Author Topic: Pro Shops vs Online Stores (Read 10277 times)

Jeff Carter · « **on:** August 27, 2006, 09:17:58 AM »

Let the debate begin !!! Im interested in some opinions as to why so many people use online stores for their equipment instead of local Pro Shops. This is a topic that we discuss regularly and i'd like to get some opinions from around the country

On the Pro Shop side ( which im a part of ) - pros :
Face to Face customer service
No hidden shipping / drilling fees ( at least in our case )
If there is a problem, we take care of it
Professional service - the guy on the other end of the phone doesnt know you

Id like to hear all comments good and bad
--------------------
Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com

Spider Ball Bowler · « **Reply #61 on:** August 29, 2006, 10:46:47 PM »

Ordering from Bowlingballmall.com I always get the pin and top weight I want..so that's not as issue....
--------------------
Stephen

Nothing matches up to my game....

NateNice · « **Reply #62 on:** August 29, 2006, 11:40:29 PM »

Well, I know every shop has a different price but the place I go to I think is really fair.

I'm getting a Brunswick Vapor Zone from the local Pro Shop and it's going to cost me $171.00, drilled and gripped/slugged.

At Buddies the ball is $122.50 shipped. You have to figure around $30.00 - $40.00 to drill and another $8.00 or so for the grips and slug. I'm looking at around $165.00 for the ball if I DIY and $171.00 the other way. So yes, money would have been saved by buying it online.

I'm not a special customer, I just think my Pro Shop owner understand how to stay in business. He probably doesn't make much on the new ball, maybe $10.00 or $15.00, but makes his money on the drilling service for a total of like a $50.00 profit per ball he sells. You figure he sells a ton of towels, shoes, bags and other accessories and he's doing OK.

He probably learned that it's better to sell the ball at a small profit to at least make something, get more people in the store and sell more other things.

Maybe I'm lucky to have a good pro shop. His deals are good and he's busy, busy busy. Always has like 15 balls waiting to get picked up and always is backed up with like 30 balls that need drilling. He's doing good business it seems.

And he's a good guy, honest and helpful. He's really stepped me up to different ball types as my games improved.

But, if I had to pay like $225.00 for that ball I would indeed but it online.

I think as most people have eluded to, there is a limit. People will spend $10.00 - $20.00 more for the total package, but one you start getting higher, you have to expect people to look elsewhere.

I just checked Buddies and this ball drilled and slugged/plugged all by them would cost $167.00 shipped. That is a savings of about $4.00. I guess I have a good Pro Shop.

Edited on 8/29/2006 11:49 PM

jls · « **Reply #63 on:** August 30, 2006, 09:15:31 AM »

jorge, never said it was wrong to save money!!!! but there is a difference a
between $20-$30 savings, and $100.

my point was that on most new current models, the savings is more likely to be in the $20-$30 range, { unless your pro shop is way out of line }
however some people posted saving's online around $100. and in many cases these
savings were on old models. that have been disc.

i don't believe that's a fair way to compare prices.

if someone can save $100 on a current model like a black widow, infinite one or action max. please call me, cause i would want to buy some.
in these cases, the saving's would more likely be $20- $30. maybe $40, but not $100.

now several people did post prices that were extremely high. if these are the prices their pro shops are charging, NO ONE COULD BLAME THEM FOR BUYING ELSEWHERE.

people can buy where ever they choose!!!!! it's their money. if they can save
even $10 online, i have no problem with that!!!

my only point is, don't lump all pro shops together. we are all not trying to screw the customer with high prices.

and there is a difference between buying a 2 year old model for $45, compared to a new release for $199-$209. and comments like i saved "try like a hundred"
are really out of line.

and as i said in my post, our prices will range on average from $15-$20-$25
higher than online. but not $75-$100.

--------------------
jls31316

Edited on 8/30/2006 9:10 AM

J_L_B · « **Reply #64 on:** August 30, 2006, 01:26:46 PM »

The point is that the sale of bowling balls online is slowly going to drive many Pro Shops out of business simply for the fact that their margins of profit are being driven lower while the price of balls continues to go up.

This is similar to the situation Wal-Mart has caused in small town America. Mom and Pop stores are being driven out of business by a corporation that can afford to buy massive quantities of any one product, driving their cost of goods down and thereby keeping their prices below that of their competitors.

I'm not complaining, this is America, driven by consumers and by capitalism. Today's Pro Shop has to be versatile enough to recognize that the internet isn't going away.

Sometimes you have to make deals with customers to keep their business. You can either do this or they will go somewhere else. Most people who shop online are driven by price and not service.

When they bring that ball they just got online to a pro shop and then they get charged full price for drilling,inserts and slug, sometimes they feel ripped off. But by bringing that ball in and not buying it from the Pro Shop, you have shown the shop that you are driven by price and not service. So why wouldn't the shop do business the same way by charging you full price for everything.

--------------------
Jon Brandon
Columbia Regional Staff 04-06
2003 PBA West Region Rookie of the Year
"You don't score, until you score......"

jls · « **Reply #65 on:** August 30, 2006, 01:44:23 PM »

MAJOR ACTION, well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

pro shop sales have been up every month since jan.
that has not happened in a long time.

online sales are not going to go away, however i do feel that some who have bought online are returning to the pro shops. main reason, you get it now,
better service, and the prices are close to online dealers.

also mid price balls and low end balls are the biggest sellers, and the savings for them online is not that great.
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jls31316

Jorge300 · « **Reply #66 on:** August 30, 2006, 01:51:40 PM »

quote:
The point is that the sale of bowling balls online is slowly going to drive many Pro Shops out of business simply for the fact that their margins of profit are being driven lower while the price of balls continues to go up.

This is similar to the situation Wal-Mart has caused in small town America. Mom and Pop stores are being driven out of business by a corporation that can afford to buy massive quantities of any one product, driving their cost of goods down and thereby keeping their prices below that of their competitors.

I'm not complaining, this is America, driven by consumers and by capitalism. Today's Pro Shop has to be versatile enough to recognize that the internet isn't going away.

Sometimes you have to make deals with customers to keep their business. You can either do this or they will go somewhere else. Most people who shop online are driven by price and not service.

When they bring that ball they just got online to a pro shop and then they get charged full price for drilling,inserts and slug, sometimes they feel ripped off. But by bringing that ball in and not buying it from the Pro Shop, you have shown the shop that you are driven by price and not service. So why wouldn't the shop do business the same way by charging you full price for everything.

--------------------
Jon Brandon
Columbia Regional Staff 04-06
2003 PBA West Region Rookie of the Year
"You don't score, until you score......"

Jon, Would rather sell 1 bowling ball a day or drill 5-6 not purchased at yoru shop a day?

Now this is a rather simplistic question, but why should it make that much of a difference in your customer service? If you provide the same level of service to guy who buys the ball off the net, taking time to make sure the ball is fitted right and layed out best way possible to support his game, don't you think he will return to you for his next ball and the one after that... and so on. If you treat him like a second class customer just because he got a ball offline, he won't be back and there will be another pro shop that will gladly take his money. You are correct the internet is not going away. You are also correct that some of these internet ball sellers probably take advantage of volume discounts to get balls at prices normal pro shops can't. But if you charge $50 for dilling and fitting, it would only take 4-5 to make up for one ball sale. And in the grand scheme of things, you make a higher percentage off the drilling then you do off the ball.

Anyone who expects a discount from a Pro Shop is out of line. Charges are posted and they should expect to pay that. If they are not prepared to do so, then they should find another way to drill their equipment. If I receive a discount from my local shop, I thank them, and feel fortunate. And just because I got one this time, I don't automatically assume I will get one next time. I may be a rare customer, but so be it. The internet has changed the way a lot of businesses must act, for Pro Shops it means focusing more on the service aspect of the business. it means working with cusotmers to determine good layouts for their styles, offering advice on ball selections, and making sure they leave happy with a good fitting ball. And who knows, if you continue to do that, maybe one of these guys will decide to buy from you next time instead of the net, but if you don't offer the service you'll never get the chance to win their business.
--------------------
Jorge300

"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"

jls · « **Reply #67 on:** August 30, 2006, 03:29:39 PM »

JORGE300, good point, it should not matter whether the person is buying the ball from the pro shop, or bringing one in from online or a ball league.

the pro shop should drill it the same way, with the same good service.

however, many shops don't look at it that way, they see a $40-$50 drill job
on a outside ball and think that they just lost a $220 sale. you don't make $220 on a new ball, sure you might make more than $40-$50. but not $220.

i can't speak for all area's of the country, but in our area, it seems that bowlers want it now, today!!!! and if the pro shop is well stocked, the customer will tend to buy it now.
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jls31316

J_L_B · « **Reply #68 on:** August 30, 2006, 08:13:45 PM »

I would treat an internet customer with the same respect as I would any regular customer as far as service goes.

The only difference is that the prices posted on the board are exactly what they will pay and no deals will be made. With regular customers I tend to treat them with deals from time to time.

Of course I'm not going to turn away people who bring balls in, that's pure labor profit for me. The profit isn't exactly the same as a complete ball sale.

Cost of Black Widow - $111
Regular price - $189 + tax

Profit margin = $78
Other variables - Ordering ball (pin, top weight) paying sales tax, warantees...etc.

Customer brings in Black Widow - Free
Drilling + inserts + slug - $45 + $10 + $15 = $70

Other variables - No ordering, no sales tax, no warantees.

On that specific ball, my profit is so close that I don't mind the internet customer. Now take into account that the suggested retail on a lot of balls isn't what most shops charge for fear of customers going elsewhere. That fear of losing customers is what can drive a shop out of business.
--------------------
Jon Brandon
Columbia Regional Staff 04-06
2003 PBA West Region Rookie of the Year
"You don't score, until you score......"

Jeff Carter · « **Reply #69 on:** August 30, 2006, 09:31:45 PM »

Guys this is a great discussion. Its given me some new views on internet sales. I guess i really havent paid too much attention as to what the pricing levels really were. I also didnt realize this many people actually got equipment drilled by online vendors. That sort of amazes me, but if you trust the person on the other end and you get good service, why not !
One thing this discussion has made me ( and my buddy ) do is re-evaluate our Pro Shop business in general. We are actually considering doing a little of both. For instance ( since this is the ball everybody is using for an example ) we are selling Black Widows for $174.95 drilled. Add about $17.90 for grips & slugs, applicable taxes and shipping fees and we feel that we can offer competitive prices compared to the Online retailers but give the same type of "face to face" service that we already do.
We pride ourselves in being a very service oriented shop, taking the time to work with the customer in every aspect from fitting, layout, surface prep all the way to professional instruction and arsenal building. We are kicking around the idea of setting up an online store through my website, that will allow you to purchase equipment through us and have it shipped to you "turn key" if you wish. Pair this with my plans for online coaching and my "build an arsenal" plans, and this could turn into something beneficial to a lot of customers across the country. Just an idea we are working on.......
--------------------
Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com

J_L_B · « **Reply #70 on:** August 31, 2006, 05:13:52 AM »

quote:
WOW...some of you guys pro shops charge outrageous prices for balls. I bought my scorchin inferno for 140 drilled with grips,slugs, and unlimited number of practice games with it. I usually always buy from my pro shop but if i can find a deal online i get it because since im such good friends with the owner he never charges me for drilling.

Does he charge everyone that comes into the shop $140 drilled with grips and slug for a Scorchin? Odds are he doesn't or he must sell 1000s of balls a year to make a profit.

You are his friend, you get a deal. The prices we charge are outrageous compared to what you get from your "friend" in trade for helping him around the shop and just being a "friend".

Your situation is so far-fetched that it isn't even relevant to the thread........

jls · « **Reply #71 on:** August 31, 2006, 11:37:42 AM »

MAJOR ACTION, right on, he gets the ball slugs inserts free games and probably a "monica coupon", and all for $140.

this is my point, does he hear himself, is this normal???
first, the driller is his "buddy", second he helps around the shop,
so the driller gives him a deal.

does this guy think that the driller does this for everyone???
and then he makes a comment about how much pro shops charge compared to what he can get the ball for.

once again, it's just a game some people like to play, "my daddy is bigger"
that sort of thing, just want to brag. but once again, it's not a fair
comparison.

does everyone help his buddy driller out so they get the buddy price???

i think not.

now rags, this was a stupid thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
also heard a rumor that gay people shop online and at wal mart.
does this mean some people will not buy online anymore.

not me of course!!!!!!!!!!!

--------------------
jls31316

Edited on 9/1/2006 1:44 PM

Edited on 9/1/2006 1:45 PM

jls · « **Reply #72 on:** September 01, 2006, 01:53:58 PM »

just heard a rumor that gay people shop online and at wal mart.
if true, does this mean people will not buy online anymore???

not me of course!!!
--------------------
jls31316

AllAirForceTwice · « **Reply #73 on:** September 02, 2006, 12:09:59 AM »

I mostly buy online for price really... Joe proshop can't beat the big online stores prices because the online stores purchase high volume... on the other hand... Joe proshop can't stock because the ball makers put out on average 50 new balls a year! Everytime I see that end-of-year chart in Bowlers Journal I thank God I don't have my on shop... Storm and Columbia alone probably account for half that together...

Someone posted about closeouts... Sure, if the online shop buys 300 Storm X-Factors for example at 20 bucks each and sold them at 49.99 + S&H... not a bad return on investment... Joe proshop just can't beat it... it's a catch 22 IMHO.

It's like Mom & Pop bookstore the size of a McDonald's in the same mall as Barnes & Noble... Sure the service is great but no selection and the resulting low volume-high price.
--------------------
Capt Dave Ingraham
2004/2006 All Air Force

Thanks Phil and Billy at Dynothane for your sponsorship of the Air Force Team!

jls · « **Reply #74 on:** September 02, 2006, 08:40:50 AM »

online stores are nothing more than dist. { possibly the big 2} most online dealers are order takers only, and they send their order to a major dist.
and in some cases right to the ball company. lane one for example.

--------------------
jls31316

Hogsharley · « **Reply #75 on:** September 02, 2006, 09:10:15 AM »

I shop in a pro shop for a number of reasons;
1) My pro shop has reasonable prices. Example; My RSP was $115 drilled, slugged and grips.
2) If I needed to alter the surface, he will do it as many times as I needed him to until I find the right surface.
3) If I bought a ball from someone else, I wouldn't feel funny about asking him to drill it. He would also charge me the full price of $50 to drill it.
4) My pro shop guys sells online and on Ebay. If I win one of his auctions, I will not have to pay $19 for shipping.
5) If a ball a bought from him has a defect (new ball cracked), he will take care of everything needed to replace the ball at no charge.
6) Sometimes he won't even charge me for new grips.
7) He will get me the ball with the specs I want. I won't have to worry about getting the ball shipped to me with the wrong specs.

He is much more customer oriented. He will try to do everything to please his customers.
9) I know exactly what kind of product and service he gives and his knowledge of the products he sells. I don't have to go to Ballreviews.com and ask questions and get answers from people who may or may not have all that much knowledge about bowling balls.
--------------------
3 holes of fun!!

Author Topic: Pro Shops vs Online Stores (Read 10277 times)

Jeff Carter

Pro Shops vs Online Stores

Spider Ball Bowler

Re: Pro Shops vs Online Stores

NateNice

Re: Pro Shops vs Online Stores

jls

Re: Pro Shops vs Online Stores

J_L_B

Re: Pro Shops vs Online Stores

jls

Re: Pro Shops vs Online Stores

Jorge300

Re: Pro Shops vs Online Stores

jls

Re: Pro Shops vs Online Stores

J_L_B

Re: Pro Shops vs Online Stores

Jeff Carter

Re: Pro Shops vs Online Stores

J_L_B

Re: Pro Shops vs Online Stores

jls

Re: Pro Shops vs Online Stores

jls

Re: Pro Shops vs Online Stores

AllAirForceTwice

Re: Pro Shops vs Online Stores

jls

Re: Pro Shops vs Online Stores

Hogsharley

Re: Pro Shops vs Online Stores