Post by: n00dlejester on April 13, 2008, 11:37:24 PM
I personally think having pros in local events is fine. The talent gap between the pros and the locals (at least on a THS, which this tournament was) is nowhere near the talent gap between local and pro baseball players. And it was a lot of fun watching him tear it up on a THS (he shot 780 for doubles, and a low 7 for singles). What are your thoughts on all this?
Post by: agroves on April 14, 2008, 07:48:05 AM
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Andrew
Post by: justdale on April 14, 2008, 08:40:37 AM
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Dale Williams
Columbia 300 Utah Amateur Staff
Post by: Eddie M on April 14, 2008, 08:47:03 AM
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Post by: sheppy335 on April 14, 2008, 08:51:36 AM
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Oil is served Best with fingers!
Why does the 8 Pin laugh at me!
Sheppy
Post by: JOE FALCO on April 14, 2008, 08:52:28 AM
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: NicholasE on April 14, 2008, 08:54:05 AM
quote:
Just remember, if he would of gotten beat by a bunch of people, this would of never even been a topic!!!
BULL CRAP!! lol if I ever beat PB3 I would tell EVERYONE!! lol
I know where your coming from though, we had a PBA guy to bowl in a 9pin no tap tournament a couple months ago which I didn't know he was a PBA player till I happened to go through the exempt players and there he was...but it was doubles and his partner wasn't bowling well and we still beat them so I don't care..lol
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Throwing hambones since 2005.
www.myspace.com/nestes12
Post by: SUNDEVIL23 on April 14, 2008, 08:56:33 AM
Post by: pop_1 on April 14, 2008, 08:56:42 AM
Post by: Dan Belcher on April 14, 2008, 09:15:14 AM
Post by: lilmike2782 on April 14, 2008, 09:17:43 AM
quote:
So yesterday I bowled in the NJ State Tournament, and lo and behold Parker Bohn III was there for the 9:00AM singles/doubles squad, and the 12:30PM 5-man team squad. So we start the day bowling doubles, and the first game he fired a 300. He was part of about 10 brackets and obviously destroyed anybody. Because of this people near my pairs (I was on 3-4) were saying that having a pro is a non-PBA event is just not fair. One guy made the analogy that "it's like having Ryan Howard playing for the high school varsity team."
I personally think having pros in local events is fine. The talent gap between the pros and the locals (at least on a THS, which this tournament was) is nowhere near the talent gap between local and pro baseball players. And it was a lot of fun watching him tear it up on a THS (he shot 780 for doubles, and a low 7 for singles). What are your thoughts on all this?
you wouldn't have complained if he shot 620, 615, 660. you would have said something like "wow, parker bohn sucked, i even beat him, i will tell everyone." i have watched multiple non-pro bowlers put up better numbers than he did in your tourney. a bowler is a bowler. pro bowlers can shoot highscores, but if you watch all the telecasts, you can also see they can shoot 149's with ease. and its not like ryan howard playing in highschool, cause that is not allowed. bad bad analogy.
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ultra zone
hammer toxic
twisted fury
hot rod hybrid
kick zone
avalanche pearl
clear golf ball
Edited on 4/14/2008 9:23 AM
Post by: DanH78 on April 14, 2008, 09:25:54 AM
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It IS next year!
Post by: Sportskraz on April 14, 2008, 09:26:02 AM
quote:quote:
So yesterday I bowled in the NJ State Tournament, and lo and behold Parker Bohn III was there for the 9:00AM singles/doubles squad, and the 12:30PM 5-man team squad. So we start the day bowling doubles, and the first game he fired a 300. He was part of about 10 brackets and obviously destroyed anybody. Because of this people near my pairs (I was on 3-4) were saying that having a pro is a non-PBA event is just not fair. One guy made the analogy that "it's like having Ryan Howard playing for the high school varsity team."
I personally think having pros in local events is fine. The talent gap between the pros and the locals (at least on a THS, which this tournament was) is nowhere near the talent gap between local and pro baseball players. And it was a lot of fun watching him tear it up on a THS (he shot 780 for doubles, and a low 7 for singles). What are your thoughts on all this?
you wouldn't have complained if he shot 585, 615, 660. i have watched multiple non-pro bowlers put up better numbers. a bowler is a bowler. pro bowlers can shoot highscores, but if you watch all the telecasts, you can also see they can shoot 149's with ease.
I dont think he was complaining. In fact in knowing the original poster's scores I believe he beat Parker's singles scores. Besides, there is a huge difference in watching someone throw a 149 on a PBA telecast and throwing a 149 on a THS at Howell Lanes. Re-read the post.
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ultra zone
hammer toxic
twisted fury
hot rod hybrid
kick zone
avalanche pearl
clear golf ball
Post by: n00dlejester on April 14, 2008, 10:11:46 AM
http://njbowling.com/njstatetournament.htm
I did beat him in singles, I shot a 757 scratch to his whatever it was.
And as far as whoever said I was complaining: I wasn't. Read my post again.
Sportskraz, say something dude.
It was a lot of fun. I must say having all those yellow Bohn Zone shirts floating around was cool.
Post by: Dan Belcher on April 14, 2008, 10:18:28 AM
quote:He did say something, but he buried his post inside the quote tags, so it's hard to see it.
Sportskraz, say something dude.
Post by: n00dlejester on April 14, 2008, 10:24:05 AM
Post by: tenten on April 14, 2008, 10:27:02 AM
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Team USA-1999,2007, & 2008
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Post by: 9andaWiggle on April 14, 2008, 10:33:42 AM
On one hand, it's pretty cool that amateurs can mix it up with the pros. Not many other sports does the average fan have that opportunity. However, it kinda sucks going into a tournaments knowing you're an amateur and someone with "Professional" status is likely to throw up some great numbers. Although, there are plenty of bowlers on a THS format that can do the same, so I dunno. Probably more a mental thing there.
On the other hand, it's kinda sad if the Pro's are hitting amateur tournaments because they aren't making enough off of tour to support themselves and their families. But it's cool if they're doing it because they enjoy mixing it up with different bowlers in different locations.
All in all, I reckon there's more good from having the Pro's bowl in "amateur" tournaments than bad.
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9~
It's a Sheep thing... You wouldn't understand!
Post by: jch922 on April 14, 2008, 11:25:33 AM
Post by: AngloBowler on April 14, 2008, 11:42:05 AM
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Reporting from England
Post by: SrKegler on April 14, 2008, 12:02:02 PM
Guess everyone is supposed to have their "niche".
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Charter Member FOS
Have Balls - Will Travel
Post by: ccrider on April 14, 2008, 12:07:08 PM
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Those that can do. Those that can't complain.
My saying for the day: "You can take the ho out of the hood, but you can't take the ho out of the ho."
Post by: nextbowler on April 14, 2008, 12:21:55 PM
major component, does not equal a level playing field. In a tournament, I
bowl to win, not to give my money to a professional. I would not bowl the
tournament, as the likelihood of me beating PBJ3 is not very high. I also
fail to see how anyone else's bowling makes you a better bowler.
Post by: KDawg77 on April 14, 2008, 12:23:54 PM
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Ken
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Post by: jhutch769 on April 14, 2008, 12:26:21 PM
Post by: Dan Belcher on April 14, 2008, 12:35:08 PM
quote:If that was the case, I wouldn't bowl in any tournament some of the better non-professional regional bowlers enter, because they can beat me 9 times out of 10...
I would not bowl the tournament, as the likelihood of me beating PBJ3 is not very high.
In a tournament, I bowl to compete. I know the odds of me winning aren't good, but that's not the point for me.
Post by: MAJM on April 14, 2008, 12:36:53 PM
quote:
The talent gap between the pros and the locals (at least on a THS, which this tournament was) is nowhere near the talent gap between local and pro baseball players.
You willing to put money on that? I've bowled with Ricky Ward in league a few times when he was still on tour. Now Ricky isn't the best of the best like Parker, but he was a member for a long time. He made 790s look like it was 620s on a THS. Now I'm nothing in this sport but Ricky bowled on this team with some of the best our area had to offer and they couldn't keep up with him. While they were averaging 220-225 he was in the 245-250 range and made it look easy. Don't kid yourself, there is a HUGE talent gap between pros and locals in any sport.
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Join the Revolution
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Edited on 4/14/2008 12:37 PM
Post by: who_knew on April 14, 2008, 12:37:49 PM
Post by: dw23 on April 14, 2008, 12:38:47 PM
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Thanks,
DW
Post by: MAJM on April 14, 2008, 12:39:27 PM
quote:
A professional competing against amateurs in any event in which skill is a major component, does not equal a level playing field. In a tournament, I
bowl to win, not to give my money to a professional. I would not bowl the
tournament, as the likelihood of me beating PBJ3 is not very high. I also
fail to see how anyone else's bowling makes you a better bowler.
Judging by that statement you've never competed on any serious level.
--------------------
Join the Revolution
http://www.ronpaul2008.com
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Post by: stormed1 on April 14, 2008, 12:55:56 PM
Post by: Hogsharley on April 14, 2008, 01:10:40 PM
quote:
and the first game he fired a 300.
Now that's funny. Was the white flag raised about the 8th frame?
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3 holes of fun!!
Post by: LuckyLefty on April 14, 2008, 01:16:53 PM
BUT he gets better on the tough stuff!
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: wooddaddy on April 14, 2008, 01:19:17 PM
quote:
The pros got to eat too.
they want to eat, they can go to work like the rest of us do
Post by: stormfanken on April 14, 2008, 01:23:52 PM
I bowl in the Missouri State bowling tournament every year. Pete Weber bowls in this tourney on a regular basis. I dont remember hearing anyone there complaining that he was bowling in the tournament. As a matter of fact last year I beat him scratch in all events. To me it was one of the greatest things to happen to me since I started bowling. If he hadn't bowled in the tournament I would have never had this chance. I know that wont happen to often but for one weekend I can say that I beat Pete Weber. And even if you don't beat bowlers like that, how often do you get a chance to bowl with a pro like that??
Post by: tenpin477 on April 14, 2008, 01:42:00 PM
For Parker Bohn III to show up for his own State Tournament, and dominate the brackets, theres nothing wrong with that lol. Theres no reason he shouldn't be allowed to bowl.
Post by: vilecanards on April 14, 2008, 01:46:29 PM
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r.k.wolfe
Post by: n00dlejester on April 14, 2008, 02:10:20 PM
Post by: n00dlejester on April 14, 2008, 02:11:08 PM
quote:
In a City or State tournament, as long as he pays his dues, theres no reason he shouldn't be allowed to bowl. As for the various amateur tournaments that come up throughout the year, that is up to each individual director whether or not he allows pros.
For Parker Bohn III to show up for his own State Tournament, and dominate the brackets, theres nothing wrong with that lol. Theres no reason he shouldn't be allowed to bowl.
He dominated the brackets like it was his dayjob. It was awesome haha
Post by: 9andaWiggle on April 14, 2008, 02:13:35 PM
quote:
There is no score in bowling that you can't beat yourself, or at least tie..
That is, unless the tourney in handicapped and you're giving up pins!
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9~
It's a Sheep thing... You wouldn't understand!
Post by: michelle on April 14, 2008, 03:03:53 PM
quote:
On the other hand, it's kinda sad if the Pro's are hitting amateur tournaments because they aren't making enough off of tour to support themselves and their families. But it's cool if they're doing it because they enjoy mixing it up with different bowlers in different locations.
I don't see them bowling in stuff like a state tourney as being for the money, but rather for the honor of being 'the best in the State.'
Post by: EdKramarcak on April 14, 2008, 04:08:52 PM
quote:
BULL CRAP!! lol if I ever beat PB3 I would tell EVERYONE!!
Post by: OddBalls on April 14, 2008, 04:28:51 PM
quote:
He dominated the brackets like it was his dayjob. It was awesome haha
That IS his day job..
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Inverted 1 and Dead Flush are my Evil Twins...
Post by: JoeBowler on April 14, 2008, 04:37:01 PM
Post by: JOE FALCO on April 14, 2008, 04:47:45 PM
Point being PROS are there because they excel in their work .. amateurs do their thing as a pass time and 90% of the time can't compete with the pro's!
When a Pro bowler enters a local amateur tournament he has a great advantage .. even higher then a 220 average bowler entering a scratch tournament against bowlers with 200 or less averages!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: notgoodenuf on April 14, 2008, 05:13:18 PM
Post by: BeansProShop on April 14, 2008, 08:15:39 PM
Why should somebody that decides to join a membership not be allowed to bowl???
What makes the guy who averages 240 in league but doesn't have a card less qualified than than the 206 average bowler that chooses to pay a membership to a club? A true professional gets paid for playing their sport. Not paying dues to be a member..
Think about it.
beans
--------------------
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Thomas "Beans" Biniek Jr.
PBA Member and Lane#1 Ball Drilling Expert
Thanks for reading and be sure to check us out at the Lane#1 booth in Albuquerque. Check out current eBay auctions at:
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Post by: Hogsharley on April 14, 2008, 08:31:14 PM
http://www.oldschooltournaments.com/
quote:
Eligibility - Any man or woman can bowl with the exception of
PBA National Champions and Current Exempt PBA members.
Bowlers that have participated In A PBA Event Or Regional PBA Event during
the past 12 months are mandated into the over division. Average rule
applies to all others.
http://www.bowling300.com/nabioflongisland/events.htm
quote:
Open to anyone averaging 220 or under, who has never been a PBA Member.
Must be 20 years of age to participate in the Tournament.
$10 Annual Membership Fee
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3 holes of fun!!
Post by: tenpin477 on April 14, 2008, 08:54:04 PM
Post by: nextbowler on April 14, 2008, 10:03:14 PM
trying to win. MAJM--I played college football and coached high school base-
ball in a great league for 16 years. I am sure that level is higher than
anything that you have competed in. Don't include any stupid bowling tourn-
aments you have bowled in--it rarely could compare.
Post by: Krakken on April 15, 2008, 07:18:25 AM
quote:
I've had Mike Wolfe stomp me in brackets in our city tournament before, and I have no problem with it. He's a nice guy, fun to bowl with, and it's not like he's some kind of mystical, unbeatable force. He's just another bowler who happens to be more talented than 99% of us and makes a career out of it.
That is the point. Mike Wolfe is a nice guy, and so is PB3, however, they have no place in local City, and/or State tournaments. These events are and should be for the local bowlers.
They are better than 99% of us so they should be bowling with the other 1% in tourneys.
And they really shouldn't be stealing your money in the brackets. And that is what it is on a THS, stealing your money.
Post by: Dan Belcher on April 15, 2008, 07:22:53 AM
quote:To be fair, I shot a higher game than Wolfe the first game to get paired with him, and then I backed it up with a 180 after I had trouble with my thumb swelling badly. Like I said, if he was literally unbeatable it'd be a different story. But he's not that much better than some of the best local guys. I sometimes would have a harder time beating Tony Lambert or Chris Hester than Wolfe, and they aren't PBA pros. They're just very talented bowlers as well.quote:
I've had Mike Wolfe stomp me in brackets in our city tournament before, and I have no problem with it. He's a nice guy, fun to bowl with, and it's not like he's some kind of mystical, unbeatable force. He's just another bowler who happens to be more talented than 99% of us and makes a career out of it.
That is the point. Mike Wolfe is a nice guy, and so is PB3, however, they have no place in local City, and/or State tournaments. These events are and should be for the local bowlers.
They are better than 99% of us so they should be bowling with the other 1% in tourneys.
And they really shouldn't be stealing your money in the brackets. And that is what it is on a THS, stealing your money.
Post by: jd1319 on April 15, 2008, 07:25:14 AM
Post by: JOE FALCO on April 15, 2008, 07:43:10 AM
quote:
I hope anybody who even remotely thinks a pro would enter a state tourny to make money because they aren't making enough money on tour was drunk when that thought entered their mind. Pro's entering those tourny's do it to bowl with friends, and to have no pressure fun. They are just regular guys, who have lots of friends who love to bowl, and they don't get the league opportunities afforded to us.
Why do they get in brackets?
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: jd1319 on April 15, 2008, 07:48:47 AM
Post by: n00dlejester on April 15, 2008, 07:58:59 AM
Post by: Dan Belcher on April 15, 2008, 08:03:06 AM
quote:Yep, I sure as hell don't do brackets to win money!
I join brackets for the thrill of victory and the despair of defeat. That, and it's a fun way to add more competitiveness to the game.
I managed to exactly break even on brackets during the city tournament, and also won about $20 off an actual jackpot for a 280 game. I didn't even win enough money to pay for the entry fee for the tournament. But at least it was some extra fun and extra competition.
Post by: Gazoo on April 15, 2008, 08:05:25 AM
Post by: n00dlejester on April 15, 2008, 08:09:06 AM
quote:
We are talking about the state tournament here (where he lives), not the monthly local $40 buyin scratch tournament. Lets keep it real.
The entry fee was $22 actually
The catch was you had to join both singles and doubles if you wanted to join.
Post by: 9andaWiggle on April 15, 2008, 08:32:59 AM
quote:
I hope anybody who even remotely thinks a pro would enter a state tourny to make money because they aren't making enough money on tour was drunk when that thought entered their mind. Pro's entering those tourny's do it to bowl with friends, and to have no pressure fun. They are just regular guys, who have lots of friends who love to bowl, and they don't get the league opportunities afforded to us.
I wasn't drunk, but never being on tour myself I don't have first hand knowledge. I've heard it can be tough to make it from a financial standpoint, seeing as how bowling pays a small fraction to our best Pro's in comparison to other professional athletes. I'm not saying that was the reason PB3 was bowling a local tourney, but I thought it could be a reason for some of the other guys who maybe aren't quite as successful, but still full-on PBA professionals.
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9~
It's a Sheep thing... You wouldn't understand!
Post by: JOE FALCO on April 15, 2008, 08:44:01 AM
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: michelle on April 15, 2008, 08:57:54 AM
Oh, and am I the only one that finds it ironic that we are watching a thread whining about pros in association tournaments when some of the same posters have expressed a willingness for the association fees to support the PBA?
And another thought...the only person who *might* even be in a position to whine or snivel and have a possible point would be the person who finishes second and, but for the presence of an exempt member, would have been city or state champion.
Post by: 9andaWiggle on April 15, 2008, 09:19:06 AM
quote:
And another thought...the only person who *might* even be in a position to whine or snivel and have a possible point would be the person who finishes second and, but for the presence of an exempt member, would have been city or state champion.
I still think, as I posted in my first reply, that we should look at it this way: how many golfers get to tee it up with Tiger Woods at a local Country Club? Or how many tennis players get to play a match against Andre Agassi? Bowlers have it good when it comes to accessibility to our Pros, and that's why despite a couple of minor negatives, I think overall it's great for the sport if they are welcomed with open arms to compete with ANY bowler, in any event they choose to enter.
To clarify, when I said it was sad if the Pros were entering local tourneys for money, I made that statement not to be a slam against the pros... It was meant to point out that I think it's sad how our Pros are greatly underpaid and undervalued in comparison to other professional athletes.
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9~
It's a Sheep thing... You wouldn't understand!
Post by: JOE FALCO on April 15, 2008, 09:23:06 AM
quote:
And another thought...the only person who *might* even be in a position to whine or snivel and have a possible point would be the person who finishes second and, but for the presence of an exempt member, would have been city or state champion.
How about all the guys who came in 2nd in the brackets?
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: DanH78 on April 15, 2008, 09:31:28 AM
quote:
That is the point. Mike Wolfe is a nice guy, and so is PB3, however, they have no place in local City, and/or State tournaments. These events are and should be for the local bowlers.
They are better than 99% of us so they should be bowling with the other 1% in tourneys.
And they really shouldn't be stealing your money in the brackets. And that is what it is on a THS, stealing your money.
They are local guys. You mean if a city/state tournament is held in the house Doug Kent owns he shouldn't be allowed to bowl? It's tough to get more local than that. We aren't talking about PBA guys setting up their own little tour hitting as many City/State/County tournaments around that country as they can. These are tournaments that they have likely bowled in since WAY before they went out on tour.
Parker won 10 brackets, what's that $400? How many brackets did he lose when he shot the small 700? 700 won't even crack the top 10 in the Chicago/Illinois tournaments, so that means someone stole Parkers money.
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It IS next year!
Post by: michelle on April 15, 2008, 09:42:15 AM
quote:quote:
And another thought...the only person who *might* even be in a position to whine or snivel and have a possible point would be the person who finishes second and, but for the presence of an exempt member, would have been city or state champion.
How about all the guys who came in 2nd in the brackets?
Brackets are ALWAYS about luck of the draw. The bowler that finishes second in the brackets by losing to an exempt pro still made money. IMO, they can have a nice cup of STFU. When you bowl scratch, you agree that you were shoe'ing up to take on ALL comers...
If someone is so strapped for money that it REALLY made a difference, then maybe they shouldn't have been in the brackets in the first place...
Post by: JOE FALCO on April 15, 2008, 09:56:47 AM
quote:
If someone is so strapped for money that it REALLY made a difference, then maybe they shouldn't have been in the brackets in the first place...
Does this mean it's OK for a PRO to enter brackets against an amateur? Being STRAPPED for money is a different topic .. now we are discussing should a PRO be entered in a tournament against amateurs .. or .. the Tournament Director can write in the acceptance of Pros competing .. but should the Pros be allowed to enter BRACKETS?
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: Krakken on April 15, 2008, 10:16:06 AM
quote:quote:quote:
And another thought...the only person who *might* even be in a position to whine or snivel and have a possible point would be the person who finishes second and, but for the presence of an exempt member, would have been city or state champion.
How about all the guys who came in 2nd in the brackets?
Brackets are ALWAYS about luck of the draw. The bowler that finishes second in the brackets by losing to an exempt pro still made money. IMO, they can have a nice cup of STFU. When you bowl scratch, you agree that you were shoe'ing up to take on ALL comers...
If someone is so strapped for money that it REALLY made a difference, then maybe they shouldn't have been in the brackets in the first place...
You aren't shoeing up to take on all comers. You are shoe'ing up to take on local non-professionals. The guys that lose to them in brackets are cheated, the guys that finish one spot below them in the tourney are cheated, and it isn't whining it is fact. Parker will probably shoot 800 on a THS over half the time, and 750+ the rest of the time.
Pro's are pro's for a reason, and the local State and City tourney are for the local bowlers, not emempt touring pros that make $150,000 throwing 6 strikes.
You are right though, the local association needs to re-write the rules. How about flat out PBA Champinos are not eligible.
Just another reason bowlign is heading down the crapper.
Post by: rvmark on April 15, 2008, 10:37:18 AM
Post by: 9andaWiggle on April 15, 2008, 10:44:37 AM
quote:quote:
If someone is so strapped for money that it REALLY made a difference, then maybe they shouldn't have been in the brackets in the first place...
Does this mean it's OK for a PRO to enter brackets against an amateur? Being STRAPPED for money is a different topic .. now we are discussing should a PRO be entered in a tournament against amateurs .. or .. the Tournament Director can write in the acceptance of Pros competing .. but should the Pros be allowed to enter BRACKETS?
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
So... should a 230 avg league bowler be allowed to get matched up against a 190 avg league bowler in tourney brackets? Or should there be different brackets, in 5 pin increments for average group, so everyone is equally paired and has a fair chance to win money?
Personally, I see no difference between getting paired up against the 230 avg. league bowler and PB3 in a bracket.
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9~
It's a Sheep thing... You wouldn't understand!
Post by: michelle on April 15, 2008, 10:52:29 AM
quote:quote:quote:quote:
And another thought...the only person who *might* even be in a position to whine or snivel and have a possible point would be the person who finishes second and, but for the presence of an exempt member, would have been city or state champion.
How about all the guys who came in 2nd in the brackets?
Brackets are ALWAYS about luck of the draw. The bowler that finishes second in the brackets by losing to an exempt pro still made money. IMO, they can have a nice cup of STFU. When you bowl scratch, you agree that you were shoe'ing up to take on ALL comers...
If someone is so strapped for money that it REALLY made a difference, then maybe they shouldn't have been in the brackets in the first place...
You aren't shoeing up to take on all comers. You are shoe'ing up to take on local non-professionals. The guys that lose to them in brackets are cheated, the guys that finish one spot below them in the tourney are cheated, and it isn't whining it is fact. Parker will probably shoot 800 on a THS over half the time, and 750+ the rest of the time.
Pro's are pro's for a reason, and the local State and City tourney are for the local bowlers, not emempt touring pros that make $150,000 throwing 6 strikes.
You are right though, the local association needs to re-write the rules. How about flat out PBA Champinos are not eligible.
Just another reason bowlign is heading down the crapper.
If you are afraid to bowl scratch against another scratch bowler, then you need to just stay out of the brackets. Scratch bowling should ALWAYS be about not being afraid to shoe up against whoever else is on the squad or in the tournament. At the scratch level, every bowler has the opportunity to at least split the game in the bracket...
And, let us also not forget that not every exempt pro had the opportunity to throw six strikes for $150K, so we can toss that red herring out the window.
Local bowlers have been shoeing up against national touring players for years. I had the benefit of being in a couple of East Texas leagues nearly 20 years ago where it was not uncommon to see Ozio, Mark Williams and/or Wayne Webb sub in the scratch leagues if they had missed the cut in a particular week. All three were living in the Beaumont/Port Arthur area at the time, so it was home for them. Not once did anyone shy away from the challenge of trying to get their points for the week...if anything, those with solid mental games stepped it up a notch.
Lastly, I don't know about you, but there are many associations that have bowlers who possess the game to have been competitive at both the regional and national levels but, for any number of reasons, have opted not to pursue competition at that level. They are still considered an amateur. Are you also afraid to bowl THEM in the brackets? When you worry about WHO you are bowling against instead of what you are doing on the lanes, then you are already behind in count...mental game has much to do with success on the lanes as you have to keep focused on those elements over which you have control.
Post by: michelle on April 15, 2008, 10:56:04 AM
quote:quote:
If someone is so strapped for money that it REALLY made a difference, then maybe they shouldn't have been in the brackets in the first place...
Does this mean it's OK for a PRO to enter brackets against an amateur? Being STRAPPED for money is a different topic .. now we are discussing should a PRO be entered in a tournament against amateurs .. or .. the Tournament Director can write in the acceptance of Pros competing .. but should the Pros be allowed to enter BRACKETS?
Absolutely they ought to be able to enter. ANY BOWLER entering an event with brackets ought to be permitted to enter whatever brackets or side pots are available to their Division. Last I checked, scratch was scratch, not 'scratch with exclusions of the people we perceive as uber-talented'
When you enter an event, you know who is bowling. If you are UNWILLING to take that chance of being randomly assigned against an exempt player, then keep your bracket and sidepot money in your pocket.
Post by: Krakken on April 15, 2008, 12:48:01 PM
Quote
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote
Local bowlers have been shoeing up against national touring players for years. I had the benefit of being in a couple of East Texas leagues nearly 20 years ago where it was not uncommon to see Ozio, Mark Williams and/or Wayne Webb sub in the scratch leagues if they had missed the cut in a particular week. All three were living in the Beaumont/Port Arthur area at the time, so it was home for them. Not once did anyone shy away from the challenge of trying to get their points for the week...if anything, those with solid mental games stepped it up a notch.
They are still considered an amateur. Are you also afraid to bowl THEM in the brackets? quote]
Lets get 2 things straight, I am not afraid to bowl anyone. I have and will continue to bowl in a TQR every year, and regional tourneys as well. This was a question of whether they belong in the tourney in the first place, which I feel they do not. This is a tourney for Amateur bowlers and should stay that way. Scratch or handicap, it should be an amateur tourney. And on top of it for a top pro to take bracket money from folks I feel isn't right. Did he even finish 2nd in any of his brackets? Probably not.
2nd, your argument of local league bowlers going against top pros is no argument, it is a LEAGUE, not a tournament. 2 distinctly differnet things. We had a few pros sub in our PBA experience league here and shoot lights out, and no one cared, including me. It was a League, that is for getting better.
and the Roll to Riches sure does count. Could I have bowled in the roll to riches for $150,000? NO. Why should he be able to come to a local City/State Tourney and take money from the local bowlers, many of which think of this as the highlight to their year?
We will probably have to agree to disagree, but your argument about leagues isn't even close to one about taking tournament cash away from local bowlers, and I think you would feel differnet if you got in $100 worth of brackets and drew PB3 in all of them either in the 1st or 2nd game, shot 250+ and got nothing for your efforts in local tourney. Or would you shrug it off and say luck of the draw?....lol
Post by: michelle on April 15, 2008, 01:11:01 PM
quote:
and the Roll to Riches sure does count. Could I have bowled in the roll to riches for $150,000? NO. Why should he be able to come to a local City/State Tourney and take money from the local bowlers, many of which think of this as the highlight to their year?
And there were what, 58 exempt players who ALSO did not get to roll for $150K.
Taking money from local bowlers? Hell, he IS a local bowler. Granted, he is a local bowler who also happened to be exempt but the simple fact remains that he is a local bowler who paid his association dues. Therefore, anyone in that situation is someone with whom I have absolutely zero objections to seeing enter the event. Who knows, the increased possibility of crossing with a national pro might even serve to add a few entries on an annual basis...
quote:
We will probably have to agree to disagree, but your argument about leagues isn't even close to one about taking tournament cash away from local bowlers, and I think you would feel differnet if you got in $100 worth of brackets and drew PB3 in all of them either in the 1st or 2nd game, shot 250+ and got nothing for your efforts in local tourney. Or would you shrug it off and say luck of the draw?....lol
A c-note is not anything I am going to be bent out of shape with, win OR lose. It is no different than when I go to nationals and happen to draw Tiffany or Anne-Marie or CDB in the brackets. I put up my money, I post my scores against whoever the computer paired me with. It is also no different than if I were to resume bowling my State tourney and have to potentially face Lynda Barnes or CDB. They bowl in this State and are members of the association.
How is it any different to shoot 250+ and lose to a PB III in the first or second round than to lose to any other bowler posting the number who might not be anything more than a league hack? The result remains the same...out of two scores, yours is second best. Period. Suck it up and pony up in the next set. My god, some of you act like a hundred dollar bill is something to be held in awe...
(Oh, and before you ask, their presence is not why I have not bowled the event the past few years...many will recall my rants about the Association's refusal to run a pure classic division. Until they returned to pure scratch, at least in the top division, I voted with my checkbook.)
Post by: Strapper_Squared on April 15, 2008, 01:21:00 PM
S^2
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Post by: Moe on April 15, 2008, 01:56:07 PM
Now when that house hack shoots 790 and 820 in team and singles he can tell everyone he beat pbIII.
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AIM = y2moe99
Post by: n00dlejester on April 15, 2008, 01:59:31 PM
Post by: n00dlejester on April 15, 2008, 02:01:51 PM
quote:
He just wanted to make a few quick bucks. Its pretty obvious, by his series' he prob put fourth minimal effort. He made at least 300 off brackets, not counting jackpots, so he has pocket money for the week. Or he can buy his kids something LOL!
Now when that house hack shoots 790 and 820 in team and singles he can tell everyone he beat pbIII.
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AIM = y2moe99
Actually there's only been one 800 scratch series on this THS. It's no sport shot or PBA shot, but it's not easy by any means. The house hacks from other houses (I bowl league at Howell, so I know) didn't know what to do with longer and heavier oil. Sure there were high scores, but a lot of guys wound up saying "I average 220 at <blah blah>, the lanes are messed up"
Post by: Sportskraz on April 15, 2008, 02:13:42 PM
quote:quote:
He just wanted to make a few quick bucks. Its pretty obvious, by his series' he prob put fourth minimal effort. He made at least 300 off brackets, not counting jackpots, so he has pocket money for the week. Or he can buy his kids something LOL!
Now when that house hack shoots 790 and 820 in team and singles he can tell everyone he beat pbIII.
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AIM = y2moe99
Actually there's only been one 800 scratch series on this THS. It's no sport shot or PBA shot, but it's not easy by any means. The house hacks from other houses (I bowl league at Howell, so I know) didn't know what to do with longer and heavier oil. Sure there were high scores, but a lot of guys wound up saying "I average 220 at <blah blah>, the lanes are messed up"
Ask any bowler, any real bowler. It doesn't matter if you win by an pin or a 100; winning's winning. You almost had aa 800? You never had a 800, you never had your balls!
Post by: Pinbuster on April 15, 2008, 02:14:08 PM
That is where bowling is messed up compared to about any other game. Only professionals play for money in other activities.
Post by: n00dlejester on April 15, 2008, 02:16:19 PM
quote:quote:quote:
He just wanted to make a few quick bucks. Its pretty obvious, by his series' he prob put fourth minimal effort. He made at least 300 off brackets, not counting jackpots, so he has pocket money for the week. Or he can buy his kids something LOL!
Now when that house hack shoots 790 and 820 in team and singles he can tell everyone he beat pbIII.
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AIM = y2moe99
Actually there's only been one 800 scratch series on this THS. It's no sport shot or PBA shot, but it's not easy by any means. The house hacks from other houses (I bowl league at Howell, so I know) didn't know what to do with longer and heavier oil. Sure there were high scores, but a lot of guys wound up saying "I average 220 at <blah blah>, the lanes are messed up"
Ask any bowler, any real bowler. It doesn't matter if you win by an pin or a 100; winning's winning. You almost had aa 800? You never had a 800, you never had your balls!
I love you
Post by: Sportskraz on April 15, 2008, 02:21:51 PM
quote:quote:quote:quote:
He just wanted to make a few quick bucks. Its pretty obvious, by his series' he prob put fourth minimal effort. He made at least 300 off brackets, not counting jackpots, so he has pocket money for the week. Or he can buy his kids something LOL!
Now when that house hack shoots 790 and 820 in team and singles he can tell everyone he beat pbIII.
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AIM = y2moe99
Actually there's only been one 800 scratch series on this THS. It's no sport shot or PBA shot, but it's not easy by any means. The house hacks from other houses (I bowl league at Howell, so I know) didn't know what to do with longer and heavier oil. Sure there were high scores, but a lot of guys wound up saying "I average 220 at <blah blah>, the lanes are messed up"
Ask any bowler, any real bowler. It doesn't matter if you win by an pin or a 100; winning's winning. You almost had aa 800? You never had a 800, you never had your balls!
I love you
What can I say but I live my life 40 boards at a time. Nothing else matters: not the oil, not the balls, not my sandbaggers and all their drama. For those 2.3 seconds or less, I'm free.
Post by: Jorge300 on April 15, 2008, 02:50:18 PM
What about the guy averaging 230 in league, hell we have a guy in our scratch league averaging 236, he is not a professional, does not have his card, yet he won the US Senior Open, should we not allow him to bowl too? Where do you draw the line?
Parker Bohn paid his local and state associations dues, he is a vaild member. He deserves the same priveledges that every other member has, which include bowling his local and state tournaments. Discrimination is wrong on any level, including this one.
And for everyone whining.....he got in 10 brackets, cmon, my league runs 20-30 brackets each week, that 10 probably represnts 50% or less of the available brackets. Those whining, are just babies, afraid to stand up be tested. Bohn can shoot 180 as easy as he can shoot 280. This is all a bunch of BS from sore losers who think because they average 210 on THS that they actually a 210 average bowler instead of the 180 house hack they really are. Try bowling on real conditions instead of easy china and see what you average....oh wait then you'll cry and whine about how tough the lanes are..boo hoo. Bunch of babies.
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Jorge300
Post by: janderson on April 15, 2008, 04:49:53 PM
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J.J. "Waterola Kid" Anderson, the bLowling King : Kill the back row
Post by: charlest on April 15, 2008, 06:14:47 PM
- I know noodlejester; he was NOT complaining, just bringing up a topic of conversation.
- it is the "States", where everyone is allowed to bowl; there are no PBA or professional exceptions. (It's the local equivalnet of Nationals: team, sgls, dbls.)
- it is mainly a handicap event; the scratch portion and its awards are smaller than the handicap awards, in general.
- Parker could have gotten in 40 brackets, instead of just 10. But that would not be Parker.
- The event is being held at Howell Lanes; it is Parker's home house. He probably does it more as a favor to Neil, the owner.
- I watched him sub for Johnny Petraglia 2 weeks ago just after the (very painful) US OPen, which was held just up the road a piece. Parker shot around 660 that night, just trying to relax a bit. I was watching and said hello, mentioning how much less stressed he appeared bowling on the house shot compared to the Ulcer-causing Open shot pattern. He laughed a lot over that.
- Many of the good scratch bowler in the area often have their own side bets as to high series and high all events in the many tournaments like this around the state. Their averages are so high, they rarely stand a chance against the handicap bowlers. Most times, anyway.
- even our own (ballreviews) Krumpy300 shot a 206x in all events, and it was his first time bowling at Howell.
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Post by: mikeywg on April 15, 2008, 06:22:46 PM
But get this, I have to bowl against Mike & Mark Scroggins & Mr 900 Jeff Campbell in our city tournaments.
A pro can be beat. It's just a little harder for us common bowlers to beat them.
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And the almighty
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Post by: Scolai on April 15, 2008, 07:23:08 PM
I've bowled in State Tourneys and large independently sponsored events where pros were entered (before I got my card). Sure, they kicked our collective arses on most occasions, but I did manage to beat some of them in the brackets and make a little cash along the way.
It's all a state of mind. Bowling against those guys should bring out the best in you, not make you want to suck your thumb and cry.
Since those days I've bowled with and against the best in the world. All I remember thinking was, "Make him know you belong out here." At least when I get beaten by the best, I can honestly say I was beaten by the BEST the bowling world has to offer.
Grow up and grow a pair.
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ScolaÃ
I'm Not Fluent In Idiot So Please Speak Slowly & Clearly
Post by: JOE FALCO on April 15, 2008, 07:43:45 PM
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: ThongPrincess on April 15, 2008, 07:45:10 PM
I happen to agree that the pros pay the same membership dues and therefore should be allowed the same rights as other bowlers.
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Post by: Ahhbach on April 15, 2008, 08:25:10 PM
quote:
But get this, I have to bowl against Mike & Mark Scroggins & Mr 900 Jeff Campbell in our city tournaments.
A pro can be beat. It's just a little harder for us common bowlers to beat them.
Next time you see Jeff Campbell tell him there is a guy in New Castle that wants to show him his tumor...
Ahh
PS do this he will laugh his a@@ off.
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'I'm Partial to the Fugue' - Radar O'Reilly
Post by: Atochabsh on April 16, 2008, 01:07:25 AM
quote:
Pro's are pro's for a reason, and the local State and City tourney are for the local bowlers, not emempt touring pros that make $150,000 throwing 6 strikes.
Most of the PBA exempt pros did not make $100,000/yr much less per event, and I bet a good proportion of them did not make $50,000/yr.
Here's the problem from a local assoc. view. If you keep the "masters" tournament closed to only local/city bowlers then your entries will be lower. When your entries are lower your prize fund is lower. When you have local high level bowlers looking for a tournament they want high prize fund. But they also don't want to pay over $100 to get in. So at the local level there's a dilema.
Do we open the tournament up and possibly get some PBA players but get more bowlers.
Or keep it city only and keep the prize fund down?
What do you folks want? Higher participation and the chance at bigger better bowlers or smaller field with lower prize funds?
Or do you just want to eliminante any one that has a PBA card regional or otherwise? If you do that, it will lower local participation and of course prize fund.
Erin
Post by: n00dlejester on April 22, 2008, 10:27:31 AM
Post by: Madiballz23 on April 22, 2008, 03:30:56 PM
quote:
Tell you what .. next time one of these TOURING PROS enters an amateur tournament I'll put him up in all the brackets .. I'm a REAL GAMBLER
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
So where does it list the State tournament as an "amateur" event? If it were truly an amateur event, then the pros wouldn't even be allowed to bowl. It's a Sate tournament, and as as member of the state USBC, he has every right to enter that tournament. He's lived there all his life. Get over it.
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First one to leave 15 ten pins wins!
Post by: JOE FALCO on April 22, 2008, 06:04:33 PM
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O