Author Topic: Same Layout (Read 5913 times)

Jay · « **on:** July 03, 2008, 06:54:37 PM »

Except maybe for the true oiler and the true dry lane ball of an arsenal, would it be any good to put the same layout on all your equipment? I know almost no one does this, but I figure it would be good for consistency. I find this especially useful if you happen to know a particular layout works well for you in general. Of course, I guess the down fall would be very similar looks on the the lane. The layout you choose may not work so well for you with one ball as another ball due to what the balls were originally meant to do.

Thoughts?

Dan Belcher · « **Reply #16 on:** July 05, 2008, 10:58:25 AM »

You are correct that it does flare quite a bit still. (That's the nature of asymmetric equipment I believe)

I actually rarely see truly heavy, heavy oil, and when I do I can just move right, keep my hand up the back of the ball more, and slow down. I don't need to hook it, I just need to create entry angle and roll. I was throwing it damn near straight the other day on the Shark playing outside, but hey, it worked. I use the Cell for anything from medium conditions when there's carrydown all the way up to heavy oil. The ball doesn't overreact in the midlane with this drill, but also doesn't rely on clean backends to make its move. That's the exact reaction I wanted from it. I need to bring my camera with me to the lanes on a few different conditions so I can show people the kind of reaction it gives me.

Jay · « **Reply #17 on:** July 05, 2008, 02:29:03 PM »

Interesting approach to true heavy lanes. I prefer to have at least three boards of hook at any given time though. I have a Rival(don't know pin to PAP) with my pin under my ring with a decent midlane read and decent continuation at 2000 abralon. On the Shark I played straight up 10 last time. Gave me enough hook to the pocket and I'm surprised. But it wasn't on synthetics and I think those make these patterns seem more oily don't they?

By the way, I was thinking, how relevant is pin placement in relation to the fingers really? I've been told it doesn't matter and the dual angle system suggests that it doesn't, but the way I've been taught does. If I want a 5" pin to PAP there's actually quite a few different pin placements you can use I think. But they would give you different drilling angles and/or angles to the VAL, giving you different reactions.

Dan Belcher · « **Reply #18 on:** July 05, 2008, 02:53:28 PM »

quote:
Interesting approach to true heavy lanes. I prefer to have at least three boards of hook at any given time though.

I've never seen a condition so slick I couldn't get the ball to move at least that much. Even on the fresh Shark I bowled on the other night, where EVERYONE had trouble getting the ball to hook except the super high rev guys, I still was getting probably 3 or 4 boards of movement total. I was just playing very direct from the outside part of the lane. 6 at the arrows, 11 or 12 at the breakpoint type of deal. And those were the slickest lanes I've ever seen. (And I've bowled on double oil before!)

janderson · « **Reply #19 on:** July 05, 2008, 06:48:30 PM »

quote:
BUT if you want to bowl good tournaments or National torunaments or PBA tournaments or PBA Experience leagues, then, more than likely, if you did, you might not have the versatility and flexibility to score well. There's a remote chance, though, if you have a lot of release changes (4 - 8 skilled ones) in your repertoire.

Consider that you don't see successful touring pros and top-level amateurs running for the bag as the first adjustment. The touring pros and top-level amateurs whom I know use pretty much the same layout on every piece of equipment and adjust or exchange surface. Excepting, as Strike Domination said in the original post, for the extremes.

Don't forget different lines of equipment have different cores. So even with the same layout, they won't necessarily behave the same.

The top bowlers often have recourse to ball reps. The ball changes, the surface changes, but the layout generally doesn't. It is not true for every bowler, but it can work.

Generally speaking, high trackers will find that ball surface plays a larger role in ball reaction than layout. IMO even low trackers will find that surface players a larger roll in ball reaction than layout, but to a lesser degree than high trackers.

--------------------
J.J. "Waterola Kid" Anderson, the bLowling King : Kill the back row

Edited on 7/7/2008 10:16 AM

Jay · « **Reply #20 on:** July 06, 2008, 02:34:36 AM »

quote:
Generally speaking, high trackers will find that ball surface plays a larger role in ball reaction than layout. IMO even low trackers will find that surface players a larger roll in ball reaction that layout, but to a lesser degree.

I'm a high tracker so that's pretty good to know. When you mention that, I actually really believe it, at least for me, because as soon as my Rival was resurfaced to 2000 instead of 4000 I immediately saw the nice even roll with an arcing backend that I originally wanted out of the ball. At box finish it gave me more backend than I'd hoped for.

Dan, when you put it that way I should at least say 5 boards of movement is comfortable. Pointing torwards the pocket like you were is not something I like doing, but you gotta do what you gotta do to get to the pocket. If I remember correctly the pocket is on board 17 right? If so, I was getting 6-7 boards of hook on a good shot when I last played the shark. I guess what I disliked more than a little lack of hook was the fact that it was tight, but for some reason I don't mind it being that tight on the shorter patterns. I guess it's just the fact that I'm never really sure it will come back. But yeah, 5 boards at least is my comfort zone, even if I have to point it. I need a true oiler because my Rival is not meant to handle that much oil, only Medium to Medium-Heavy which is what I'd call the shark.

Anyways, I'm still wondering about what different pin placements relative to the fingers mean. I know that generally under the fingers means an earlier roll and above them means more length. I think next to the ring means a more violent response from the breakpoint. But I don't know about the exact locations such as above ring vs above middle, etc. Also, the further your grip is away from the cg what happens besides possibly needing a balance hole? I'm used to just going by the dual angle layout system and pin/CG/MB placement is all a result of the angles you choose. I don't believe you could keep a certain pin placement without changing both angles.

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #21 on:** July 07, 2008, 08:55:56 AM »

quote:

Generally speaking, high trackers will find that ball surface plays a larger role in ball reaction than layout. IMO even low trackers will find that surface players a larger roll in ball reaction that layout, but to a lesser degree.

I can confirm this - having a high track, too, I find that surface prep is a very good means of fine-tuning a ball and adjusting its usability. With the pin placement (and also MB), you determine when and how the core works for you, which is a very basic thing. But the surface and its changes can have major effects, even ruining the ball for you if you do not match up properly, and I found that high trackers are more prone to "suffer" from this factor than low track players, who generate good natural length through their style.
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Author Topic: Same Layout (Read 5913 times)

Jay

Same Layout

Dan Belcher

Re: Same Layout

Jay

Re: Same Layout

Dan Belcher

Re: Same Layout

janderson

Re: Same Layout

Jay

Re: Same Layout

dizzyfugu

Re: Same Layout