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Author Topic: same old debate, it never dies...  (Read 9073 times)

xrayjay

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same old debate, it never dies...
« on: June 03, 2014, 01:21:51 PM »
bowling: is it a sport or not?

Saw a post on FaceBook about this old debate. And this subject actually happened  2 weeks ago with a couple of bowlers.

IMO, it's a sport and a game. Bowl PBA regionals/tour and non THS tourney's with High $$ involved, it's a sport. Bowl THS league or for fun, it's a game. The END!!

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WEIGHT!!!

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Ken De Beasto

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Re: same old debate, it never dies...
« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2014, 08:10:15 PM »
Definition of sport is physical and skill used to compete against each other and I believe bowling has both requirement.

Juggernaut

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Re: same old debate, it never dies...
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2014, 08:31:50 PM »
 This whole "sport vs game" debate is silly.

 American football is obviously a SPORT, yet when we talk about it with our friends, we ask "Did you see the game"? So is it a sport, or a game?

 Bowling, as a whole, is a sport.  Each individual contest is a game of bowling. It doesn't matter what condition you are on, because your competition is on the same condition.

 Ask any professional and they will tell you, bowling is a sport, regardless of the condition because, no matter what is out there, you still have to be better at it than the other guy.

 It isn't about the condition, or about the score. It is about winning, no matter whether you shoot 150 or 250. And, when the ultimate goal is outperforming the competition no matter what, it is a sport.

 As said earlier, church league softball may not be the same as MLB, but it is STILL a sport, and so is church league bowling.
Learn to laugh, and love, and smile, cause we’re only here for a little while.

BradleyInIrving

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Re: same old debate, it never dies...
« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2014, 10:00:21 PM »
Bowling is a sport.. You keep score, you take on an opponent(s), you exert physical activity, etc etc...

trash heap

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Re: same old debate, it never dies...
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2014, 02:22:12 PM »
To me the issue is with the ball. Its the whole thing of "changing equipment".  Uh oh! the pattern is changing. Just pick up ball B and start throwing again.

I know it is more complicated then my above statement. I am not trying to take away from those who have the abillity to create a great arsenal. A bowler still has to execute and make correct adjustments (ball, approach, etc...). It seems other sports are less complicated with the equipment.

As far as defense in this game. You can destroy your opponents line. Done many times.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 02:24:04 PM by trash heap »
Talkin' Trash!

Jorge300

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Re: same old debate, it never dies...
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2014, 02:50:30 PM »
"Bowling is not a sport, because you have to rent the shoes"
 
    George Carlin (RIP)
 
So as long as you have your own shoes, it's a sport I guess. :)
Jorge300

avabob

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Re: same old debate, it never dies...
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2014, 04:51:36 PM »
The real problem with bowling is that it has always been a game (sport, who cares ) where the cream does not necessarily  come to the top in the short run.   Prior to the PBA, big money matches were typically 50 game home and home affairs.  When the PBA first started we had 18 games of qualifying and a full 24 man round robin match play finals.  Majors were 32 games of qualifying and 24 round robin matches.  The step ladder finals that was added for tv was hated, and not well accepted at first.  Since then every change in the game has been to shorter formats.  Anybody can get beat in a 3 game match.  I have beaten a couple of hall of famers in 3 game matches.  Doesn't mean I am under any illusion that I could play with them over any extended number of games or lane patterns.

The trend to shorter formats has not been conducive to determining the best bowler on any gives day, and ultimately detracts from demonstrating the amount of skill that truly great bowlers have.   

LiverDance

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Re: same old debate, it never dies...
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2014, 01:05:43 PM »
You guys got "Sport" on a pedestal...it doesn't have to be athletic (ESPN has spelling bees).  It's just another word for 'competition', even if it's against yourself.

Some 'sports' are simply more difficult than others.

Joe Cool

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Re: same old debate, it never dies...
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2014, 03:07:44 PM »
Since I bowl in very recreational leagues (for now) with very small prize funds, I can safely say that I would bowl for no prize money.

I think it is whatever you want it to be.  If you want it to be a sport, it's a sport.  If not, it isn't.  The thing I think we really screw up is not allowing people to enjoy it for what it is to them and trying too hard to turn it into what we think it should be.
Hit the pocket and hope for the best

coco3085

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Re: same old debate, it never dies...
« Reply #39 on: June 29, 2014, 09:21:27 AM »
i think that bowling gets a bad rap because it is formatted for the weakest players.  Everybody, even here on this site talks about the easy conditions leading to big and maybe overinflated scoring.  But the idea of the THS and the league conditions, the way balls are made ect, is so that the low guy can acheive some sort of success.  this is the only "sport" that tries to cater to the low guy.  the minor leagues of baseball do not have shorter fences, football does not have shorter fields, basketball 9 ft rims.now this is simplistic but you get the idea   

this won't be popular, so go ahead and rip me for what i'm gonna say, but i think that lane conditions make this not a sport.  I bowl on (and someone mentioned wood lanes) overlays, and i average about 200 each year.  i have never bowled 800 and no 300 (my games have not been bowled at my center) and i cannot stand in the same spot and throw the ball all night long. i am also not the best bowler in my house and yet i go the state tourny and take 4th in scratch, 14th or so in doubles (my partner only shot 522)  13 or so in all events, and handicap is was even higher.  did i have a good day sure, but on the second day i averaged 244 for 6 games (first game 188 )  and never move a board.  we even had to switch lanes, as is customary, and played the exact line again.  at my home alley, i can't play a game and a half on the same line. 

i think in our attempts to make the game easy for the average guy, we have done damage to what would make our game a sport.  any hack can lay the ball down in the same spot for three or more games, but to be a sport there has to be a challenge.  NOW, i do not, and have not really bowled on sport shots so i do make that concession.  they are just not available, so that could change my opinion
« Last Edit: June 29, 2014, 10:06:41 AM by coco3085 »

Long Gone Daddy

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Re: same old debate, it never dies...
« Reply #40 on: June 29, 2014, 10:53:25 AM »
Yeah, it won't die because thin-skinned people are more concerned about what other people think of the thing they are doing then the people actually doing it.  Do I care if somebody calls it a game and another calls it a sport?  No.  You shouldn't either.
Long Gone also posts the honest truth which is why i respect him. He posts these things knowing some may not like it.

Mainzer

Jorge300

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Re: same old debate, it never dies...
« Reply #41 on: June 30, 2014, 10:11:50 AM »
Coco,
     Your first point isn't really relevant. Most sports do this, that can. How many new golf balls come out every year that say they will fly straighter and farther? Are they designed for Tiger and Phil? How many new drivers come out every year that say the same thing? Are they designed for the already hitting the ball 300 yards? No, they are designed for the lowest caliber golfers to try and help them enjoy the sport more. This is true even in sports like football....new gloves that help you catch/throw the ball better, and baseball...new gloves and new bats, etc.. This is universal, not just with bowling.

On your second point, I think you are severly underestimating the skill it takes to be a good bowler. Sorry, not "any hack" can lay the ball down in the same spot for 3 games. The reason there are such high scores on THS is because of the fact that you don't have to do that to score well. Look at the highest USBC Sport average for any of the last 4-5 years, it's in the 220 range. While people routinely average 240-250+ on THS. If any hack can lay the ball down the same spot for 3 games, don't you think the Sport averages would be closer to THS? Bowlers practice for years to get good enough to consistently hit the same mark. Any little variation in your armswing can make it difficult if not impossible to do so. Then add the fact that you need to release the ball the same every shot and you add another element into the mix. You said you might get flamed well you are getting your wish. Saying any house hack can hit the same spot for 3 games is wrong, and ignorant.

i think that bowling gets a bad rap because it is formatted for the weakest players.  Everybody, even here on this site talks about the easy conditions leading to big and maybe overinflated scoring.  But the idea of the THS and the league conditions, the way balls are made ect, is so that the low guy can acheive some sort of success.  this is the only "sport" that tries to cater to the low guy.  the minor leagues of baseball do not have shorter fences, football does not have shorter fields, basketball 9 ft rims.now this is simplistic but you get the idea   

this won't be popular, so go ahead and rip me for what i'm gonna say, but i think that lane conditions make this not a sport.  I bowl on (and someone mentioned wood lanes) overlays, and i average about 200 each year.  i have never bowled 800 and no 300 (my games have not been bowled at my center) and i cannot stand in the same spot and throw the ball all night long. i am also not the best bowler in my house and yet i go the state tourny and take 4th in scratch, 14th or so in doubles (my partner only shot 522)  13 or so in all events, and handicap is was even higher.  did i have a good day sure, but on the second day i averaged 244 for 6 games (first game 188 )  and never move a board.  we even had to switch lanes, as is customary, and played the exact line again.  at my home alley, i can't play a game and a half on the same line. 

i think in our attempts to make the game easy for the average guy, we have done damage to what would make our game a sport.  any hack can lay the ball down in the same spot for three or more games, but to be a sport there has to be a challenge.  NOW, i do not, and have not really bowled on sport shots so i do make that concession.  they are just not available, so that could change my opinion
Jorge300

Jorge300

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Re: same old debate, it never dies...
« Reply #42 on: June 30, 2014, 10:20:21 AM »
LGD,
    You are wrong, we do need to care what others think. And those others are sponsors/advertisers. We need people like that to think of bowling as a sport. We need them to think that they can drive customers into their businesses or get them to use their products in order invest money into our sport. And this goes from the PBA, down to the USBC, all the way down to the local alleys. Whether it's a tournament at your local house, sponsoring a league for a Winter Season, helping to bring the USBC Open to your local area, or advertising on a PBA telecast, we have a better chance to get this if more people consider bowling a sport. We (and this is a collective we as in the entire bowling community in these next lines) need to find a way to convince these people that there is a return for their investment. Any business that does do these things, we need to go there, spend money there, and let them know you saw their ad in the bowling center or on the bowling telecast. We need to let them know that their bowling ad dollars are bringing in business. If we do that, we might see businesses stick with supporting bowling longer, and we might be able to bring in new businesses. Something bowling desperately needs.


Yeah, it won't die because thin-skinned people are more concerned about what other people think of the thing they are doing then the people actually doing it.  Do I care if somebody calls it a game and another calls it a sport?  No.  You shouldn't either.
Jorge300

NHLfan88

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Re: same old debate, it never dies...
« Reply #43 on: June 30, 2014, 02:42:24 PM »
Anything i can do while drunk is not a sport. 
Those who can't bowl, bowl with two hands.

Jorge300

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Re: same old debate, it never dies...
« Reply #44 on: June 30, 2014, 02:45:37 PM »
You can do anything drunk, but you can't do it well. This is the stupidist thing I have ever heard....and that is saying something.

Hockey isn't a sport then either....I have seen many a drunk playing hockey in my days in Canada.

Anything i can do while drunk is not a sport. 
Jorge300

EL3MCNEIL

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Re: same old debate, it never dies...
« Reply #45 on: June 30, 2014, 02:50:31 PM »
Anything i can do while drunk is not a sport.

Then you obviously aren't a good drunk. If you don't have anything constructive or relevant to say, please don't say it at all.
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