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Author Topic: Scratch bowlers in Handicapped brackets  (Read 17362 times)

Dogtown

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Scratch bowlers in Handicapped brackets
« on: October 22, 2012, 09:00:34 AM »
Does anyone else see an issue with scratch bowlers being able to get in handicapped brackets.  Before you answer, here is my problem.

The tournament I bowled this weekend, the handicap brackets were based on 90% of 220.  Naturally, there were several 220+ bowlers getting in every bracket they could.  And they should have, and here's why.  If you average 230 and you shoot your average in handicap brackets, you get 230.  If I average 210 and shoot my average, with handicap, I get 219.  Basically, the 230 average bowler gets 10 pins advantage because the the handicap is based on 220.

No matter what you average, if it is less than 220, you have to shoot "over" your average to beat the scratch bowler who only has to bowl his average.

Needless to say the scratch bowlers who shot their average or better, swept the brackets this weekend.

My thought is if you average more than what handicap brackets are based on, then you should have to give those pins back every game.  So, if you average 230, you loose 10 pins a game if they are based on 220.

Any thoughts.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 10:20:53 AM by Dogtown »

 

Rightycomplex

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Re: Scratch bowlers in Handicapped brackets
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2012, 09:36:37 AM »
Thats not fair to the scratch bowler. What about the 180 avg bowler who shoots 240 and ends up with 280. Why would you take away sticks from one bowler when you adding sticks to another. At the end of the day, its all about stepping up. Nothing is given and the 230 avg bowler still has to go out and shoot 230 or better. The 210 avg bowler shot 210 and gets sticks so there's nothing really to complain about.
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Dogtown

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Re: Scratch bowlers in Handicapped brackets
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2012, 10:16:51 AM »
A 180 average bowler is rarely going to shoot 240.  That's why they average 180.  Same with a 230 average bowler.  You average 230 because you have the skill-set to do so.  I would even go as far to say that the 230 average bowler has even a bigger advantage in tournaments because they have the skill-set to adjust to different conditions.


rockerbowler18

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Re: Scratch bowlers in Handicapped brackets
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2012, 10:30:30 AM »
Duh the 230 average bowler has the advantage. They're a better bowler. That's how sports work!!! Do you think the 180 average bowler should have the advantage?

Handicap isn't made so that the 180 average bowler can win. It's made so that SOMETIMES he can compete with people WAY out of his league.

I can't believe this is even a discussion. Give me a break. If you lose to a better bowler, it's because HE'S BETTER. Do you want to beat him? Then practice as much as him. Put in as much time and effort as him and then be better than him.

Handicap is designed to help even the odds, not make it so whoever bowls closest to their average wins.

JOE FALCO

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Re: Scratch bowlers in Handicapped brackets
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2012, 10:37:08 AM »
DOGTOWN .. I've been arguing your point on this site for years! I agree with you 100%. Don't remember when but ABC had come out with something about handicap .. don't recall exactly what they stated but I think it was 100% of 300 .. GOOD LUCK!
« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 10:39:05 AM by JOE FALCO »
RIP Thongprincess/Sawbones!

JohnP

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Re: Scratch bowlers in Handicapped brackets
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2012, 11:20:58 AM »
Simple solution, the handicap base used should be above the highest average.

trash heap

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Re: Scratch bowlers in Handicapped brackets
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2012, 11:46:02 AM »
Lesson Learned. Don't get in brackets set up this way. These brackets were clearly created so the top average bowlers would win automatically. You might as well just called it a scratch bracket with "plenty of donators".
Talkin' Trash!

bowlingnut07

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Re: Scratch bowlers in Handicapped brackets
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2012, 11:48:04 AM »
wow I think ive heard it all , so let me get this straight
if I shoot 230 u want to penalize me by taking pins away. so remind me again
what is the incentive for me to have practiced enough to get better
and average 230+ and wheres the incentive for you to get better as a 180 bowler ?
the answer on both sides IS THERE ISNT ANY INCENTIVE ! that is what is killing our sport.
i ran into this situation in a lil different way this weekend in a sweeper. no brackets but the main tourney itself. i found my self giving a friend of mine 20 pins a game because he bowls in a house that is VERY tough and he averages 195. when he bowls on a regular THS like myself he averages 230. and his response was HEY im just going by the rules . but he knows i shouldn't be spotting him pins. Handicap needs to be fixed for sure. this is just one example
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rockerbowler18

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Re: Scratch bowlers in Handicapped brackets
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2012, 11:53:02 AM »
Even simpler solution: practice.

txbowler

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Re: Scratch bowlers in Handicapped brackets
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2012, 12:04:38 PM »
Better solution:  Quit complaining because "you" personally whether a scratch bowler or handicap bowler got beat.

If a handicap bowler beats a scratch bowler - HE'S BAGGING

If a scratch bowler beats a hdcp bowler - DON"T LET THE SCRATCH BOWLERS IN THE HDCP BRACKETS

It seems, everyone who freaking enters brackets at league or tournaments looks at them as income.  I have news for you, so do the 7 OTHER people who entered them.  7 of you lose.

If you get beat, you lost.  Don't come on this board and whine like a baby about it.

Go find you a pacifier to suck on instead.

storm22

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Re: Scratch bowlers in Handicapped brackets
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2012, 12:25:09 PM »
Think of all the handicapped tournaments you've bowled in.  Who generally wins?  Every time I bowl KOH or some crap like that I get screwed by the 180-200 bowler getting a crap load of pins!  A 180 avg bowler gets 36 STICKS A GAME!!!! If I shoot 250, 250, 250=750 that's a good set and would lose to a 180 going 215,214,214 + 108 of handicap= 751.  That is why I try to steer clear of handicapped tourns and such and why I always get in as many brackets as possible to even out.  There's always some way to complain that someone is getting an advantage.  My thought is "Shut up and bowl" 

ward845

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Re: Scratch bowlers in Handicapped brackets
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2012, 12:46:45 PM »
Most of the handicap tournaments in my area are rolled on sport shots and most of the 230 guys average 180 or lower on them so the hadicap bowlers crush the scratch guys.Replying to the poster of this topic the tournament director should adjust the handicap percentage up to 230 or higher,but heres something alot of people don't consider about 230 average bowlers(most of their average comes from one big game most of the time) You can shoot 279 211 200 and that's a 230 average,i see this all the time in league with the guys who average 230 one big game makes there average. Does this really count as a 230 average when the bowler only shot one game over 230?

Rightycomplex

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Re: Scratch bowlers in Handicapped brackets
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2012, 01:04:59 PM »
Most of the handicap tournaments in my area are rolled on sport shots and most of the 230 guys average 180 or lower on them so the hadicap bowlers crush the scratch guys.Replying to the poster of this topic the tournament director should adjust the handicap percentage up to 230 or higher,but heres something alot of people don't consider about 230 average bowlers(most of their average comes from one big game most of the time) You can shoot 279 211 200 and that's a 230 average,i see this all the time in league with the guys who average 230 one big game makes there average. Does this really count as a 230 average when the bowler only shot one game over 230?

However you avg 230, youre still avging 230. Whether you go 230,230,230 or 190,200,300, youre still avging 230. And if youre doing it consistently, then how can criticize that? Lets try to not belittle someone else's accomplishments. Again, end of the day, that person is avging big for a reason. Handicap is in place to even the field, that is all and thats all it should be. Handicap is always a touchy subject but not the problem, nor scratch bowlers doing what theyre supposed to do. Which is strike... A LOT! Can get mad at a bowler for doing what they are supposed to do.
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ward845

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Re: Scratch bowlers in Handicapped brackets
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2012, 01:42:38 PM »
Yes a 230 average is just that when three games are combined but with the nature of brackets a 230 average don't mean a thing and most of the time shooting one big game in brackets. Mean nothing

bass

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Re: Scratch bowlers in Handicapped brackets
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2012, 02:25:11 PM »
Just don't get in brackets.
That way you break even every time.

That's my philosophy.

Seems to work for me.

Only time I will get in brackets is at Nationals.
free agency it is until i get a better offer.   LMAO