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Author Topic: Small moves  (Read 16797 times)

Mongo

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Small moves
« on: March 17, 2014, 08:48:49 PM »
I know I'm possibly opening a big LH/RH whine-a-thon, but I'm curious.

Do any of you make small (old school) moves to help get the corners out? 

2 out of the last 3 sets I've had small transitions where I'm moving 1 and 1 or even just 1 with my feet to help get the corners out.  I've gotten in trouble with ball changes a couple of times when just a small move did the trick.

Anybody else still flashing back to the 80's like I am? 
Where are all my 2001-2006 posts?

 

bradl

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Re: Small moves
« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2014, 11:39:21 PM »
If you mention norm duke it would do nothing to validate it.  If norm backed up 6" on the approach he would have to start on the tile, so I'm positive it's not an adjustment he uses. 

When I was bowling I didn't pay any attention to what others were doing.  But I've work with and studied under some of the greatest coaches and discussed the game with some of the best bowlers ever.

I did. And it was prominent when I saw it. No you can't say that it was "this century", but during the 1995 or 1996 Omaha Lancer Open (LPBT/PWBA), Curtis Odom stopped by to check on how his wife and the rest of the ladies were bowling. And he was calling out which pin they would stick the moment the ball hit the lane; he was right each time. 10 pin. 7 pin. 4-9. 9 pin. While talking-to someone behind me, He saw his wife stick two 10 pins. He told them to watch how she'll move back a bit on her next ball on that lane to carry the 10 pin. Sure enough that I am alive, she stood back roughly 4 - 5" on the approach, threw her same line, and carried the 10.

It was something my coach taught me when I bowled juniors, was validated when my coach in collegiates said the same thing (Bill Straub), and was validated a 3rd time when a PBA member and PWBA member did the same thing.

I'm not going to argue against that, what I was taught, and what I saw with my own eyes; nor am I going to argue against what actually works for me.

EDIT: There is this.

http://www.slideshare.net/bestbowlingtips/bowling-tips-how-to-carry-the-10-pin

codifies everything I've said.

BL.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2014, 11:51:07 PM by bradl »

itsallaboutme

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Re: Small moves
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2014, 06:18:37 AM »
Keep thinking it makes a difference. 

I don't consider slideshare a credible authority on the game of bowling, but it's on the internet, so it must be true.

spmcgivern

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Re: Small moves
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2014, 08:55:39 AM »
People who use the up and back changes in their approach were taught by people who did that.  The teachers were probably older and that is what they did back in the day.

Newer teachers who have developed their curriculum based on current philosophies and data do not teach the up and back change.  Older teachers who don't teach the up and back change adapted to the current game.

Nothing says you can't make the move back 6" to carry the ten pin.  In fact, you could probably figure out exactly how far right you would have to move to get the same result.  This is the only thing current teachers are saying.  If moving 6" back is the same as moving 1/2 board right, then the new era will make the 1/2 board right move, not the 6" back. 

Gizmo823

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Re: Small moves
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2014, 09:31:22 AM »
If someone has repeated trouble with the 10 or any other pin, they're playing the lanes wrong.  I can't remember the last time I bowled a set and left the same thing repeatedly.  Last night the only leave I repeated was the 7 pin on back to back shots.  Tuesday I think I had maybe 3 10s all night, if that.  Like Rico said, sometimes all you need to do is believe something is working, and if you throw the ball more confidently, the pins know that.  Sometimes that's ALL I've done when I've had a few rough frames, I tell myself to stop worrying about the carry and commit to the shot more, and that fixes it every time.  But that's what I said earlier, it's a placebo, and it may work just fine, just not in the way you think it does.  Sometimes it's about tricking your brain into being more comfortable, and that translates to the pins. 

I was watching Cutthroat Kitchen a couple nights ago.  They got down to the dessert round, and this guy got sabotaged and had his sugar replaced with Pop Rocks.  He opened a package he thought was blueberry and dumped it into his sauce.  Turns out he was looking at the back of the package, and the real flavor of the Pop Rocks was bubble gum.  He ended up calling it blueberry anyway, because he explained that if you tell somebody something is a certain flavor and they're expecting that flavor, sometimes you can trick the brain into perceiving it that way.  This world famous food expert was doing the judging, and when he was told it was a blueberry sauce, he ate it and never noticed.

So once again, if moving back on the approach works, great!  I never said it didn't.  I just said it's not working for the reasons you think it is.  If you're playing 20-8, and you move back 6 inches, you know what the total launch angle change is in degrees?  Rounded up, it's 0.02 degrees, or in other words, 2 hundredths of a degree.  That translates to you laying it down 1/3 of a MILLIMETER further right if you back up 6 inches on the approach, meaning if you have laser accuracy, you'll still be overlapping your original track given an average footprint width. 

And in doing research about footprint width, I found this:  The negatively charged electron clouds on the outside of the bowling ball's molecules are repelled by the negative electron clouds of the floor's molecules - the ball levitates slightly.

I also found this if you want to have some fun:  http://www.real-world-physics-problems.com/physics-of-bowling.html
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

Gizmo823

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Re: Small moves
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2014, 09:41:18 AM »
That was all calculated based on 20-8 at 38', btw . .
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

northface28

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Re: Small moves
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2014, 01:52:58 PM »
If I can't strike with my big toe on the big dot, it's everyone and everything's fault but mine.

Yep, (screams) "These lanes are bone dry, im looking at 3rd Arrow".
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northface28

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Re: Small moves
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2014, 01:55:38 PM »
I have been around a lot of good/great bowlers in my life, and have never met one that made up/back adjustments on the approach unless it was to get around the ball return. 

Could anyone provide an example of someone who is above league bowler status that  actually use these adjustments this century?

None,its ancient 1980s bowling folklore, much like bowling with a towel hanging from your back pocket, but hey, whatever works, right?
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itsallaboutme

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Re: Small moves
« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2014, 02:01:36 PM »
I fully expect the guys making the 6" forward/back adjustment to have their towel hanging out of their pocket. 

bradl

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Re: Small moves
« Reply #39 on: March 21, 2014, 02:52:15 PM »
I fully expect the guys making the 6" forward/back adjustment to have their towel hanging out of their pocket.

Too bad I carry a 215 average and have multiple 300s to my name. So please take your expectations and keep them to yourself. Feel free to hit the USBC site and check my bona fides.

Or better yet, we could take it to the lanes.

Besides.. you missed the fact that the info I referenced was from a book.

So you keep believing that I'm wrong, while I carry the corner when I have a problem.

BL.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 02:54:26 PM by bradl »

JustRico

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Re: Small moves
« Reply #40 on: March 21, 2014, 02:55:34 PM »
A. too many bowlers wanna play blackjack...stand on 20 hit 10...B. agreed if you are repeatedly leaving a certain pin your angle is wrong and it's not how close you are to the foul line C. when I have someone move 6" it's to adjust their footwork in regards to where the ball is in their approach or to adjust their ball speed up or down but generally not to correct pin carry but how or where the ball slows down nothing else
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JustRico

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Re: Small moves
« Reply #41 on: March 21, 2014, 02:58:08 PM »
Brad nothing personal but there are a lot of good bowlers on the Internet and you can NOT base individual situations as gospel...each individual situation is that nothing else...so get off your glorified high horse...
I haven't bowled in over 10 yrs but my 25 yrs as a competitor on every level was pretty good and much of what or how I did things I do NOT teach and I've been a pretty decent instructor for more than a few years...closer to 20-25 yrs
You have to understand what is relevant and what isn't in today's game...there are many other vital components of the swing that is important than how close you start to the foul line...plain & simple
« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 03:11:56 PM by JustRico »
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Gizmo823

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Re: Small moves
« Reply #42 on: March 21, 2014, 03:14:22 PM »
I average 215 too . . lefthanded.  Nobody ever said you were wrong, you just aren't right for the reasons you think you're right for.  Look a bit higher and see my math on it.  If that's what it takes to get your head comfortable, that's all fine and good, but there are easier ways to achieve the same result.  I wouldn't teach that to anyone, but I'm not going to tell you to stop doing it if it works for you. 

I fully expect the guys making the 6" forward/back adjustment to have their towel hanging out of their pocket.

Too bad I carry a 215 average and have multiple 300s to my name. So please take your expectations and keep them to yourself. Feel free to hit the USBC site and check my bona fides.

Or better yet, we could take it to the lanes.

Besides.. you missed the fact that the info I referenced was from a book.

So you keep believing that I'm wrong, while I carry the corner when I have a problem.

BL.
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

Strapper_Squared

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Re: Small moves
« Reply #43 on: March 21, 2014, 03:15:34 PM »
Ric's more fun when he's free to speak his mind.
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Gizmo823

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Re: Small moves
« Reply #44 on: March 21, 2014, 03:19:26 PM »
Yeap . . and I agree with his statement on edit.  There are things I do too that I'd never teach to anybody. 

Ric's more fun when he's free to speak his mind.
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

itsallaboutme

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Re: Small moves
« Reply #45 on: March 21, 2014, 03:25:17 PM »
215 and it looks like we hit a nerve about the towel.  Just what I would expect. 

For the last 7 years the only time I've put bowling shoes on is to test balls.  But, I guarantee that you and your 215 average don't want any part of taking me to the lanes.