BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: tloy on April 07, 2021, 07:32:26 PM
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I am looking for some input of a violation of the new balance hole rule. I have read the usbc rules and the way I read it is a No thumb bowler cannot have a thumb hole. It is now considered a balance hole unless used all the time. My problem/situation is we have a bowler in our league that primarily bowls without their thumb but goes back and forth between using the thumb hole and not. I mentioned this the last time we bowled them. The pro shop driller is on their team and should know the rules. We bowl them this week. The issue I have is I paid in excess of $100 to plug my balance holes. Should I bring this to the attention of the secretary? Thoughts...
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if the ball has a thumb hole and it is not used; then that is an illegal throw/roll. The rules are clear, only griping holes are allowed and all of the holes drilled must be used on every throw.
I would say something to the secretary or president of the league; and if they turn a blind eye, I would elevate this to the association.
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That was my thought. Thank you
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I would recommend the same. The bowler probably thinks it's not that big of a deal. But a rule is a rule to me, and I also paid to have some balance holes plugged, so I'd definitely say something.
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He is essentially cheating. If he throws the ball with a thumb hole drilled, but isn't the thumb hole on every delivery.
You say he bounces back and forth. Does he use his thumb for spares. He can designate a spare ball that he only throws when he is using his thumb, and one ball drilled with no thumb for when he is not using his thumb.
Unfortunately it won't be any fun if you have to watch him on every delivery to make sure he is being honest.
As was already been suggested talk to the league officers. They can give him a friendly reminder of the Rules. He is going to have to man up.have some balls drilled without a thumb and some with, and he honest enough to use each ball properly. In other words not cheat.
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Good luck enforcing it. We have bowlers around here that have been reminded by league officers of the rule, only to have the conversation degrade in to near fisticuffs. Most serious bowlers know the rule and abide by it.
The casual bowlers who bowl on a sanctioned social handicap league once a week, tend not to know about it and frankly don't care. They figure "a ball is a ball, the pro shop guy drilled it for me, so he must have done it right. He told me the hole had to be there to make the ball legal, and now you are telling me the hole has to be filled to make the ball legal. That makes no sense!" Yeah, he drilled it 5 years ago when the rules were different. Rules change.
The balance/gripping hole rule and the dry towel rule have created so much grief it is ridiculous ("But the bottle says Anytime During Competition right on it!"). You couldn't pay me to be a league officer or volunteer at the association level these days.
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As a fellow bowler, I wouldn't really care as I doubt he is doing this gain any sort of advantage. As a league official, they would have to enforce the rule, that is their job.
As far as bringing it up to somebody, if he isn't a dick about it if you mention it, I would probably let it go, maybe just phrase it more as letting him know it's not legal and if he tries to bowl a tournament, he may get his scores thrown out.
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In our City Tournament, in Team Event, there was a guy that would put his thumb in the ball and throw in warm ups, then he decided to not put his thumb in the ball when the event started. He was caught and told he has to use a different ball without the thumb hole. He started using his thumb hole again. Then he was caught again 3 frames later not using his thumb hole and was talked to again. He claimed he didn't like the feel of using his thumb. He was told that he and his team will be disqualified if it happens again. He said "you gotta do what you gotta do, but I'm not using my thumb." He and his team was disqualified from the Team Event. He would have placed second in All Events. He also would have placed somewhere in the other events as well.
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👍 And that's exactly the way it should be enforced.....
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kiefenstien - Did he use his thumb in the Doubles/Singles or just wasn't caught? My guess is he just didn't get caught.
I really don't know if the rule makes a difference at that level but the rules should be enforced. If not who decides which rules to ignore.
I was bowling state a few years back and they made an announcement before practice started that you were only to take one shot and leave the approach and you should not reset to get a full rack of pins. A bowler on the other team reset every time he didn't have a full rack and wouldn't stop when called out on it. The officials refused to do anything to the bowler and he he got his way. That didn't set real well with me.
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I really don't know if the rule makes a difference at that level but the rules should be enforced. If not who decides which rules to ignore.
I choose to ignore the rules that give you an advantage and enforce the ones that give me an advantage.
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kiefenstien - Did he use his thumb in the Doubles/Singles or just wasn't caught? My guess is he just didn't get caught.
He was not caught in Doubles and Singles but he was asked to be honest during Doubles and Singles if he used his thumb. He was honest and said he did not put his thumb in the ball. So he was disqualified.
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In my particular situation the individual puts his thumb in the ball, then pulls it out right before starting his approach. I mentioned it to the pro shop bowler and he as well as the league secretary said this is legal. I feel like it is not... Thoughts?
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My gut says that since his thumb comes out before starting his approach, it's an illegal delivery. Now, if he were to start his approach with his thumb in the ball and then remove it prior to getting to the foul line, it could possibly be considered legal since I don't think there is a rule that says that your thumb has to be in the ball for a specific amount of time. I guess it comes down to at what point the delivery is said to have taken place. Do you have to have your thumb in the ball until your final step? Again, I would think common sense would say yes, but I could see someone trying to find a loophole there.
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Quite honestly, when you break it all down, it is a 100% pointless rule. It doesn't matter if the bowler does or doesn't use their thumb. If the USBC's argument is that a thumb hole for a no-thumber acts as a balance hole, the same thing is occurring for bowlers that put their thumb in the ball during delivery and then get it out first during their release.
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I understand what USBC was going for with the rule change. Back in the day, weight holes were used to make sure balls were legal. In more modern times, gurus like Mo figured out how to use them to drastically alter ball reaction. That wasn't what was originally intended, so USBC wanted to phase it out. Now, manufacturers are trying to figure out ways of designing cores that mimic weight holes without actually having to drill them. It's a back and forth that will continue.
Also, USBC was getting all kinds of heat about two-handers and how much of an advantage they have. As someone who dabbled in two-handed for a while, I can tell you that you still have to make shots in order to score. Well, at least on anything more than a walled up house shot that is. Anyhow, layouts like the triangle left things way too wide open under the old rules. As such, USBC changed things to make sure two-handers couldn't have six layouts in one ball or anything else like that.
It's kind of a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. If they would've left things untouched, people would've continued complaining about that. Instead, they made the change, and people complain about it. In the end, people just like complaining. It's really that simple.
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In my particular situation the individual puts his thumb in the ball, then pulls it out right before starting his approach. I mentioned it to the pro shop bowler and he as well as the league secretary said this is legal. I feel like it is not... Thoughts?
this tells me that the bowler likely knows the rule and is doing this to try get around it. it is all theater to say "see, thumb in ball" when in reality is not in the ball for the throw
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The USBC is pretty clear that all holes must be used during delivery. They define delivery as the time the ball is in the possession of the bowler until they let go of it and put it into the lane. Therefore, if the ball has a thumb hole it needs to have a thumb in it until the bowler releases it.
4a. Legal Delivery
A delivery is made when the ball leaves the player’s possession and crosses the foul line into playing territory.
Is a bowling ball with a thumb hole thrown by a no-thumb or two-handed bowler legal?
A bowler who doesn’t use the thumb during a delivery cannot have a thumb hole, as it is considered a balance hole. If the ball does, it is illegal and games are subject to forfeiture. All holes drilled must be used for gripping purposes on every delivery.
The balance hole argument makes no sense. Doesn't matter if the bowler uses their thumb or not. In the case of a no-thumb bowler with a thumb hole and a thumb-in bowler, both balls will have [in most cases] three holes rolling down the lane. A thumb hole for a no-thumb bowler does nothing dynamically during delivery.
The rule is what the rule is, but it really makes no sense. Now if the no-thumb bowler has a hole in the P1, P2, P3, or P4 position and claims it is a thumb hole that is an entirely different matter.
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I agree with the below but I had to plug all of my weight holes. Only seems fair..
"Quite honestly, when you break it all down, it is a 100% pointless rule. It doesn't matter if the bowler does or doesn't use their thumb. If the USBC's argument is that a thumb hole for a no-thumber acts as a balance hole, the same thing is occurring for bowlers that put their thumb in the ball during delivery and then get it out first during their release. "
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kiefenstien - Did he use his thumb in the Doubles/Singles or just wasn't caught? My guess is he just didn't get caught.
I really don't know if the rule makes a difference at that level but the rules should be enforced. If not who decides which rules to ignore.
I was bowling state a few years back and they made an announcement before practice started that you were only to take one shot and leave the approach and you should not reset to get a full rack of pins. A bowler on the other team reset every time he didn't have a full rack and wouldn't stop when called out on it. The officials refused to do anything to the bowler and he he got his way. That didn't set real well with me.
Well that's one of the dumbest rules I've ever heard. Carry is the whole game, you can put a blind fold on and hit the headpin. If I'm in line behind someone who sucks you're basically telling me I don't get any practice here.