BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Steven on September 25, 2019, 10:28:27 AM
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I was cleaning out some cabinets yesterday and uncovered a few boxes of maroon and green scotchbrite from probably 20 years ago. Like many, I graduated to the newer surface pads over the years (Abralon, etc.) and mostly forgot about the older abrasives.
Is anyone here using lower grit scotchbrite on the newer coverstock surfaces? I've never been thrilled with the longevity of Abralon/Siaair, and found the JOEST Use-It pads to be no more durable. I have a few rarely used balls I'm going to experiment with, but just curious about the experience of others.
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I dont remember the grit ratings for the scotch brites, but my recollection is that we were trying to achieve much more aggressive surface preps during the pre resin era. As we became more familiar with the friction characteristics of resin the trend went to much finer grits for surface adjustments. Today we may start at 500 grit as part of a resurface, but that is consideted very aggressive.
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I pretty much exclusively use scotch brites (and Trizact pads for higher grits) and save my abralon for rare occasions or putting factory on someone else's ball. Since scotch brites are safest for particle balls and are good for quick sanding by hand lane side I just use them for everything. Maroon scotch brite is equivalent to like 500 grit Abralon or so. Generally what I use for the base of resurface unless needs a deep resurface then use very course scotch brite (like 260 or so equivalent IIRC). Green and black are little over 1000 I believe equivalent and light gray is 1500.
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this a little bit old, but here is link that compare different grits to one another.
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/images/1/1e/Bowling_grit_chart.pdf
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scotchbrite is great for particle balls
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this a little bit old, but here is link that compare different grits to one another.
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/images/1/1e/Bowling_grit_chart.pdf
Thank you for that link. That is definitely the best resource that I have seen on surface prep materials. Nice job to whomever put it together.
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I'm going to hate myself for asking, but I have to... Exactly why is Scotchbrite superior to other options for particle balls?
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I'm going to hate myself for asking, but I have to... Exactly why is Scotchbrite superior to other options for particle balls?
More likely to sand the urethane in the cover stock without rounding the particle material as well. TBH have heard only really have to worry about this for first few generations of particle tech. Guess I will find out since I also took Trizact 3 and 5k pads to AMB Centaur Particle I picked up recently.
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In my opinion, scotchbrite became popular because it's main predecessor was sandpaper. On a spinner with water supply water can flow through the pad which made it easier to get a more uniform surface over the whole ball.
I also still use them occasionally, but typically the medium and finer grits rather than the maroon or green. Their cost is less than the newer abrasives that can be expensive comparatively.
Having said that, a green pad with compound on it can produce an aggressive surface that can still be very useful today. I compare it to Brunswick's older generation Rough Buff surface. Changing speeds, water flow, and hand pressure can get some nice results without much cost.
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I'm going to hate myself for asking, but I have to... Exactly why is Scotchbrite superior to other options for particle balls?
It is best for those particles that are softer. Harder abrasives will pare down the particles along with the cover stock leaving a relatively flat surface, but Scotchbrite since it is softer, will leave the particles standing above the cover which helps in oil.
FYI for BowlingForDonuts, Visionary used soft particles.
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I don't know if this is true or not, but someone told me once that was one of the reasons for the perception of early particle balls dying. Bowlers were using their normal abrasives on particle balls and sanding down the particles in the process so they did not have the old reaction in oil like they had before. They blamed the ball and not their own actions for causing that. Balls like the Chaos used glass beads as particles and sandpaper would level them down. Of course, oil absorbtion was also occurring and we weren't removing the oil back then.
If this is untrue, please let me know.
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I'm going to hate myself for asking, but I have to... Exactly why is Scotchbrite superior to other options for particle balls?
More likely to sand the urethane in the cover stock without rounding the particle material as well. TBH have heard only really have to worry about this for first few generations of particle tech. Guess I will find out since I also took Trizact 3 and 5k pads to AMB Centaur Particle I picked up recently.
You mean the one that was on Ebay where you outbid me with less than 5 seconds?
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I don't know if this is true or not, but someone told me once that was one of the reasons for the perception of early particle balls dying. Bowlers were using their normal abrasives on particle balls and sanding down the particles in the process so they did not have the old reaction in oil like they had before. They blamed the ball and not their own actions for causing that. Balls like the Chaos used glass beads as particles and sandpaper would level them down. Of course, oil absorbtion was also occurring and we weren't removing the oil back then.
If this is untrue, please let me know.
I believe this was the most significant factor in one's perception of their particle balls dying BUT not necessarily the only factor.
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I never touched my particle balls with any abrasive, and they still died.
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I still have and use 2 particle balls-Yeah Baby, and Mega Friction- that I use scotchbrite on. I will grant you that both balls are weaker, BUT the oils are thicker. I religiously clean my stuff right after using. I use those 2 balls for control/predictability when some of the new stuff is unpredictable. Medium to light oil shots are in their wheel house. Just last week I used a burgundy pad-with light pressure by hand-on my blue Paradox to get the ball started sooner. While not often I still use scotchbrite pads.
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I love the scotch bite pads!!
I use the fresh green, gray or maroon ones when doing a complete resurface, but my old beat up, much used green pad is the most effective one at getting a uniform surface. I just alter the time, pressure and water content when using my spinner.
The final effect is way better than the abralons most times!
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Yeah from what I understand particle balls also absorb oil faster so require more maintenance as well in general. Thus Joe Q Public developed a bad perception of them (but still buy the OG Idol but I digress) and to be honest the first few generations longevity really were crap. But back on topic hard to go wrong with scotch brites and easy enough to find them in paint section of any Home Depot.
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Auto paint supply stores will likely be a good source. Years ago I found a box of gold pads there and they are great for the 1500 - 2000 range. I'd be willing to bet you could find them all over the internet.
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People forget that particle balls were still reactive resin base. As such they would absorb oil, especially with a fairly aggressive finish to begin with
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Maroon Scotch-Brite pads are 320 grit. At that number, the CAMI and the FEPA numbers are the same.
Green Scotch-Brite pads are 600 grit CAMI; that's approximately 1200 grit FEPA.
Since they use the same abrasive, silicon carbide, as Abralon and Jost pads; the difference is not the abrasive but the woven material to which it is attached. The Scotch-Brite pads seemed to affect the particles in the old Columbia based particles balls less than Abralon and sandpaper. Brunswick particle balls used such hard particles that they need to have Trizact pads used on them to affect the resin AND the particles.
Older Lane Masters balls, like the Yeah Baby and the New Standard, used diamond dust as the particles; so they were not affect by anything except diamond pads; Trizact pads came close and did the best job for the money (diamond pads at that time were major bucks)
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I was cleaning out some cabinets yesterday and uncovered a few boxes of maroon and green scotchbrite from probably 20 years ago. Like many, I graduated to the newer surface pads over the years (Abralon, etc.) and mostly forgot about the older abrasives.
Is anyone here using lower grit scotchbrite on the newer coverstock surfaces? I've never been thrilled with the longevity of Abralon/Siaair, and found the JOEST Use-It pads to be no more durable. I have a few rarely used balls I'm going to experiment with, but just curious about the experience of others.
Steven,
No sanding lasts beyond maybe 6 games if you're lucky. I think that was shown a number of years ago by testing. Even new synthetics lane, that look and feel so smooth, will wear down a freshly sanded 750-1000 grit ball down to 4500 - 5000 by the end of 4-7 games or so. Balls need constant refreshing by hand.
I think that wear test was posted here something like the 4-7 years ago that I mentioned above. I don't recall who did that testing or who posted it.
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Steven,
No sanding lasts beyond maybe 6 games if you're lucky. I think that was shown a number of years ago by testing. Even new synthetics lane, that look and feel so smooth, will wear down a freshly sanded 750-1000 grit ball down to 4500 - 5000 by the end of 4-7 games or so. Balls need constant refreshing by hand.
I think that wear test was posted here something like the 4-7 years ago that I mentioned above. I don't recall who did that testing or who posted it.
You and I have been exchanging refresh/refinish ideas for years. No question that covers need constant tweaking to keep a consistent reaction.
Having all these scotchbrite pads I had forgot about just got me thinking about putting them to use. As I mentioned, I'll get around to experimenting on a few older balls. I've never used them with compound as notclay suggested, so I'll give that a try.
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I have been hitting my AMF particle ball with green pad lightly on the spinner before every set. Works great.
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I used to do the bowling balls with them. But I have use trucut and there's gensisbowling that have pads as well.
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The CTD Tru-Cut pads work best for me. They are just as good as the Abralon and Siaair pads, but they last a lot longer. My new favorite pad is the P5000D pad. I can shine my balls with that pad on my spinner and still have some "teeth" underneath. Cool!