BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: thedjs on February 17, 2020, 06:26:09 PM
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I have a 14lb. ball (Ebonite Turbo/R) with an RG of 2.59 and diff. of .040. I need something weaker for ultra dry lanes. So, I was considering the Storm Tropical Surge which has an RG of 2.60 and Diff. of .025. Based on these numbers I would expect that the Storm ball would have a little more length and less flair with a resulting effect of less hook. However, I am being told by others, who are supposed to know, that the Surge is just about the same as the Turbo/R and I would not see any overall difference in their performance. I'm told the same about the Brunswick Rhino which has an RG of 2.55 and a Diff. of .030. Does this make any sense?
I don't know much about the specs. on bowling balls but among the balls I own, the higher the Diff. the more the ball hooks. If that's true then the Turbo/R should hook more that the Surge or Rhino.
Any input would really be appreciated.
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Core specs are pretty similar. The coverstock strength of each is the big difference unknown when comparing across different brands.
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Core specs are pretty similar. The coverstock strength of each is the big difference unknown when comparing across different brands.
Bingo!
In general, AFAIHL, coverstock composition and surface preparation rule core specs and drilling. Theory still has cover is 70% of reaction, though the rang could probably be stretched from 50% to 95%, depending on the core and the cover. Basically, the core only modifies what the coverstock is capable of doing for the bowler's release.
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I don't have one but you may want to check out the Brunswick Twist. I believe it may be the closest thing to plastic but still being reactive. I don't have any experience with the Twist but there are likely to be a few on here that are.
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You basically have 2 choices. 1. You get a Twist with a long pin to PAP (6 inches) or, 2. You go with a plastic ball with a core. The diff on a Twist is .018 which should be quite a bit smoother on the backend than the Turbo and Rhino. Plus, the cover on the Turbo is fairly strong as it was on The One when it was released. The GB10.7 is not a weak cover.
Secondly, the covers of both the Turbo and Messenger come in at 500/2000 before polish. You could try to go to a true 4000 before adding polish and that could help the ball push further down the lane before hooking.
Last....Is the PSO going out on the lanes with you to physically watch what the ball is doing so he can give a good recommendation as to what he feels should be done? If not, then he should.
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You basically have 2 choices. 1. You get a Twist with a long pin to PAP (6 inches) or, 2. You go with a plastic ball with a core. The diff on a Twist is .018 which should be quite a bit smoother on the backend than the Turbo and Rhino. Plus, the cover on the Turbo is fairly strong as it was on The One when it was released. The GB10.7 is not a weak cover.
Secondly, the covers of both the Turbo and Messenger come in at 500/2000 before polish. You could try to go to a true 4000 before adding polish and that could help the ball push further down the lane before hooking.
Last....Is the PSO going out on the lanes with you to physically watch what the ball is doing so he can give a good recommendation as to what he feels should be done? If not, then he should.
Thanks for the reply.
I have the Turbo at 4000 with polish and it's not bad for one game depending on the oil. After that I have to make big moves left.
I was wondering, if I got a Rhino or Tropical Surge and had it drilled with the 6" pin to pap, would that not give me what I'm looking for? As far as the Twist, I've never seen one and I'm a little afraid of it being too weak. (From what I've read, it's supposed to be one step above plastic) I have a Hammer Widow Spare but I don't get good pin mix with it and leave a lot of 10 pins. I'd like to stick with reactive.
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The Twist will fall in between the Turbo and Widow Spare. When you have a ball as weak as the Twist; the difference between putting the pin 4.5 inches from your PAP and putting the pin 6 inches is not going to make a significant difference in terms of ball reaction. It would on the Turbo, but not the Twist. So my thought is pin 5-6 inches from PAP and a 45-50 degree VAL angle.
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Core specs are pretty similar. The coverstock strength of each is the big difference unknown when comparing across different brands.
Rather than going out and buying a whole other ball, just adjust your coverstocks! In the end, it's all about getting strikes right? Rather than polished, take your cover down to 2000, even 1000 if that works for you! But the point is......just tweak coverstock to the point where it is smoother, more controllable and dependable for the shot you are playing on.
I have two Scout Reactives drilled similarly, one with surface and one without, and I interchange them according to how the light oil situation breaks down!
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If you want to control the shape, go with a 1 or 2 " pin to pap. At 6 inch pin to pap, it will reduce the flare quite a bit, but you could still get a lot of flip on the backend (depending on oil pattern or your release specs) I found that with short pin to pap drills you are going to get a more controlled reaction, especially on the back end.
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If you want to control the shape, go with a 1 or 2 " pin to pap. At 6 inch pin to pap, it will reduce the flare quite a bit, but you could still get a lot of flip on the backend (depending on oil pattern or your release specs) I found that with short pin to pap drills you are going to get a more controlled reaction, especially on the back end.
What about the length? Do you get more or less length with a 1" to 2" pin to pap over a 5" to 6"?
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If you want to control the shape, go with a 1 or 2 " pin to pap. At 6 inch pin to pap, it will reduce the flare quite a bit, but you could still get a lot of flip on the backend (depending on oil pattern or your release specs) I found that with short pin to pap drills you are going to get a more controlled reaction, especially on the back end.
What about the length? Do you get more or less length with a 1" to 2" pin to pap over a 5" to 6"?
Little to no flare still equates to control regardless if it is a 2 inch pin or 6 inch pin. The main difference is the amount of push. The 2 inch pin will still start up sooner but the core being "laid down" is what causes the control on the back end. With the 6 inch pin, the ball pushes further down lane but the core is still in a controlled position because the core is still a significant distance away from the leveraged position. With what you are looking for; you would want something with a low diff and a long pin to PAP placement to give you something between the spare ball and the Turbo.
A 2 inch pin layout is when the ball still has plenty of push but you are wanting to straighten your angles and control the backend. The 6 inch pin layout is for when other balls you have are hooking too soon from not enough oil in the heads and need that added push while still controlling the back end.
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If you want to control the shape, go with a 1 or 2 " pin to pap. At 6 inch pin to pap, it will reduce the flare quite a bit, but you could still get a lot of flip on the backend (depending on oil pattern or your release specs) I found that with short pin to pap drills you are going to get a more controlled reaction, especially on the back end.
What about the length? Do you get more or less length with a 1" to 2" pin to pap over a 5" to 6"?
Little to no flare still equates to control regardless if it is a 2 inch pin or 6 inch pin. The main difference is the amount of push. The 2 inch pin will still start up sooner but the core being "laid down" is what causes the control on the back end. With the 6 inch pin, the ball pushes further down lane but the core is still in a controlled position because the core is still a significant distance away from the leveraged position. With what you are looking for; you would want something with a low diff and a long pin to PAP placement to give you something between the spare ball and the Turbo.
A 2 inch pin layout is when the ball still has plenty of push but you are wanting to straighten your angles and control the backend. The 6 inch pin layout is for when other balls you have are hooking too soon from not enough oil in the heads and need that added push while still controlling the back end.
So if I'm looking to get a new ball with a lower Diff. and drill it with a 5 1/2" or 6" pin to pap, which one of these would you recommend? Brunswick Rhino RG 2.54/Diff. .030, Storm Tropical Surge RG 2.60/Diff. .024, 900 Global After Dark Hybrid RG 2.57/Diff. .028. I might be able to get a Columbia Beast RG 2.54/Diff. .033 so that would be a possibility.
The Turbo has been a good ball for me but with the Gamebreaker cover stock, it's just too much for me in the 2nd and 3rd games.
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I found the perfect ball for dry lanes. I am a senior with low speed. The ball I use is
a Spare + plastic ball with a very good weight block,
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That Spare + is rg=2.53 and diff+.50
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That Spare + is rg=2.53 and diff+.50
Thanks for the reply. I have the Hammer Widow Spare with an rg of 2.48 and diff of .058. My problem with it is I leave a lot of 10 pins and miss too many of them. Rather stick with something reactive. Thanks again.
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Big fan of 90s reactive tech off ebay for dry lanes. My first out of bag is a Rhino Pro Purple and a Slingshot with PK17 (cover from the 90s) for games 2 and 3 (Rhino is better with fresh cover for me) in dry house where I bowl league.
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If you want to control the shape, go with a 1 or 2 " pin to pap. At 6 inch pin to pap, it will reduce the flare quite a bit, but you could still get a lot of flip on the backend (depending on oil pattern or your release specs) I found that with short pin to pap drills you are going to get a more controlled reaction, especially on the back end.
What about the length? Do you get more or less length with a 1" to 2" pin to pap over a 5" to 6"?
Little to no flare still equates to control regardless if it is a 2 inch pin or 6 inch pin. The main difference is the amount of push. The 2 inch pin will still start up sooner but the core being "laid down" is what causes the control on the back end. With the 6 inch pin, the ball pushes further down lane but the core is still in a controlled position because the core is still a significant distance away from the leveraged position. With what you are looking for; you would want something with a low diff and a long pin to PAP placement to give you something between the spare ball and the Turbo.
A 2 inch pin layout is when the ball still has plenty of push but you are wanting to straighten your angles and control the backend. The 6 inch pin layout is for when other balls you have are hooking too soon from not enough oil in the heads and need that added push while still controlling the back end.
So if I'm looking to get a new ball with a lower Diff. and drill it with a 5 1/2" or 6" pin to pap, which one of these would you recommend? Brunswick Rhino RG 2.54/Diff. .030, Storm Tropical Surge RG 2.60/Diff. .024, 900 Global After Dark Hybrid RG 2.57/Diff. .028. I might be able to get a Columbia Beast RG 2.54/Diff. .033 so that would be a possibility.
The Turbo has been a good ball for me but with the Gamebreaker cover stock, it's just too much for me in the 2nd and 3rd games.
Of those you mentioned, I would go with the Tropical simply because the diff is the lowest. 3 balls that come to mind are the Tropical, Messenger, and Twist all due to the high RG and low diff numbers. I believe that if you start going with balls that have diffs in the .030 range that you will start getting too close to the Turbo and you need that separation.
The Messenger is 2.59 and .021
The Twist is 2.59 and .018 (15lbs) website does not list the 14 lb numbers
Tropical Surge is 2.60 and .025
Honestly I think you could go with any of those 3 balls and have something that fits perfectly between the Widow Spare and the Turbo.
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If you want to control the shape, go with a 1 or 2 " pin to pap. At 6 inch pin to pap, it will reduce the flare quite a bit, but you could still get a lot of flip on the backend (depending on oil pattern or your release specs) I found that with short pin to pap drills you are going to get a more controlled reaction, especially on the back end.
What about the length? Do you get more or less length with a 1" to 2" pin to pap over a 5" to 6"?
Little to no flare still equates to control regardless if it is a 2 inch pin or 6 inch pin. The main difference is the amount of push. The 2 inch pin will still start up sooner but the core being "laid down" is what causes the control on the back end. With the 6 inch pin, the ball pushes further down lane but the core is still in a controlled position because the core is still a significant distance away from the leveraged position. With what you are looking for; you would want something with a low diff and a long pin to PAP placement to give you something between the spare ball and the Turbo.
A 2 inch pin layout is when the ball still has plenty of push but you are wanting to straighten your angles and control the backend. The 6 inch pin layout is for when other balls you have are hooking too soon from not enough oil in the heads and need that added push while still controlling the back end.
So if I'm looking to get a new ball with a lower Diff. and drill it with a 5 1/2" or 6" pin to pap, which one of these would you recommend? Brunswick Rhino RG 2.54/Diff. .030, Storm Tropical Surge RG 2.60/Diff. .024, 900 Global After Dark Hybrid RG 2.57/Diff. .028. I might be able to get a Columbia Beast RG 2.54/Diff. .033 so that would be a possibility.
The Turbo has been a good ball for me but with the Gamebreaker cover stock, it's just too much for me in the 2nd and 3rd games.
Of those you mentioned, I would go with the Tropical simply because the diff is the lowest. 3 balls that come to mind are the Tropical, Messenger, and Twist all due to the high RG and low diff numbers. I believe that if you start going with balls that have diffs in the .030 range that you will start getting too close to the Turbo and you need that separation.
The Messenger is 2.59 and .021
The Twist is 2.59 and .018 (15lbs) website does not list the 14 lb numbers
Tropical Surge is 2.60 and .025
Honestly I think you could go with any of those 3 balls and have something that fits perfectly between the Widow Spare and the Turbo.
Thanks Steven. I'm leaning towards the Surge. My pro shop can't get any more Messengers' and, to be honest, the Twist scares me a little with it's really low diff.
Since the Surge is a weaker ball, would you think you would still drill it with a long pin to pap (say 5 1/2" to 6") or just drill it like the Turbo which is about 4 1/2" from the pap.
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I would not go any less than 5 inches on your pin distance. With a weaker ball, you may not see any significant difference between a 5 inch pin and a 6 inch pin. If you are a little squirmish over going the full 6 inches with your pin to PAP distance; then maybe go with a 5 - 5 1/4 pin distance and use cover adjustments if needed. The main thing is having enough separation from the Turbo that once it becomes too much; then you can ball down to the Surge and have the success you are looking for.
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I would not go any less than 5 inches on your pin distance. With a weaker ball, you may not see any significant difference between a 5 inch pin and a 6 inch pin. If you are a little squirmish over going the full 6 inches with your pin to PAP distance; then maybe go with a 5 - 5 1/4 pin distance and use cover adjustments if needed. The main thing is having enough separation from the Turbo that once it becomes too much; then you can ball down to the Surge and have the success you are looking for.
Thanks again. I may have made a big mistake but I decided to go with the 900 Global After Dark Hybrid. It comes at 1500 polished and has an RG of 2.57 with a Diff. of .028. I told the pro shop operator to drill it with a 5" pin to pap but I may call him back and tell him to go to 6". From what I've read and after looking at several videos on you tube, I felt that this ball might be closer to what I'm looking for. I'll make a post after I get it and use it for a few weeks.
Thanks again.
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After Dark has plenty of fans on here. Pretty sure you made a good decision 5 or 6"