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Author Topic: PSO Rob Bailey on USBC’s latest proposed ball specifications  (Read 3561 times)

Aloarjr810

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The 11th Frame: Guest column: Veteran pro shop owner Rob Bailey on USBC’s latest proposed ball specifications

https://www.11thframe.com/news/article/10116/Guest-column-Veteran-pro-shop-owner-Rob-Bailey-on-USBCs-latest-proposed
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avabob

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Re: PSO Rob Bailey on USBC’s latest proposed ball specifications
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2018, 11:23:21 AM »
Pretty good article.  I could quibble with some points, but I think the most important point he made was how much bowlers have improved skill wise since I was young.  That seems to be something that very few people want to acknowledge. 

imagonman

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Re: PSO Rob Bailey on USBC’s latest proposed ball specifications
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2018, 12:53:48 PM »
Pretty good article.  I could quibble with some points, but I think the most important point he made was how much bowlers have improved skill wise since I was young.  That seems to be something that very few people want to acknowledge.

Especially that fat retard named Chad {Chud] over @ USBC. They do this & there WILL be fallout!

Juggernaut

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Re: PSO Rob Bailey on USBC’s latest proposed ball specifications
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2018, 01:19:04 PM »
 As many discussions as we’ve had in the past, and as many times as I’ve been “blown up” for my opinions, I’m going to say this:

BULLSHIT!

 A pro shop guy, talking like a pro shop guy, speaks of gloom and doom to be caused by the new regulations. He also looks to place the blame elsewhere by claiming it isn’t the balls, or the drilling’s that are at fault, it’s those crazy easy shots people are putting out.

 Look, I get it. People are fearful and resist change, but in truth, the proposed changes are, in reality, pretty minimal.

 You can still “swing the cg out positive”, drill it to “go long and flip”, and many other things without having to utilize a balance hole to somewhat circumvent the limitation rules put in place to help control ball reactions in the first place.

 Trust me, a “modern” ball with a “modern” cover on it is geometrically stronger than even the best balls from 25 years ago.

 People have been shooting 300’s and 800’s for decades. Modern lanes, conditioners, and oiling machines make it easier than ever before, and even the most basic reactive resin ball is superior to the old u-dots, thunderbolts, angles, and hammers of yesteryear.

 Point being, stop complaining about how “bad” it might be, and start realizing just how good it actually is.

 You give me a scout reactive with a pancake weightblock, pin in with about 4oz topweight before drilling, allow me to drill it with an ounce of finger and three ounces sideweight and adjust the surface, and I can make your head spin like the exorcist, especially on most THS.
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imagonman

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Re: PSO Rob Bailey on USBC’s latest proposed ball specifications
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2018, 01:28:32 PM »
As many discussions as we’ve had in the past, and as many times as I’ve been “blown up” for my opinions, I’m going to say this:

BULLSHIT!

 A pro shop guy, talking like a pro shop guy, speaks of gloom and doom to be caused by the new regulations. He also looks to place the blame elsewhere by claiming it isn’t the balls, or the drilling’s that are at fault, it’s those crazy easy shots people are putting out.

 Look, I get it. People are fearful and resist change, but in truth, the proposed changes are, in reality, pretty minimal.

 You can still “swing the cg out positive”, drill it to “go long and flip”, and many other things without having to utilize a balance hole to somewhat circumvent the limitation rules put in place to help control ball reactions in the first place.

 Trust me, a “modern” ball with a “modern” cover on it is geometrically stronger than even the best balls from 25 years ago.

 People have been shooting 300’s and 800’s for decades. Modern lanes, conditioners, and oiling machines make it easier than ever before, and even the most basic reactive resin ball is superior to the old u-dots, thunderbolts, angles, and hammers of yesteryear.

 Point being, stop complaining about how “bad” it might be, and start realizing just how good it actually is.

 You give me a scout reactive with a pancake weightblock, pin in with about 4oz topweight before drilling, allow me to drill it with an ounce of finger and three ounces sideweight and adjust the surface, and I can make your head spin like the exorcist, especially on most THS.

3 0z side is illegal right now. AND ....."on most THS" ... Then you fully agree w/ the author there?????? WHAT?

Juggernaut

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Re: PSO Rob Bailey on USBC’s latest proposed ball specifications
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2018, 01:46:43 PM »

3 0z side is illegal right now. AND ....."on most THS" ... Then you fully agree w/ the author there?????? WHAT?

No,
I do not agree with him. He is just another “chicken little”, running around screaming the sky is falling.

 And no, 3oz is not legal NOW, but in the future, if the feared rules change passes, it will be, and that is what I’m talking about.

 I’m in the same boat as most of the rest of the people here. I’ve got several pretty good balls with balance holes in them, but even if the rules do change, it isn’t the end of the world.

 The good, dedicated bowlers will adjust and persevere. The others will cry, whine, make empty threats, point fingers, and quit.
Brilliance realizes it has limits, ignorance does not.

LookingForALeftyWall

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Re: PSO Rob Bailey on USBC’s latest proposed ball specifications
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2018, 02:38:10 PM »
  Trust me, a “modern” ball with a “modern” cover on it is geometrically stronger than even the best balls from 25 years ago.


I hate when people use the phrase "Trust me".  It makes me not trust you - even if I happen to agree with what you have said. 

ignitebowling

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Re: PSO Rob Bailey on USBC’s latest proposed ball specifications
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2018, 03:08:33 PM »
Does anyone have the proposed changes suggested by USBC that were sent to the manufactures they can copy/paste on here?

It was in a previous story you have to pay to see.

I use to use weight holes a lot. Now not as much. Typically only on the Rico layout which is a personal favorite of mine. The others I like to use now are for reducing and controlling flare after drilling. As mentioned it can help dial in the balls reaction. Everyone always assumes it is about more, but often times it is about less that is just as important for getting a good ball reaction.

Lowering the diff will change nothing but if it makes people believe that bowling has regained integrity I guess that is fine.

Also curious if older equipment like before will still be allowed for use after the changed go into affect.
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LookingForALeftyWall

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Re: PSO Rob Bailey on USBC’s latest proposed ball specifications
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2018, 03:14:02 PM »
Rob Bailey makes very good points, especially this: 

High scoring factors include 1) more uniform and repeatable oiling conditions than before (thanks to higher end lane machines and strippers such as Kegel and Brunswick). 2) much better lane surfaces than ever before.  Replacing wood with synthetic has eliminated finish breakdown, oil absorbing into the heads, and the idiosyncrasies and sanding, screening, and finishing.  3) players with a stronger physical game, 4) the drive for high scores by proprietors who want to keep happy bowlers around their centers, 5) a lack of checking lanes for legal oiling conditions, 6) Junior bowling programs and all of the training videos, bronze, silver and gold coaches, high school programs, and college programs.  There is no comparison with the talent level today as opposed to 30 or 40 years ago.  These kids are good and throw the ball so much better.  And now you have the 2-handers who can get polyester to cover 30 boards.  I would be willing to bet that the non-equipment factors in this paragraph have far more to do with improved performance over and above ball improvements.


It's not just the balls...

avabob

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Re: PSO Rob Bailey on USBC’s latest proposed ball specifications
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2018, 05:19:51 PM »
The friction of the modern resin ball has dramaticly increased carry potential, but it has also made it more difficult to stay in the pocket with the dramatic transitions in oil patterns caused by the balls.  Prior to resin I use to get a 300 every 2 or three years.  After resin I started getting 2 or 3 per year but my average only went up about 5 pins.  Even if I stayed in the pocket during the transitions my carry would be very volatile.  I can't count the number if you times I shot 300 but left 3 or 4 tens either preceding or after the big gane

HackJandy

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Re: PSO Rob Bailey on USBC’s latest proposed ball specifications
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2018, 05:37:54 PM »
The friction of the modern resin ball has dramaticly increased carry potential, but it has also made it more difficult to stay in the pocket with the dramatic transitions in oil patterns caused by the balls.  Prior to resin I use to get a 300 every 2 or three years.  After resin I started getting 2 or 3 per year but my average only went up about 5 pins.  Even if I stayed in the pocket during the transitions my carry would be very volatile.  I can't count the number if you times I shot 300 but left 3 or 4 tens either preceding or after the big gane

Wow very well said.  Explains a whole lot seen off and on in my somewhat shorter life as well.
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DP3

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Re: PSO Rob Bailey on USBC’s latest proposed ball specifications
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2018, 06:41:01 PM »
So if there's this argument about Transitions coming faster and having to be able to adjust quicker, why are old timers unable to admit that the modern elite bowler is *better* than those elite bowlers of the plastic/urethane era? Ask them all and they'll admit that you rarely had to move once you found the pocket. Not to mention you could get the job done with a Hammer and a White/Yellow Dot for just about everything.

charlest

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Re: PSO Rob Bailey on USBC’s latest proposed ball specifications
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2018, 07:25:42 PM »
So if there's this argument about Transitions coming faster and having to be able to adjust quicker, why are old timers unable to admit that the modern elite bowler is *better* than those elite bowlers of the plastic/urethane era?

Because they astronomically less accurate.

Quote
Ask them all and they'll admit that you rarely had to move once you found the pocket. Not to mention you could get the job done with a Hammer and a White/Yellow Dot for just about everything.

That's inaccurate; you always had to move. Always. The ones who said you didn't were fantasizing or remembering very badly.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

DP3

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Re: PSO Rob Bailey on USBC’s latest proposed ball specifications
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2018, 07:49:06 PM »
Your average league bowler is "astronomically less accurate". The elite pros aren't. Kegel has recorded multi-hour sessions that prove the modern day PBA's bowler's accuracy. Much like the old wise tales of "not having to move", the same could be said about how accurate the bowlers of years past, *not at the elite level*, were.

The top 1% is always the top 1%, but from a physical game point of view, the modern elite player is just as, if not more accurate with a much more advanced physical game.

charlest

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Re: PSO Rob Bailey on USBC’s latest proposed ball specifications
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2018, 07:57:59 PM »
Your average league bowler is "astronomically less accurate". The elite pros aren't. Kegel has recorded multi-hour sessions that prove the modern day PBA's bowler's accuracy. Much like the old wise tales of "not having to move", the same could be said about how accurate the bowlers of years past, *not at the elite level*, were.

The top 1% is always the top 1%, but from a physical game point of view, the modern elite player is just as, if not more accurate with a much more advanced physical game.

You didn't say "Elite" so I didn't address elite. I addressed the common league 210-230 average bowler.

Current elite bowlers adjust just like they did back then. They didn't have to make the huge adjustments they do now due to resin. If you're saying the elite bowlers of "back then" couldn't make the same adjustments as do the Elite of today, I believe that is incorrect. They didn't make them because they didn't have to.
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