Hypothethically speaking of course...

A bowler bowling in small town america due to work reasons, or family reasons who may be one of the most talented bowlers in the country would be at a distinct disadvantage because yes, he will not find 8-9 bowlers with the proper talent to win what is considered the "most prestigious eagle". 

To me, that is a problem.

Also, if the lanes never transitioned, then the left handed vs right handed argument that has been debated for years goes away too.  No advantage for either side. 

Nothing to bitch about.  It's just your skill.  Not help from your team mates.  Not you got a bad cross.  Not someone played them wrong. 

What did you do against the pattern with your skillset.  PERIOD! 

I think the real issue (in my opinion) is most people are jealous of these teams that actually "gamplan" and ultimately execute said plan.  I've seen numerous threads where people were mad about wrecking the "shim" 

I totally agree that the people who win eagles are not your average THS guy, these guys are simply that good.  It wouldn't matter what the scoring condition is, the cream will always rise to the top.  Look at the numbers in another thread about the average scores from the Open, tom dick & harry are averaging sub 160. 

Quote from: itsallaboutme on July 30, 2013, 05:49:11 AM

I just don't get it.  It's not like 5 chops get together with their 180 grit balls, blow open the pattern and shoot 3500.  The teams that win at the USBC are never a fluke.  Great bowlers that bowl well together as a team win at the USBC's.   

The teams that win aren't because they have a talented bowler.  They have 5.  The team that won this year is 5 superstars. 

They shot their highest game the first game.  They shot lower each game.  If the pattern manipulation was the answer they would have gone up each game. 

Sometimes credit needs to be given for the bowler's ability.

Correction: they had 10.  If you're going to give credit, give it to everyone invloved.

Thank you for making my point.  A super star bowler in small town america, is not going to have much success finding 4 other superstars to bowl and practice with.

That makes it a disadvantage for that bowler.

It is what it is.  But that is what it takes to win now.

Is that fair to all bowlers?  I do not think so.

If one year, they decided to shut out the right side and make the left side a house shot.  The right handers would complain like crazy.  "IT WASN'T FAIR"

Well there are bowlers now that are saying it isn't fair because based on where they live puts them at a disadvantage.

You could probably take anyone in the top 500 of all events in the open and put them on Riggs team and Riggs team probably would not suffer any.  The talent is there but they don't have the 9 other guys that Riggs gets to bowl with.  That's my point.

I believe the gentleman's name is Andy Morton.  He posts on here some times.  He lives and works in Alaska I believe.  He's always in the top 100 of all events and singles.  His teams rarely crack the top 100 standing page.  Why because there is not 9 other talented bowlers in the city where he bowls that want to pay the expense of traveling to Reno etc.  To me, he is at a big disadvantage because of the current team rules.

He might find 4 other's to bowl with him.  But 9 in small town Alaska?  See the issue?

The teams that win aren't because they have a talented bowler.  They have 5.  The team that won this year is 5 superstars. 

They shot their highest game the first game.  They shot lower each game.  If the pattern manipulation was the answer they would have gone up each game. 

Sometimes credit needs to be given for the bowler's ability.

This isn't youth soccer.  Everyone doesn't get a trophy. 

If the guy is that good he should have no problem finding a group of guys of equal talent to field a competitive team.  He may just have to broaden his search.

Let me add to this topic:
 
1) making a conditioner or oil that doesn't move or doesn't break down is impossible, and the reason it is impossible is one word: PHYSICS. Simple as that.
 
2) The talented bowler ideal - if this bowler is really that talented, he will be asked to join a team of other talented bowlers. A lot of the top teams have people on them from all over the country. Personally I bowl with guys from 2 different states and 2 different countries. So this hypothetical bowler has no excuses or no reason to bowl with people he doesn't want to. There are many very talented bowlers who want to bowl with their friends and family, and that's great. They also know that they probably won't contend for an Eagle and they are ok with that. That is one of the things that makes this tournament special, you can have a mix of top bowlers bowling together and some bowling with friends/family.
 
3) The 5 vs 10 arguement. This one is a bit more complicated, but I still don't see the major issue. Teams have always bowled together with a companion team, usually. Most teams don't come out as just 5 guys, they have 10 so they can all bowl together and make doubles pairings. This isn't something that just started. Even if they held a blind draw for lanes before a squad, the teams that have the most talented bowlers, who can make the best shots, will still contend for and win Eagles. All your are going to do with this though, is drive away more of the "average" bowlers because now they can't even bowl with their friends since they have drawn a pair at the other end of the house. If your goal is to kill the tournament, then go ahead and implement this. Teams of 10 have worked together for years and years.....only now it becomes an issue because of the new balls that can change a pattern quicker than older equipment. And it gives people another reason to complain that isn't real.
 
The bottom-line is the "average" bowler will never win this tournament. They bowl on nothing but THS and think their 200+ average is an accurate accounting of their skill level. They can't repeat their mechanics, they can't repeat their shots, and that means they won't be winning. Why is this an issue? This tournament is supposed to showcase the best bowlers in the USBC. We should see them winning and near the top of the leaderboard every year. If the "average" bowler wants to contend, they need to dedicate themselves to the game like these bowlers do....practicing week in and week out, getting top level coaching to fix the flaws in their game, bowling on tougher patterns even if that means driving a distance away from their home center, bowling tournaments on tougher patterns to learn how to handle pressure and the competition aspect, etc.. But no, everyone thinks they can bowl 3 games a week on THS and then come and bowl well at the USBC Open. Why? Why is bowling the only sport that people think this way? The local duffer who goes out and shoots 80-85 on relatively easy local course doesn't think they can cotend do that on a PGA Tour caliber course. The local softball player who may be "king" of his beer league doesn't think he can make it a Professional Baseball player, even in the minors. People need to smarten up and realize that today's easy lane conditions and today's new bowling balls have elevated their scores, while keeping their talent the same or even diminishing it. I am tired of hearing about these type of topics.....people complaining about the overall average at the USBC Open, people complaining about teams working together.....this is all just people complaining to hear themselves complain....or it is people making excuses for their own lack of talent....or in the case of one smelly, fishy poster, a personal vendetta against the USBC (and ABC before them).

Let me add to this topic:
 
1) making a conditioner or oil that doesn't move or doesn't break down is impossible, and the reason it is impossible is one word: PHYSICS. Simple as that.
 
2) The talented bowler ideal - if this bowler is really that talented, he will be asked to join a team of other talented bowlers. A lot of the top teams have people on them from all over the country. Personally I bowl with guys from 2 different states and 2 different countries. So this hypothetical bowler has no excuses or no reason to bowl with people he doesn't want to. There are many very talented bowlers who want to bowl with their friends and family, and that's great. They also know that they probably won't contend for an Eagle and they are ok with that. That is one of the things that makes this tournament special, you can have a mix of top bowlers bowling together and some bowling with friends/family.
 
3) The 5 vs 10 arguement. This one is a bit more complicated, but I still don't see the major issue. Teams have always bowled together with a companion team, usually. Most teams don't come out as just 5 guys, they have 10 so they can all bowl together and make doubles pairings. This isn't something that just started. Even if they held a blind draw for lanes before a squad, the teams that have the most talented bowlers, who can make the best shots, will still contend for and win Eagles. All your are going to do with this though, is drive away more of the "average" bowlers because now they can't even bowl with their friends since they have drawn a pair at the other end of the house. If your goal is to kill the tournament, then go ahead and implement this. Teams of 10 have worked together for years and years.....only now it becomes an issue because of the new balls that can change a pattern quicker than older equipment. And it gives people another reason to complain that isn't real.
 
The bottom-line is the "average" bowler will never win this tournament. They bowl on nothing but THS and think their 200+ average is an accurate accounting of their skill level. They can't repeat their mechanics, they can't repeat their shots, and that means they won't be winning. Why is this an issue? This tournament is supposed to showcase the best bowlers in the USBC. We should see them winning and near the top of the leaderboard every year. If the "average" bowler wants to contend, they need to dedicate themselves to the game like these bowlers do....practicing week in and week out, getting top level coaching to fix the flaws in their game, bowling on tougher patterns even if that means driving a distance away from their home center, bowling tournaments on tougher patterns to learn how to handle pressure and the competition aspect, etc.. But no, everyone thinks they can bowl 3 games a week on THS and then come and bowl well at the USBC Open. Why? Why is bowling the only sport that people think this way? The local duffer who goes out and shoots 80-85 on relatively easy local course doesn't think they can cotend do that on a PGA Tour caliber course. The local softball player who may be "king" of his beer league doesn't think he can make it a Professional Baseball player, even in the minors. People need to smarten up and realize that today's easy lane conditions and today's new bowling balls have elevated their scores, while keeping their talent the same or even diminishing it. I am tired of hearing about these type of topics.....people complaining about the overall average at the USBC Open, people complaining about teams working together.....this is all just people complaining to hear themselves complain....or it is people making excuses for their own lack of talent....or in the case of one smelly, fishy poster, a personal vendetta against the USBC (and ABC before them).

Well stated.  I could not have said this any better.  If a person is not willing to pay the price and put in the work to get better at anything they do, why complain and make excuses?

This has nothing to do with balls or lane patterns, but I think the biggest problem with the open is that it's held in Nevada 80-90% of the time, giving those in the east little opportunity to compete without blowing lots of money. Because of this, many of the top finishers are the same people.

And now we get the "it's in Reno too much" crowd as well....what next?!? How about the "where is my check" thread? About time for that yearly farce as well.