Author Topic: Rules question (Read 10185 times)

Rick Wunder · « **on:** August 13, 2009, 12:38:11 AM »

This happened in our league last night:

A bowler is up on lane 13. During his approach, he falls on the approach, losing his ball off his hand. He fell and landed way short of the foul line. His ball rolled across the approach toward lane 14, and eventually found its way into the right gutter on lane 14. The ball eventually ended up going all the way down lane 14 (gutter), causing the pinspotter to cycle and return his ball.

We concluded that since the ball left his hand and rolled across the foul line that he had made a legal (if unorthodox) delivery. We considered the possibility that it should be considered a gutter ball and he should get zero on that ball (his first ball of the frame). After further consideration, and consulting the USBC rule book, we reconsidered, determining that he had "bowled" on the wrong lane, so therefore it was a dead ball and should be taken over again.

What do the rest of you think the ruling should have been?

We have e-mailed the USBC and I'll post the results when I hear them.
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RW (THB)

themachine300 · « **Reply #31 on:** August 15, 2009, 12:54:09 AM »

I'm not saying I wouldn't have let him do it, its league. BUT if this were a tournament and money was on the line, I would have said something. I agree with Pinbuster on this one. I see this situation the same as my hypothetical one, only he fell down
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Edited on 8/15/2009 1:01 AM

Edited on 8/15/2009 1:02 AM

batbowler · « **Reply #32 on:** August 15, 2009, 01:20:18 AM »

It can't be a legal delivery when the ball travels down the wrong lane! It's the same thing as getting up on the wrong lane and bowling, did they have to do a score correction to remove a gutter someone's score other than his own? If they did then he bowled on the wrong lane!
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J_w73 · « **Reply #33 on:** August 15, 2009, 08:21:54 AM »

quote:
So what if I was bowling on lane 13, the lanes are super dry and I have to loft the gutter cap of both 13 and 12. Its not uncommon. If I don't get enough air and it lands in the gutter of 12, would you call a dead ball? I wouldn't in that case, and I wouldn't in this one either
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YES.. you would have bowled on the wrong lane.. like it was said.. pretty simple..

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Skizriz · « **Reply #34 on:** August 15, 2009, 11:47:20 AM »

quote:
From my point of view he bowled on the correct lane. His ball simply ended up on the wrong lane.
He was up on the correct lane 13, started his approach on the correct lane 13, intended to deliver the ball onto lane 13. But the ball thru his own error was delivered to 14.

What if the ball had stuck on his hand and he had thrown it over the gutter cap onto lane 14. Would you call a dead ball then?

I originally thought wrong lane, dead ball, do over. But you changed my mind.
Good points.

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chipmunkbowler · « **Reply #35 on:** August 15, 2009, 12:54:30 PM »

but his intention wasn't to bowl on 14 it because he fell that it went onto 14

tenpin477 · « **Reply #36 on:** August 15, 2009, 01:44:31 PM »

His intention doesn't matter.

I intended to hit the pocket and throw a strike, however I tugged it left and it went through the nose leaving the big 4. Because I intended to hit the pocket and strike I should be entitled to a strike.

See the flaw? Intention doesn't matter, all that matters is the actual series of events. The guy threw his ball down lane 14, when he was supposed to bowl on lane 13, therefore its a dead ball. Theres really not much of a debate here. Ive seen people line up on the other side of the ball return to deliver a shot on super dry lanes.

How do you know he didn't line up on lane 13 with the intention of lofting the gutter cap, mistakenly thinking he was bowling on lane 14 when he fell and in fact delivered the ball on lane 14?

J_w73 · « **Reply #37 on:** August 15, 2009, 02:36:59 PM »

quote:
His intention doesn't matter.

I intended to hit the pocket and throw a strike, however I tugged it left and it went through the nose leaving the big 4. Because I intended to hit the pocket and strike I should be entitled to a strike.

See the flaw? Intention doesn't matter, all that matters is the actual series of events. The guy threw his ball down lane 14, when he was supposed to bowl on lane 13, therefore its a dead ball. Theres really not much of a debate here. Ive seen people line up on the other side of the ball return to deliver a shot on super dry lanes.

How do you know he didn't line up on lane 13 with the intention of lofting the gutter cap, mistakenly thinking he was bowling on lane 14 when he fell and in fact delivered the ball on lane 14?

I'm glad there is someone else with common sense that knows how to interpret and follow rules..
good job Tenpin.
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

Skizriz · « **Reply #38 on:** August 15, 2009, 04:15:32 PM »

This guy in this video does the same shot. I have a hard time giving him a do-over on a throw like this.

I don't see how it is any difference than the situation described.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRNeOYYumpU&feature=related

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"I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather....Not screaming and yelling like the passengers in his car"

jimsey · « **Reply #39 on:** August 15, 2009, 10:32:55 PM »

Oh Rick, this is far too easy. It was the bowler's turn to bowl on lane 13. The bowler made an approach to make an attempt at knocking down the pins on lane 13. The bowler made a delivery in which the ball crossed the foul line without fouling that resulted in no pins being knocked down on lane 13. Zero for the first delivery, shoot the full rack spare on lane 13. If USBC interprets the rule any differently, they have been standing out in the Texas sun for too long and need to move back to Milwaukee.

cptn scmbg.

Urethane Game · « **Reply #40 on:** August 15, 2009, 10:38:24 PM »

Well, at least there are a few people that agree with me.

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rustylegacy · « **Reply #41 on:** August 15, 2009, 11:47:07 PM »

How is falling down and dropping a ball considered rolling it at the pins? Some people take a GAME too seriously. Its league, not PBA.

mikeywg · « **Reply #42 on:** August 15, 2009, 11:53:55 PM »

While all this happened please tell me he didn't drop his beer?
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rexb300 · « **Reply #43 on:** August 17, 2009, 06:13:22 AM »

my take
I had bowlers throw ball backward that don't count do over.

but what if ball had hit the gutter cap between the lanes
and bounce back without foul lights coming on

would that be a dead ball .
but ball went forward in gutter even 1 lane over I thinking foul!

because if you bowl where there are poles or even walls if you touch
them its a foul .
but if you were bowling on lane 1 and did this and ball went down the
walkway instead of gutter what would call be another idea.
to thing about.

Rex

Rick Wunder · « **Reply #44 on:** August 17, 2009, 09:35:58 AM »

OK, here is the ruling from the USBC, with the original e-mail to them attached:

This is in response to your e-mail below.

In instances where a bowler releases the ball on an adjacent lane, it is a legal delivery. The ball left the bowlerâ€™s possession and crossed the foul line into playing territory (Rule 4a). The delivery counts and the bowler receives zero.

Bowling on the wrong lane is when a bowler executes the delivery from the wrong lane.

Feel free to contact us should you have additional questions regarding this matter.

Sincerely,
Kathy Andersen
Senior Rules Counselor

Bowl with US

Visit the USBC official website www.bowl.com and click Rules for the most recent copy of the USBC Playing Rules and other helpful publications and resources.

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This happened in our league tonight.

Bowler up on the left lane falls during his approach and releases the
ball, which rolls over to the right lane and falls into gutter and rolls
to the pit. The bowler did not foul, he wound up well short of the foul
line.

We decided it was a dead ball due to the fact that he "bowled" on the
wrong lane.

Correct interpretation?

Thank you very much.
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RW (THB)

Urethane Game · « **Reply #45 on:** August 17, 2009, 09:48:47 AM »

Golly, I like being right.

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Author Topic: Rules question (Read 10185 times)

Rick Wunder

Rules question

themachine300

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batbowler

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J_w73

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Skizriz

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chipmunkbowler

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tenpin477

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J_w73

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Urethane Game

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rustylegacy

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Rick Wunder

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Urethane Game

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