BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: BobOhio on September 06, 2015, 09:39:51 AM
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As stated by many experts, ball surface has the most effect on ball motion.
Which after much research, this seems to be the case. Then why does the USBC not allow surface changes during competition? Pads are available to everyone and the time to change the surface is about as long as changing a piece of tape.
Thanks
Bob
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Probably has something to do with dust from dry sanding with rough grits and the myriad of liquid abrasives that would get all over the place being used by hand on the fly. People struggle enough (for some reason, it's not tough to use responsibly) handling powders/rosins so adding possible dust/liquid abrasives/polishes/compounds would likely lead to settee areas being issues.
So my guess would be to legislate some of the slobs.
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They make numerous adjustable golf clubs but you can't change after the round has started
Dance with the girl that brung ya
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Not sure I buy that golf reasoning, NASCAR allows a ton of changes to equipment after the completion starts, again it's all about ball motion. If I know how to change that, why can't I?
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No matter how this is answered there will always be a rebuttal
Instead of BallReviews why not either contact USBC and ask or try and change/alter the rule
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Rico, first I appreciate all you're comments on this site and I'am working with my local USBC to find the correct people at HQ. Just put this out there to see if anyone else feels the same as myself.
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While you can't add more friction to the ball, aren't the Lustre Kings legal to use to add polish to a ball during competition?
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While you can't add more friction to the ball, aren't the Lustre Kings legal to use to add polish to a ball during competition?
Not anymore, they changed the rule a while back. You must have forgot
http://www.ballreviews.com/miscellaneous/ball-polisher-no-longer-legal-during-competition-t303838.0.html (http://www.ballreviews.com/miscellaneous/ball-polisher-no-longer-legal-during-competition-t303838.0.html)
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you can bring up that in international competition you can change it between games, not during the game, I believer Team USA trials is also the same way.
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U can still add polish to a ball during league. I do it all the time Lane 1 Secret Sauce is approved anytime. Can polish a ball like a marble in 5 mins by hand.
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U can still add polish to a ball during league. I do it all the time Lane 1 Secret Sauce is approved anytime. Can polish a ball like a marble in 5 mins by hand.
I really don't understand the reasoning by the USBC on this one but I take advantage of the rule as well.
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While you can't add more friction to the ball, aren't the Lustre Kings legal to use to add polish to a ball during competition?
Not anymore, they changed the rule a while back. You must have forgot
http://www.ballreviews.com/miscellaneous/ball-polisher-no-longer-legal-during-competition-t303838.0.html (http://www.ballreviews.com/miscellaneous/ball-polisher-no-longer-legal-during-competition-t303838.0.html)
Wow, my memory is really starting to fail me on a regular basis now. Thanks for that reminder. :)
I did forget that topic. Now, I have to remember that at the lanes.
Today, I could not remember my password for this site. Good thing breathing is automatic.
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Me personally would think it could turn into a cluster f**k as one would see a qualified individual sanding there ball and they'd wanna do it...to me it's a little overkill
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Protecting people from themselves is a good point.
On the other hand if it was allowed imagine how fun it would be stocking up on 240 grit pads to hand out when someone asks to sand a ball after seeing it done by others during league….. And chalk for all
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Why not just move your feet? Adjust speed, adjust hand position? Are bowlers getting this lazy?
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I can see now.
League night the end of the first game, everyone is whipping out their abralon. A cloud of sanding dust rises at alot tables or theres a big rush to the proshop to get it threw on the spinner.
Bowlers complaining about the sanding dust getting on the approach, their takng too long at the proshop and holding up the game, someone spilled polish on the floor or didn't wipe it all off the ball.
A noob getting yelled at because he sanded with 220 grit and took all the oil off the lane, bowlers running around asking to borrow a pad.
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I can see now.
League night the end of the first game, everyone is whipping out their abralon. A cloud of sanding dust rises at alot tables or theres a big rush to the proshop to get it threw on the spinner.
Bowlers complaining about the sanding dust getting on the approach, their takng too long at the proshop and holding up the game, someone spilled polish on the floor or didn't wipe it all off the ball.
A noob getting yelled at because he sanded with 220 grit and took all the oil off the lane, bowlers running around asking to borrow a pad.
+1
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If I was a proprietor, I wouldn't allow any ball on my lanes that appeared to be less than 1000 grit. With bone dry outside 10 board on most house shots there is no reason to throw balls that shorten the life of my investment by literally years.
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Have to throw another twist in just for fun. Up until just a few years back the PBA allowed you to sand just part of the ball. This was very useful IF you knew what you were doing. Just sand the tracks on the area of the ball you wanted more bite and leave the rest with a smoother grit or even polish. This was changed to match the USBC rule although there are likely still tricks out there to sand section a little rougher than other areas. Why can't I sand a couple tracks if I know how. IF other bowlers want that advantage then experiment and learn how. Personally I never mastered the technique but did see the advantage. This had to be done prior to completion of practice..
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If I was a proprietor, I wouldn't allow any ball on my lanes that appeared to be less than 1000 grit. With bone dry outside 10 board on most house shots there is no reason to throw balls that shorten the life of my investment by literally years.
Good thing you aren't a proprietor….. You'd think you'd put oil out side of 10 instead of banning bowling ball surface you seem to not understand.
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I think in the old days, folks dunked their rubber balls in Acetone to expand the pores and get more traction, becoming invincible.
That was soaked their plastic balls in Methyl Ethyl Ketone, but they didn't do it at the lanes,
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Good thing you aren't a proprietor….. You'd think you'd put oil out side of 10 instead of banning bowling ball surface you seem to not understand.
Bob Hanson is the proprietor of a bowling center and a very accomplished bowler. Based on his contributions here on BR, he's proved to have a good handle on the surfaces of both balls and lanes.
Most centers don't put oil outside of 10 because it's good business. Except for the very small number of better bowlers, most need help from the funnel to the pocket that dry outsides provide. It only makes sense to cater to those who spend the most.
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Good thing you aren't a proprietor….. You'd think you'd put oil out side of 10 instead of banning bowling ball surface you seem to not understand.
Bob Hanson is the proprietor of a bowling center and a very accomplished bowler. Based on his contributions here on BR, he's proved to have a good handle on the surfaces of both balls and lanes.
Most centers don't put oil outside of 10 because it's good business. Except for the very small number of better bowlers, most need help from the funnel to the pocket that dry outsides provide. It only makes sense to cater to those who spend the most.
Most centers do put oil outside, it is just a matter of how much. How many bowlers do you have trying to play outside of 10 throwing grit?
Since 1000 grit will respond slower to friction then a polished ball you can see why depending on the line i would want to use the correct surface to get the desired results.
What will you do about bowling balls that are sanded with 500/2000, or 500/3000 ect? Will they be banned too for such an aggressive under grit? Would the proshop need to polish them before putting them on the shelf or just not stock them at all?
I'm not sure what Bob's credentials have to do with if you owned a center banning surface at or below 1000 because you do not wish to put more oil on certain parts of the lane. It is your center and you will oil where you want to.
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I'm not sure what Bob's credentials have to do with if you owned a center banning surface at or below 1000 because you do not wish to put more oil on certain parts of the lane. It is your center and you will oil where you want to.
You seemed to originally question Bob's credentials for 'understanding' ball surfaces. If I misread your statement, my apologies.
Now, to my response. Of course centers put oil outside of 10. But the insides are mostly a puddle in comparison. That was my only message.
Look, proprietors are always going to put low volumes of oil outside of 10 to keep bowlers happy, and there will never be restrictions on ball surfaces. But to Bob's point, low grit balls do shorten the life of lanes, and they're not necessary to score well on a THS. Higher volume sport shots are a different animal, but those conditions are never seen by 99% of bowlers.
Nothing is going to be banned. It's just a what-if discussion.
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I don't doubt his credentials I just have no idea who he is or that he may have previously discussed not allowing lower grits on ths?
Depending on the lane surface no matter the balls initial grit the lane will make the balls surface smoother or rougher rather quickly. As seen in vids posted by jayhawk in less then 3 games. I think that would really limit the possible wear and tear factor of a ball at lower grit.
Based off of what I've seen from Jayhawks video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMwsO2JCZxY
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Kidlost, based on this video, I fall back on my post a couple weeks ago. Why should we even play with surfaces or do tricks like skip-a-grit on a ths? A lower sanded ball will be ~4-5,000 grit by the end of the night. I am guessing highly polished balls will be the same by 3rd game. Different tricks with surface will be nulled after one game. Anymore, I just use 4,000 grit pads on all my equipment when I resurface except for my original mastermind. I hit it with a 500 pad or green scotch Brite pad every time I use it. And it only comes out when I have an absolute flood or heavy carry down and I have to burn a breakpoint into the lane. Anything else i feel like would be waste of time unless I wanted to touch up surfaces after every league night
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I fall back on my post a couple weeks ago. Why should we even play with surfaces or do tricks like skip-a-grit on a ths? A lower sanded ball will be ~4-5,000 grit by the end of the night.
You didn't learn a single thing from all those excellent responses in that thread, did you?
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Kidlost, based on this video, I fall back on my post a couple weeks ago. Why should we even play with surfaces or do tricks like skip-a-grit on a ths? A lower sanded ball will be ~4-5,000 grit by the end of the night. I am guessing highly polished balls will be the same by 3rd game. Different tricks with surface will be nulled after one game. Anymore, I just use 4,000 grit pads on all my equipment when I resurface except for my original mastermind. I hit it with a 500 pad or green scotch Brite pad every time I use it. And it only comes out when I have an absolute flood or heavy carry down and I have to burn a breakpoint into the lane. Anything else i feel like would be waste of time unless I wanted to touch up surfaces after every league night
There are many PBA members in a recent video online who talked about how little they ever clean equipment. Most throw it till they dont like the reaction and go onto the next.
Yes the surface will be changed. How quickly will depend on the balls surface, and the amount of oil, and the bowlers style which all vary from bowler to bowler.
If you had a ball spinner and you were told the next time you go bowl a tournament, league ect that the lanes are going to be heavier oil pattern, and maybe even a flatter pattern would you just leave everything as is or would you want to adjust the surface of at least one or two bowling balls to be better suited for that condition?
It is subjective to the bowler and what you choose to do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qh6LAhCO9pE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGDXVAdv_fs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0B873JWSmY
Great vids by Jayhawk!!!
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Bowling can be ridiculous enough at times with the house hacks bringing 8 high end balls to shoot 585 on China each night. Lets drag out the night by another half hour waiting on these same people to re sand their ball after every ball that doesn't hit high flush - it must be the ball, not their delivery or their lack of adjusting to the other 7 people throwing equipment 2 steps stronger than necessary.
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I actually did learn a lot. That is why I said why adjust surface on a THS. Sport patterns, yes I can see regularly keeping on top of surface. And if I knew I was going to be bowling on heavy oil, I would adjust surfaces. But on a regular ths league where there is defined friction to the outside, I still see it as unneeded AS LONG AS THE EQUIPMENT IS STILL WORKING. And providing the bowler is not on a skill level 99.9% of us will ever have a hope of reaching. Maybe the issue is that, in every house I bowl at, I get my best reaction at roughly 4000 grit and slightly polished equipment, which is where the surface scans show a ball ending up at in that video. I doubt the factors that effect those numbers will change it too much. If I use equipment at a lower grit, my balls start burning up by the end of the first game. If I go higher, I lose the control I need. Also, if I keep everything at the same grit, I can control reaction shape and strength with ball choice and drilling.
And Good Times, there is no need to be condescending all the time. I'm here to learn and try to understand the game better. When i am wrong, which is frequently because I don't have a full understanding of the theoretical side of bowling, I welcome people saying "hey this is where you are wrong," and correcting me. What I don't welcome is someone saying "you didn't learn a single thing from all those excellent responses, did you?" Or whatever you said, without actually answering my new question which was different from my first question because of the answers I received. You sir are just another dick behind a keyboard trolling the Internet for fun.
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Actually I haven't been a proprietor for many years. My point in the original post was that it is totally unnecessary on the THS to need any kind of extremely aggressive surface. Truthfully if you can't hook a rock outside the oil line on a house shot your delivery is so flawed that nothing will hook properly. In addition, after watching a lot of bowlers over a lot of years I see 10 guys throwing balls that burn out too early for every one who needs more surface
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I actually did learn a lot. That is why I said why adjust surface on a THS. Sport patterns, yes I can see regularly keeping on top of surface. And if I knew I was going to be bowling on heavy oil, I would adjust surfaces. But on a regular ths league where there is defined friction to the outside, I still see it as unneeded AS LONG AS THE EQUIPMENT IS STILL WORKING. And providing the bowler is not on a skill level 99.9% of us will ever have a hope of reaching. Maybe the issue is that, in every house I bowl at, I get my best reaction at roughly 4000 grit and slightly polished equipment, which is where the surface scans show a ball ending up at in that video. I doubt the factors that effect those numbers will change it too much. If I use equipment at a lower grit, my balls start burning up by the end of the first game. If I go higher, I lose the control I need. Also, if I keep everything at the same grit, I can control reaction shape and strength with ball choice and drilling.
And Good Times, there is no need to be condescending all the time. I'm here to learn and try to understand the game better. When i am wrong, which is frequently because I don't have a full understanding of the theoretical side of bowling, I welcome people saying "hey this is where you are wrong," and correcting me. What I don't welcome is someone saying "you didn't learn a single thing from all those excellent responses, did you?" Or whatever you said, without actually answering my new question which was different from my first question because of the answers I received. You sir are just another dick behind a keyboard trolling the Internet for fun.
I'm not a troll, I actually offer advice, trolls offer none. Post #1 of this thread, right on topic. Condescending...I can come across as that but that doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about.
If not maintaining surface is working, then don't do it. I bowl on multiple lane surfaces and different length/volume THS' as well as tournament and sport patterns (I assume you may not) so to me, clean and fresh surfaces are optimal. Just because China masks things doesn't excuse laziness, IMO. Good habits are good habits.
Listen to Kidlost, he's offering great advice.
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lilpossum1 and avabob are all THS the same?
No, because of topography, oil machines, temp, and other conditions not all THS are the same. Even in some houses depending on the day of the week.
lilpossum1 for varying ths and depending on the ball and the line will depend on how much you will keep up with on surface and cleaning ect. Like you mentioned, for you it isn't really as necessary as maybe needed for others. Especially depending on what type of surface finish you maybe using. Let the ball reaction be the deciding factor on when you need to refresh the surface. For difference THS in different places and different bowlers more surface maybe needed for different reasons. How long that surface last will also vary some.
My point in the original post was that it is totally unnecessary on the THS to need any kind of extremely aggressive surface. Truthfully if you can't hook a rock outside the oil line on a house shot your delivery is so flawed that nothing will hook properly. In addition, after watching a lot of bowlers over a lot of years I see 10 guys throwing balls that burn out too early for every one who needs more surface
I disagree. Too many factors for too many bowlers depending on the center, ball, and line they are trying to play. Broad general assumptions in a varying environment as bowling isn't such a great way to think. So if everyone isn;t playing off of the "defined" friction outside they may need different surface to play where they are. Or if they are speed dominant, or whatever may be the case. It will vary. There are few absolutes in bowling, there are plenty of variables.
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lilpossum, as much as you may think I'm a dick, I really do want to see you get better and achieve your goals in the game. The very fact you're asking questions shows your dedication.
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Things a VAST majority of bowlers - AT ALL LEVELS - do NOT truly understand is actual ball motion and/or conditions...for reaction to be optimum - carry wise - ALL bowling balls have to slow down properly...the bowling ball does NOT know what condition it's rolling on - THS or some named condition - bowlers truly need to get past ALL the labels placed on a lane condition and LEARN how to adjust properly
And another true misconception is how to use surface correctly...hell most pro shop operators don't know how why would bowlers
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There is a difference between taking a surface way down and keeping a fresh surface. Balls need to be resurfaced and rejuvenated. I have done all my tournament stuff in the last month. I happen to finish mine at 4000 because that surface matches up for me on a variety of conditions.
No reason for anyone to put anything less than 1000 on a ball. Putting extreme dull surfaces on a ball equates to hacker golfers who hood the driver face to avoid a slice because they cant learn how to release the club properly.
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So is 500/2000 or 500/1000 or 360/1000 also hacker bowling? (On a THS of course not real patterns)
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Anybody that understands the golf swing understands that more times than not - hooding the face creates more of a slice tran anything
Truly bad analogy or comparison
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The only way a driver could effect a golf course similar to 1000 grit on a bowling ball is if the driver creates a spark and starts a fire burning off all the turf...
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No reason for anyone to put anything less than 1000 on a ball. Putting extreme dull surfaces on a ball equates to hacker golfers who hood the driver face to avoid a slice because they cant learn how to release the club properly.
Bob, you are 100% dead wrong here. Unless you forgot to add on most THS shots. I am speed dominant, and I bowled in a house where the lanes played much tighter than the patterns normally would. In bowling on some of the PBA patterns, I found it necessary to have my ball at 500 grit. I scored well and wound up 3rd in the league in average, falling only behind a member of Team Canada and a Storm Amateur staffer. Kidlost is correct. A lot depends on the lanes and the bowler. You can't make blanket statements like this.
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Jorge, look at what Bob posted earlier:
If I was a proprietor, I wouldn't allow any ball on my lanes that appeared to be less than 1000 grit. With bone dry outside 10 board on most house shots there is no reason to throw balls that shorten the life of my investment by literally years.
He clearly made his comments within the context of a THS.
There are always exceptions to what a THS is. All we can discuss what is generally true most of the time. Like for any topic, if we get caught up in the one-offs, it only promotes confusion.
What's generally true is that house shots are defined by lateral friction on the lanes. When you have free hook to the left or right, you don't need excessive surface on the bowling ball to be successful. In fact, I'd argue it's counterproductive in most cases. But to each his own.
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Too many assumptions. So because the outsides are drier for anyone to have surface at 1000 or lower is wrong and they are a hack? (As previously mentioned)
We aren't concerned about their style of bowling, what ball they are throwing, or where they are at on the lane?
That's radical
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Too many assumptions. So because the outsides are drier for anyone to have surface at 1000 or lower is wrong and they are a hack? (As previously mentioned)
We aren't concerned about their style of bowling, what ball they are throwing, or where they are at on the lane?
That's radical
What are the 'assumptions' of which you speak?? It's really pretty simple. On most THS's, drier outsides = free hook. You don't need 500-1000 grit surfaces to bounce a ball to the pocket. So why go to more extreme surfaces that has far more downside than up?
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Again too many like to make blanket statements of so-called named conditions...
I bowled league on a heavy wet/dry condition....I was taught to follow the oil/conditioner as it'll minimize transition issues...well there was over 100 units in the middle...how would you recommend playing that condition? The dry/friction area was 4 units...
I'm sorry too many making assumptions on how conditions should be played eliminating the true variables is slanderish as well as extremely harmful...
Social media is going to be the final decline of competitive bowlers improving...too many know-it-nothing's
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Just like real fake stores on Facebook that many ppl believe are true. Social media does have its drawbacks in learning things. Ppl tend to forget the real world experiences and believe the water in the pot is hot.
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Again too many like to make blanket statements of so-called named conditions...
I bowled league on a heavy wet/dry condition....I was taught to follow the oil/conditioner as it'll minimize transition issues...well there was over 100 units in the middle...how would you recommend playing that condition? The dry/friction area was 4 units...
I'm sorry too many making assumptions on how conditions should be played eliminating the true variables is slanderish as well as extremely harmful...
Social media is going to be the final decline of competitive bowlers improving...too many know-it-nothing's
Ric, there are greater dangers in taking things to the extremes, like what's bolded above. There is nothing "typical" about bowling on 100 units in the middle.
As you know, I'm far from being a touring professional. But at the scratch level, I've averaged a THS 230+ enough and have won enough sport shot tournaments to understand the basics of patterns and transitions.
Instead of subtle insults, maybe someone can explain the value in throwing 500-1000 grit on what most of us understand to be a THS…..
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Really two issues here. My original point pertained to throwing extremely dull surfaces that wear out the lane surface prematurely. I felt the same way about particle equipment when it was in vogue. My other point was that on almost any house shot I have seen, including those with a total puddle in the middle there is really no benefit from throwing super dull surfaces. All you do is blow the heads up and force everyone to loop the ball even wider around the oil. Learning to square up and get the ball into a roll is much more effective than blowing up the pattern be it a house shot or long tournament pattern.
Look at how the guys play the badger on the show. With the exception of the guy who tried to force everyone into lofting the gutter cap a couple of years ago, the best bowlers play pretty straight with moderate surfaces on super long patterns.
I know some of this comes from teams at nationals trying to quickly burn some bump into the pattern to their advantage. I have no problem with the tactic, I just believe equipment should be tamed down enough so that such a tactic isn't quickly beneficial. Probably too much of a purist am I, but I feel that the game is better if players have to learn how to play the pattern that is put out rather than blowing it up in no time in to something they prefer.
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I've explained numerous times that as soon as the pundents quit worrying abt the name and more so concentrating on the condition in front of them and how the ball is responding instead of what is blanketed on how a 'pattern' is supposed to be played or attacked plus a prescribed surface...each individual situation should be just that INDIVIDUAL
ANd quite honestly that condition 100 units in the middle is not as uncommon as you may think...
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Again too many wanting to place so much precedence to what they see on TV....bowl in the real world not one you want to...reality vs perception is a huge battle
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It's one thing to offer a possible perspective of a situation but blanketing it as 'gospel' is the point I'm trying to make...
I did a ball motion class not long ago and we used the Soul as the demo ball...we had a multiple of players & types...I added surface from 4000 to 500 to create the desired motion...this was the bowl's house shot...there was volume in the middle and friction outside...all the situations improved and enhanced each players reaction
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If you are a speed dominant bowler surface is going to be a big benefit to you. Surface doesn't have to be on the biggest hooking ball in your bag. It could be surface on a lower/mid performance ball.
If you are rev dominant and with the dry outsides and possibly drier backends having some surface will help keep the ball from duck hooking down lane when it meets friction. 1000 grit isn't a ton of surface. It is also more versatile then you think depending on the line and the bowler.
Applying logic based on the bowler and the reaction you see on the lane is more important then regurgitating what some guy online said about there is no need for bowlers to use surface when bowling on THS...........only hacks do that. Makes a great bumper sticker.
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So Avabob,
You are saying that if a tournament puts out a shot where the pattern gives you 2 boards, and those 2 boards at on the gutter, that if you are a bowler who just cannot play that shot, they shouldn't be able to blow a hole in the pattern at 10 and play there?
Because there are bowlers who are not versatile enough to play up the one or 2 board because they never see it on a regular basis, and how would you practice it? On most house shots, that line will be 7 pin practice. So you cannot even try it in league. And most bowlers do not practice (different subject).
So tournaments try to force bowlers into their "C" & "D" games. If a bowler is smart enough to change the pattern into his "A" game, should that talent be rewarded?
Just asking questions.
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If you are a speed dominant bowler surface is going to be a big benefit to you. Surface doesn't have to be on the biggest hooking ball in your bag. It could be surface on a lower/mid performance ball.
If you are rev dominant and with the dry outsides and possibly drier backends having some surface will help keep the ball from duck hooking down lane when it meets friction. 1000 grit isn't a ton of surface. It is also more versatile then you think depending on the line and the bowler.
Applying logic based on the bowler and the reaction you see on the lane is more important then regurgitating what some guy online said about there is no need for bowlers to use surface when bowling on THS...........only hacks do that. Makes a great bumper sticker.
You can't seem to make a post without slipping in some kind of insult of innuendo. All I said was that lower grit balls are not necessary to score well on what most of us know as a THS. It doesn't mean that some bowlers can't get away with it, or use low grits in an attempt to mask flaws in their game. It's just not necessary.
I don't need a lecture from you on surfaces and their appropriate place. I have a bowling workshop where I stock and use almost every type of abrasive (pads and liquid abrasives) in existence. I do multiple PBA and sport tournaments a year, and I'll apply on my spinner any surface from 500-4000 that I think is needed to be successful.
But PBA/Sport patterns are not THS's. People really over think what they need to be successful on a house shot. There is a reason why it's been said that almost all balls look the same on a fresh THS. It's because it's true. Given this, I'll go with a higher grit equipment that won't blow up the lane and force me to make ball changes half way through the set.
So go ahead and fuss over weather you should have 500/1000 vs. 500/3000 on any given night at your local house. Whatever floats your boat.
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^^^^this shows you know what works for you^^^^as well as what suits your eye in your desired ball motion...
Again my comments are directed at generalizations in blanketing a what 'works for all' in every situation
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If you are a speed dominant bowler surface is going to be a big benefit to you. Surface doesn't have to be on the biggest hooking ball in your bag. It could be surface on a lower/mid performance ball.
If you are rev dominant and with the dry outsides and possibly drier backends having some surface will help keep the ball from duck hooking down lane when it meets friction. 1000 grit isn't a ton of surface. It is also more versatile then you think depending on the line and the bowler.
Applying logic based on the bowler and the reaction you see on the lane is more important then regurgitating what some guy online said about there is no need for bowlers to use surface when bowling on THS...........only hacks do that. Makes a great bumper sticker.
You can't seem to make a post without slipping in some kind of insult of innuendo. All I said was that lower grit balls are not necessary to score well on what most of us know as a THS. It doesn't mean that some bowlers can't get away with it, or use low grits in an attempt to mask flaws in their game. It's just not necessary.
I don't need a lecture from you on surfaces and their appropriate place. I have a bowling workshop where I stock and use almost every type of abrasive (pads and liquid abrasives) in existence. I do multiple PBA and sport tournaments a year, and I'll apply on my spinner any surface from 500-4000 that I think is needed to be successful.
But PBA/Sport patterns are not THS's. People really over think what they need to be successful on a house shot. There is a reason why it's been said that almost all balls look the same on a fresh THS. It's because it's true. Given this, I'll go with a higher grit equipment that won't blow up the lane and force me to make ball changes half way through the set.
So go ahead and fuss over weather you should have 500/1000 vs. 500/3000 on any given night at your local house. Whatever floats your boat.
You know what works for you, but lower grit can't work for others? Lower grit is "blowing up" the shot for others?
Assumptions. Depending on the Bowler, the ball, and their line surface can be a huge necessity. Just because they aren't bouncing it off the wall and using less grit doesn't mean they are doing something wrong.
When you say bowlers can use lower grits and get away with it or mask flaws that's you putting everyone into a group based off a condition they are bowling.
So bowlers with some surface are playing the pattern wrong. They must be wrong. Doesn't matter how well it works for them, they should ball down and move to the friction.
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TXbowler, you are entitled to your opinion, but my opinion is that if you don't choose
to play the pattern that is put out go ahead and fight it, but no, I don't think equipment should be able to blow up the pattern that quickly. Patterns transition, and bowlers should demonstrate the ability to adjust to transitions, rather than make the transition adjust to them. Talking about higher level tournaments, not the Wednesday night commercial league
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And your opinion is yours but a person chooses how they wish to attack a condition...not by what a piece of paper tells them this is the problem with bowling...too many telling others how they should play a condition...
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First with the OP subject.
No I don't think you should be able to adjust the surface during competition. Most want to tout their arsenal so they should have something that will work on the condition. Seldom do THS shots change enough week to week to warrant surface adjustment due to a "surprise" condition.
But most peoples arsenal consist of several balls that do essentially the same thing. I saw it too many times someone would come in a buy a piece to fill a gap. Then they couldn't use it in league so they would have you adjust the surface until it reacted pretty much like all the other balls they had, but alas they could use it in league.
I'm in avabob's camp. If you are crossing pairs in a tournament competition your 500 grit pill will not open up the lane quick enough. You don't want to fight the condition or you will lose to someone who doesn't.
And I agree the equipment shouldn't be allowed to manipulate the playing field. I currently does allow it too but the game would be better off if it didn't.
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There are some good posts here. I stand with those who would prefer that bowlers learn to read their ball reaction and adjust accordingly; not just left or right, but speed also.
Bowling at higher levels, simply put, is learning how to manage friction.
Friction too late is a challenge because the ball cannot get past the "skid" phase soon enough to create optimum entry angle, etc. for that bowler.
Conversely, friction too early creates the "weak" hit because the ball has used too much energy too soon.
Speed is also very individualized. A guy with more side roll can roll it slower with success more effectively than the one with more forward roll. This too is somewhat dependent on lane condition and where each bowler finds adequate friction.
With all the variables in today's game: Lane surfaces, oil patterns, oil volumes, the 500 various balls available, not to mention the 500 different things the bowlers do to the ball (faster speed, slowing it down, more tilt, less tilt, more forward roll, less forward roll which part of the lane they attack, and so on...) it becomes essential that in order to excel you need to understand (your) ball motion and how to adjust that motion. This doesn't happen overnight, or from a class taken, but usually over many years of experience.
Sadly, we live in a world where "knowledge" is at our fingertips, or within relatively few key strokes. However wisdom (applied knowledge) cannot be obtained in seconds or minutes. Whew... ;)