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Author Topic: Should bowling always be 12 frame game?  (Read 4405 times)

johns811

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Should bowling always be 12 frame game?
« on: May 02, 2022, 02:55:55 PM »
This might sound kind of silly. I probably bowled  the best I have ever executed (not scored) and shot 782 4 9pin spares, 1 open. I compared my printout to some of my 800's from 20 years ago and the main reason I came up short of 800 was 9/ in the 10th frame game 1 and 2 (10 pin errr). So I started to think why is there basically a bonus for striking in 10th and 11th. If a game was 12 frames 300 would still be max. We already have an easy house shot, reactive balls, 2 handed 20 mph crankers, virtually no awards anymore. How about give the lesser player a change at 2 more frames. Why does an open in the 10th have to be so penalizing. Just a thought...

 

SG17

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Re: Should bowling always be 12 frame game?
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2022, 10:45:42 PM »
this proposed alternative scoring sounds like the bowling version of "new" coke. 

Bowls 300s

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Re: Should bowling always be 12 frame game?
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2022, 09:12:43 AM »
Bowls:  you are absolutely correct on large scale lane blocking and the evolution of the modern machine. It did come out of the switch to hard lane finishes in the 70s. 

The thing that changed with the introduction of resin was ability of the balls to radically and quickly destroy an oil pattern. 

It is too bad because the modern lane machines provided the opportunity to create patterns of varying degrees of challenge. 

It does little good when high rev players are able to throw 300 grit surface balls and quickly carve up a pattern.  I dint understand how USBC can be fixated on softness and ignore the impact of aggressively altering the ball surface

Great points and I align with your stated views Bob.

On ball surfacing, hardness and our governing bodies guidance I guess I deflect back to my negative view of the ABC in general and their questionable motives. I hate every conditioning rulling they have made since 1980 and know they where influenced by proprietors so how can I trust a single test, study or decision they have made in regard to any equipment? Let alone trust they focus their attention on the real issue or see one you speak too?

My hope for a governing body is one that is transparent, independant so to act above approach and first job to maintain their sports integrity. So my view of how the USBC should act adds up to 40 plus years of failure but also maybe more importantly lack of vision.

I get a baseline for hardness and never any problem with their ruling there.
To your knowledge have they graphed a pattern with aggresively sanded or modern reactive coverstocks and compared? Pattern wear should shake out fast and approving any method, cover that creates rapid deteriontion / destruction of a pattern is an epic failure or further example of their bubbling oversight.

All that said fun to yak about and love this game as much as ever.


Certified A Mechanic (1400 Hours) - Taylor Trained PSO - (4) Professional Bowling Camps - Center Manager Independant & Corporate. Family owned Centers since 50s.

Bowler19525

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Re: Should bowling always be 12 frame game?
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2022, 11:29:43 AM »
USBC has done extensive studies on coverstocks, which resulted in the current limits on oil absorption rates.  USBC claims the absorption rate limits help preserve the lane condition.  Prevents balls from soaking up too much oil after repeated use, etc.

In terms of surface roughness, USBC will not approve balls with a roughness greater than 65 micro inches.

avabob

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Re: Should bowling always be 12 frame game?
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2022, 01:37:46 PM »
Aggressive sanding not only blows up the pattern but is hard on the lane surface in terms if wear and tear.  Most synthetic surfaces more than 10 or 15 years old are in terrible shape at high lineage houses

bradl

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Re: Should bowling always be 12 frame game?
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2022, 03:30:06 PM »
this proposed alternative scoring sounds like the bowling version of "new" coke.

If that's the case, then could the Petraglia scoring system be considered the bowling version of Zima?

BL.

MI 2 AZ

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Re: Should bowling always be 12 frame game?
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2022, 11:27:24 PM »


In terms of surface roughness, USBC will not approve balls with a roughness greater than 65 micro inches.

I don't understand the micro inches reference.  Per this site conversion, 65 micro inches is about 1.6 microns.

https://metric-calculator.com/convert-microinch-to-micron.htm

Then trying to convert the 1.6 microns to grit, it comes out to about 13,000 grit which I have not seen any sandpaper at that grit.

https://www.bestsharpeningstones.com/article_details.php?id=1&article_name=Micron%20to%20Grit%20Conversion%20Calculator

So, if all of those conversions are correct, no bowling ball I own would pass USBC's  65 micro inches spec.

I know something is off, so could someone correct me?  Thanks.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2022, 11:34:40 PM by MI 2 AZ »
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Bowler19525

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Re: Should bowling always be 12 frame game?
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2022, 11:47:57 PM »
A chart I saw indicated that 65 micro inches was approximately 100 grit.  70 micro inches is 80 grit.  If the USBC is putting a limit at 65, they are essentially saying that a ball lower than 100 grit would not pass the approval process.

The chart showed a mirror finish as 4 micro inches, which would be fine since the USBC does not have a minimum surface roughness spec.

Could someone sand a ball with 40 grit sandpaper?  Sure they could.  But why would they?

Bowls 300s

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Re: Should bowling always be 12 frame game?
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2022, 11:01:26 AM »
A chart I saw indicated that 65 micro inches was approximately 100 grit.  70 micro inches is 80 grit.  If the USBC is putting a limit at 65, they are essentially saying that a ball lower than 100 grit would not pass the approval process.

The chart showed a mirror finish as 4 micro inches, which would be fine since the USBC does not have a minimum surface roughness spec.

Could someone sand a ball with 40 grit sandpaper?  Sure they could.  But why would they?

Has a new ball ever been released close to max spec? Interested to know.

I don't know why the bulk of games getting bowled would require more than 400 grit and personally think 200 grit has no business hitting the lane. 200 grit is a starting place for a full resurface on a gnarly ball or old school ball tracks from wood lanes exhibiting a lot of feathering with grit between the maple.

That said in my different decades of lane conditioning my thought process when designing house lane maintence programs never aligned with any of the many head mechanics I've known. My mentalilty since late 70s is to condition for the "core base" of bowlers. So basically if its rec players for the day I laid it heavier but always provided squeaky clean back ends appropriate for the final stage of the balls flight and distance of that decision based off a lot of factors.

Its just a diffent game now. This oiling before league and only on lanes with league provide zero lane protection and todays THS good for 1 league session at best. This type of maintenace program is opposite of manufactures of lane beds if you pull the pdf's of both warranty and preventive schedules. Recreation centers have won, last 20 years of bowlers do not know that conditioning the whole house 1-3 times daily was the norm so accept what they know understandably. Rec centers not conditioning for 3 days is a joke and damaging to their investment and shows no pride in the primary product they are to provide.

My local Bowlero's are good for one thing, practice drills. Good news for me I need them.

Certified A Mechanic (1400 Hours) - Taylor Trained PSO - (4) Professional Bowling Camps - Center Manager Independant & Corporate. Family owned Centers since 50s.