BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: leenhouston on August 03, 2012, 06:13:03 AM
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Would someone please explain the logic of scribing a layout into the surface of the ball, other than "it is easier to replicate the layout". I see no purpose to it other than to mess up the appearance of a ball and if it is ever re-drilled, the original scribe is now a nuisance, not help and quite frankly, any decent ball driller should be able to easily replicate a layout without having lines to copy.
I like to try new equipment so I pick up a lot of used equipment and plug and drill it myself so that I can save some money. Quite frankly, I will typically pass on a ball that is scribed.
I know it doesn't affect performance but it is a trend I would like to see go away.
If I'm missing something here, please tell me.
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Most pro or amateur regional bowlers will scribe the ball because if you win the ball is checked afterwards. Just makes it easier for the official to be able to check the ball. Some amateur bowlers do it so that if they change something or they may want to go back to something they liked they can with having to look up their own stats. You dont normally see it otherwise. Back in the day, they used to do a "tour tip" which was a small round indentation in the ball above the fingers. I believe it was to show that the ball had be checked.
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The small shallow mill hole above the fingers was for a durometer test, to make sure the ball hadn't had the coverstock soaked and made softer.
You can easily check a balls weights without the grip being scribed.
Many feel scribing gives a finer line to hit while drilling and leads to greater accuracy in drilling.
I personally feel that you can use a grease pencil and be as accurate but to each their own.
On the PBA truck where few are paying for the balls and they are drilling lots of balls in a hurry I believe it helps in not having to keep pencils sharp, breaking them, etc.
But for most bowlers buying from proshops they don't want the scribe lines on their balls.
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I think what leenhouston is referring to is using a scribe to layout a ball instead of a grease pencil. I know what you mean if you are wanting to buy a used ball. But some may feel a pencil makes too wide of a mark thus making the accuracy of the drill less.
My driller uses a pencil for the layout but will scribe the actual layout (i.e. 60 x 5 x 40)used and make a small * on the PAP. I like that so if someone asks about the ball, I will have a reminder of the layout and PAP when discussing that ball's reaction.
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Here's from a article about the PBA’s Mobile Service Trucks
"Most pro shops use a grease pencil to mark the balls for drilling," Snellbaker says. "Scribing is much better, since it leaves a permanent record of the work and allows greater accuracy. We drill with an accuracy of 128th of an inch." Thompson adds, "Some players' feel is more sensitive, so the degree of accuracy really counts."
also when they drill balls, it's like a assembly line. The balls pass from hand to hand and pencil marks can get rubbed off.
Scribing is just a surface scratch and if you sand your balls (say changing surfaces) it will disappear.
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Here's from a article about the PBA’s Mobile Service Trucks
"Most pro shops use a grease pencil to mark the balls for drilling," Snellbaker says. "Scribing is much better, since it leaves a permanent record of the work and allows greater accuracy. We drill with an accuracy of 128th of an inch." Thompson adds, "Some players' feel is more sensitive, so the degree of accuracy really counts."
also when they drill balls, it's like a assembly line. The balls pass from hand to hand and pencil marks can get rubbed off.
Scribing is just a surface scratch and if you sand your balls (say changing surfaces) it will disappear.
+1
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The truck is not accurate to 1/128th of an inch...have friends on tour and they come back with a mixed bag of stuff that they say feels like poo. When we check stuff gets missed on a pretty regular basis.
Scribing if you're not on tour is for douchebags who want to look cool. If you know how to read a ruler you don't need a thin line. If you know which side of a grease pencil line you're hitting, or where on the line the mark is, it doesn't matter how thick it is.
If you're talking about scribing a layout...that's probably the worst idea I have ever heard. You can trace a layout backwards to find out what it is in about 13 seconds.
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Here's from a article about the PBA’s Mobile Service Trucks
"Most pro shops use a grease pencil to mark the balls for drilling," Snellbaker says. "Scribing is much better, since it leaves a permanent record of the work and allows greater accuracy. We drill with an accuracy of 128th of an inch." Thompson adds, "Some players' feel is more sensitive, so the degree of accuracy really counts."
also when they drill balls, it's like a assembly line. The balls pass from hand to hand and pencil marks can get rubbed off.
Scribing is just a surface scratch and if you sand your balls (say changing surfaces) it will disappear.
This sounds like a great BS sales pitch...
I do not believe there is ANY WAY anyone drills to 1/128". That equates to .0078" The scribe line is thicker than 1/128" alone so that statement patently false. And those scratches as they call them are typically pretty deep and you really have to strip A LOT of ball away to get rid of them, I know, I've done it before.
Anyway.. just a pet peeve of mine.
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My driller doesn't scribe the layout with the lines and all. He simply puts the "60 x 4 x 40" very small near his fingers. And if you are in the proshop, yes, you can retrace the layout quickly, but not necessarily away from the shop. I don't do it to my equipment, but can see some benefit. To each his own. It isn't up to me to decide if what another person does is a bad idea or not.
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Lol, +1 @russell.
Was trying to say that w/o so many words.
@Pinbuster
Thanks, i remember the mill hole just couldnt exactly why.
Most ppl who scribe balls are on staff anyways, not your avg hojoe's. Meaning, they're not going to be trying to move they're equipment on br.com. As i said you dont really see it. Its doesnt really affect reaction but it makes the ball look like poo if you move the drilling.
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the original reason why bowling balls are scribed, was at PBA & mega-bucks events, for the simple matter of the lines don't get wiped off. And the only way they may be more precise is if the person putting the lines on the ball are precise....
I have personally drilled over 200 (216 to be exact) in a one day spread and there is no way I could have drilled them without scribe lines...
In a normal shop (and there are very few in the world that do the volume) they should not need to use scribe lines unless the person wanted them.
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the original reason why bowling balls are scribed, was at PBA & mega-bucks events, for the simple matter of the lines don't get wiped off. And the only way they may be more precise is if the person putting the lines on the ball are precise....
I have personally drilled over 200 (216 to be exact) in a one day spread and there is no way I could have drilled them without scribe lines...
In a normal shop (and there are very few in the world that do the volume) they should not need to use scribe lines unless the person wanted them.
Once again, Thank you, Rico, for the relative truth.
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It is used more as a way to prevent the pencil marks from smearing especially on the truck. A good friend of mine worked on the truck for a year. As many balls as he drilled it was like an assembly line. He did not move (other than rest room) the drill press for 14 straight hours. He drilled ball after ball. And with reps and bowlers passing in and out pencil marks would get smeared and wipe off. Aside from that its a personal preferance. I have my stuff scribed but thats just me. Some drillers in my area have pencil marks that you can hit and still be off by an amount that I can feel.
And as a side note the guys on the truck dont pay for balls they are free you pay for the drilling. Plus on the truck they put 3 or 4 holes in it and thats it. If you want an oval of fingers or thumb its an extra cost per oval per hole. They dont install the its or the switch grips so the difference in feeling comes from the person working them out.
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+1 for Rico for your more precise explanation concerning this subject...
He applied the layout, scribed AND drilled 3 of my pieces at the Megas (and this is back when he worked for Brunswick, as well when Big B sponsored the Mini hosted at The Orleans).
Rico... still need that layout you did on that Radical Inferno, ;D
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Do you still have the ball? And yeah that was 10 yrs ago.....my memory ain't so good ;D
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Makes sense in reference to quanity of bowling balls laid out and drilled and not wanting to erase the layout from the ball.
For accuracy you can always make the grease pencil sharper for thin lines. If you can hit that, etching it won't make you better. It will make it easier to see how much you missed by lol
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I don't see a huge deal with scribing. I leave it up to the customer, after all it is their purchase. There is also different ways to scribe, one being scribing the entire drilling layout and the other just scribing the actual cut lines which you barely can see if you're hitting your lines.
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I scribe all my balls before drilling. I use a mill press with digital display and just like knowing I'm hitting exactly what my lines are. I don't drill for too many other people and they request the scribe lines as well.
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Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. First of all, if someone buys a ball and wants to scribe it, that is their right. I try and scribe all my stuff because it is more accurate and looks professional. Sotthat's fine if tou don't like it, just don't buy the used ball then. What's the big issue with people doing it or the purpose of this post.
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I scribe all my stuff, but I may lay it out and not drill it for a period of time, because my customers' equipment comes first, and I don't want the grease pencil lines to get erased.
I scribe for very few customers anymore, but I will scribe a small line below the thumb hole for people who use the Vise IT, so they can see if their thumb is lined up properly, as they may not have heard or felt the thumb click into place.
As Sean said, for him, myself, and a couple others that drill MANY balls, I write the dual angle numbers on the ball next to the ring finger so I and they can remember the layout numbers, but this is only a couple guys.
We used to scribe a lot of balls for customers, rarely did anyone complain, but I don't do it very often anymore. I feel it is more accurate, specially when going fast, but I try not to go too fast anymore, quality over quantity.
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Scribed or not, you still have to be able to hit lines. Russell said it best. Lol harsh, but honest. But as far as speed, scribing cuts out several steps, so like Rico said, no way he drills 216 balls in a day without scribing, not possible. But as far as accuracy, that has to do with your skills measuring and then hitting lines. I'd say if you're CONSISTENTLY accurate to 1/32-1/64, that's about as good as you can reasonably ask for. Everybody here has absolutely nailed layouts repeatedly, but we've all had those balls that end up a little longer or shorter than they should have.
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It's personal preference. Nothing more, nothing less. There are pencil sharpeners that do fine work when used.
Some drillers go crazy with the scribe lines. Mine, when scribed, are about 1/2" long. I draw some lines in pencil on every ball, then hand it to my driller. If he uses a scribe it's no big deal UNLESS HE MISSES THE SCRIBED LINES, then I would give him some serious ribbing. I've never seen him miss though. ;)
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Scribed lines can be a shocker when you're buying a used ball and the seller does not tell you it has deep, deep scribed lines. When you see scribed lines deeper than almost any scratch and you intended to redrill the ball so the lines wind up near the oil lines, you can get a little "miffed", to say the least!!!
I had received one such ball before I ever knew about scribing and let me tell you, I was one unhappy camper. I must have sanded that ball into a marble and I still couldn't get rid of those scribed lines.
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All of my balls are scribed, wouldn't have it any other way.
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Just scribe a little old ladies new ball and see if you don't a purse over the head.
You can be just as accurate with a wax pencil, it just takes measuring to the edge of the lines.
You can be ok with it, but a lot of customers will not be.
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95% of customers can't feel an 1/16" difference in span, never mind the difference if you hit the edge of a pencil line vs. the middle, as long as you sharpened it this month.
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95% of customers can't feel an 1/16" difference in span, never mind the difference if you hit the edge of a pencil line vs. the middle, as long as you sharpened it this month.
Can't tell a 1/16" difference??
Are they deaf, dumb and blind???
I had trouble with a drilled ball about 8 years ago or so. I asked my driller to remeasure it. I had no idea what the cause of the ill fitting problem was. It turned out the span was off by 1/32". It felt like a huge difference to me.
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95% of customers can't feel an 1/16" difference in span, never mind the difference if you hit the edge of a pencil line vs. the middle, as long as you sharpened it this month.
I'm glad you're not drilling my stuff with that attitude.
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95% of customers can't feel an 1/16" difference in span, never mind the difference if you hit the edge of a pencil line vs. the middle, as long as you sharpened it this month.
Can't tell a 1/16" difference??
Are they deaf, dumb and blind???
I had trouble with a drilled ball about 8 years ago or so. I asked my driller to remeasure it. I had no idea what the cause of the ill fitting problem was. It turned out the span was off by 1/32". It felt like a huge difference to me.
+1 .... I am very sensitive to feel and like Charlest, I can even feel 1/32" difference.
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Northface, trust me, you can't do much better than having me behind the press drilling you a ball.
All the guys on this site think they are the typical pro shop customer. There are way more times when a new customer comes into the shop with 3 balls, all three are different and they have no idea they are different, than a guy coming in with 3 the same.
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I've got to agree here. I have no doubts most people here can feel even up to 1/32, but your average customer is a different animal. And where is this implied attitude? Making a statement that the average customer can't feel a difference of 1/16 has nothing to do with his integrity or work, it's a simple statement of fact, not a reflection on his work practices. If he would have followed the statement up by saying, "and since they can't feel it I don't worry too much about being super accurate," then you would have a point. Everybody likes to complain about me bitching about stuff, but there are so many people that go so far out of their way on this site to start an argument or get pissy that it's insane.
Northface, trust me, you can't do much better than having me behind the press drilling you a ball.
All the guys on this site think they are the typical pro shop customer. There are way more times when a new customer comes into the shop with 3 balls, all three are different and they have no idea they are different, than a guy coming in with 3 the same.
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Gizmo, you contradicted yourself.
" I have no doubts most people here can feel even up to 1/32"
Aren't most people here average? There sure aren't many tour players here, so that makes MOST of the people regular average joes that bowl and love bowling.
"but your average customer is a different animal"
Why? The average customer deserves and gets the best possible service which includes the most precise drilling possible. (My previous shop was named my Precision Pro Shop)
The attitude came from allaboutme statement, that most people can't feel a 1/16 and his tone was why bother??
I've got to agree here. I have no doubts most people here can feel even up to 1/32, but your average customer is a different animal. And where is this implied attitude? Making a statement that the average customer can't feel a difference of 1/16 has nothing to do with his integrity or work, it's a simple statement of fact, not a reflection on his work practices. If he would have followed the statement up by saying, "and since they can't feel it I don't worry too much about being super accurate," then you would have a point. Everybody likes to complain about me bitching about stuff, but there are so many people that go so far out of their way on this site to start an argument or get pissy that it's insane.
Northface, trust me, you can't do much better than having me behind the press drilling you a ball.
All the guys on this site think they are the typical pro shop customer. There are way more times when a new customer comes into the shop with 3 balls, all three are different and they have no idea they are different, than a guy coming in with 3 the same.
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In going back and reading what I wrote, the "why bother" attitude is there, but that wasn't how it was meant. But I stand by my assessment of people's feel or lack there of.
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Gizmo, you contradicted yourself.
" I have no doubts most people here can feel even up to 1/32"
Aren't most people here average? There sure aren't many tour players here, so that makes MOST of the people regular average joes that bowl and love bowling.
"but your average customer is a different animal"
Why? The average customer deserves and gets the best possible service which includes the most precise drilling possible. (My previous shop was named my Precision Pro Shop)
The attitude came from allaboutme statement, that most people can't feel a 1/16 and his tone was why bother??
I've got to agree here. I have no doubts most people here can feel even up to 1/32, but your average customer is a different animal. And where is this implied attitude? Making a statement that the average customer can't feel a difference of 1/16 has nothing to do with his integrity or work, it's a simple statement of fact, not a reflection on his work practices. If he would have followed the statement up by saying, "and since they can't feel it I don't worry too much about being super accurate," then you would have a point. Everybody likes to complain about me bitching about stuff, but there are so many people that go so far out of their way on this site to start an argument or get pissy that it's insane.
Northface, trust me, you can't do much better than having me behind the press drilling you a ball.
All the guys on this site think they are the typical pro shop customer. There are way more times when a new customer comes into the shop with 3 balls, all three are different and they have no idea they are different, than a guy coming in with 3 the same.
Don't bother with Gizmo, he's the biggest windbag to grace this site in sometime, and I've been here over a decade.
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In going back and reading what I wrote, the "why bother" attitude is there, but that wasn't how it was meant. But I stand by my assessment of people's feel or lack there of.
I agree with you, the majority of customers just bowl with it, no matter how bad it is, some don't even know it's bad. But, that's how I earn return business, give them the best customer service possible, show them what I can do for them, and why their balls feel and release the way they do. When I'm done, they are usually very happy, and glad they found me. Unfortunately, there are not many good pro shops in the Houston area, but I own two of 'em!!
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In going back and reading what I wrote, the "why bother" attitude is there, but that wasn't how it was meant. But I stand by my assessment of people's feel or lack there of.
No harm, no foul. The overture of your post exuded arrogance and "why bother" tone, that's why I was put off.