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Author Topic: Question about ball prices!  (Read 4537 times)

JOE FALCO

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Question about ball prices!
« on: January 16, 2012, 08:03:06 AM »

I know that there will be some of you that will come back with "everything is higher now" but I have to ask this .. do you really think that prices are jumping so fast that the new TABOO is worth $165 un-drilled? My thoughts are if this becomes a big seller that the companies will take it to mean that bowlers will pay what ever we ask! How much is TOO MUCH?

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Jorge300

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Re: Question about ball prices!
« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2012, 02:51:00 PM »
Juggernaut,

      Do you also wish people still lived in caves, used torches for light, dressed in animal skins, and walked everywhere we went??

 

Since when is technology a bad thing? Why should bowling ball manufacturers be scolded for increasing the technology when we applaud it for everything else? These are the same points I was making to Joe. You can't look at bowling in a vacuum. It is part of a larger spectrum. Our world has inflation, prices go up. Our world has technology and things improve. Why should only bowling be stuck back in the dark ages?

 

Do I wish I could pay $100 for the newest ball, yes, who wouldn't. But that's not realistic. I am not some ball whore who buys all the latest and greatest.  I buy 1 maybe 2 a year.....in a bad year (or good year depending on how you look at it) I might buy 3 total. Usually, they are to replace a ball that has finally worn out, or I find a new ball that fits into a hole in my arsenal where there wasn't a ball to fit it before. As has been pointed out many, many, many times....bowling ball prices have gone up only slightly over where they were 10 or 15 years ago for the high end equipment. A far less of an increase then almost anything else in society. So what is the complaint?

 

Just to show you my point, I went to the US Inflation Calculator, If a bowling ball cost $150 in 1990, that same ball would cost $260 today. If it was 1995, that $150 ball would now cost $223. And if it was 2000, that $150 ball would now cost $197. So if a high end ball now costs $165, we are at least $30 cheaper then where it should be if prices just followed inflation.....so again what is there to complain about??? C'mon Man. 


Jorge300

Jorge300

Juggernaut

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Re: Question about ball prices!
« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2012, 11:01:23 PM »
Q: "Juggernaut,


      Do you also wish people still lived in caves, used torches for light, dressed in animal skins, and walked everywhere we went??"

 

 A: No Jorge, that would be stupid, and is really an asinine and childish question that was probably meant in a demeaning manner. Don't be childish and ridiculous.


 


Q: Since when is technology a bad thing?

 

A: It is only a bad thing when it is overused and abused for all the wrong reasons.

 

 

 

Q: Why should bowling ball manufacturers be scolded for increasing the technology when we applaud it for everything else?

 

A: "WE" don't applaud it for "everything" else. Technology gave us nuclear fission, which gave us nuclear power plants, and that was great. Problem is, it also gave us the atom bomb, and that was bad. Technology also gave us the internal combustion engine, which made the automobile and modern travel a viable reality, but it also gave us atmospheric pollution levels never seen before, and that was bad. MORE IS NOT ALWAYS BETTER!

 

 

 

"These are the same points I was making to Joe. You can't look at bowling in a vacuum. It is part of a larger spectrum. Our world has inflation, prices go up. Our world has technology and things improve."

 

REPLY: Jorge, it is only your OPINION that technology has "improved" bowling. Not everyone agrees. 

 

 

 

Q:Why should only bowling be stuck back in the dark ages?

 

A: What you refer to as "the dark ages", I refer to as the time period that bowling enjoyed it highest membership rates and its highest participation rates. Perhaps the fact that it was a simple sport that could be learned and perfected as a craft contributed to that. Perhaps the fact that it was percieved as a "fair and equitable" SPORT based solely on a players skill level that contributed to that popularity. Maybe that's why it should be "stuck" in its most popular format ever.


 


"Do I wish I could pay $100 for the newest ball, yes, who wouldn't. But that's not realistic."

 

REPLY: This much I agree with.

 

 

 

 "I am not some ball whore who buys all the latest and greatest.  I buy 1 maybe 2 a year.....in a bad year (or good year depending on how you look at it) I might buy 3 total. Usually, they are to replace a ball that has finally worn out, or I find a new ball that fits into a hole in my arsenal where there wasn't a ball to fit it before. As has been pointed out many, many, many times....bowling ball prices have gone up only slightly over where they were 10 or 15 years ago for the high end equipment. A far less of an increase then almost anything else in society. So what is the complaint?"

 

REPLY: The "complaint" is that these price increases have been falsely foisted upon us by the very people I blame for the flooding of the market by using deceptive sales tactics and purposefully sidestepping ABC/USBC standards with technological advances that they KNEW were circumventing the system, then telling us the price increases were because of the technoloical advancements themselves.

 Inflation I understand. Lies, false marketing, and blatantly thumbing your noses at the governing body's rule book in order to create an artificial market and pad your wallet are the things I do not understand.


 


"Just to show you my point, I went to the US Inflation Calculator, If a bowling ball cost $150 in 1990, that same ball would cost $260 today. If it was 1995, that $150 ball would now cost $223. And if it was 2000, that $150 ball would now cost $197. So if a high end ball now costs $165, we are at least $30 cheaper then where it should be if prices just followed inflation.....so again what is there to complain about??? C'mon Man."

 

REPLY: Again, my complaint is NOT with inflation, it is with the manufacturers themselves who have created an artificially inflated market by lying and duping an unwitting and willing public into believing they NEED every ball that comes out, and the owners/proprietors who have done nothing but continually increase oil volumes in order to compensate for the technologically advanced balls that we really never needed in the first place. Bowling had a stage at which it was "perfect" and, just like having too much salt in your food, having too much technology in bowling has made it much less palatable.



 



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Edited by Juggernaut on 1/20/2012 at 0:03 AM
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Sunshine n Lollipops

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Re: Question about ball prices!
« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2012, 05:42:45 AM »
C'mon, Juggsy.  Ball manufacturers "duping" the public into thinking they need their new product?  How is that any different than any marketing dept. of any company doing the same thing?  What do you think every television commercial, radio ad, newspaper and magazine ad, pop-up ads on the internet are designed to do?  Most of the American buying public can and does resist that.  I sure hope you're not walking around with the latest IPhone, juggsy.  That would tell me you succombed to the latest Apple spiel.

 

As far as whether people need the new stuff or not is up to them.  As Carmen Salvino says in the Nexxus P+R video, "this ball will allow amateurs to play the lanes like a pro".  Now, do you really think any bowler who is any good is going to believe that?  I hope not.

 

You and Falco are almost as reliable as Ground Hog Day with your annual rants.  Joe rails against what he feels are too high ball prices and you come on to complain that you haven't been able to adjust your game to take advantage of the new equipment.  I don't get that.  There are weak shell reactive balls, urethane balls with real cores in them, and more than enough old urethanes with pancakes in them to suit just about any bowler that cannot adjust to what must be done with the new reactives.  What is the problem?     



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kidlost2000

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Re: Question about ball prices!
« Reply #34 on: January 20, 2012, 06:30:38 AM »
Ball prices aren't that bad. Im not big on $159 for HP(online) bowling balls but considering that they really aren't needed I can get away with the super aggressive or less aggressive stuff that is $130 or less
 
Example the DV8 Reckless I got a little while back. Wow way way stronger then expected. Got the Too Reckless and guess what.....still a very very strong ball. $115.
 
With the high end technology on covers it will trickle down to the lower price range equipment withen a year. Like a car, don't be sold on the brand new and you will find some great deals on what ever style bowling ball you need.
 
Don't but the hype unless you want to pay for it, 


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Edited by kidlost2000 on 1/21/2012 at 12:52 PM
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

Juggernaut

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Re: Question about ball prices!
« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2012, 11:26:01 AM »
Q: C'mon, Juggsy.  Ball manufacturers "duping" the public into thinking they need their new product? 

 

A: "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  People can easily be persuaded to accept the most inferior ideas or useless products." H.L. Mencken.

 

All it takes is convincing them it is a good thing, or finding something that helps a great majority lie to themselves and convince themselves they are "special" or "elite", which is EXACTLY what they have done.

 

 

Q: How is that any different than any marketing dept. of any company doing the same thing?  What do you think every television commercial, radio ad, newspaper and magazine ad, pop-up ads on the internet are designed to do? 

 

A: SADLY, I agree with this statement. It doesn't make it the proper thing to do, yet does explain what they are designed to do.

 

 

 "Most of the American buying public can and does resist that.  I sure hope you're not walking around with the latest IPhone, juggsy.  That would tell me you succombed to the latest Apple spiel."

 

  REPLY: I can resist, often have, and often do. And my phone is a several years old LG-VX8560 that does, let me see, oh yea, it makes PHONE CALLS. I also am throwing a "CLAW" Hammer from 2002, and have an undrilled Nitro/R and A.M.F. XS in the closet.


 


 "As far as whether people need the new stuff or not is up to them.  As Carmen Salvino says in the Nexxus P+R video, "this ball will allow amateurs to play the lanes like a pro".  Now, do you really think any bowler who is any good is going to believe that?  I hope not."

 

REPLY: It isn't the "good" bowlers, or the "knowledgable" ones that are changing the face of bowling, it is the great masses of un-informed or lesser talented bowlers who want to BE ALLOWED to "play the lanes like a pro" by buying equipment instead of developing the physical skills to do so. There are FAR AND AWAY more of these types of bowlers than there are those who wish to challenge themselves to master the skills necessary to be able to do so on their skill alone.


 


 "You and Falco are almost as reliable as Ground Hog Day with your annual rants.  Joe rails against what he feels are too high ball prices and you come on to complain that you haven't been able to adjust your game to take advantage of the new equipment.  I don't get that."

 

REPLY: Sorry that you do not understand. They really are two different points (mine and Joe's), but they are tied together loosely by some things, and the prices that he complains about are often masked behind the facade of technological development, technological advancements that really weren't needed by the "good" bowlers, only by lesser skilled participants who were looking for "the easy way" to score.

 

 

 

  "There are weak shell reactive balls, urethane balls with real cores in them, and more than enough old urethanes with pancakes in them to suit just about any bowler that cannot adjust to what must be done with the new reactives.  What is the problem?"

 

REPLY: The "problem" is, that the technological "advancements" did not work equally well for everyone. The people who were already very accurate and could develop the power necessary to score well didn't receive nearly the benefits of those whose skill set WAS just outside the preffered limits, but was moved into the acceptable range by the changes.

 And me, personally? I have drilled several (read that as MANY) different pieces, both weak and strong, with several (read that as MANY also) drillings, both weak and strong, and have NOT been able to reproduce the increase in average for myself that MANY formerely considered "lesser skilled" players have been able to since the resin era started. If their talent level has stayed the same (and it has), and my talent level has stayed the same (and it has), the only thing that changed was the technology available, yet their averages have increased geometrically while mine have stayed static.
 

 

 

 You and I have jousted before, and it has always been productive. While I can appreciate your take on things, because your intellect tends to show through your sarcasm, we probably will continue to disagree on many things and many subjects. That is not a bad thing though, because it gives us the opportunity to discuss these differences in opinions on an intellectual level. That can only serve to improve undersstanding of the subject as a whole.
 I wish things WERE as cut and dried as you try to make them out to be, but regretfully, they are not, and cannot, be that way, because conditions effect us all in different ways, which makes the resolutions different for all of us also, and impossible for some. Perhaps I fall into the "impossible" category. If so, I apologize for wasting peoples time. 


 


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Sunshine n Lollipops

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Re: Question about ball prices!
« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2012, 12:54:57 PM »
Sorry, buddy, just not buying it.  Cream rises to the top...in all sports.  Bowlers of superior skills or knowledge should be able to beat those that don't have the same skill or knowledge no matter what is in their bags. 



 Don't believe in the Uzi, it just went off in my hand.  I, I believe in love.  

Juggernaut

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Re: Question about ball prices!
« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2012, 05:07:01 PM »
My apologies to Joe Falco, as it seems we have totally hijacked and derailed this thread. That being said, here is my reply.

 

 

 "Sorry, buddy, just not buying it."

REPLY: That's OK, because I am not asking you to "buy" anything. Like I said, we are all individuals, and as such, all have different situations to deal with. I'm sure that some factors effect me more than they do you, because you are dealing with an entirely different set of people there than I am here, and those people tend to create the untenable conditions that I have to deal with here. Everything is relative I suppose.

 

 

 

 "Cream rises to the top...in all sports.  Bowlers of superior skills or knowledge should be able to beat those that don't have the same skill or knowledge no matter what is in their bags."

 

REPLY: You have a great ability to make things sound so "concrete", yet under further inspection, your statements are too simplistic in their scope. I agree that the best, more highly skilled bowlers SHOULD be able to prevail, but the advancements have changed what is considered "skill".

 When you so drastically alter the playing conditions so that you completely change the way the sport is played, you have turned the sport into something it was never intended to be.

 

 

 

IN SPITE of what you may think, I only want what is best for bowling as a whole. Having the scoring pace artificially inflated by technology instead of skill has proven NOT to be beneficial, REGARDLESS of who wins.

 

 

 

 

  
 
Edited by Juggernaut on 1/21/2012 at 6:10 PM
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