin location, but would like to hear from others if they got what they asked for.

I hope your Pro Shop continues to do well. I apologize for earlier comments about your attitude, it seems I misjudged you based on your earlier post.
--------------------
Jorge300

"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"

Author Topic: Pro Shops vs Online Stores (Read 10279 times)

Jeff Carter

Pro Shops vs Online Stores

jls

Re: Pro Shops vs Online Stores

RSalas

Re: Pro Shops vs Online Stores

Jorge300

Re: Pro Shops vs Online Stores

kmanestor22

Re: Pro Shops vs Online Stores

Pinbuster

Re: Pro Shops vs Online Stores

jls

Re: Pro Shops vs Online Stores

golfnutFL

Re: Pro Shops vs Online Stores

jls

Re: Pro Shops vs Online Stores

Raven829

Re: Pro Shops vs Online Stores

Robadat

Re: Pro Shops vs Online Stores

se7en

Re: Pro Shops vs Online Stores

Djarum

Re: Pro Shops vs Online Stores

Djarum

Re: Pro Shops vs Online Stores

jls

Re: Pro Shops vs Online Stores

Jorge300

Re: Pro Shops vs Online Stores