Post by: Russell on December 23, 2010, 09:51:01 AM
So today I went and practiced around lunchtime. I''m going to the desk to shovel over some free game passes when a sign posted catches my eye.
"We''ve listened to your feedback. A number of you have stated you would practice more if the lanes weren''t so dry. So starting Jan 4th we will be stripping and oiling the lanes twice daily, in the morning and in the evenings before league"
So....let me make sure I understand...
I have bowled in this house for years. The shot is NEVER very dry after league is done at night. At worst I am playing around 17/18 at the arrows in a 5 man team men''s league. There is PLENTY of oil....
So now to be able to "practice"...we need to be able to play the same line we''re playing in league...all of the time?
We wonder why competitive bowling is going in the p**ser? People won''t "practice"...because the lanes are dry? So practice is just chucking your new hook-in-a-box hard and fast up 9 and quitting after 4 games when it dries up?
Can''t believe people actually b**ch about this stuff....
--------------------
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Edited on 12/24/2010 9:30 AM
Post by: Dave-bestbowlingproshops on December 23, 2010, 05:56:50 PM
--------------------
www.bestbowlingproshops.com
Track Staff
Turbo Staff
Post by: Smash49 on December 23, 2010, 07:00:01 PM
Smash49
--------------------
Slick, tacky, wood or synthetic it does not matter your slide is correct with SLSM Designs Bowlers Slide Sock. The Finest Slide Sock on the Planet!!!
www.bowlersslidesock.com
IBPSIA Certified Technician
Bowlers Journal International's Top 100 Coaches!!! 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010(73)
USBC Register Volunteer
Post by: sutherngent on December 23, 2010, 07:14:18 PM
Post by: Whos Left on December 23, 2010, 10:09:18 PM
they should be applauded. Not that many businesses listen to their customers.
Post by: Bill Thomas on December 24, 2010, 05:58:11 AM
Post by: on December 24, 2010, 06:27:04 AM
Take advantage of it and fine-tune your equipment for that condition and score like crazy.
Bowl on what's there. That's all you can do. It does seem like a good thing that the center is trying to accomodate the (vocal) majority of bowlers, which should be considered a nice gesture.
--------------------
Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Pro Shop Staff
www.brunswickbowling.com
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
Post by: Russell on December 24, 2010, 06:39:17 AM
The manager of this center is great, and the staff is awesome. I ran the shop here a few years ago...like I said this is a comment about the state of our game.
--------------------
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: dizzyfugu on December 24, 2010, 06:47:49 AM
quote:
If this action is truly the result of listening to their customers, then
they should be applauded. Not that many businesses listen to their customers.
+1!
--------------------
DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Post by: Scorcho on December 24, 2010, 06:58:08 AM
Post by: devildog819 on December 24, 2010, 07:08:56 AM
The bowling "realist" says that I want to score, PERIOD.
We live in a bowling environment of reality and that reality is that bowlers want scores. They dont care about how easy the shot is. For them, scores equal confidence and repeat visits. That is good for business and should be applauded.
--------------------
Roger Harley, Jr
IBPSIA Certified Technician
USBC Bronze Coach
Brunswick Advisory Staff
***The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Bowling & Billards Corporation***
Post by: Russell on December 24, 2010, 07:14:36 AM
--------------------
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: JOE FALCO on December 24, 2010, 07:49:25 AM
Post by: Russell on December 24, 2010, 08:17:41 AM
quote:
I'm confused .. If I'm a league bowler going back to practice in the house where I bowl league .. Isn't it beneficial for me to bowl on the league lane condition?
What does the condition have to do with "practice"? If you normally play 10 at the arrows, but are moving to 15 because they are dry in the morning, is your timing suddenly different? The lane condition isn't the constant...it's supposed to be YOU. This is the problem....we expect the lane to be constant.
--------------------
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: JOE FALCO on December 24, 2010, 08:25:29 AM
But I guess that kind of thinking doesn't hold up if I did outstanding in league! The question is .. do most league bowlers do outstanding during league or do they want to practice on the same condition to improve?
I guess it can be looked at a number of ways!
Post by: Nicanor on December 24, 2010, 08:47:42 AM
But some dasys we go in to practice and the lanes are extemely dry probalbly left over from the night before. Now for some of us older bowlers, probably some youngers one also, bowling on lanes that are dry, much more then we're use to, makes us try to relase the ball differently and with more velocity then what our bodies really want to do. So oiling twice a day is good payback to the bowlers that both practice and bowl league in the house.
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: Brickguy221 on December 24, 2010, 08:48:28 AM
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If this action is truly the result of listening to their customers, then
they should be applauded. Not that many businesses listen to their customers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+1!
--------------------
DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
+2....
--------------------
"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."
Brick
Post by: batbowler on December 24, 2010, 08:52:14 AM
P.S. this is part of the reasons that I'm retiring from league bowling and working in a bowling center after about 40 years of bowling and almost 30 years in the bowling business!!!!
--------------------
"Train a child up in the way they should go and when they are old they will "Bowl the world over", "Bowl to win", hit like a "Hammer" and not turn from it!
Bruce Campbell
USBC Bronze Certified Coach
IBPSIA Certified Technician
Originator of the -35deg x 25 leverage drilling!
http://www.motivbowling.com/products/2/
http://www.brunswickbowling.com/
red]
Post by: scotts33 on December 24, 2010, 08:54:21 AM
My ONLY issue is when they want high dollar for practice time. Other than that prefer poor conditions to see how my ball reaction is vs. easy oiled conditions to mask the ball reaction.
I don't practice for score anyway.
--------------------
Scott
Post by: JOE FALCO on December 24, 2010, 10:05:14 AM
quote:
WTF???? Now we are complaining about lane conditions we practice on? Give me a break. Not directed at you, Russell. I''m reading Falco''s and Nicanor''s posts and my eyes are bleeding.
I''m willing to see this in your perspective .. please show me where the complaint is in the following description! Thanks!
PS I see by your profile you are a great guy .. so MERRY CHRISTMAS to you and your friends!
quote:[
Well I guess I picture it that during league (3 games) I just couldn''t get the ball I was using to react the way I expected .. if I go back and practice perhaps I can try things I couldn''t within the 3 games of league.
But I guess that kind of thinking doesn''t hold up if I did outstanding in league! The question is .. do most league bowlers do outstanding during league or do they want to practice on the same condition to improve?
I guess it can be looked at a number of ways!
Edited on 12/24/2010 12:04 PM
Post by: Tex on December 24, 2010, 10:47:04 AM
I have always felt that at least on Saturday they should run the lanes since no league is held until Sunday night. If for no other reason than to protect the surface. Running them every day, seems like a waste of money in most cases. I could also see them running fresh on Thursday night and promoting that the shot will be fresh for practice. I would even part of the lanes with the Classic leagus shot and the others with the standard. I know that not a lot of "league bowlers" would take advantage of the fresh practice conditions, but maybe if just a couple pair were fresh and word got around. Maybe?
Post by: Nicanor on December 24, 2010, 12:05:07 PM
What a joke you are. This is just bowling. Bowling is just about as meaningless as your reply.
The strength, flexibility as well as other factors into senior bowling. Who do you think fill the bowling centers the most during the day. It won''''''''t be very many bowlers with 750 rev rate, 12 800''''''''s and a ton of 300''''''''s. For weekends when the house if full of recreational bowlers I could see not prepping the lanes (except it might save the lanes a little bit) but there is nothing wrong with wanting to practice on your league shot. Not everyone wants to be a member of the PBA.
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Edited on 12/24/2010 2:04 PM
Edited on 12/24/2010 2:05 PM
Edited on 12/24/2010 2:05 PM
Post by: RyanRPS on December 24, 2010, 12:18:59 PM
quote:
Please read my second reply...I'm not directing this towards something that Brunswick has done wrong...I'm directing this at the morons who complained.
If the lanes were too dry then getting more oil to practise on is a good thing..
I get that you think practise shouldn't matter what your bowling on, but you realistically cant practise playing some shots if there is no oil.
Practising on oil is better than practising on no oil. I dont bother to practise anymore in my local center because I find no advantage of practising on try lanes.
Ryan
--------------------
Ryan Press - Seismic Staff Member
www.seismicbowling.com
Post by: APheLion on December 24, 2010, 12:39:03 PM
quote:
If the lanes were too dry then getting more oil to practise on is a good thing..
I get that you think practise shouldn't matter what your bowling on, but you realistically cant practise playing some shots if there is no oil.
Practising on oil is better than practising on no oil. I dont bother to practise anymore in my local center because I find no advantage of practising on try lanes.
Ryan
--------------------
Ryan Press - Seismic Staff Member
www.seismicbowling.com
on that i have to agree, for us who wants to practice different lines on the lanes, we need oil to do so, if theres none, then no point spending money for nothing.
now, extra comments, its good that the center decides to oil before league, so u guys get a consistent pattern week in and out, so more scores after all.
and its not even new that people bowling the sport shot leagues complaining that they cant score and they are losing money because they cant play their beloved second arrow.
now Russell, i say, let those bowlers complain all they want, u wont change the way it is, b**chin about others b**chin is a waste of time
--------------------
When a house bowler misses the mark, misses the break point and strike, for many ppl its called a wallshot. When a pro does that its call adjustment
When a house bowler gets his finger stuck in the ball and fall on the lanes, for many ppl its called lame bowler. When a pro does that its called the Machuga flop! ha i like this one.
Post by: Russell on December 24, 2010, 01:05:48 PM
On Wednesday night they have two shifts of league. This is the most traffic they see and if you came in the next morning you might have to play 3rd arrow if you're a straight player. I am usually looking around 22 or 23 at the arrows.
Like I said...they've always done the lanes on Sat and Sun mornings...during the week they leave them alone...but they aren't that dry.
--------------------
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: Strapper_Squared on December 24, 2010, 01:25:36 PM
I wish my house would post a sign that said:
"We''ve listened to your feedback. A number of you have stated the lanes are too F-ing dry. So starting Jan 4th we will actually put oil on the lanes before league"
I'm not opposed to a difficult shot, but all I ask (and have asked) is enough to get the ball through the heads...
haha. AMF says, thanks for the input. We are going to raise lineage and put down less next week.. Sheesh!
S^2
--------------------
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Post by: Whos Left on December 24, 2010, 01:32:39 PM
Difference?
Post by: DON DRAPER on December 24, 2010, 01:35:22 PM
Post by: Brickguy221 on December 24, 2010, 03:25:36 PM
Practicing on lanes that haven't been oiled for a couple of days and are as dry as the paved parking lot does bother me because I never bowl on that condition anywhere I bowl, so trying to practice on that condition serves no purpose and is useless to me.
--------------------
"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."
Brick
Post by: BradleyHay on December 24, 2010, 05:19:36 PM
Say the league shot is given to you to practice on.. Lanes transition.. Do you adjust? Or just complain the shot is not there any more?
REAL bowlers adjust..
Should all bowling centers cater to those who don't want to adjust and WHINE
all the time 'cause THEIR shot isn't there?
This is why bowling is a joke..
Post by: JOE FALCO on December 24, 2010, 06:04:16 PM
quote:
Do you really think I would tell you a-holes anything factual about me? I have nothing but utter contempt for the majority of you.
That's from your profile (The Grudge).. once reading that I have a difficult time exchanging with you I'd prefer you NOT talk directly to me .. Thank you!
Merry Christmas!
Post by: mainzer on December 24, 2010, 09:35:39 PM
[/quote]
If the lanes were too dry then getting more oil to practise on is a good thing..
I get that you think practise shouldn't matter what your bowling on, but you realistically cant practise playing some shots if there is no oil.
Practising on oil is better than practising on no oil. I dont bother to practise anymore in my local center because I find no advantage of practising on try lanes.
Ryan
--------------------
Ryan Press - Seismic Staff Member
www.seismicbowling.com[/quote]
--------------------
"Complexity lay within the artistry of execution"
+++Henry Zou+++
Founding FatherBR Inquisition
MainzerPower
Post by: Nicanor on December 24, 2010, 11:26:52 PM
I don''t know or care how old you are. But after reading your profile and post, it doesn''t make a difference, I think you''re pretty immature.
Why practice on a shot you''ll never see unless its somewhat close? Why bowl on an extreme dry lane unless you know you''re going to see it in the 2nd shift or something similar?
I''ve bowled a 10 gamer that I had to use a pink Hammer and almost everyone else used a plastic ball. Until I''m ready to bowl on those conditions competitively again, I don''t need to practice on them. I believe bowlers with consistent averages and scores bowl enough to have developed great muscle memory. How can you develop great muscle memory if you''re practicing on an oil/lane condition that you will never bowl on competitively?
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Edited on 12/25/2010 1:28 AM
Post by: T C 300 on December 25, 2010, 04:10:50 AM
amf dont have porters now so the counters, pits, floors(concourse) parking lot, windows, YOU NAME IT...its F'n D I R T Y!! theres even giant lint balls in the gutters!! LOL
Post by: RyanRPS on December 25, 2010, 04:44:00 AM
Dont read that as wanting to just "practise striking on your usual league shot", it doesnt really matter what pattern is down, as long as there's enough oil to throw a proper shot on.
Ryan
--------------------
Ryan Press - Seismic Staff Member
www.seismicbowling.com
Post by: Neptune66 on December 25, 2010, 05:37:18 AM
That's a bad thing, in a way, cause it increases my ability to deal with variatons in the oil pattern at the house where I am already more proficient, when I would be better off praticing more at the other one.
However... to tie this all together, the "good" house (for me) is an independent and the tougher one (for me) is a Brunswick Zone. And one of teh reasons I dont bother to practice as much at the Brusnwick (aside from preferring an ego boost from better results) is that the condition there during non-league practice sessions is nothing like what I encounter there in my league.
Thus.... the announcment -----IF they stick to it, would be a good thing for me, as I just might be more inclined to go there and practice more. And, of course that that would also be a good thing for them.
Post by: DON DRAPER on December 25, 2010, 07:53:57 AM
Post by: JOE FALCO on December 25, 2010, 11:21:16 AM
--------------------
Get Motivated .. get Motiv
J O E - F A L C O
RIP Thong Princess/Sawbones
Post by: Nicanor on December 25, 2010, 01:13:32 PM
It seems like you know about a little of my past on Ballreviews. I have lodged some complaints about Lane 1 bowling balls. But what you didn't mention was that during the Lane 1/Brunswick era I was a total Lane 1 supporter. It was the change to Lane 1/Columbia that I didn't match up with and I called them out for their advertising.
Again you don't know much about my past because I played football for Navy, a member of the Navy boxing team in my early years and in my later years I was on the middle weight and heavy weight weightlifting team at the same time and captain of the Blue Navy bowling team. I know a little bit about the gym.
I've bowled a couple of PBA events and that was enough to tell me I didn't have the financial resores or the skill level to compete with the upper talent on the PBA tour.
So I ask now, what is serious about bowling. We can do our best, practice, but at what end. League bowling in just a past time for about 99 percent of us.
I've bowled with great senior bowlers in Detroit and other places around the world, but a smart person knows that most seniors aren't going to throw the ball 18 mph with a rev rate of even 300. Most seniors bowl three and out, especially if the lanes are dry. You get dry lanes and 60+ year old bowlers, for the most part, their bowling ball is going to roll/hook out or the ball will be uncontrollable. So I'm not saying the seniors should not practice or bowl on difficult shots, I'm just saying that a majority of the seniors need some head oil to help project the ball down the lane.
Life is serious, bowling is not.
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: Russell on December 25, 2010, 04:30:54 PM
READ THE POST PEOPLE...STOP RESPONDING WITHOUT READING IT...THE LANES HAVE PLENTY OF OIL TO PRACTICE...WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT FRIDAY NIGHT OPEN PLAY...JESUS CHRIST
--------------------
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: scotts33 on December 25, 2010, 04:47:43 PM
How do you practice different lines when a oiled THS lane condition is put down? Once the track is burnt out you need to move into 3rd-4th arrow and beyond. You learn how to project the ball with a softer hand take the hit out and still get the ball to finish with other layouts/surfaces/ball speeds. That is practice to me.
Read riggs blog on his tourney win at a lil Christmas Eve Day soiree`. 4th and 5th arrow at the end. How does one get good at rolling 4th/5th arrow practicing on an oiled house shot?
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/article_4dfff3e2-1053-11e0-8c91-001cc4c002e0.html--------------------
Scott
Post by: RyanRPS on December 25, 2010, 05:54:59 PM
Ryan
--------------------
Ryan Press - Seismic Staff Member
www.seismicbowling.com
Post by: Nicanor on December 25, 2010, 06:00:45 PM
We might have gotten off topic a little, but if we didn't, this wouldn't be Ballreviews
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: mainzer on December 25, 2010, 09:00:08 PM
btw I read the original post, and what is "Plenty" of oil in the middle varies for each bowler and for that matter, each house.
--------------------
"Complexity lay within the artistry of execution"
+++Henry Zou+++
Founding FatherBR Inquisition
MainzerPower
Post by: SleepOnIce on December 26, 2010, 08:25:21 PM
quote:
For weekends when the house if full of recreational bowlers I could see not prepping the lanes (except it might save the lanes a little bit) but there is nothing wrong with wanting to practice on your league shot. Not everyone wants to be a member of the PBA.
What is there to practice if the shot is always the same?
--------------------
BLARGH
Rob Stone Supporters of America!
Edited on 12/26/2010 10:25 PM
Post by: Nicanor on December 27, 2010, 08:34:34 AM
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: JOE FALCO on December 27, 2010, 08:45:12 AM
quote:
What is there to practice if the shot is always the same?
I take two balls to league .. sometimes in the three games I just never get comfortable. Maybe score acceptable .. but don't get comfortable. Perhaps before I go back to league again I'd like to bowl on the same condition (or at least close to it) and try a different ball(s). Therefore I can understand the request!
quote:
"We''ve listened to your feedback. A number of you have stated you would practice more if the lanes weren''t so dry. So starting Jan 4th we will be stripping and oiling the lanes twice daily, in the morning and in the evenings before league"
Post by: Russell on December 27, 2010, 10:04:44 AM
If you get a new set of irons in golf you go to the driving range to hit them. You don't need to stand on the tee of the par 3 12th hole and hit 100 balls with an 8 iron to make sure that it works in competition. You can use the relative factors at the range to make a determination.
We're spoiled...that's what all of these balls have done to us. Now when the center has to raise lineage another .50 next season to cover the double in lane oil and conditioner being used...the bowlers will b**ch about it.
--------------------
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: JOE FALCO on December 27, 2010, 10:22:55 AM
quote:
same condition (or at least close to it)
Agreed!
Post by: RyanRPS on December 27, 2010, 10:28:19 AM
quote:
If you get a new set of irons in golf you go to the driving range to hit them. You don't need to stand on the tee of the par 3 12th hole and hit 100 balls with an 8 iron to make sure that it works in competition. You can use the relative factors at the range to make a determination.
The golf analagy is not a good one... with your new set of irons you just want to see how they feel in your hand and how far you hit the ball... the terrain you are hitting the balls over makes no difference at all... with bowling balls the terrain you are throwing them on is EVERYTHING when testing a ball...
unless you are simply practising your mechanics or "challenging yourself" on whatever condition is down, you really need a decent amount of oil down or a decent shot..
Ryan
--------------------
Ryan Press - Seismic Staff Member
www.seismicbowling.com
Post by: Russell on December 27, 2010, 12:43:44 PM
quote:quote:
If you get a new set of irons in golf you go to the driving range to hit them. You don't need to stand on the tee of the par 3 12th hole and hit 100 balls with an 8 iron to make sure that it works in competition. You can use the relative factors at the range to make a determination.
The golf analagy is not a good one... with your new set of irons you just want to see how they feel in your hand and how far you hit the ball... the terrain you are hitting the balls over makes no difference at all... with bowling balls the terrain you are throwing them on is EVERYTHING when testing a ball...
unless you are simply practising your mechanics or "challenging yourself" on whatever condition is down, you really need a decent amount of oil down or a decent shot..
Ryan
--------------------
Ryan Press - Seismic Staff Member
www.seismicbowling.com
Actually it's exactly the same. You don't need league shot to see what your ball does. The "league shot" is nothing more than a puddle and dry. If you bowl on something that is drier...you'll still see what the ball does when it experiences friction. It will just be in a different part of the lane.
This is where bowling is completely losing the average bowler. Balls don't magically act different when they are thrown over 3rd arrow instead of 2nd. We think we need a special ball to play "inside"...or "the gutter". Reality is you pick something that transitions well depending on the volume loads and make good shots.
The ball of the month club won't understand this concept...as they are convinced there is a ball that they can stand on 21 with their feet and always play 12 to 8...never having to move.
--------------------
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: mainzer on December 27, 2010, 12:52:29 PM
quote:quote:quote:
If you get a new set of irons in golf you go to the driving range to hit them. You don't need to stand on the tee of the par 3 12th hole and hit 100 balls with an 8 iron to make sure that it works in competition. You can use the relative factors at the range to make a determination.
The golf analagy is not a good one... with your new set of irons you just want to see how they feel in your hand and how far you hit the ball... the terrain you are hitting the balls over makes no difference at all... with bowling balls the terrain you are throwing them on is EVERYTHING when testing a ball...
unless you are simply practising your mechanics or "challenging yourself" on whatever condition is down, you really need a decent amount of oil down or a decent shot..
Ryan
--------------------
Ryan Press - Seismic Staff Member
www.seismicbowling.com
Actually it's exactly the same. You don't need league shot to see what your ball does. The "league shot" is nothing more than a puddle and dry. If you bowl on something that is drier...you'll still see what the ball does when it experiences friction. It will just be in a different part of the lane.
This is where bowling is completely losing the average bowler. Balls don't magically act different when they are thrown over 3rd arrow instead of 2nd. We think we need a special ball to play "inside"...or "the gutter". Reality is you pick something that transitions well depending on the volume loads and make good shots.
The ball of the month club won't understand this concept...as they are convinced there is a ball that they can stand on 21 with their feet and always play 12 to 8...never having to move.
--------------------
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
But the THS in some ways is the "control" of the experiment. PBA Patterns vary to great degrees. A burned out THS also can be drastically different than a fresh THS Due to carry down, how many games were bowled, what type of bowlers, What type of gear, etc.
Bowling on a fresh THS Lets me know what I can expect to see on other patterns/houses/lane surfaces. Stuff like length, flip from different break points, compatibility to different hand positions, overall hook.
Your last paragraph sounds somewhat elitist, their are more ways of looking at the issue than just your own. I respect your opinion but, Not everyone will think your way is right or understand it, just like you may not understand other peoples ways.
--------------------
"Complexity lay within the artistry of execution"
+++Henry Zou+++
Founding FatherBR Inquisition
MainzerPower
Post by: RyanRPS on December 27, 2010, 12:53:18 PM
For an example of where I am coming from, our league pattern is about 3.5:1 ratio and about 38ft long.. the "public" pattern put down on days where there is no league is 20ft long and pretty lightly oiled. It is completely pointless trying to practise on a 20ft pattern as you will learn nothing about your shot past the release on a pattern so short and dry.
Ryan
--------------------
Ryan Press - Seismic Staff Member
www.seismicbowling.com
Post by: Russell on December 27, 2010, 01:01:10 PM
quote:
But the THS in some ways is the "control" of the experiment. PBA Patterns vary to great degrees. A burned out THS also can be drastically different than a fresh THS Due to carry down, how many games were bowled, what type of bowlers, What type of gear, etc.
Bowling on a fresh THS Lets me know what I can expect to see on other patterns/houses/lane surfaces. Stuff like length, flip from different break points, compatibility to different hand positions, overall hook.
Your last paragraph sounds somewhat elitist, their are more ways of looking at the issue than just your own. I respect your opinion but, Not everyone will think your way is right or understand it, just like you may not understand other peoples ways.
I understand your point if we're talking about the charred remains of Friday night open play, but in the case made here the center uses great oil and puts down plenty of volume in the middle. The lanes do not get that dry even on 2 shifts of league.
I don't see where it's "elitist" that I think I'm right. As a former member of the club that thought lanes sucked whenever my ball went through the nose when I was playing 10 at the arrows...I just know the mentality. I used to think that any lane that wouldn't let me pipe it down the track was horrible. I learned that wasn't how the game is, but know there are people that still think that way, and unfortunately many of them post on here.
It doesn't make me an "elitist"...I'm just speaking from experience. I don't think I'm better than anyone...I just want the sport of bowling to prosper and grow.
--------------------
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: Russell on December 27, 2010, 01:05:23 PM
quote:
Russell, i'm talking about oil in general... i dont mean you need to play on a league shot, or the same shot as your league shot, just that if the lanes are too dry its pretty pointless practising.
Again...please read where I explained that this house the lanes NEVER get "charred". I've bowled here for years and the shot is ALWAYS playable for anyone willing to move their feet left a few boards.
quote:
For an example of where I am coming from, our league pattern is about 3.5:1 ratio and about 38ft long.. the "public" pattern put down on days where there is no league is 20ft long and pretty lightly oiled. It is completely pointless trying to practise on a 20ft pattern as you will learn nothing about your shot past the release on a pattern so short and dry.
I'd love to know a house that puts out a 20 foot pattern....at any time. I'd also love to know where a house that puts down a 3.5:1 pattern is. I severely doubt ANY house shot anymore is anything less than 8:1. Either the house shot has about 16 units in the middle, which is almost nothing...or you have a PBA pattern like the Viper out there for league.
Just not buying it...
--------------------
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: TWOHAND834 on December 27, 2010, 01:41:00 PM
On the flip side, the casual league bowler have lower rev rates and probably wont be playing inside 4th arrow anytime in this lifetime. They bowl on a particular shot and want to practice more on it so they can get better on that shot.
IMO....in order to really get some good feedback, you need some oil on the lanes. Drier shots dont bother me as much but if you are out spending $4.00+ a game to practice and your ball hooks as soon as it hits the lanes, there isnt much of a chance to get some good feedback on the changes you may be trying to make. If the heads are completely fried, doesnt matter what hand change you make, the ball is going to check up quickly. The casual league bowler isnt going to be in front of the ball return and lofting the first 5 feet of the gutter.
So my assessment is this: for those that want to tune their games for tougher conditions, you probably already know which center(s) dont cater to the serious bowler and only oil their lanes once in awhile. For those that dont care to make it to the next level but still want to improve one or more parts of their game, nothing wrong with placing a call into the center to see when the last time they put oil down. There is no reason why the sport cant cater to both types of bowlers.
--------------------
If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!
Post by: RyanRPS on December 27, 2010, 02:39:36 PM
quote:
I'd love to know a house that puts out a 20 foot pattern....at any time. I'd also love to know where a house that puts down a 3.5:1 pattern is. I severely doubt ANY house shot anymore is anything less than 8:1. Either the house shot has about 16 units in the middle, which is almost nothing...or you have a PBA pattern like the Viper out there for league.
Just not buying it...
Russell, Im in Ireland, we do things a little different over here lol
the 20ft "public" pattern is just that, oil put down to protect the lanes for public bowlers using house balls... this is the way the lanes are oiled 6 days a week.
And TBH im not 100% sure on the current league pattern ratios.. they are usually 4:1 max here... last printout I say was 10 units on the outside and 32 at the wettest part in the centre...
Ryan
--------------------
Ryan Press - Seismic Staff Member
www.seismicbowling.com
Post by: trash heap on December 27, 2010, 03:41:05 PM
Running a bowling center has to be tough. You probably here more complaining in this business than any other.
Post by: Russell on December 27, 2010, 03:43:53 PM
quote:quote:
I'd love to know a house that puts out a 20 foot pattern....at any time. I'd also love to know where a house that puts down a 3.5:1 pattern is. I severely doubt ANY house shot anymore is anything less than 8:1. Either the house shot has about 16 units in the middle, which is almost nothing...or you have a PBA pattern like the Viper out there for league.
Just not buying it...
Russell, Im in Ireland, we do things a little different over here lol
the 20ft "public" pattern is just that, oil put down to protect the lanes for public bowlers using house balls... this is the way the lanes are oiled 6 days a week.
And TBH im not 100% sure on the current league pattern ratios.. they are usually 4:1 max here... last printout I say was 10 units on the outside and 32 at the wettest part in the centre...
Ryan
--------------------
Ryan Press - Seismic Staff Member
www.seismicbowling.com
Okay I retract my statements...I can understand them being different in areas outside of the US. Generally bowlers are so spoiled here they won't bowl on anything that doesn't walk the ball to the pocket.
--------------------
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: Russell on December 27, 2010, 03:46:05 PM
quote:
Its all about running a business. If there are regular league bowlers wanting to play with their new toys, sure oil the lanes. It's about doing business. If those bowlers stop showing up....stop putting the oil down. Not worth time.
Running a bowling center has to be tough. You probably here more complaining in this business than any other.
I agree with you 100%...but the problem is the cost now. Lineage is getting more and more expensive, and centers are catering less and less to league play because of the cost. Now having to oil the lanes another 300 times a year is going to cost the center many THOUSANDS of dollars in man hours, lane conditioner, and cleaner.
We're just slowly putting the nails in the coffin of our sport....it's not Brunswick's fault...it's our fault.
--------------------
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: mainzer on December 27, 2010, 09:12:51 PM
quote:
I just want the sport of bowling to prosper and grow.
I hear that and agree with you.
--------------------
"Complexity lay within the artistry of execution"
+++Henry Zou+++
Founding FatherBR Inquisition
MainzerPower
Post by: mainzer on December 27, 2010, 09:12:53 PM
quote:
I just want the sport of bowling to prosper and grow.
I hear that and agree with you.
--------------------
"Complexity lay within the artistry of execution"
+++Henry Zou+++
Founding FatherBR Inquisition
MainzerPower