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General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Jeffrevs on July 07, 2003, 06:15:40 PM

Title: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: Jeffrevs on July 07, 2003, 06:15:40 PM
Hi All,

Mojo and I (hopefully more of us) are going to a sport shot tournament at the end of the month, July 27th.  Now, I know this board has discussed this topic before, BUT,...it was regarding ME !

Therefore,.....tips please !  Any and all! THANKS!
--------------------
JEFF
Just chimin' in !

Edited on 7/8/2003 9:19 AM

Edited on 7/9/2003 2:58 PM
Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: Jeffrevs on July 08, 2003, 10:00:24 AM
interesting......25% of the people on this site right now have looked at this post.....none have bowled on a sport shot ?  Not complaining, just more of a curiosity....hmmmmmmmm
--------------------
JEFF
Just chimin' in !

Edited on 7/8/2003 10:04 AM
Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: Magic Carpet on July 08, 2003, 10:02:44 AM
#1 see if you can find a center that will put down a sport shot for you to practice on.
#2 Read finger dancing
#3 Read the 3 part series on using the breakpoint as PART of a targeting system.
#4 It's better to have equipment that burns up too soon that equipment that Won't stop. Equipment that won't stop can be very hard to deal with.
#5 Work on having a Consistent release and ball speed. Being inconsistent here will make a big difference that don't even show up on a house shot.
#6 Don't forget the twig. If you are good on the twig it will often play...plus it is often a SAFE place to go if you are lost for a while.
If it is a long format tournament and the twig is not playable at first check it out on a fill ball after about 5 games. Sometimes the shot comes in.
#7 Use fill balls when you can. If you are struggling use fill balls to try out new lines and different equipment.
#8 Tip #3 if by far the best of all the tips.
Good Luck!!!
Ron Clifton
Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: Jeffrevs on July 08, 2003, 10:27:47 AM
Come on Ron....is that all you got ?!?!?! !!

I've read most of the tips!

I love the twig ( right up 3-4 )

THANKS A TON!
--------------------
JEFF
Just chimin' in !
Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: michelle on July 08, 2003, 10:37:58 AM

Jeff...one of the biggest things to keep in mind is that sport-compliant does not mean unplayable or that big scores are not possible.  Some of them may play very slick and some may play very dry, but some just play from a number of lines.

Do you have access to the pattern that will be in play?  That may help with equipment set-up.  Also, what are the tourney rules on surface modifications- can you scuff until the first ball that counts or are you restricted to scuffing only before the first practice shot?  If you can scuff during practice, remember that scotchbrite can be your best friend on sport patterns

Don't expect to have area, but be pleasantly surprised if you do...at the Open we were at 2.25:1, which is just outside compliance with sport mandates.  I bet you remember how far left I was standing in games 23 and 24 and where I was trying to get the ball...did you ever believe you would see that on a nearly sport pattern?

Oh..don't think too much...

Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: mumzie on July 08, 2003, 11:48:47 AM
Concentrate on making good, consistent shots.
consistent release, targeting, and speed.
If you have 2 boards, you're fortunate - at least given the sport compliant shots I've encountered.
But what I've found is that speed is absolutely critical, as is a firm release, and accuracy. Spares usually separate the winners from the losers.

--------------------
Bowling? Of course it's a sport.
Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: HamPster on July 08, 2003, 12:00:06 PM
I think breakpoint is probably the most important thing on a sport shot.  It doesn't matter what you do, as long as you get to the breakpoint with your speed and revs correct, you'll hit the pocket.  It's just that with a sport shot, that's kinda hard to do every time.  Because you have to be accurate to a board or two at the release, you might have 3 boards at the arrows, but the breakpoint is pretty narrow most of the time, and especially to get carry.  You might have 3 or 4 boards at the breakpoint that will hit the pocket, but right a board could leave you a 10, left a board could leave you a 4 or a 4-9.  The most consistency can be found inside, usually.  It's so wet/dry outside that the slightest miss in angle at the release will either take it brooklyn or slide it right past everything off your hand.  Playing inside allows the angle to help push the ball through the dry inside, and the usually dry backends help bring it back.  Forward roll is a good thing, if you can utilize it.  I'd suggest getting a weak ball, and staying within 10 boards from release to breakpoint.  Lay it down at maybe 23, cross 4th arrow, out to 13, and you will hit the pocket everytime.  Or, if you can control forward roll better, all it takes is moving deep and feeding it right.  The dry inside will feed the ball to the pocket with forward roll.  I played that way at a tournament in Warrensburg, MO.  It was really dry inside, so I took a weaker ball, came full up the back of it, my angle of rotation was about 15 degrees or less.  Left a few 10's, but I got to the pocket nearly every single time, and that gave me the lead through qualifying and all the way through match play, I only ended up getting second by 15 pins (the guy that bowled me bowled an awesome game against me in the positioning round, he earned it).  Too much side roll makes it squirty, either you'll slide right through your breakpoint, or it'll shoot left too early.  Speed is also very important, that needs to stay constant.  That's also another reason to play inside, if you can't get the speed you need with the revs you need, back off on the revs (lol, JeffREVS) a little, because most of the time there will be enough dry to help the ball out.  On oilier patterns though, you might be able to play your comfort zone, but speed control and breakpoint will still be the two most important things.
--------------------
Forget Kung Fu, I know Ron Bahr!!!

The only difference between youth and adult leagues are that the big boys are allowed to whine.  They're more entertaining anyway.
Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: Jeffrevs on July 08, 2003, 12:00:34 PM
so needless to say, plastic is a must!
--------------------
JEFF
Just chimin' in !
Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: Steven on July 08, 2003, 12:20:50 PM
Jeff: A lot of good responses here, but I'll re-list a few of Ron's points that are absolute musts:

 
quote:
#3 Read the 3 part series on using the breakpoint as PART of a targeting system.

#4 It's better to have equipment that burns up too soon that equipment that Won't stop. Equipment that won't stop can be very hard to deal with.

#5 Work on having a Consistent release and ball speed. Being inconsistent here will make a big difference that don't even show up on a house shot.
 


In ranking these three points, #5 has to be the most important of all. Most bowlers have no clue as to the importance of consistency until they play sport/PBA patterns.

And to your last post on the importance of plastic for spares, you're right on. There are a small percent who can get away with using their primary ball for spares, but most benefit from plastic on tricky patterns. Strikes are harder to come by, so converting all makable spares is a must, and plastic can be a real asset.  

Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: CPA on July 08, 2003, 12:41:04 PM
A couple of observations from the sport shot league I bowled in last fall:

1.  Making spares is critical.  I used a plastic ball and was glad I did.
2.  It is unlikely you will have a long string of strikes.  Keep the ball in the pocket and hope for a double or two.  It is not impossible to shoot a high score, but it is rare.
3.  I did not have success trying to swing the ball.  I had the most success with a more direct line and not crossing a lot of boards.
4.  Be patient because the other bowlers are also experiencing what you are experiencing.
Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: omegabowler on July 08, 2003, 02:31:35 PM
MC's tip # 4 is not to be ignored. I recently bowled on a 39 ft flat oil sport shot with stripped backends.

you have to have a ball that can come off the oil and not jump on the dry. I was using a Blade particle. playing 35 over 20 out to 10. if I hit 8 wash out. if I hit 15 nose. My reactive's just snapped like hell.

Then on a sport league that had slick backends you need a ball that had a lot of backend to carry.

Good Luck guys


--------------------
"deserves got nothing to do with it."
-- William Munny

Edited on 7/8/2003 2:35 PM
Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: charlest on July 08, 2003, 04:09:55 PM
Bowling on a sport league this Summer. Ready to kill something - shot changes every week. Everyone is down 30 to 60 pins. Yes, SIXTY pins in average. Beginning to look like a crap shoot.

Suggestions:
- plastic spare ball thrown dead straight is essential, NOT AN OPTION.
- all balls should have minimum backend. Always bring an oiler and your best dry lanes ball. Try to cover most other bases: medium-light, medium and medium-heavy BUT all balls should be your least hooking balls FOR THAT CONDITION. Most sport shots have had definite out-of-bounds and most have been, for us, reverse blocks.
- Practice rev and speed consistency. These are 2 other essentials.

Of course, if we all were doign this, we'd be winning $250K per year ont he PBA tour AND Las Vegas ...

One last suggestion: the Brooklyn hit may be a legitimate alternative! (I said, "may be"!!)

Good Luck!
--------------------
"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."
Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: channel surfer on July 08, 2003, 04:18:39 PM
Some people think that they should throw there ball slow on a sport shot.. No, not a good idea. Dont throw your ball to slow or it will have no energy by time it hits the pins. Some people try to throw out and in on a sport shot, thats another no-no. Go down and in, the main idea is to find a line where the ball dosnt have many boards to cover.

Another thing is the balls youll be using. A high hooking ball will defiantly help, if you dont have any high hooking balls, maybe just dull your ball(s). That might help. And there will prob be a lot of carry down after first game, so be ready for that.
--------------------
My Bowling Clinic Site: http://channelsurfers.vze.com

ASK A PRO:http://channelsurfers.vze.com/atp.shtml

Money is no object to me because I dont have any...
Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: SrKegler on July 08, 2003, 04:26:10 PM
And, when all else fails, just come down to the pair I'm on and watch a while.
--------------------
~~~SrK - Have balls, will travel
Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: Urethane Game on July 08, 2003, 10:49:29 PM
Chicago Bowler, Beverly Lanes and Hawthorn both have sport leagues.  Our summer league resumes a week from this Thursday at Beverly.  Not like the China you probably bowl on...  Go to www.sportbowling.com for more info....

Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: Gallandro on July 08, 2003, 10:58:22 PM

  To all:

 Best tips for bowling on a sport shot.

 1)  Don't be afraid to try new lines into the pocket.

 2)  Brooklyn is a great alternative but tough to hit consistently.

 3)  Have to make your spares. I suggest, as others have, that plastic
     is the best alternative. Just remember that plastic won't move much and
     shoot straight at your target.

 4)  Keep an eye on people who throw a similar shot and see what works for them.

 5)  Most important. Leave your ego in your car, it will only make things
     tougher than they have to be.

 To ChicagoBowler. Definition of a sport shot is basically this: It's a 2-1 ratio of oil. If you have eighty units in the middle, then you must have forty units on the outside.

  Hope this helps you out. One other detail for you, there should be a 10% drop in your average from a house shot to a sport shot. Example: If you average 220 on house, you should average 198 on sport.

 Gallandro
Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: Psychoballtester on July 08, 2003, 11:26:02 PM
GREAT POSTS EVERYONE!!!!

My two cents worth,KEEP UP THE PRACTICE,this Sport shot
Stuff will make one more aware of his/her horizons in Lane
Conditionland!

One of you quoted "Leave your ego in the car".Sheeeesh!Car nothing,
leave it at home!

I personally have a love/hate relationship with Sport Shot.

More will follow,well unless they're bowling as we type.

Psycho.B.T
Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: channel surfer on July 08, 2003, 11:45:58 PM
Actually my dad avg's 190 on house and 210 on sport condition, its wierd.. He does better on sport conditions.
--------------------
My Bowling Clinic Site: http://channelsurfers.vze.com

ASK A PRO:http://channelsurfers.vze.com/atp.shtml

Money is no object to me because I dont have any...
Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: gscallan on July 09, 2003, 12:11:32 AM
OKC has had a sanctioned sports shot for the last 2 years now, and the one thing ive learned more than anything, is to think in terms of front to back, not left to right. Maybe this only pertains to my game, but in league, you think of letting the ball react by throwing it right, and it making a turn left. On a sport shot, I think in terms of foul line to pins, think up the lane and use your speed, to your advantage. I guess the easiest way to explain is this, THINK OF YOUR BREAKPOINT FROM FRONT TO BACK AND NOT LEFT TO RIGHT. As far as equipment goes, weather the shot is long or short, it always seems better to use equipment that rolls midlane and reads, I try to avoid balls that have polished or shiny surfaces until the lanes break down where you can play more forgiving area. This is just my 2 cents on what ive experienced from practicing on differnt sanctioned sport shots. One more thing, dont walk in with the mind set, "Im about to bowl on a sport shot." just bowl, and take what the lane gives you, Greg Scallan
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People dont prepare to fail, they fail to prepare...
Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: TwoFourEightNineNine on July 09, 2003, 12:53:36 AM
in my experiences, even rolling bowling equipment rocks my socks. Also, not hitting up on the ball is not necessary. Also, in most cases when lanes are fresh... straighter is greater.
--------------------
-Jeremy Vitug
BallReviews.com Burning Sensations Bowling Team



Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: channel surfer on July 09, 2003, 01:44:44 AM
Yall are saying pick up your spares more than anything like we dont try to pick up our spares on a regular house shot.
--------------------
My Bowling Clinic Site: http://channelsurfers.vze.com

ASK A PRO:http://channelsurfers.vze.com/atp.shtml

Money is no object to me because I dont have any...
Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: HamPster on July 09, 2003, 01:51:06 AM
Good point Tommy.  I suppose I need to try out more sport shots, but I've never been on one that required a ball that hooked much.  I bowled on a JOG shot a couple months ago, and by the 6th game of qualifying, I was playing 5th arrow to 10 with a White Dot.  Tonight I was playing just inside 4th arrow to about 6 or 7 with my X-Zone.  That's where I usually play because it's the most forgiving line, but there's no way I could use that ball on most of the sport patterns I've bowled on.
--------------------
Forget Kung Fu, I know Ron Bahr!!!

The only difference between youth and adult leagues are that the big boys are allowed to whine.  They're more entertaining anyway.
Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: Psychoballtester on July 09, 2003, 04:21:50 AM
Yep,like I posted earlier about the LOVE/HATE thing
on Sport Shot!
I love to try it,But I hate when I miss by a board,darn!!
There are days or nights when my 70's AMF VOIT can pick off spares
better than a Storm ER.Weird,but true.
Sport shot is funny that way.
Also my better games on S-Shot I used a Storm Trauma Recovery and a Brunswick Contact Zone 2.0 dark green.Those worked for me,I still KEEP them in the garage
,just in case I get desperate and my other b-balls fail me.
In fact,I'll try the S.T.Response tonight(way later,its too early now).They
barely closed up an hour ago,ya its a weeknight.So they havent even oiled the lanes yet,oh well.

I'm out,I'm going to Snoozeville,I'll see what's posting tomorrow!

Good Luck everyone who posted before and after me on your
LOCAL SPORT SHOT!

Psycho.B.T
Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: Jeffrevs on July 09, 2003, 08:07:42 AM
OK....not that it takes much, but I'm confused.

Charlest says "use your least hooking ball"

Channel Surfer says "bring a high hook ball"

HUH ??

Shouldn't you have both ??
--------------------
JEFF
Just chimin' in !
Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: Ishmael on July 09, 2003, 10:10:11 AM
quote:
OK....not that it takes much, but I'm confused.

Charlest says "use your least hooking ball"

Channel Surfer says "bring a high hook ball"

HUH ??

Shouldn't you have both ??


Ball selection will be based on the volume of oil and the length of the pattern.  Unless you know ahead of time what those are, you should take equipment that covers all conditions.

I think the key is to use "control" equipment.  Something that reads well in the midlane and is smooth on the backend.
Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: bowl868 on July 09, 2003, 01:02:36 PM
I've bowled in a sport league for 3 years.  One year a dry pattern averaged 200, the last two years, medium heavy 41 ft. pattern averaged 194.  My house shot average for the same house was 228.  I'm a high track stroker/tweener that plays down and in, and here's what worked for me...

1.  Rolling the ball at the foul line and getting the ball into a roll enhanced my reaction greatly.  Normally I loft the ball a bit looking for that extra little lift and hit on the backend.  Any time I did that on the dry or oily sport shot the ball went thru the breakpoint for 2 pins (or 2-8-10's) even with on target shots.

2.  Play tighter lines.  I played successfully for a while around 4th arrow on the oily shot with a tight line with just enough backend to carry.  Even crankers needed to play direct.  On most sport shots anything right is a washout or worse from any angle.  Hopefully you'll have a board or two of hold, that is a bonus.

3.  Are you on synthetic or wood?  My house is an old wood house.  The twig never played.  Direct up 5 or 6 board was where I ended last season with some decent sets.  No matter how direct I was, if I played further out it was plain inconsistent.  BUT, on the league pattern the twig never played either, that was just a characteristic of the lanes.  Many guys in the league thought that the twig would play on a nice smooth synthetic with the pattern we were using.

4.  I noticed it a couple of times in this thread, but keeping an open mind is probably the best thing.  You never know what ball or line will play, especially when you bring carrydown into play.

If you keep a positive open attitude you are ahead of half the field.  Our league dropped the sport condition for this year and we are trying some tweaked house shot.  Bunch of wimps!
Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: Jeffrevs on July 09, 2003, 02:06:35 PM
quote:
Everyone,

Thanks for the tips and advice in this post....  it's great stuff, I appreciate it!  I know Jeff appreciates it as well and is probably as giddy as a school girl after reading all of it!  


YES, appreciative ! VERY VERY!!

Giddy ?? NO,......overwhelmed,....YES !
--------------------
JEFF
Just chimin' in !
Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: Strider on July 09, 2003, 02:12:07 PM
Whatever happened to "Throw Ball Ugh"?
--------------------
Penn State Proud
Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: Jeffrevs on July 09, 2003, 02:13:25 PM
quote:
Whatever happened to "Throw Ball Ugh"?
--------------------
Penn State Proud


Strider, what does that have to do with anything ??
--------------------
JEFF
Just chimin' in !
Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: HamPster on July 09, 2003, 02:29:26 PM
I desperately wanna make love to a schoolboy . . . -Lloyd, Dumb and Dumber.  Hehe.  I shot 894 (four games, lol) in my sport league last night, and it's amazing that the REAL most important thing is having equipment that fits well.
--------------------
Forget Kung Fu, I know Ron Bahr!!!

The only difference between youth and adult leagues are that the big boys are allowed to whine.  They're more entertaining anyway.
Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: charlest on July 09, 2003, 02:39:01 PM
quote:
quote:
OK....not that it takes much, but I'm confused.

Charlest says "use your least hooking ball"

Channel Surfer says "bring a high hook ball"

HUH ??

Shouldn't you have both ??


Ball selection will be based on the volume of oil and the length of the pattern.  Unless you know ahead of time what those are, you should take equipment that covers all conditions.

I think the key is to use "control" equipment.  Something that reads well in the midlane and is smooth on the backend.


I have no clue what a "high hooking ball" might be.

9 times out of 10, a sport shot is not going to be a wide open shot where you can cover 20-30 boards of hook. Thus I suggest smaller hooking balls for all oil patterns.

--------------------
"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."
Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: Jeffrevs on July 09, 2003, 02:53:28 PM
quote:

9 times out of 10, a sport shot is not going to be a wide open shot where you can cover 20-30 boards of hook. Thus I suggest smaller hooking balls for all oil patterns.


Well, so far this is working out for me.....I don't usually open up a lane, I don't / CAN"T hook 20-30 boards, and I like be down and in.....I do have have some strong equipment, but it's not all strong.

I'm looking forward to it.

Shocker,

Thanks! It's July 27th
--------------------
JEFF
Just chimin' in !
Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: HamPster on July 09, 2003, 03:27:17 PM
The ones I've bowled on, you almost have to cover 20-30 boards.  Playing straight requires much more accuracy because of the extreme wet/dry.  I need the angle to push the ball through the dry, this week I played about 30-7.
--------------------
Forget Kung Fu, I know Ron Bahr!!!

The only difference between youth and adult leagues are that the big boys are allowed to whine.  They're more entertaining anyway.
Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: Jeffrevs on July 09, 2003, 03:34:40 PM
WET DRY???  SPORT ???

Hamster.......that doesn't make sense
--------------------
JEFF
Just chimin' in !
Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: HamPster on July 09, 2003, 04:23:53 PM
Lol, yeah, extreme dry inside, extreme wet outside.  What do you think a sport pattern is?  I've been bowling JOG shot tournaments all year.  You miss inside, it's brooklyn before it's halfway down the lane, you miss outside, you'll either have a really nice 3-6 or 6-10 pocket hit.
--------------------
Forget Kung Fu, I know Ron Bahr!!!

The only difference between youth and adult leagues are that the big boys are allowed to whine.  They're more entertaining anyway.
Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: charlest on July 09, 2003, 04:29:51 PM
Sport conditions are supposed to be no more than a 2:1 ratio between dry areas and wet areas, so you should not have an extreme difference between them. We are getting this also, so I alsohave a question or two to raise with our league committee.

--------------------
"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."
Title: Re: Sport Shot Tips
Post by: HamPster on July 09, 2003, 09:03:27 PM
Hmm, then it would fall to reason that a flatter pattern would be easier.  And that seems to be the case.  In my sport league so far, the pattern is flatter and oilier (but still within sport regulations, ABC sanctioned league, I've seen the oil pattern sheet) than I'm used to bowling on, and it almost makes me cry at how much easier it is.  Now that I've finally got my equipment fixed, it's a night and day difference.  Couldn't break 800 before, and now with the comfort of a correct span, I was able to nearly hit 900 the first week after the correction.  It's really easy to figure out, forward roll and breakpoint around 8, and you score.  On oilier or flatter shots, you'd still think that forward roll and a breakpoint between 10 and 15 (depending on how flat the backends are) would get you to the pocket.  I guess I don't understand the difficulty in figuring it out.  Find a mark, hit it and score.  ???
--------------------
Forget Kung Fu, I know Ron Bahr!!!

The only difference between youth and adult leagues are that the big boys are allowed to whine.  They're more entertaining anyway.