Post by: NHLfan88 on April 17, 2012, 04:23:51 PM
Recent topic was being discussed in my league. If you start the night (or season) throwing the ball with one (or two hands). Should you be able to switch mid game? Should you have a different average both the dumb two handed gimmick, and the normal one hand?
This was brought up when a kid was throwing one handed all night, started shooting his cross lane spares with two hands.
Post by: HankScorpio on April 17, 2012, 04:29:06 PM
Post by: NHLfan88 on April 17, 2012, 04:32:01 PM
youre not throwing the ball with one hand though. youre throwing it with two.
Then comes the question what if you start throwing back up balls with two hands? How is that legal? In that case how can you tell which hand is still dominant?
Post by: Urethane Game on April 17, 2012, 04:40:35 PM
The USBC rules that two handers have a dominate hand in their delivery just like one handers. If a two hander switched back and forth that would be illegal.
From the USBC playing rules:
118b/3 A bowler is using the two-handed approach styles with his dominate hand being
his right . Can he pick up his ten pins using only his right hand?
Yes, since both deliveries are with the same dominant hand, the bowler did not change his
delivery and therefore, is not in violation of any USBC rules.
118b/4 A player started league bowling right handed, but later decided to use a two-
handed approach . Is this a change of delivery and in violation of Rule 118b?
No, as long as all deliveries are made with the right hand, this would not be a violation of
Rule 118b.
Edited by Urethane Game on 4/17/2012 at 2:42 PM
Edited by Urethane Game on 4/17/2012 at 2:43 PM
Post by: ronsyl on April 17, 2012, 05:58:07 PM
PbA says it is OKAY as long as you use the same main hand.
Post by: arickdm on April 17, 2012, 06:35:12 PM
Post by: tdub36tjt on April 17, 2012, 06:41:58 PM
Post by: Zanatos1914 on April 17, 2012, 07:56:46 PM
Good question
2 Fingers That Converted to 5 Fingers
I Am The 3 Fingers Nightmare
Post by: charlest on April 18, 2012, 01:20:32 AM
No matter what the actual rule is or how the USBC interprets that rules, my opinion is you should have to throw the ball the way you always throw the ball, be it right one-handed,left one-handed, right two-handed or left two-handed. Since you can't switch from right one-handed to left one-handed, I don;t see any reason why you should be allowed to switch from right 2-handed to left 2-handed to to right 1-handed.
The original theory as to why it is not appropriate still holds true, you may get more pins handicap or you may change the team's average cap when switching form one style to the other.
The PBA is another whole ball of wax since no one really cares.
That said, please remember that the great Dick Weber was once fined by the PBA for throwing a back-up ball when the PBA oil pattern for that one specific tournament so obviously favored the left handers by an incredible margin. That fact that he was fined means they, the PBA, knew what they had done and they did not want any right hander changing the odds that they were trying to make a left hander win. Conclusion: never challenge a politicians when he know you knows he's wrong - he'll still make you, the private citizen, pay the maximum penalty.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: HAMMERDOWN103 on April 18, 2012, 01:30:57 AM
TRACK
EVOLUTIONARY. REVOLUTIONARY
919C/ 718A/ 503C/ 300T/ 100P
Post by: Polish_Hammer on April 19, 2012, 11:34:10 AM
Urethane game already answered this. Yes as long as you are throwing one-handed from the same side as you bowl 2-handed. Whether folks agree with the rule or not,it is the rule until changed
Post by: TWOHAND834 on April 19, 2012, 11:58:41 AM
No we are not. It looks that way but both Belmo and Randy Pedersen have stated that the left hand comes off the ball before the actual release. The release TECHINCALLY is still one handed. As mentioned many times before on this site in other forums, the opposite hand is nothing more than a glorified wrist brace. I have seen a video of myself and I am the same way. My left hand comes off the ball before the ball passes my slide leg and the release and follow through are completely one handed. At full speed, it does look like a twohanded release. But the fact remains that it isnt. I am defending this because I am living proof.
Peace doesnt always have to be silent.
Post by: batbowler on April 19, 2012, 12:00:21 PM
To me the two handed delivery isn't much different from the no thumb bowlers!! They both just use fingers for a higher rev rate only the no thumb people don't use their other hand for balance!!
Train a child up in the way they should go and when they are old they will do some "Damn Good Bowling", be a "DV8" and not turn from it, besides bowling starts with a Big B!
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
Bruce Campbell
Brunswick Staff
USBC Bronze Certified Coach
IBPSIA Certified Technician
http://www.damngoodbowling.com/catalog
USBC Bronze Certified Coach
IBPSIA Certified Technician
http://www.damngoodbowling.com/catalog
Post by: trash heap on April 19, 2012, 05:14:36 PM
Does you left hand aid in any rotation of the ball? or is the rotation of the ball done completely with right hand only?
Post by: kidlost2000 on April 19, 2012, 05:47:12 PM
Most say the second hand is for support and to help hold the ball during their arm swing. Mainly due to the bowler being too weak to cup the ball and throw it one handed with no thumb in the ball.
There is a local guy here that bowls one handed and throws the ball every bit as fast and with as much revs as Belmo. He has a strong upper body and can really muscle the ball. Belmo obviously can not and needs the second hand to throw the ball basically with no thumb. I have seen others that throw it with out a thumb and only one hand but don't generate the speed and revs as Belmo.
If it were a new wave to change the game as the PBA hyped it to be it would have happened already. Since it hasn't Im guessing it still comes down to the skill and ability of the bowler to create shots, adjust and makes spares. One handed, two handed, with or with out a thumb. It isn't a gimmick its a fact.
"1 of 1."
Post by: TWOHAND834 on April 20, 2012, 12:34:38 PM
Here is a video I posted not too long ago. My left hand doesnt physically do anything to the ball since it comes off before release and as you can see; my left arm/hand end up on the correct side of the body. My left hand is underneath the ball throughout my entire approach but in no way adds revs to the ball. I have no hops or skips in my approach either. My finish is that of a one hander as well. In the first frame, I even shoot my 10 pin one handed and you will see my footwork pretty much remains the same both one handed and two handed.
Peace doesnt always have to be silent.
Post by: bowlallthetime on April 20, 2012, 04:20:26 PM
There is nothing wrong with questioning a rule that USBC has in place. Remember they allowed prebowled 900s before they realized it was a bad rule. It's hard to understand how they can refer to the style as 2 handed, but then allow them to use 1 hand on spares. If you get technical, of course 1 hand will come off the ball a split second before the other hand. I don't care how you choose to knock down pins, 2 hands or 1. The object of the game is to knock down as many pins as possible.
The only reason I can see a rule change would be necessary is for establishing an average. If I average 220 one handed, and I decide to start next year bowling 2 handed, I will probably only average 160 until I get really comfortable with the style. So after 7 weeks of averaging 160, I now decide it's not worth it and I switch back to my 220 style. That is really a form of sandbagging that can not be regulated.
Post by: rockerbowler18 on April 20, 2012, 04:35:36 PM
Here is the answer:
If you think "belly putters are cheating! They shouldn't be allowed and they make the game too easy," but you're not using a belly putter - you're either a liar, hypocrite, or complete moron. If they make things so much easier, you'd be using one for as long as they weren't against the rules.
The same goes for 2 handed bowling.
As the rule is now - you are allowed to switch back and forth. So, if you think that switching back and forth is such a huge, exaggerated advantage that you can't possibly overcome with, oh I don't know - skill? Then you need to use this huuuuuge colossal advantage to your benefit while it's still legal by the rules.
Point being - question the rules all you want. But the rules don't give any advantage to anyone. They're the same all the way around and you can benefit from them just as much as the next guy. He doesn't obey different rules than you do.
Post by: Tripcee on April 20, 2012, 09:53:29 PM
Current in-the-bag-at-random:
Track Robo Rule - OOB - 4.5 inch span
Black Widow - OOB - 4 inch span
Hammer Taboo Pearl - OOB - 4 inch span
Midnight Vibe - OOB - 4.25 inch span
Infinite One - OOB - 4 inch span
Complete NV - OOB - 4.25 inch span
Black Widow Sting - OOB - 4 inch span
Post by: BrianCRX90 on April 21, 2012, 12:21:59 AM
Post by: bowlallthetime on April 21, 2012, 01:33:31 AM
If you don't want to discuss it, then don't click on the thread. We all know what the USBC rule is. Some of us just question if the rule should be changed. There is nothing wrong with questioning things and considering change.
Post by: BrianCRX90 on April 21, 2012, 04:19:37 PM
Post by: Arone24 on April 22, 2012, 11:36:58 AM
Post by: trash heap on April 23, 2012, 01:42:11 PM
What do you think of this?
We have a very talented 15 year old two handed bowler in the area. He can throw a backup ball with two hands, still having the ball in his right hand. I have seen him pick 10 pins up with this release. He can't play as deep as he does throwing to the right, but he can do it.
If he works on this backup release, he should be able to play both sides of the lane. Imagine having that kind of A and B game!