BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: tank38 on June 20, 2022, 01:34:17 PM
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We just had a local house install the string bowling machines and I have to say that this was my first time hearing anything about it but, I'm shocked this house would do this. I have never bowled with these machines and I was wondering what your thoughts were or if any of you had bowled on this before?
I'm not sure how I feel about it but it looks weird.
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HONESTLY,
I think I would just entirely quit bowling if that is the only kind of pinsetters that were available to me.
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We just had a local house install the string bowling machines and I have to say that this was my first time hearing anything about it but, I'm shocked this house would do this. I have never bowled with these machines and I was wondering what your thoughts were or if any of you had bowled on this before?
I'm not sure how I feel about it but it looks weird.
There is a house here in Sacramento that has these on the their last 6 pair of lanes. Obviously these are not league or tournament certified, so they are basically used for kids recreational bowling, parties, etc. You won't find any leagues on those lanes. If they do, they wouldn't be USBC certified.
I've bowled on these before, and the one thing I will say i that it was only for any semblance of practice, where I'm working on something more precise as mechanics, hitting my target consistently, or things like that. Score will absolutely not matter on these lanes. Thankfully, this house does oil the entire set, so at least there is something to work with on them.
But for the most, the strings are a big pile of meh. don't worry about ball motion or continuation through the deck or the scores when on them, as the strings will affect those. Focus more on mechanics, consistency, and mental game if you ever bowl on them.
Now, if they put strings on the entire house, I wouldn't go to that house again. That's a clear sign that they are looking only for the parties and charging per half hour instead of leagues or tournaments.
BL.
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There is a place @ Jack London Square in Oakland called Plank that has them. Tried it, hated it, but it had more to do with the lanes not being oiled. Not like that day, I mean ever.
Of course, Plank isn't a bowling center, it's more of a club/pizza bar with maybe 20 lanes of "bowling".
Just my opinion, but if bowling goes this direction, leagues are done.
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The IBF allows string bowling in their equivalent of sanctioned competition. The USBC has been studying string pins for a while and is still trying to decide if they will establish specifications to govern sanctioned string pin bowling. Bowlero is a huge supporter of string pins and is really pushing for it to be approved because it is cheaper to install and maintain. Time will tell.
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The IBF allows string bowling in their equivalent of sanctioned competition. The USBC has been studying string pins for a while and is still trying to decide if they will establish specifications to govern sanctioned string pin bowling. Bowlero is a huge supporter of string pins and is really pushing for it to be approved because it is cheaper to install and maintain. Time will tell.
Not that Bowlero will reduce their prices of course.
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I will never bowl at a place with those. That WOULD be the last straw for me.
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Only bowled on them twice and didn't notice THAT big of a difference. There was some different leaves and pin action, but it didn't affect what I got out of practice either time.
Maybe it's my age, but I'm not terrified or feeling like they are going to wreck the sport, but again, small sample size. As tough as it is for a center to make a buck nowadays I'm all for anything that helps build sustainability of the sport we love (or like, or participate in because we used too, otherwise not sure why anyone would still be on this forum lol)
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This is where this would go. Joe Proprietor no longer needs to pay a mechanic.
He can pay some kid who may, or may not, show up to work; and if he's at work he'll be on his phone all the time.
Joe Proprietor can now save on overhead and NOT lower his prices. Margins are getting better. If you don't need a mechanic anymore then he can oil lanes once a week, because anyone who likes bowling with pins attached to strings won't care if there's oil on the lanes or not. Margins getting better still...
Real bowlers will go where they can get the occasional Messenger pin to clean up the 10 pin instead of "limits" as to how far a pin can move on the deck. What about replacing pins that turn to mush over time? Sounds more expensive than buying traditional pins... so it won't happen...
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:o www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dmf8xkqne5A ::) So much for any normal pin action for the cables will pretty much eliminate that I figure. I too would give up bowling if this was a stand alone option.
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After looking into this a little further I would have a hard time enjoying bowling anymore on lanes with this setup. I know I'm old school but, this just isn't the way bowling is supposed to be. I've watched a few videos and listened to some conversations on this and it just doesn't seem like a change most people would go for including me.
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String length is the biggest factor. The USBC study is actually pretty interesting to read, and the overall differences between string bowling and free standing pins is not all that much different. If I recall, they determined there were fewer ten pin leaves and sightly more four pin leaves (for righties.). Again, it all depends on the length of the strings.
People that have bowled on string pins regularly have said it actually makes you a better bowler, because you have to be a little more exact in the pocket to carry. You get rewarded for well executed shots. Otherwise, you get what you deserved.
If this ever became the standard I would probably keep bowling. Once you got used to it, it would just become normal. If the specifications are established correctly, it would be very very close to free standing pins.
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In my opinion, a USBC study has zero credibility. Their "results" seem to consist of whatever bullshit idea Chad is currently pushing.
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Force this experiment on the PBA in a tournament and make it a major. Then put it on TV so I can watch.
That will be entertaining. Especially if they do it on the senior tour. Then I can watch and listen to PDW.
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There is a house here in Sacramento that has these on the their last 6 pair of lanes. Obviously these are not league or tournament certified, so they are basically used for kids recreational bowling, parties, etc. You won't find any leagues on those lanes. If they do, they wouldn't be USBC certified.
I've bowled on these before, and the one thing I will say i that it was only for any semblance of practice, where I'm working on something more precise as mechanics, hitting my target consistently, or things like that. Score will absolutely not matter on these lanes. Thankfully, this house does oil the entire set, so at least there is something to work with on them.
But for the most, the strings are a big pile of meh. don't worry about ball motion or continuation through the deck or the scores when on them, as the strings will affect those. Focus more on mechanics, consistency, and mental game if you ever bowl on them.
Now, if they put strings on the entire house, I wouldn't go to that house again. That's a clear sign that they are looking only for the parties and charging per half hour instead of leagues or tournaments.
BL.
I also bowl in Sacramento, and the house I bowl at (Country Club) has 32 regular lanes for league play, and then another 16 lanes of strings. The strings are... Not good. When the ball hits you can hear a deadness to the pins. Strings get tangled and pins fall that were untouched, but got wrapped up by another string.
I agree with you, it's fine for practice, because you're (suppose to be) focusing on everything other than score.
I strongly dislike them, and if league went to that, I would no longer bowl there. Sacramento has the benefit of enough competing alleys you have that choice. Other towns... That's not really an option. Lakeport and Ukiah both closed down within the past 3ish years and the closest alleys left near me are Sacramento and Windsor.
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In my opinion, a USBC study has zero credibility. Their "results" seem to consist of whatever bullshit idea Chad is currently pushing.
The USBC is still hesitant to sanction string bowling. Meanwhile it is certified for sport bowling in Europe, Asia, etc. People seem not to want it for sanctioned play, and the USBC currently agrees. This is one time where the bowlers and the USBC tend to agree.
However, I am betting within the next three years string pins will be approved for sanctioned competition and bowling centers will start converting. USBC will either adopt the IBF standards or draft their own.
https://brunswickbowling.com/company/news/brunswick-stringpin-meets-ibf-specifications-for-use-in-competitive-tournaments-and-leagues
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I would probably quit bowling leagues if this became a thing. Which means if I quit leagues, I quit bowling period. It's cool either way for me.
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If strings get approved, how does that affect the USBC Open Championships and/or the Women's Championships?
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If the USBC ran golf Augusta would have artificial turf fairways.
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USBC will certify string pins. Likely this year. It's coming
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My thought is that competitive bowling would all but cease to exist. Nobody is going to pay $25.00/night in a money league to deal with foreign objects that affect pin carry. The USBC Tournament would diminish significantly to a point it may not be worth even having it anymore. Who is going to fork out $1,000 (providing there are no deals on flights and hotels) to go bowl with stringed pins? The USBC is hard enough as it is and now they would think about throwing strings into the mix. It would be a very short list of people that would even bother going to it.
Here is what I would like to know from USBC: They are doing everything they can to limit what a bowler can do to a bowling ball once competition starts regarding surface adjustments, cleaners, wrist braces, weight holes, and whatever else that will affect the way a ball rolls but now they want to put strings on pins that will affect the way the pins fall? Hmmmmm....interesting.
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Bowlero is the force behind this. Their string setters promise lower initial cost and even lower maintenance. Synthetic lanes we're promoted the same way 40years ago. However we saw that those surfaces had a much shorter life than advertised. Not good for the game as a sport. Might as well go virtual and put your glasses on.
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My thought is that competitive bowling would all but cease to exist. Nobody is going to pay $25.00/night in a money league to deal with foreign objects that affect pin carry. The USBC Tournament would diminish significantly to a point it may not be worth even having it anymore. Who is going to fork out $1,000 (providing there are no deals on flights and hotels) to go bowl with stringed pins? The USBC is hard enough as it is and now they would think about throwing strings into the mix. It would be a very short list of people that would even bother going to it.
Here is what I would like to know from USBC: They are doing everything they can to limit what a bowler can do to a bowling ball once competition starts regarding surface adjustments, cleaners, wrist braces, weight holes, and whatever else that will affect the way a ball rolls but now they want to put strings on pins that will affect the way the pins fall? Hmmmmm....interesting.
USBC did a study or said they did that shows the difference in pin carrier from real pins to string pins was a stupid low number less then 3 pins. So if you average 223 on real pins and 220 on string pins then why would the USBC be against it? Anything to lower scoring is good in their opinion
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I think it's too early (for me, anyway), to cast an opinion on string bowling.
As far as lane surfaces go, my 50+ years of experience no doubt, places synthetic surfaces far and above wood lanes both in terms of maintenance costs, labor and longevity. I used to work in a 24 lane house years ago. They were a lot of work to keep up. In addition, they had to be resurfaced every 2 years. That center switched to synthetics years ago. No more need for biannual resurfacing, no more filling divots, much less ball damage.They have been a huge improvement over wood surfaces.
In fact, when I saw this thread, I called another one of my longtime friends whose family has owned their center since 1948. I posed this question to him (wood v synthetics?).
"Synthetics are the best, hands down, in terms of cost, labor and longevity", was his reply.
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Bowlero is the force behind this. Their string setters promise lower initial cost and even lower maintenance. Synthetic lanes we're promoted the same way 40years ago. However we saw that those surfaces had a much shorter life than advertised. Not good for the game as a sport. Might as well go virtual and put your glasses on.
I can't agree with this; the house here in Sacramento is an independent, not Bowlero.
If there's a force behind this, it actually is QubicaAMF, as they are the ones who are building these.
BL.
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My bad. I actually should have said Qubica.
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As bad as the racks are at my local Bowlero center, I’m not sure how much worse it could be with strings.
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My bad. I actually should have said Qubica.
Actually, I apologize, because I'm wrong as well. I didn't realize Brunswick was also developing the Stringpin.
https://brunswickbowling.com/bowling-centers/equipment-parts-supplies/center-environment/pinsetters/stringpin-pinsetter-2
As bad as the racks are at my local Bowlero center, I’m not sure how much worse it could be with strings.
As long as they stay away from the Stringpin, and the QubicaAMF TMS (meaning, stay with the Brunswick A series or their GS series, or the AMF 82-xx series), you'll be good. Anything Stringpin, TMS, or Edge String, just walk out of the alley.
BL.
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Strings are horrible. Such pinsetters are pretty common here in Germany, but you only find them at places that do not feature official sport bowling conditions for tournaments or league play. They are only used in fully recreational locations, and they have been the standard for Kegelbahnen (bowling's 9-pin origins) for decades, because the string pinsetters require much less space and maintenance for the mechanics. I played on string pinsetter lanes and found it horrible. The pin reaction is really poor, as if the pins were "cushioned", with weird pin reactions. And since these locations typically do not cater to sport bowlers (lane conditioner? what?), the lanes are generally not in good shape.
However, recently there has been the discussion among officials to accept lanes with string pinsetters as sport bowling locations, due to the loss of more and more "normal" locations for league play. Not a development that I am looking forward to.
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Reading these comments, its a small miracle we are not still using wood bowling balls. If we are all competing on the same condition, does it really matter what condition that is? Not to the real competitors it doesn't.
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Reading these comments, its a small miracle we are not still using wood bowling balls. If we are all competing on the same condition, does it really matter what condition that is? Not to the real competitors it doesn't.
Really? So the actual PBA bowlers are not "real competitors"?
Even today there are PBA bowlers who still bitch about two-handers, no thumb and urethane balls. I can only imagine the reaction to strings at the PBA level.
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Reading these comments, its a small miracle we are not still using wood bowling balls. If we are all competing on the same condition, does it really matter what condition that is? Not to the real competitors it doesn't.
You're confusing two completely different subjects.
The transition from wood balls, to rubber, to urethane, to resin were all advancements that moved the game forward.
People aren't resisting strings because they hate change, they're resisting strings because it's a step backwards in every aspect of the "bowlers" world. (I can't argue the benefits they obviously have for owners\alleys\business)
Pretending that "all change" is the exact same, is an extremely close minded perspective to have. If people were just resisting change (many of the bowling world does, so I completely understand why you're confused) then I would completely agree with you. People crying about oil, resin, 2 hands... Old grumpy people stuck in the past, who refuse to accept the "advancing" of the game "for the good" of the sport.
This is the exact opposite scenario though. This is a step backwards, to an inferior technology, with zero benefit to the competitive aspect of the sport, specifically done with the intent of turning higher profits.
Now, if you want to argue that the cost savings and profit are what are required to save the sport... You'd have a strong argument there. We've all seen the number of alleys that have failed in the past 5 years, and obviously strings could have potentially altered the finances of them, so from that angle, I understand that strings may inevitably be the way the bowling world goes, but let's not pretend it's for the benefit of competing. It's a blatant sacrifice to the validity of the game, in order to ensure the game survives.
2 very different things that you have to be able to differentiate.
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Reading these comments, its a small miracle we are not still using wood bowling balls. If we are all competing on the same condition, does it really matter what condition that is? Not to the real competitors it doesn't.
You're confusing two completely different subjects.
The transition from wood balls, to rubber, to urethane, to resin were all advancements that moved the game forward.
People aren't resisting strings because they hate change, they're resisting strings because it's a step backwards in every aspect of the "bowlers" world. (I can't argue the benefits they obviously have for owners\alleys\business)
Pretending that "all change" is the exact same, is an extremely close minded perspective to have. If people were just resisting change (many of the bowling world does, so I completely understand why you're confused) then I would completely agree with you. People crying about oil, resin, 2 hands... Old grumpy people stuck in the past, who refuse to accept the "advancing" of the game "for the good" of the sport.
This is the exact opposite scenario though. This is a step backwards, to an inferior technology, with zero benefit to the competitive aspect of the sport, specifically done with the intent of turning higher profits.
Now, if you want to argue that the cost savings and profit are what are required to save the sport... You'd have a strong argument there. We've all seen the number of alleys that have failed in the past 5 years, and obviously strings could have potentially altered the finances of them, so from that angle, I understand that strings may inevitably be the way the bowling world goes, but let's not pretend it's for the benefit of competing. It's a blatant sacrifice to the validity of the game, in order to ensure the game survives.
2 very different things that you have to be able to differentiate.
I was trying to come up with a response to opienva1's post and not cause an argument but this perfectly sums up what I wanted to say. (Better even) Awesome response Adrenaline.
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The whole point of this Bowlero/PBA League Bowling is to get String Pinsetters approved for league and tournament bowling. That's the only real beef that Bowlero has with the USBC. If the USBC approves String Pinsetters, this probably goes away.
In any event, all Bowlero center will have String Pinsetters in 5 to 10 years due to lower cost of maintenance. One way or the other, Bowlero is going to get it's way on String Pinsetters.
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If keeping cost down and centers open isn't good for the sport, Then I don't know what is.
Reading these comments, its a small miracle we are not still using wood bowling balls. If we are all competing on the same condition, does it really matter what condition that is? Not to the real competitors it doesn't.
You're confusing two completely different subjects.
The transition from wood balls, to rubber, to urethane, to resin were all advancements that moved the game forward.
People aren't resisting strings because they hate change, they're resisting strings because it's a step backwards in every aspect of the "bowlers" world. (I can't argue the benefits they obviously have for owners\alleys\business)
Pretending that "all change" is the exact same, is an extremely close minded perspective to have. If people were just resisting change (many of the bowling world does, so I completely understand why you're confused) then I would completely agree with you. People crying about oil, resin, 2 hands... Old grumpy people stuck in the past, who refuse to accept the "advancing" of the game "for the good" of the sport.
This is the exact opposite scenario though. This is a step backwards, to an inferior technology, with zero benefit to the competitive aspect of the sport, specifically done with the intent of turning higher profits.
Now, if you want to argue that the cost savings and profit are what are required to save the sport... You'd have a strong argument there. We've all seen the number of alleys that have failed in the past 5 years, and obviously strings could have potentially altered the finances of them, so from that angle, I understand that strings may inevitably be the way the bowling world goes, but let's not pretend it's for the benefit of competing. It's a blatant sacrifice to the validity of the game, in order to ensure the game survives.
2 very different things that you have to be able to differentiate.
I was trying to come up with a response to opienva1's post and not cause an argument but this perfectly sums up what I wanted to say. (Better even) Awesome response Adrenaline.
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Subbed in a center with string machines the last two weeks. I've been enjoying the 3-4 string assisted strikes I've been getting per set. Mostly flat 7 pins for me where the string gets tugged. I guess that's the new messenger strike. Averaging 247 for the 6 games, totally legit.
But the highlight of the night was seeing someone pick up the 2,8,10 by hitting the 2,8 dead on.
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I've got probably 20-30 years of good bowling left in me before I call it quits. I hope I'm able to avoid string houses for that long.
Strings are coming. Nothing any bowler can do about it. Bowlero is pushing it and a major part of the reason they are expanding the Certified League Bowler program and creating an equipment certification department is to get strings in. Once that happens, every Bowlero center will switch to strings as soon as the life cycle of the current equipment is up. The USBC will either go along with it or get buried by it.
I've seen strings in action firsthand although I've not bowled on them myself. It's different enough that I'd consider it a different game.
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So I've been closely following all the chatter about this string bowling.
What the heck is it? And can you describe it to me?
How is it different?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEqSrZR0h2c
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If keeping cost down and centers open isn't good for the sport, Then I don't know what is.
You need to watch some of the overseas tournaments from the JPBA, KPBA, and Rankseeker. They know how to keep their tournaments packed, and by extension, their bowling centers. Cost doesn't seem to be prohibitive for them, because they've kept this marketed as a competitive sport. What has failed us here in the US is business thinking that they know better than the sport, and screwing over the sport, let alone the industry.
I mean, again from the CEO of the company pushing the PBA certification program and the entire concept of string bowling (as it has been put here):
No one cares about bowling. - Tom Shannon, CEO of Bowlero
There's the problem.
BL.
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Bowling in Japan is also considered a licensed, certified profession. It is literally a job.
In the US, anyone with a 200+ average can get their PBA card and give it a run. Bowling in the US just doesn't have the same level of respect and professionalism that it does in other countries.
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My country is about to convert its last centre and the only one still running leagues to string pinsetters. None of these centres were struggling financially, the decisions were made to make more money for the proprietors. In doing so they've ended the careers of several experienced lane mechanics and effectively killed league/competition bowling in this country for those wanting to taking it seriously. And no one cares.
To hell with this sport; guess I'll be taking up golf.
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I started league this week and a couple of guys were saying that they heard string pin bowling centers will be able to get sanctioned next year. Is this true? I thought this would take a while to get to that point...
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My question is will the PBA ever adopt bowling with the strings? Knowing how much pin action the pros get with their ball roll, Im thinking the pin carry will double if they bowl with the strings just due to the fact of the strings getting tangled and pulling on each other. Doesnt seem logical other than saving money on personel/mechanics. So whos gonna fix the string machines when they break down and yes they will break down at some point.
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These guys were saying that the pin action seems to be slower with the strings than what you get from standard pins.
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Yea i understand but with strings flying all over the deck getting tangled with other strings, pulling down other pins, guess i'll just have to see for myself.
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Definitely with you there.
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It would eliminate some messengers the "power" bowlers get that the rest of us rarely see.
The days of the 4 or 7 pin bouncing off the side board and all the way across the lane to take out the ten would be over. Picking up a 4 7 10 or 6 7 10 or big four would no longer be possible either.
Or if these were still possible, the strings would have to be so long that it would have a serious effect on the game.
Just my opinion. :-)
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The thing to watch for is how the various pocket hits react. High flush should be the same. Watch the 4 pin trip, the half pocket 10, the snow plow 5, and the shaker. Pretty sure some of those hits will yield odd results .
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Can you make a 7-10 with strings?
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Good question. They could easily make the strings long enough but who knows. My guess is yea
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The only thing that would make string bowling even better would be to use the original version Twister pins! >:(
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Nothing more fun than 7-9 on high flush hit with twisters
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A question I have...we all currently know what a good/preferred strike looks like when it comes to entry angle, how the pins fall, etc, will there be a different "best way" to strike on strings. I could see more ball speed having a greater effect with strings flying all over the place, or maybe not. I would guess what currently carries the best might be a bit different on strings.
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A question I have...we all currently know what a good/preferred strike looks like when it comes to entry angle, how the pins fall, etc, will there be a different "best way" to strike on strings. I could see more ball speed having a greater effect with strings flying all over the place, or maybe not. I would guess what currently carries the best might be a bit different on strings.
It actually wouldn't matter. I mean, if you get in the swish zone, you could have the head pin hit the left side wall, come back off of it, take out the 10 pin, and because of the strings, get yanked back to the left side wall and take out the 7, where otherwise you'd only have a 7 pin to pick up on the second ball.
In short, you'd have a lot of horribly stupid breaks with strings that normally would never physically happen on a lane without them.
BL.
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The strings could allow the head pin to become a messenger on the 10 but I don't see any way the string would also yank the head pin back across to take a second pass on the 7. I do think the swishers are where you could see some odd things