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Author Topic: Ric Hamlin's facebook group "Open California Bowling Centers Now"  (Read 2021 times)

milorafferty

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Email received from Earl Anthony's Dublin Bowl.


Let's show Gavin what we think of his stupid-ass idea...  ;D


Quote
Hello Everyone:


“Open California Bowling Centers Now” is the name of a group of bowlers that’s committed to helping get centers back open.


Ric Hamlin's group has over 4000 members and have rallies planned across the state on Wednesday and will also go to the State Capitol in Sacramento on Friday.


One of their rallies will be at Earl Anthony’s Dublin Bowl from 6:00 to 7:00 P.M. ALL bowlers are invited to attend. Local media has been contacted.


The group asks that you wear bowling attire, masks, and make signs. They also want you to know that this is not a political event. You will be asked to leave if you are wearing political hats or clothing.


Besides the rally in Dublin, other rallies include:
Steve Cook’s Fireside Lanes – Sacramento Area
Kearney Mesa Bowl – San Diego Area
Cal Bowl – Los Angeles Area
Morgan Hill Bowl – San Jose Area
Valley Bowl – Madera


Friday’s rally at the State Capitol goes from 11:00 A.M. to 12:30 P.M. on the south side of the building.


Here is the group’s facebook address, https://www.facebook.com/groups/590585188290806


[/size]For more information, contact Scott Luba at 925-570-1577.
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SVstar34

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Re: Ric Hamlin's facebook group "Open California Bowling Centers Now"
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2020, 06:42:09 PM »
Does anybody have any info regarding what the USBC is doing (if anything) regarding lobbying to open CA bowling centers back up?

FWIW I just emailed Chad Murphy and Jason Overstreet the exact same question.  Doubt that I will get a response, but I'll post it if I receive anything.

There may not be much that the USBC can do. Here's why, and let's logically think about this.

It is all summed up in one word: data. Right now, the state has the data; the USBC doesn't. If we look at the data - the risk of exposure, the numbers of people who are COVID-19 positive, where they have been, who they have been in contact with (and possibly exposed), along with those exposed being positive or asymptomatic - if that data indicates that there is too much of a risk in opening up anything, then it is logical to keep them closed until that risk goes down, or containment of the virus increases to a point where it s safe to open up the alleys.

In short, just because we could, doesn't mean we should.

I compare this to the call to let the kids in Omaha play football, and how the parents and football lovers there are even willing to take the school district there to court to allow them to play football. A neighboring school district allowed their schools to play, and from that first game, 4 different outbreaks of COVID occurred. Another school that was supposed to play their makeup game with them because they had to cancel due to a COVID outbreak had to cancel that makeup game again because of this outbreak, and because their JV team's opponent had a positive test for COVID (the varsity and JV teams practice together).

All of this, because they want to play and their parents are rallying to let them play. The data they had for this showed the opposite; that they shouldn't have played.

Just because they could have played doesn't mean they should have played.

If the USBC asks the state or is trying to lobby the state to open the alleys, and the state looks at the data, and the data tells us no, then there isn't much more that the USBC can do. It will make us (the bowling community) look petty and whinging as we stomp our feet and scream that we want to bowl, when we aren't in a position to, healthwise. When we get our numbers down like other states have so we can open up, then we can. But until then, is it worth risking your health, let alone everyone else's health, to bowl?

BL.


That's not a logical comparison. Bowling is nowhere near the same risk as football.

You can wear a mask the entire time while bowling, you can't do that in football. That's the #1 criteria according to Newsom in opening up other businesses in California. (Being able to wear a mask)

bradl

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Re: Ric Hamlin's facebook group "Open California Bowling Centers Now"
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2020, 08:38:02 PM »
Does anybody have any info regarding what the USBC is doing (if anything) regarding lobbying to open CA bowling centers back up?

FWIW I just emailed Chad Murphy and Jason Overstreet the exact same question.  Doubt that I will get a response, but I'll post it if I receive anything.

There may not be much that the USBC can do. Here's why, and let's logically think about this.

It is all summed up in one word: data. Right now, the state has the data; the USBC doesn't. If we look at the data - the risk of exposure, the numbers of people who are COVID-19 positive, where they have been, who they have been in contact with (and possibly exposed), along with those exposed being positive or asymptomatic - if that data indicates that there is too much of a risk in opening up anything, then it is logical to keep them closed until that risk goes down, or containment of the virus increases to a point where it s safe to open up the alleys.

In short, just because we could, doesn't mean we should.

I compare this to the call to let the kids in Omaha play football, and how the parents and football lovers there are even willing to take the school district there to court to allow them to play football. A neighboring school district allowed their schools to play, and from that first game, 4 different outbreaks of COVID occurred. Another school that was supposed to play their makeup game with them because they had to cancel due to a COVID outbreak had to cancel that makeup game again because of this outbreak, and because their JV team's opponent had a positive test for COVID (the varsity and JV teams practice together).

All of this, because they want to play and their parents are rallying to let them play. The data they had for this showed the opposite; that they shouldn't have played.

Just because they could have played doesn't mean they should have played.

If the USBC asks the state or is trying to lobby the state to open the alleys, and the state looks at the data, and the data tells us no, then there isn't much more that the USBC can do. It will make us (the bowling community) look petty and whinging as we stomp our feet and scream that we want to bowl, when we aren't in a position to, healthwise. When we get our numbers down like other states have so we can open up, then we can. But until then, is it worth risking your health, let alone everyone else's health, to bowl?

BL.


That's not a logical comparison. Bowling is nowhere near the same risk as football.

You can wear a mask the entire time while bowling, you can't do that in football. That's the #1 criteria according to Newsom in opening up other businesses in California. (Being able to wear a mask)

It isn't the risk that I am comparing; it is the wanting to play/let us play! that I am comparing. We want to bowl. I get that, as I do, too. But I'm also looking at the risks associated with the want, versus the consequences of doing. While we have ways of limiting our exposure to COVID, we can't limit where other people have come that could have caused them to be exposed to it.

For example, the AFL (Australian Football League) and to an extent, the NBA have created the hub and bubble; meaning that they have to spend 2 weeks in a place that is a gateway into their sterilized environment where they can play. Once they make it through that and show no signs of exposure (testing, obviously), they are in and they can play. Violate that by going outside of that bubble, and you're fined/suspended. Travel out of it legitimately (family reasons), then when you return, go back through that gateway, spend the 2 weeks there, and when you're clear, you're back in the bubble again. That works, because they not only control the environments they are playing in, but also control the risk of exposure.

Side note: The PBA could easily do something like this; they already have with the WSOB, so it wouldn't be that hard to set something like that up.

However, for us, we have no way of controlling that at the alley, nor do any high school or college sports (due to how many teams we have across the country). If we were able to, then I'm all for it and let's get back on the lanes.

That's why I say that just because we could, doesn't mean we should. Are we all willing to accept the risk and consequences of exposure because we want to be on the lanes?

BL.

SVstar34

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Re: Ric Hamlin's facebook group "Open California Bowling Centers Now"
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2020, 09:05:02 PM »
45+ other states have been open for bowling. There's all of your test data plus the 2 weeks they were allowed to be open in June.

It's common sense.

If the state of California's Public Health Dept. isn't communicating with other states that are less restrictive to learn from their data, then they are failing the state's economy and every business that has been forced to remain closed

rocky61201

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Re: Ric Hamlin's facebook group "Open California Bowling Centers Now"
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2020, 10:10:29 PM »
Brad, you use the word control way too much.  You control you and I control me. If I catch the virus I blame NOBODY else but ME.  It is not just about ME wanting to bowl.  It is also about the owners and employees at the centers as well. CA's COVID Tier system is all about cases.  Not deaths, not hospital admittance, not hospital capacity, not ICU capacity, JUST CASE COUNT.  And there have been plenty of sources stating the inaccuracy of testing and false positives.  Under CA's Tier system bowling centers can't open until less than 4 cases per 100k residents for 2 straight weeks.  In San Diego county that equals less than 132 cases per day or 4 hundred thousands of a percent of the total population of 3.3 million.  An impossible number to meet.  And those 133 could be numerous young adults who have little to no risk of the virus.  Partying college kids at SDSU are the cause of the recent spike in numbers.  And that spike is minimal and with only 1 student hospitalized and released the same day.  But those 45 cases had a huge impact when you're trying to get below 4 hundred thousands of a percent. 

On the bowlero website only CA has closed bowling centers. The other 49 states are open.

Quarantine and care for the most at risk.  Let the other 99% of society continue on with our lives and earning a living.  And bowl and put some money back into the economy.  If YOU think it's too risky then stay home and stay away from me.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2020, 11:11:24 PM by rocky61201 »
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milorafferty

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Re: Ric Hamlin's facebook group "Open California Bowling Centers Now"
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2020, 01:02:13 AM »
Don't worry, everything will be back open after November 9th.
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Bowler19525

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Re: Ric Hamlin's facebook group "Open California Bowling Centers Now"
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2020, 08:25:43 AM »
Here in PA, a Federal judge has ruled that the PA Governor's business closures and stay at home orders were unconstitutional.  Mitigation efforts (masks, distancing, etc.) are not impacted by the judgement.

That effectively is supposed to bring an end to all of the business closures, business restrictions, and stay at home orders in PA.  HOWEVER, the PA Governor is asking for a stay in the decision while an appeal is filed and reviewed.

Should the appeal be denied and the decision upheld, that has the potential to set quite a precedent for similar decisions to be made in other states.
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rocky61201

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Re: Ric Hamlin's facebook group "Open California Bowling Centers Now"
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2020, 09:28:12 AM »
Here in PA, a Federal judge has ruled that the PA Governor's business closures and stay at home orders were unconstitutional.  Mitigation efforts (masks, distancing, etc.) are not impacted by the judgement.

That effectively is supposed to bring an end to all of the business closures, business restrictions, and stay at home orders in PA.  HOWEVER, the PA Governor is asking for a stay in the decision while an appeal is filed and reviewed.

Should the appeal be denied and the decision upheld, that has the potential to set quite a precedent for similar decisions to be made in other states.

That ruling in PA is what triggered me to contact the USBC and see if there was anything similar going on the CA courts right now.
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bradl

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Re: Ric Hamlin's facebook group "Open California Bowling Centers Now"
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2020, 06:45:08 PM »
Here in PA, a Federal judge has ruled that the PA Governor's business closures and stay at home orders were unconstitutional.  Mitigation efforts (masks, distancing, etc.) are not impacted by the judgement.

That effectively is supposed to bring an end to all of the business closures, business restrictions, and stay at home orders in PA.  HOWEVER, the PA Governor is asking for a stay in the decision while an appeal is filed and reviewed.

Should the appeal be denied and the decision upheld, that has the potential to set quite a precedent for similar decisions to be made in other states.

That ruling in PA is what triggered me to contact the USBC and see if there was anything similar going on the CA courts right now.

Just to note: I have never used the word "control" in any post. I have never said that I wanted to control anyone or have them do whatever I say or think they should do. You should re-examine my posts if you think that, because you are drawing your own conclusions on that. That is on you, not me.

Funny.. my caring about your health gets misconstrued to mean that I want to control you.  ::)

Now, back on topic.

This would end up being a battle at SCOTUS, because of Jacobson v. Massachusetts being decided in 1905. You would have conflicting rulings saying that it is constitutional for something like those business closures to happen, whose jurisdiction is nationwide, versus a single state, or set of states at the appellate level.

All I'm asking is for people to look at the data. What is happening in 45 other states, especially those who do not have the population as CA, let alone the population density as CA are going to have numbers skewed for what CA needs to examine. The population of Tulsa per square mile (1095 people per square mile) isn't going to be valid for those living in Los Angeles (7000 people per square mile), where the population density of the area could correlate to the risk of exposure.

If anything, CalUSBC needs to lobby the state, not the USBC. But by all means, if anyone has any overwhelming data that can counter what the state has, I'm all for it.

BL.

rocky61201

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Re: Ric Hamlin's facebook group "Open California Bowling Centers Now"
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2020, 09:16:18 PM »
That works, because they not only control the environments they are playing in, but also control the risk of exposure.

However, for us, we have no way of controlling that at the alley, nor do any high school or college sports (due to how many teams we have across the country). If we were able to, then I'm all for it and let's get back on the lanes.

Now, here are my words.   

The last person I want controlling my alley is you.  I imagine you will take the fun right out of it.

Los Angeles is one small, and I mean freakin SMALL geographical area of California.  The rest of CA should not adhere to LA's rules if they are factoring in density. 

Risk of exposure?  Just two weeks ago I was sitting in the parking lot in front of a Gun Store waiting for them to open so I could pick up something new.  While I'm waiting for the gun store to open I notice a Jiu-Jitsu Dojo next door.  It is open.  So I am free and clear to go grapple on the mat with a complete stranger but I can't bowl????  I can stand in line at Lowes with dozens of people but I can't bowl.  Since day one I have been working every day, commuting, and shopping for stuff we need.  Plenty of risk for exposure.  I guess if I was high risk or had a family member high risk I would approach it differently. But after the last 6 months it looks like it wasn't as risky after all.  Nobody got sick!!! 

To top that off 3 weeks out of the month one of my family members works out of the Bay Area then spends one week at home with us in San Diego county.  Flying back and forth on a petri dish with wings.  San Francisco, supposedly a hot spot for the virus.  But we're all good.  Nobody is sick. 

Overwhelming data???   Getting below 4 hundred thousands of a percent with a known error probability of 10% for false positives and re-tests???   I'm being generous with 10% BTW.  The data being forced on the masses in CA is overwhelmingly absurd. 

Thanks for caring about my health.  It would sound better if you cared about the unemployed not being able to provide for their families. 
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 09:47:58 PM by rocky61201 »
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bradl

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Re: Ric Hamlin's facebook group "Open California Bowling Centers Now"
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2020, 12:22:15 PM »
That works, because they not only control the environments they are playing in, but also control the risk of exposure.

However, for us, we have no way of controlling that at the alley, nor do any high school or college sports (due to how many teams we have across the country). If we were able to, then I'm all for it and let's get back on the lanes.

Now, here are my words.   

The last person I want controlling my alley is you.  I imagine you will take the fun right out of it.

Los Angeles is one small, and I mean freakin SMALL geographical area of California.  The rest of CA should not adhere to LA's rules if they are factoring in density. 

Risk of exposure?  Just two weeks ago I was sitting in the parking lot in front of a Gun Store waiting for them to open so I could pick up something new.  While I'm waiting for the gun store to open I notice a Jiu-Jitsu Dojo next door.  It is open.  So I am free and clear to go grapple on the mat with a complete stranger but I can't bowl????  I can stand in line at Lowes with dozens of people but I can't bowl.  Since day one I have been working every day, commuting, and shopping for stuff we need.  Plenty of risk for exposure.  I guess if I was high risk or had a family member high risk I would approach it differently. But after the last 6 months it looks like it wasn't as risky after all.  Nobody got sick!!! 

To top that off 3 weeks out of the month one of my family members works out of the Bay Area then spends one week at home with us in San Diego county.  Flying back and forth on a petri dish with wings.  San Francisco, supposedly a hot spot for the virus.  But we're all good.  Nobody is sick. 

Overwhelming data???   Getting below 4 hundred thousands of a percent with a known error probability of 10% for false positives and re-tests???   I'm being generous with 10% BTW.  The data being forced on the masses in CA is overwhelmingly absurd. 

Thanks for caring about my health.  It would sound better if you cared about the unemployed not being able to provide for their families.

You have to be alive to be able to be employed or unemployed. That is the part you don't get. If you're dead, who cares if you are working or not?

I don't control your alley. Neither do you. That is the point. And you don't know what I would or would not do, so don't go putting words into people's mouths about what you think they can or will do.

And apparently, you don't get the meaning of the words "for example". But I digress. Let's go further back to a county here that no-one cares about: Lassen County. They opened up everything the moment they could; and with Susanville being the only place up there that had a bowling alley, everything quickly got shut down from outbreaks of COVID.

Lassen County has a population density of 7 people per square mile. Barrow, Alaska has more per square mile.

As for your anecdotal story about going to the gun store, that's fine and dandy for you. but right now, just because you didn't get sick from risk of exposure doesn't mean that anyone else has. That's the whole point about risk; you just can't think of only of yourself (which a lot of people are doing with this virus) because with this virus, not only are you impacted by it, but everyone you know, do not know, or have ever been around are also impacted. As for them and who they know, etc. etc. The laws of exponential growth come into play here, so it isn't just only about you.

Someone who thought the same as you, is Gov. Kristi Noem, of South Dakota. The same Kristi Noem who was totally okay for the gathering at Sturgis to happen a couple of weeks ago. Now, both North Dakota and South Dakota lead the country in COVID outbreaks. If one person got in touch with a second person, who got in touch with a third person, who got in touch with a fourth person, who got in touch with you, you're sick or asymptomatic, but test positive for COVID, don't know how the hell you got it, and it all traces back to one person who went to Sturgis.

Now, being asymptomatic, because you feel fine, and for all you know "nobody got sick", you go to a bowling alley where I'm at? Congratulations. you just exposed an entire bowling alley to COVID because "nobody got sick."

You could have controlled that narrative and stayed home, or better yet, helped everyone to control that narrative by letting everyone get this damned virus under control so we all can get back to what we love to do.

So instead of thinking only about ourselves, let's work together, let the data crunchers crunch the data, and work together to get this damned virus under control enough to get down to levels where alleys can open s owe can all go out and bowl.

If not, you can always head up to Medf... oh, wait. they're closed so be safe from burning down. Well, you got Euge.. wait.. closed up as well. Welp, better start on that drive to St George, Laughlin, Kingman, Prescott, or Flagstaff.

BL.

milorafferty

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Re: Ric Hamlin's facebook group "Open California Bowling Centers Now"
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2020, 12:28:02 PM »
Dude, you have got to find another news source instead of MSNBC.
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rocky61201

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Re: Ric Hamlin's facebook group "Open California Bowling Centers Now"
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2020, 01:14:22 PM »
BradL,

Under the current Governor guidelines, CA bowling centers cannot open until we get to less than 4 cases per 100k residents.  Do you agree with this policy or not?  A simple yes or no will suffice.
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bergman

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Re: Ric Hamlin's facebook group "Open California Bowling Centers Now"
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2020, 01:56:17 PM »
The last place I would go for advice for anything is Fox News.

milorafferty

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Re: Ric Hamlin's facebook group "Open California Bowling Centers Now"
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2020, 02:21:04 PM »
The last place I would go for advice for anything is Fox News.

Agreed, but there ARE other options.
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rocky61201

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Re: Ric Hamlin's facebook group "Open California Bowling Centers Now"
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2020, 04:24:40 PM »
The last place I would go for advice for anything is Fox News.

Thanks for the advice. What news source would you recommend?
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