Author Topic: Pro's style - Old school vs. new school (Read 1116 times)

qstick777 · « **on:** May 27, 2005, 04:20:44 AM »

I've been watching some of the older PBA shows on ESPN classic, and some of the vids that have been posted here. I was sort of shocked to see how the players of today have changed styles from then to now, especially since the balls have gotten stronger.

Here are some of the things I've noticed:

Norm Duke used to really swing the ball. I'm so used to seeing him play down and in, nice stroker style. I watched an older show and he was really cranking it!

WRW Jr seems to crank the ball more now than in the past. He used to play straight up 10 - seems now he opens the lanes up more. He also seems to put a lot more effort into his release - much higher back swing, and a more noticeable effort with his shoulder.

Brian Voss - seems to be the most consistent. Style always seems to be pure stroker. I think I might have seen him swing it on one tournament, but mostly just a smooth stroker style.

I know these guys are pro and have the ability to play either style depending on the conditions. Walther Ray is really surprising - I keep reading about how the balls today are more aggressive and "hook-in-box" and it seems that Walther Ray really plays more of a power game now than before. I know people with say that WRW plays straighter than most, but every time I've seen him, he seems to be playing further left and over center arrow. In the past he truly did play straight up 2 arrow.

Anybody else notice that?

Oskuposer · « **Reply #1 on:** May 27, 2005, 12:45:33 PM »

If you watch the show that Tommy Jones won first this year in the US. The denver open they show the similarites in Duke and Jones in the dexter approach.
--------------------
Good bowlers use the big B and when they do they create a Storm
Kiall Hill
A.K.A.
The Chipmunk
"Its a trip 4 fest"
"God Dam it"
"Yea but the Brunswick ones get all ten down"

Oskuposer · « **Reply #2 on:** May 27, 2005, 01:14:49 PM »

Well he proved it with his 40 titles but Earl showed it that being a lefty is the onl thing that counts with 43 titles the 2 being ABC nationals titled b4 the PBA counted them.
--------------------
Good bowlers use the big B and when they do they create a Storm
Kiall Hill
A.K.A.
The Chipmunk
"Its a trip 4 fest"
"God Dam it"
"Yea but the Brunswick ones get all ten down"

Hex017 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 27, 2005, 01:24:08 PM »

quote:
Well he proved it with his 40 titles but Earl showed it that being a lefty is the onl thing that counts with 43 titles the 2 being ABC nationals titled b4 the PBA counted them.
--------------------
Good bowlers use the big B and when they do they create a Storm
Kiall Hill
A.K.A.
The Chipmunk
"Its a trip 4 fest"
"God Dam it"
"Yea but the Brunswick ones get all ten down"

Being lefty? Come on now, you better give him more credit than that. I don't care WHAT hand you are, to win that many titles in the amount of events he did it in is amazing. Notice something though, WRW and Earl, both the two greatest ever title and success wise, both straighter players with forward roll. Earl rolled the ball very up the back with such a soft hand, simply a thing of beauty. Not to mention they are uber accurate.

As for the changes over time, I think they changed because well, the game changed. Maybe WRW thought he needed extra carry to keep up with the young guns so he's changed to a stronger release. Maybe Norm thought taking hand out of it would help consistancy wise. I really can't say. In my opinion, we are all just products of the ever-changing game.
--------------------
-If you're not willing to change, you're not willing to improve.

-Life is like a coin, you can spend it any way you want, but you can only spend it once.

-I will forever love this great game, I love the people and the competition, I only wish the best would get the recognition of an ATHLETE that they deserve.

Oskuposer · « **Reply #4 on:** May 27, 2005, 01:30:21 PM »

Your right Earl won all those titles in less time than WRW did. I 4got wut show they did but in one of them they showed the stats between WRW and Earl and WRW had 2 times the tourney Earl did that really shows the talent
--------------------
Good bowlers use the big B and when they do they create a Storm
Kiall Hill
A.K.A.
The Chipmunk
"Its a trip 4 fest"
"God Dam it"
"Yea but the Brunswick ones get all ten down"

qstick777 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 27, 2005, 02:07:57 PM »

quote:
Interesting observations, especially on WRW. I believe what we generally call power ( generating revs ) is really a wrist technique. If you measure power in terms of the actual amount of force applied to the ball from the fingers, you would indeed find that WRW has one of the most powerful releases on tour. His combination of speed and lift from hitting up on the ball creates tremendous end over end power which is different than a high spin rate. Many people contend that the modern hard hitting balls made him great, but I think his release would be equally as effective with urethane or even plastic. He might just have to cut his ball speed a little with the weaker equipment.

I guess that could be true. What I was referring to was his release and armswing. Maybe it is to just generate more speed (maybe to combat the stronger balls), but I swear I can see in his shoulder a much more powerful throw. Hard to explain, but it looks like he puts in some extra "umph" into his throw. Similar to what you see when they throw straight and hard at spares. He seems to plant his foot and power through the release versus a smooth slide and release when he was throwing urethanes (back in the late 80's).

I just found it strange - I would think as you get older your body wouldn't be able to take the wear and tear of really cranking it and you might be forced to adapt to more of a stroker style.

*** Okay, I just watched the 93 match with WRW and Duke, and WRW really seems to be cranking it, so maybe I was imagining it. I'll have to check at home this week and see what I have DVR'ed. I want to say it was a match from '87, but it was definately a different armswing and approach.

DavidKSNK · « **Reply #6 on:** May 27, 2005, 04:10:31 PM »

Walter Ray would not have even close to 40 titles if it was not for resin.

Resin gave him the carry that urethane did not.

Those 4 pins and weak 10's he left with urethane started to carry with resin.
--------------------
"As you think, so shall you become" -Bruce Lee

Hex017 · « **Reply #7 on:** May 27, 2005, 04:15:29 PM »

quote:
Walter Ray would not have even close to 40 titles if it was not for resin.

Resin gave him the carry that urethane did not.

Those 4 pins and weak 10's he left with urethane started to carry with resin.
--------------------
"As you think, so shall you become" -Bruce Lee

He may have 40 titles because of Resin but, don't even think about ragging on him that he would have "never" won without resin. Bbridges uploaded a tournament where WRW won using a plastic ball vs. Joe Firpo using a reactive. Explain that.(And No Firpo did not throw a bad game either.)
--------------------
-If you're not willing to change, you're not willing to improve.

-Life is like a coin, you can spend it any way you want, but you can only spend it once.

-I will forever love this great game, I love the people and the competition, I only wish the best would get the recognition of an ATHLETE that they deserve.

charlest · « **Reply #8 on:** May 27, 2005, 06:22:42 PM »

I think you guys forget that the show is, at best, 3 or 4 games and CANNOT represent how any of the bowlers threw the ball during the 30-60 games that these older tournaments took. One bowler could be pointing it from the corner on the sow, but might have bene swinging from inside the 4th arrow or deeper for 40 of the 50 games.

Duke was a stroker who learned to hook it.
Voss at one time could hook the ENTIRE lane.(See the show where he threw the Columbia Outrage; I never saw any ball hook more up to that point in time.)
I think it was 1993 when WRW was challenging Roth's record of 8 PBA wins in a single season. Not sure where WRW finished, maybe 6 or 7 wins.

FYI, DavidKSNK, but WRW did win Bowler of the year sometime in the 1980s, well before any resin balls were available, and he was winnign $100K per yer also before 1993. That is impressive!

While I remain an "Earl Anthony was the greatest bowler" fan, remember that in 1980s, 1990s and 2000, there are tons more great bowlers on tour, eligible for the Tour. So, it's much harder to be as great as he is, win as often as he has,place 2nd as many times as he has. Oh,and HERE'S ANOTHER FOR YOU. No oother bowler has been on the losing end of as many TV 300s as WRW. I think he has lost to 3 300s and at least 1 299 in the TV show. And that statistics was from a recent ESPN CLassic I just saw. No idea what year the show was made.

I think any impartial person who looks closely at the record book, IN DETAIL, cannot doubt the bowling greatness of WRW. As far as I can see, he MUST be placed in the top 5 of ALL TIME.

I wouldn't dare order them, but my top 4 are

Earl Anthony
Dick Weber
Don Carter
Walter Ray Williams

(To be honest, any 5th I can think of, does not come close to those 4.)
--------------------
Just like hand grenades and horse shoes, in bowling you only have to get close ...

CharlesT

Author Topic: Pro's style - Old school vs. new school (Read 1116 times)

qstick777

Pro's style - Old school vs. new school

Oskuposer

Re: Pro's style - Old school vs. new school

Oskuposer

Re: Pro's style - Old school vs. new school

Hex017

Re: Pro's style - Old school vs. new school

Oskuposer

Re: Pro's style - Old school vs. new school

qstick777

Re: Pro's style - Old school vs. new school

DavidKSNK

Re: Pro's style - Old school vs. new school

Hex017

Re: Pro's style - Old school vs. new school

charlest

Re: Pro's style - Old school vs. new school