Post by: Easy10pins on June 23, 2006, 10:57:54 AM
I just want to get opinions on this. How fair is this to the average/above average bowler to have a PBA professional bowling in a local tournament? (unless he is no longer a touring pro).
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Solid 7 Pin?? 299 Game??!! WTF
Edited on 6/23/2006 6:54 PM
Post by: Easy10pins on June 23, 2006, 07:15:11 PM
But I did realize I should have bowled anyway. Even though I have never bowled in that particular house before, I still should have at least TRIED.
Thanks for giving me new resolve. I will take that to this weekends tournament.
I'm more than certain Max Bob will be there again.
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Solid 7 Pin?? 299 Game??!! WTF
Post by: Joe Jr on June 23, 2006, 07:16:17 PM
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- Joe
Formerly Richard Cranium
www.Brunswickbowling.com
www.Brunswickinsiders.com
Post by: Easy10pins on June 23, 2006, 07:19:13 PM
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Solid 7 Pin?? 299 Game??!! WTF
Post by: Bluff on June 23, 2006, 07:20:16 PM
quote:
This past weekend, Hawaii TV Bowling had a tournament at Barber's Point Bowling Lanes here on Oahu. To my surprise, Robert Smith aka Maximum Bob had entered the tournament. Needless to say I put my gear back in my car and didn't bother wasting the entry fee. He did win the tourny, BTW.
I just want to get opinions on this. How fair is this to the average/above average bowler to have a PBA professional bowling in a local tournament? (unless he is no longer a touring pro).
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Solid 7 Pin?? 299 Game??!! WTF
Edited on 6/23/2006 6:54 PM
lamof what a looser you are hahaha why u even bowl pba reginal anyway? cry when some national member bowl? bet you are talk!!!!!!
lol
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Looser have to paid for balls. Bolwers keep buying! Yea I got Balls!!!
Post by: Easy10pins on June 23, 2006, 07:24:50 PM
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Solid 7 Pin?? 299 Game??!! WTF
Post by: jimensminger on June 23, 2006, 07:33:56 PM
Post by: jimensminger on June 23, 2006, 07:42:07 PM
Post by: Easy10pins on June 23, 2006, 07:55:08 PM
I digress.
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Solid 7 Pin?? 299 Game??!! WTF
Edited on 6/23/2006 7:52 PM
Post by: jimensminger on June 23, 2006, 08:00:54 PM
Post by: jimensminger on June 23, 2006, 08:49:07 PM
Post by: MTFD24 on June 23, 2006, 09:01:33 PM
Also the prestigious Obenauer Masters sees them as well, and NO, they haven't won that every year either!
I bowl in them to see where I stand, not only against "The Best in the area", but to "test" myself.
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The Older We Get, The Better We Were
www.MTFD.com - a NY State Vol. Fire Department
www.BowlWNY.com - local & national stories by Joe Ciccone
http://www.FDracing.com The worlds fastest firemen in the origional Xtreme Games
24 is not my age, IQ, or bowling average, but my firematic number, at least I think that what it is
Post by: jd1319 on June 24, 2006, 12:03:32 AM
Just a side note, I bowled in Louisville recently, and saw the final standings for their city tourny, with Mike Wolf winning the all-events actual, with a mindnumbing 2397 for 9 games. He didn't win singles, doubles, team, with or without handicap, but all-event was his going away.
Post by: Brandon Riley on June 24, 2006, 12:54:37 AM
Post by: DukeHarding on June 24, 2006, 01:25:45 AM
quote:
This past weekend, Hawaii TV Bowling had a tournament at Barber's Point Bowling Lanes here on Oahu. To my surprise, Robert Smith aka Maximum Bob had entered the tournament. Needless to say I put my gear back in my car and didn't bother wasting the entry fee. He did win the tourny, BTW.
I just want to get opinions on this. How fair is this to the average/above average bowler to have a PBA professional bowling in a local tournament? (unless he is no longer a touring pro).
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Solid 7 Pin?? 299 Game??!! WTF
Edited on 6/23/2006 6:54 PM
Just curious, how much was the entry fee?
What was the paydown from 1st place?
Based on how many entries?
PBA members bowling in local tournaments, and winning connsistently, will kill entries. If the entry was not in the $200-$300 range, more like $75, I would bowl. See how I shoed up.
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Duke Harding
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bowling Coaches Web Site Link (http://"http://www.bowlingcoach.com/")
Post by: 302efi on June 24, 2006, 01:28:07 AM
You people talk about coward this, and coward that...lol... When you have superstar PBA memebers bowling in a small house tourney, tell me you would "try your best" ? LOL...STFU
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Nothing but Dyno-Thane
Live by the hook...Die by the hook
Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...
Post by: Joe Jr on June 24, 2006, 01:44:09 AM
quote:
I think you did the right thing by packing up your gear and leaving. Theres no way in hell I would donate my money either !
You people talk about coward this, and coward that...lol... When you have superstar PBA memebers bowling in a small house tourney, tell me you would "try your best" ? LOL...STFU
It's amazing that people who would leave a tournament because a proffessional is in, even bowl in tournaments. What's the point of even bowling a tournament at all if your not there to test yourself againest others better then you? Do you only enter tournaments when you are the best in the field? When I was 15 in my 2nd year bowling I bowled againest JT USA members and got my but kicked but you know what it made me a better player, I learned from it and from them.
STFU? Please, go back to your house wall...
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- Joe
Formerly Richard Cranium
www.Brunswickbowling.com
www.Brunswickinsiders.com
Post by: 302efi on June 24, 2006, 01:58:34 AM
I'm sure glad there still some dumbazz tourney money donators out there !
Who else would these big superstar PBA guys get there lunch money from ?
Do you bowl on TV with the big boys ? No, your not good enough, right ?
...so you bowl little local tourneys, right ? But..then why the hell is the superstar star PBA bowler in YOUR local tourney ? He should be with people in his skill level...
Hmmm....."Houston, we have a problem"
Spare me the, "You got to bowl with PBA guys and let them take your money, before you can get better"
...or, "You should donate you $200 intrance fee to the PBA star, so you can test yourself and see how you match up to him"...
In the words of Mr. T:
"I pitty the fool"
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Nothing but Dyno-Thane
Live by the hook...Die by the hook
Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...
Post by: Let It Bleed on June 24, 2006, 02:02:13 AM
quote:
I think you did the right thing by packing up your gear and leaving. Theres no way in hell I would donate my money either !
You people talk about coward this, and coward that...lol... When you have superstar PBA memebers bowling in a small house tourney, tell me you would "try your best" ? LOL...STFU
We have a weekly sweeper in our area that has Eugene McCune come out every week...there was concern before about him bowling in it...scaring people away from entering...but we've seen a bigger amounts of bowlers come in every week to test their skills against the conditions...not McCune...if they run into him (I have once already)...it's a tough draw and you do what you can...personally...I like drawing him, granted I'm about 0-5 lifetime, but I see it as a great learning experience...just my two cents
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"Chicks dig the trip 4" -Randy Pederson
Post by: DON DRAPER on June 24, 2006, 08:25:54 AM
Post by: Joe Jr on June 24, 2006, 10:12:51 AM
If you don't have the drive to bowl againest people better then you, you shouldn't be in tournaments at all. Go back to your league, average 220 and shoot your little honor scores, but come on here complaining when someone more talented then you shows up.
PS Steve Wilson wasn't even in the cut trough 4 of the 5 games at our last sweeper.
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- Joe
Formerly Richard Cranium
www.Brunswickbowling.com
www.Brunswickinsiders.com
Post by: Easy10pins on June 24, 2006, 11:27:23 AM
I would definitely like to see the stat sheets for the whole tournament.
Going out to practice this morning at the house tomorrows tourney will be held at.
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Solid 7 Pin?? 299 Game??!! WTF
Post by: JOE FALCO on June 24, 2006, 11:46:33 AM
quote:
Just curious, how much was the entry fee?
What was the paydown from 1st place?
Based on how many entries?
PBA members bowling in local tournaments, and winning connsistently, will kill entries. If the entry was not in the $200-$300 range, more like $75, I would bowl. See how I shoed up.
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Duke Harding
Exactly what I feel!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: Gazoo on June 24, 2006, 12:12:43 PM
Post by: 302efi on June 24, 2006, 12:16:55 PM
quote:
...There is a slight difference between bowling against the best players in a area and surrounding area and going up against national tour players....
...If they have to bowl against local bowlers in some tourny to pocket a grand, their career is probably not going in the right direction.
Very well said !
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Nothing but Dyno-Thane
Live by the hook...Die by the hook
Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...
Post by: Crankenstein300 on June 24, 2006, 12:18:42 PM
Personally, I don't mind bowling against them as I try and learn something from these guys when I watch them. But it's your money so if you wanna pack up the balls and leave, then its your call.
Post by: Tweener92 on June 24, 2006, 12:26:35 PM
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Member of The Track Legion
Edited on 6/24/2006 5:16 PM
Post by: Easy10pins on June 24, 2006, 01:41:15 PM
However I do tomorrow, I will post up the standings.
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Solid 7 Pin?? 299 Game??!! WTF
Post by: Jeff Carter on June 24, 2006, 04:48:17 PM
I'm sorry for going off on a rant about this, but i've worked to hard for to long for people to say that i'm not allowed to compete because of the level that ive attained. You say its not fair to you, well i say its not fair to me. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, well this is mine
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Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
Post by: 302efi on June 24, 2006, 05:01:36 PM
Since you put so much time into bowling, like:
-Praticing 5 times a week, 25+ games each session
-Coached by good coaches
-Been at it for 20+ years
-Bowling is you job
...how in the hell do you expect a local tourney player to compete with ???
So don't cry that your so good nobody want's you to play with them !!! ROFL !!!
All you do is just take the little guys money, and say "good job, you tried"
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Nothing but Dyno-Thane
Live by the hook...Die by the hook
Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...
Post by: T Brockette on June 24, 2006, 05:03:13 PM
Can I keep up with these guys, no way. But you can bet that I would go down swinging, instead of not sacking up and trying my best. Once again, Jeff great post.
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Tracy
www.absolutebowling.com
Post by: smash8-10split on June 24, 2006, 05:10:36 PM
quote:quote:
...There is a slight difference between bowling against the best players in a area and surrounding area and going up against national tour players....
...If they have to bowl against local bowlers in some tourny to pocket a grand, their career is probably not going in the right direction.
Very well said !
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Nothing but Dyno-Thane
Live by the hook...Die by the hook
Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...
here is the deal, they have EVERY right to bowl in these tourneys. So what if they win? YOU DON'T pay their bills, buy their gas to get there ect ect. I have accually seen a very accomplished bowler (nick vogelesang) come to a 9 pin no tap tourney everyone gets in at our local house and bring about 15 people after a regional was over.. i got the pleasure to bowl against him and actually beat him. You can't be scared. I had a conversation with him after our match and he said those regional guys were really pissed he came and got in it because he would win. He told me the exact same thing, they don't pay my rent, my bills, or worry about the things i have to worry about
well put.
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hold my hammer, while i NAIL your girlfriend.
Post by: Atochabsh on June 24, 2006, 05:21:40 PM
quote:
All you do is just take the little guys money, and say "good job, you tried"
Now wait a minute. Is the above statement all anyone that wins tournaments does? Whether you are in the 230 skill range, or the 200 skill range or the 180 skill range. If you win a tournament, you have taken some "little guys'" money. It might have been some 150 (or 130) average bowler just getting their feet wet in tournament format at a weekend house no tap tourny. But you still took their money.
Its all relative. Just because you are averaging over 200 doesn't mean you are exempt from being beaten by a bigger better bowler.
If you were a top world player and wanted to stay on top of your game where would you go during the off season to play? How do you think these guys and gals stay so good? They have to work and they have to keep in competition no matter what. Its always your perogative to not bowl, even if your fees are non refundable. If the tournament rules say "no PBA card holders" then you can be assured that no Robert Smiths or Chris Barnes will show up. Otherwise, you take your chances.
Erin
Post by: Jeff Carter on June 24, 2006, 09:05:42 PM
Other than that, my job is to bowl to win. If you dont have that attitude, step off the porch !!!
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Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
Edited on 6/24/2006 9:02 PM
Post by: Easy10pins on June 24, 2006, 09:23:24 PM
quote:
yeah dude, post some vids! which leagues are you bowling in now?
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Jasen Ono
I've been trying to get a team together from people I work with but they flaked on me at the last minute. So I may end up being the 6th Man on whatever team again.
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Solid 7 Pin?? 299 Game??!! WTF
Post by: Joe Jr on June 24, 2006, 09:37:00 PM
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- Joe
Formerly Richard Cranium
www.Brunswickbowling.com
www.Brunswickinsiders.com
Post by: 302efi on June 24, 2006, 09:37:12 PM
quote:
If you want something you should work for it, not have it handed to you by inferior competition.
Well that the exact oppisite of what your doing when you enter tourneys with regular bowlers in them ! They are inferior competition and you totally whoop their arse...mite not be fun, but it pays your bills, right ?
...and thats another win under your belt so you can stay on Storm staff, right ?
Keep in mind, I DO bowl in 2 shootout leagues WITH PBA memebers in them (Jason Hurd, Shawn Evans ect...) so I know my odds when I step into a tourny.
I just find it ROFL funny that you complain that some people don't want you in their local tourneys !...I mean, your up there with the best, then bowl with the best...Bowl pot games with them, bowl more tourneys with them ect...
When you start biting the hand that feeds you, then what ?
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Nothing but Dyno-Thane
Live by the hook...Die by the hook
Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...
Post by: Joe Jr on June 24, 2006, 09:44:45 PM
quote:
302efi, Sounds to me that your scared of bowlers that are better than you. Your not even good enough to hold their ball bag. Crybaby, cry cry cry.
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Some bowling here and some bowling there.
Quoted for truth.
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- Joe
Formerly Richard Cranium
www.Brunswickbowling.com
www.Brunswickinsiders.com
Post by: 302efi on June 24, 2006, 09:56:38 PM
I usually never get in pissing contests on the net, its like The Special Olympics, even if you win you lose.
So...Brunswick Lefty, you keep being a BrunsNick wannabe, but on the worng side
...and Bowling 300 900, I see you been around since urethane, so you might be out dated by now
I'm done...and bowling takes another turn for the worse..LOL
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Nothing but Dyno-Thane
Live by the hook...Die by the hook
Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...
Post by: Jeff Carter on June 24, 2006, 10:06:52 PM
302efi, im not attacking you on this subject. We just disagree on this topic. You have your opinion and i have mine, and i respect that. I just wish that either there was more separation between the proffessional and amateur ranks, or they do without the regulations on who can bowl in what. Just so that you know, i'm not eligible to bowl the largest tournament in my hometown. A tournament that i not only promoted and supported for over 20 years, but one that i've brought dozens and dozens of bowlers to. Since they no longer allow PBA members, they have basically told me thanks for all of your years of help, but we no longer want you around. How would you feel about that ? How would you feel about no longer being able to bowl the USBC Championships ? Its not fun watching your friends compete in tournaments when you can only watch. Again i'm sorry for ranting on, but this topic just frustrates me to no end. I have given an awful lot to my association and this sport in general, i guess i just expect to be supported in return
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Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
Edited on 6/24/2006 10:05 PM
Post by: Joe Jr on June 24, 2006, 10:23:55 PM
BrunsNick wannabe? I mean comeone what does that even mean?
Next time if you don't want to be called stupid don't open your mouth.
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- Joe
Formerly Richard Cranium
www.Brunswickbowling.com
www.Brunswickinsiders.com
Post by: hookem on June 24, 2006, 10:57:26 PM
Post by: oilhog2 on June 25, 2006, 02:08:59 AM
Post by: Easy10pins on June 25, 2006, 02:31:58 AM
Smith's entry in the tournament actually increased the number of entrants.
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Solid 7 Pin?? 299 Game??!! WTF
Post by: Charles on June 26, 2006, 09:45:46 AM
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Official member of the Texas Express, 2005-2006 BallReviews.com Scratch Doubles Champions!!!!!
Post by: JOE FALCO on June 26, 2006, 11:19:08 AM
quote:
I just want to get opinions on this. How fair is this to the average/above average bowler to have a PBA professional bowling in a local tournament? (unless he is no longer a touring pro).
If a bowler decides to get a PBA card his choice is to become a PROFESSIONAL! From that moment on he IS A PROFESSIONAL bowler! No one pushes him into that decision .. in my opinion he has to live by his decision. He 'no longer qualifies' for AMATEUR events!
For those who wish to try their game against the pro's can enter the tour as a GUEST and have FUN ..
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: Jeff Carter on June 26, 2006, 11:46:20 AM
During the 05-06 season is was the 47th ranked bowler on tour and my total earnings between the National and Regional Tours was $57,020.00. Take away approximately $25,000.00 in entry fees and travel expenses and that leaves around $32,000.00 profit. Thats not too bad, seeing how there are only 20 National Tour stops and around 20-25 regionals for me to bowl in. First of all that doesnt leave me much time to enter "amateur" or local events. But when i do have a free week or weekend, i would still like to compete in whatever i can find. If the PBA had more events, this would be a non-issue for me.
So far this year on the PGA tour, the 47th ranked golfer has earned $864,176.00. That is for this year through only about 10-12 events. If we competed for the money that the golfers do, you would never see PBA members compete at a local or "amateur" level. But until then even the best bowlers in the world need to supplement their income any way that they can. How can you blame them for that.
The people that complain about things like this are the same people that dont support the Tours or bowling in general. If they would the ratings would be better for the Tour telecasts, the sponsors would start putting up more money, there would be more events to bowl and nobody would be facing these issues.
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Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
Post by: Pinbuster on June 26, 2006, 11:57:15 AM
Would many of the “amateur†bowlers turn professional so they could compete for money?
Would the increase of “professional†bowlers correspond to an increase in prize funds?
Or would a million bowlers quit because they couldn’t compete for money?
I know that “amateur†golfers compete for money all the time but no organized tournament can offer a large prize fund that pays cash.
Would you compete in bowling tournament where 1st place was 2 new bowling balls?
The cat is out of the bag and I don’t believe there is any going back but what if?
Post by: Fluff E Bunnie on June 26, 2006, 12:18:49 PM
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Current Arsenal:
Parker Bohn III
Bohn up a Storm!!!
Post by: NACDale on June 26, 2006, 01:05:38 PM
I have to agree with Jeff Carter on this one. There is no way for the average or even decent pro to make enough money to live on based on the prize funds. If you look you have to be in the top 12 to make 100k nationally. If you factor in expenses, thats not alot of money.
I cant believe that there are so many people scared of the PBA members bowling tournaments. 1st off if they are handicap tournaments, whats the big deal, thats why they have handicap. If they are scratch, YES it is a big challenge to beat the best of the best. What ever happened to "Pride" when you beat the best. I would and have gladly shoe'd up against some of the best. Usually getting beat, but it has made me a much better bowler. I wouldnt trade any of the regional or national stops that I have "Donated" at for anything. It keeps you in check. Bowling on all of these "CHINA Walled up House shots" makes you think you are great. Guess what, on that easy shot you have a better chance of beating the best pros than on a tough shot. They Probably wont carry as much as the Good house bowler. Also if you bowl them on a tough shot and can keep up. "Hell Yea" Hold your head up and walk out and say "I kept up with those guys today"
If you want to keep bowling against the guys that you can beat up on, then be prepared to get run over by the guys that want to bowl against the best, they might not do it now. But they will eventually.
Do you think Jeff got that good by bowling against house rats?? I dont think so. I dont know Jeff other than bowling a few tourneys in the midwest region, he is pretty humble about his talent. So keep that in mind when you start bashing him.
This is why Bowling is Gay!!!!!!!!
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B.I.G. Don't pretend that it's not.
Post by: Mike Austin on June 27, 2006, 01:08:58 AM
I don't mean to put myself into Jeff's or any of the Tour Players' class, but I have been a PBA member for coming up 20 years. I only used bowling as a way to make a living for a couple years in the early '90' when I was unemployed, I wasn't bowling on Tour either. That is a really brutal way to make a minimal living.
You guys are talking about local stuff, what about the High Roller and stuff like that, I've never bowled one. Don't allow PBA members.
If the tournament does not allow PBA members and says so, then so be it. But if they do allow PBA members, then don't bash them for bowling. Jeff, Robert, or any other member paid their entry fee before starting too, let them bowl. If you want to bash, tell the tournament directors.
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Mike Austin's Precision Pro Shop
Houston, TX
Drilling and Tech Advice BirdDogbowling.com
Driller to many "Stars" and Tony Melendez too!
"So Many Balls, only ONE drill press!!"
Chuck Norris is the only person to ever count to infinity..........twice!
Post by: TwoFourEightNineNine on June 27, 2006, 08:28:22 PM
I've been reading the boards every now and then, and this is one that deserved my opinion. Jeff is right, there are players that work so hard throughout their lives... potentially putting their families and lives on hold just for their love for the sport... and getting no form of respect from it.
Several people log thousands of miles on the car and frequent flyer miles, every year, to train with and compete against the best in the world and what do we get when we get home? We come home to the unwelcome moans and groans of people back home who think one will take someone's money. It doesn't matter who bowls a particular tournament... chances are the guy who won earned his way to the top in one way or another.
I don't bowl anymore, but when I was on my way out, I stopped going to leagues because it became a task that gave me more headaches than Dave Arnold, Tony Reyes, or Curtis Woods kicking my @$$ at a big scratch tournament around here. Even several locally-prominent scratch tournament bowlers don't even go home to their "home house" to bowl leagues or local tournaments anymore... better yet even some lesser-known PBA members. It's a sad reality.
Anyway, what I said is probably just some rant or some moaning about bad bowlers... it's probably true.
Like what they say to the pba bowlers that didn't like the new exemption system... "If you don't like it, bowl the other tour!" The same goes for you losers who went home crying before the tournament even started.
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-Jeremy Vitug
Post by: Charles on July 05, 2006, 08:19:27 AM
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Official member of the Texas Express, 2005-2006 BallReviews.com Scratch Doubles Champions!!!!!
Post by: C_J on July 05, 2006, 11:26:51 AM
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Storm, Etonic, Vise. The best arsenal, PERIOD!!!!
Post by: Charles on July 05, 2006, 12:28:12 PM
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Official member of the Texas Express, 2005-2006 BallReviews.com Scratch Doubles Champions!!!!!
Post by: stormed1 on July 05, 2006, 01:05:02 PM
Just my 2 cents worth
Post by: NOTHUMB on July 06, 2006, 01:39:37 AM
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Only Losers Feel Pressure
www.thetimekillers.com