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Author Topic: Just a question about the game itself...  (Read 1481 times)

Shoutout33

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Just a question about the game itself...
« on: December 09, 2003, 10:22:02 PM »
do any of you here on the forums believe that bowling is going downhill because of the newer technology and equipment? I read a thread on the PBA forums by Brian Voss (one of the greatest to play the game I might add...), and he was basically saying that bowling has lost it's value as a sport due to the newer bowling balls and equipment. Not too long ago on BallReviews fourms, someone mentioned that Marshall Holman has given up on trying to learn the "new" game of bowling.

Now, I didn't grow up in the polyester age, but I was around during the urethane age. (born 1970) While your at it, there were still some folks throwing rubber balls for that matter. Has bowling to me gotten worse? It'd be kind of hard to say. My Dad was not a big fan of the urethane balls because he said he couldn't control them, over/under, too strong yada yada yada. I see the same thing happening now with reactives and particles that was happening with the urethanes. This is why I'm confused (as far as people complaining about equipment). As a youngster, I still noticed people being competitive with rubber and polyester, even with the urethanes taking over.

I honestly look at it this way, "If you could stroke it then, you can stroke it now!". Hell, I remember throwing agianst some older cat in my early to mid-twenties thinking, "Man, this is gonna be easy!"...I ended up loosing points, one to be too cocky, but two because the old timer had a chance too keep up with a young cat with his old tried but true stroking style. What. Should I be mad because the equipment helped the old man be competitive? That's rich! See my point? Every other sport in the world is effected by technology. Ok, check this out. Football, basketball, and baseball players are HUGE and strong as HELL nowadays, so obviously, they need better gear to protect them as well as to help them to perform (Astro turf sucks though...). Golfers are more physically fit to be more competitive even with the new equipment. Yeah, you can hit the newer balls farther now, but you still have to know how to hit that damn little white ball in the first place! How many bowlers do you know now that are trying to have a strong physical game to go along with their mental game and their mechanics? Plus I don't see anyone complaining about the recent technology changes with shoes, bags, and or accesories? (If your gonna' complain do the best that you can.)

In some ways I feel where these pros are coming from, I really do, but in many ways I think they want us to stay stagnant in the sport too. I mean, look at Pete Weber. He STILL thrives even though he had an exremely hard time adjusting to the new equipment. But look what happened, he found some equipment that matched up with HIS style of bowling. Nuff Said. I bet when Voss and Holman qualify for the Senior tour, they'll be tearing it up there. No doubt in my mind one bit. Do you think the seniors will complain about them when they are the "new" kids in town?

One thing that bothers me the most, is Voss said that people would lose respect for the pros because theY bowl high games like the pros do in their leauge nights. Now, is there anyone here on these forums who think that the pros are a joke? Just because the equipment is better doesn't mean I'm gonna' be able to take out Voss or Holman! You STILL need skill to beat these guys, whether its a little or a lot. Anyone can be beaten in our sport at any given time. What I'd like to see is for the ABC to make THE "competitive" leauges have a tougher shot (mabey a sport shot) and why not bring back the Brunswick Pro Pins, not only for the pros but for all competitve leauge and tourney bowling. If you're making the ball stronger hell, make the pins stronger too.

Now I'm babbling, but you get my point. This is JUST my opinion people, and I love both Voss and Holman, but jeez, like my Dad would tell me to do when the lanes started to break down...adjust!
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When you've moved up, moved back, adjusted left and right, cupped, flattened out, have thrown everyting in your arsenal, and the pins still don't cooperate, just say, "Aw to HELL with it!", and throw the ball!

 

charlest

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Re: Just a question about the game itself...
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2003, 02:21:43 PM »
I won't get into the Pro aspect of the game, but I will comment on the league aspect.

WHILE:
I have seen a drop in the number of participants and the demise of several leagues for many reasons:
- high price of bowling
- demand by centers for a committment to a full 36 weeks of bowling
- many other forms of entertainment
- children's particpation in organized sports/games imposes many more demands on parents than previously

I have also seen that the enthusiasm that those who still bowl for fun in one or more leagues is greater than it has ever been. I have subbed in a number of leagues over the years, besides the leagues I am in. More people who bowl have incredible dedication to the "game" and to the "sport" (2 different animals) and they make sure they are there, at their appointed time, come hell or high water, especially snow we have here in the East !

This comes to mind easily because I subbed last night, in a league I had never been to before, and the team we bowled were true bowling lovers, every one of them. Win or lose, they just loved to bowl and to be there. AND I saw that enthusiasm in several other teams last night. Made me feel good, now that I think of it; makes me feel good right now, writing this.
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"Just because you can do something does not mean you should do it."
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

9andaWiggle

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Re: Just a question about the game itself...
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2003, 03:52:50 PM »
quote:
One thing that bothers me the most, is Voss said that people would lose respect for the pros because theY bowl high games like the pros do in their leauge nights. Now, is there anyone here on these forums who think that the pros are a joke? Just because the equipment is better doesn't mean I'm gonna' be able to take out Voss or Holman!


I don't think anyone on these boards think the Pro's are a joke.  I believe Voss and many others here who bring up the "credibility" of bowling today are concerned for the PBA and it's welfare - and rightfully so.  Due to todays easy lane patterns and aggressive bowling balls, Joe League Bowler (who is not as "in the know" as people on this site are and in the MAJORITY of bowlers worldwide) will look at Voss shooting 220's on TV and think "So what, Bob Jones on Thursday night avgs 225, so Voss isn't any better than people in my own league!  I bet ol' Bob would whoop this boy if he came out here to bowl!"  And don't for a second think this is absurd - I had a guy who watched a few frames of last weeks telecast say basically the same thing to me.  You can explain the PBA patterns and other differences all night - and when you're done all you get is a deer in the headlights look in return.

Therefore, IMO, these guys have a legitimate gripe - at what point do you wake up and realize the easy lane conditions and aggressive equipment are helping the MAJORITY of bowlers lose respect for the talent the Pros possess?  The PBA will only exist as long as it makes money, and to make money people have to watch and be interested in it.  If the majority of the bowlers (regardless of their ignorance) feel that the Pros are no better than Bob Jones on their Sunday night league and lose interest in the Pros, then how can the PBA survive?

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9~
Little Bo Peep has lost her sheep...

I wonder where they went? ;)

da Shiv

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Re: Just a question about the game itself...
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2003, 04:35:56 PM »
This thread has been a pleasure to read.  I see the sort of enjoyment of the game/sport of bowling mentioned by charlest all the time, and it is a major part of my enjoyment of the whole outing when I go bowling.  

 
quote:
Made me feel good, now that I think of it; makes me feel good right now, writing this


Made me feel good reading it.

 
quote:
The only thing I know for sure is that no dooomsday
                                        critic ever got disallusioned with the game because the game was too easy for them. Rather is was because the game seemed to be
                                        too easy for the other guy.  


I make a particular point of trying to read Bob Hanson's posts, because they never fail to be astute and teach me something.  The quote above rings particularly true.

This is one of those times when I really like this site.

Shiv
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Listening to the monotonous staccato of rain on my desk top
Listening to the monotonous staccato of rain on my desk top

9andaWiggle

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Re: Just a question about the game itself...
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2003, 08:58:21 PM »
Bob - I appreciate the perspective you gave of the changes and similar reactions you have witnessed over the years.  However, I have to ask because I simply do not know, did you ever hear league bowlers in any of those transitional periods referring to the pro's and saying "so what, Bobby over there shoots better'n them guys"?  Maybe the part of the country I grew up in was filled with lousy bowlers, but we all thought the world of them in the 80's (sorry, that's as far back as I go LOL) - nobody in our association was even near what the Pro's were in avg.

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9~
Little Bo Peep has lost her sheep...

I wonder where they went? ;)

SrKegler

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Re: Just a question about the game itself...
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2003, 09:25:48 PM »
I can remember us watching the tour during the 70s & 80s.  Back then they used to show us the pattern, oiled to 35', buffed to 40', etc.  While "occasionally" us hackers could put up big scores to match the pros, we knew we did it on the shorter (24') patterns and could look at our averages and realize we didn't have a chance against those guys.  I can remember Earl averaging around 220-225 for a tournament, look at my little 190 and know there wasn't anyway I could compete.

All the other scratch bowlers felt the same way.  Tougher conditions, higher averages on the pro tour.
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~~~SrK - Have balls, will travel
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Shoutout33

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Re: Just a question about the game itself...
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2003, 10:43:25 AM »
People, thank you so much for replying to this topic. It means so much to me I could cry. I really feel this needs to be addressed in many ways. Me personally, I like seeing the latest greatest thing come out. I just don't like the fact that the bigger ball companies flood the market with so much stuff. People will say, "That allows each level of bowler to choose what's best for them." pfft, whatever. I feel it confuses a person more choosing from 10 mid priced balls then having to wonder about the next five coming out.

I've ALWAYS loved this sport and hopefully I always will. One cliche that definitely applies to bowling more than any other is, "The more things change, the more things stay the same". I love the final comment Bob Hanson wrote:

 
quote:
Time will tell whether the critics in each era were all just guys whose time had passed and were equally wrong, or whether we started on a technological journey 30 years ago that will ultimately destroy the game. The only thing I know for sure is that no dooomsday critic ever got disallusioned with the game because the game was too easy for them. Rather it was because the game seemed to be too easy for the other guy.


This is about as good as gets right here!
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When you've moved up, moved back, adjusted left and right, cupped, flattened out, have thrown everyting in your arsenal, and the pins still don't cooperate, just say, "Aw to HELL with it!", and throw the ball!