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Author Topic: The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?  (Read 11951 times)

star

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The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?
« on: September 06, 2018, 04:22:23 PM »
Just been skimming through this from Mo Pinel.

I haven’t seen it before and was wondering what others thoughts are.

Some new conclusions from the new rules for weight holes.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rOOZdetR2Fs
Happy go lucky bowler from the UK.
Specs. 430rpm,18mph off hand. 11-12deg Tilt, 50-60 deg Rotation. PAP 5 1/4 by 3/4 up.
                   R.I.P.
Mo Pinel. The Guru.
Larry Matthews “The Bowling Professor”
Sawbones.
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Thanks for the FUN times.

 

Impending Doom

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Re: The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2018, 11:15:47 AM »
Sales guy pitch coming up. Avert your eyes if staffer words hurt you.

This rule couldn't come at a better time for me. 1, I hardly ever use weight holes, so I think I may just have to plug a small hole in my Booyah. Nothing else in my bag has holes.

2. I have on the way, from top to bottom, Sumo SE, Truth Tour, Dream On, 2 Tacticals, Badger, HB, Boost, Shadow Ops, After Dark Pearl. May throw a Contniuum in there as well. The big symmetricals on top were already planned out to be 4*30 because the TT seems to be better the stronger you drill it, and the core in the Sumo is a monster already.

The truths that we already knew for years and years have been there. Now, they're just being enforced by rules. We're going to see a large drop off in symmetricals and more assyms made just to get around the whole no hole rule. More lower intermediate diff core designs will pop up (.008 to .012) and that will become the way of things. In our camp, I wouldn't be opposed to seeing the Missing Link core come back. Bump up the intermediate diff and have a pretty handy low end ball.

Guys like Mo and Nick are way too smart to let this rule stop them from getting the motion they desire.

vwDiesel

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Re: The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2018, 02:13:34 PM »
After viewing this video I think that there is a value-added marketing opportunity here for ball companies and PSOs.

If Radical (or any ball manufacturer) can convince bowlers that, under the new rules, knowing their PAP and axis tilt specs are more important than ever, than they should offer the service of measuring those specs as part of a ball purchase ... or maybe as part of a demo day (for a price, of course.)

This could be used as an effort to educate bowlers about layout "myths" while also maximizing ball motion for them under the new rules.
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication."

BeerLeague

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Re: The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2018, 07:25:12 AM »
This is the exact stuff that is pushing me out of the game.  This ball, that ball, this layout, that layout, this pattern, that pattern, this surface, that surface ...... give me a freakin' break already.  I needed weightholes but now I can't have weightholes after spending $1500+ on equipment. Now I need to plug it or start over?  Somehow, someway that is going to preserve the lane condition according to the USBC in an email I received.   Who are these new rules supposed to target and what do they hope to accomplish other than running us middle-aged guys off.  (We are the ones with the money BTW ...... so the proprietors better wake up)

Address the REAL issues already !!!! 2 HANDED BOWLERS GENERATING 600RPM BLOWING APART EVERY PATTERN THEY TOUCH AND MEGA-WALLS THAT PERMIT THE USE OF HOOK MONSTERS (OR THE COMBINATION OF BOTH).   Watch the house pros throwing their Kingpin Max (or any other hook monster) over 20 in practice and you have bowling in 2018.  No wonder that patterns don't hold up and become over/under train wrecks.  Eliminate the 2 handers and mega-wall shots (taper is good but c'mon man !!) and TADA !!!!! Bowling is fixed !!  It's affordable again !!  You don't need a 4 ball roller full of the latest and greatest to take to your beer league... people can complete on a smaller budget and spend money on linage and drinks instead of $250 on something that is now illegal or "outdated" (load of B.S. - equipment will last years if properly maintained - that's a biggie for people on fixed budgets) in 6 months. 

I have been bowling for 40+ years and I am ready to pack it in.  It's not sour grapes, its not butt-hurt .... its just plain disgust.  This game basically saved my life 20+ years ago and now it's trashed.  Its a simple lack of oversight by the USBC that could be easily remedied with a few rule changes about how the GAME is played and not the equipment. 

F IT.  I'd rather tee up a Titleist anyway then spend my time in a greasy smelling bowling alley
 
« Last Edit: September 11, 2018, 07:55:38 AM by BeerLeague »

Bowl_Freak

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Re: The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2018, 08:02:11 AM »
Pin over bridge, CG in palm, discussion over. If you cant control that on 90% of THS, then you shouldn't be bowling and it take statics out of question.

Impending Doom

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Re: The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2018, 09:29:21 AM »
Bowling was screwed long before 2 handers. I wish people would stop putting the whole blame on a style. If you think that 2 handers are the problem, then you're the problem yourself. We need to demand a fair playing field and make them tougher.

Now, that's not to say make them Woody Demma tough, just make them less easy.

That reminds me, I need to go bowl some of his stuff. It's been a minute.

vwDiesel

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Re: The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2018, 09:42:31 AM »
I don't think Mo's presentation is geared toward anyone who wants to bring one ball to a THS league and bowl. Nothing in the new rules stops anyone from doing that (and having a fun night out once a week.)

I concede the point that the new rules AFFECT those THS bowlers by imposing an expense to plug their equipment. And, as I've said in other posts, when THS bowlers plug their equipment and see a little less motion they will most likely resurface their ball more aggressively and then what the hell is the point of all this?

I think Mo's presentation is for bowlers in sport shot leagues, juniors, college prep, coaches, etc., who need to know how the new USBC specs affect their game and their chance to compete. These people bowl on conditions where subtle differences do indeed affect carry percentage.

"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication."

leftybowler70

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Re: The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2018, 11:05:17 AM »
Pin over bridge, CG in palm, discussion over. If you cant control that on 90% of THS, then you shouldn't be bowling and it take statics out of question.

Agreed.

DP3

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Re: The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2018, 11:14:38 AM »
"This ball/style/pattern/rule is ruining the game"- same guys who don't bowl for money, nor practices, and has had the same average since '93


Impending Doom

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Re: The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2018, 11:25:25 AM »
"This ball/style/pattern/rule is ruining the game"- same guys who don't bowl for money, nor practices, and has had the same average since '93



House shot has ruined it. Prove me wrong lol.

BowlingForDonuts

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Re: The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2018, 11:25:49 AM »
"This ball/style/pattern/rule is ruining the game"- same guys who don't bowl for money, nor practices, and has had the same average since '93

Yep and most of the people who say make it harder for everyone live in some town of 7000 people two hour+ drive from the nearest sport pattern league and still complain.  But sure lets bend over backwards for the people who chose to live in the sticks.  Whine whine no jobs, whine whine bowling too easy.  Hint if you join civilization there are more sports pattern and scratch leagues then you can shake a stick at.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2018, 02:19:03 PM by BowlingForDonuts »
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BowlingForDonuts

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Re: The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2018, 11:42:59 AM »
"This ball/style/pattern/rule is ruining the game"- same guys who don't bowl for money, nor practices, and has had the same average since '93



House shot has ruined it. Prove me wrong lol.

House shot is the only chance you have of getting new blood into the sports side.  Sure you can lay out the US Open pattern for all open bowling but when adult males start barely beating their little kids the house ball is only ball they will ever throw and less frequently as well.
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Juggernaut

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Re: The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2018, 12:19:06 PM »
 I’ve said it before, and yes, I’ll keep on saying it.

 Bowling got far too technical. FAR too technical. Like, WAAAAY FAR too technical.


 No, I’m no longer shouting that we should “go back”, that ship has sailed. What I am saying is bowling is one of those rare things that was better in a simpler form.


 Technological improvements are good, up to a point. Past that point, it just becomes change for changes sake. Bowling actually passed that point sometime in the 1980’s.

(Yes, I like my modern car, and my refrigerator, and my connected WiFi tv. That’s not what I’m saying. What I’m talking about is, do you want a great, technologically advanced beer, or just a simple, regularly brewed one that tastes good? Me, I’ll take the good tasting one)


Now, bowling is what it is. We’ve given our “simple and innocent” sport over to technological “advances” and “improvements”, all while trying to make things better, never realizing that it was the simplicity of it that made it beautiful to begin with.

 Take it for what it’s worth. I loved bowling when I got started with my old Manhattan Rubber ball in the 1970’s, and I love it still. I just wish things hadn’t progressed the way they have. I honestly think things would have been better if things had stayed simpler.
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BowlingForDonuts

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Re: The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2018, 01:36:32 PM »
I’ve said it before, and yes, I’ll keep on saying it.

 Bowling got far too technical. FAR too technical. Like, WAAAAY FAR too technical.


 No, I’m no longer shouting that we should “go back”, that ship has sailed. What I am saying is bowling is one of those rare things that was better in a simpler form.


 Technological improvements are good, up to a point. Past that point, it just becomes change for changes sake. Bowling actually passed that point sometime in the 1980’s.

(Yes, I like my modern car, and my refrigerator, and my connected WiFi tv. That’s not what I’m saying. What I’m talking about is, do you want a great, technologically advanced beer, or just a simple, regularly brewed one that tastes good? Me, I’ll take the good tasting one)


Now, bowling is what it is. We’ve given our “simple and innocent” sport over to technological “advances” and “improvements”, all while trying to make things better, never realizing that it was the simplicity of it that made it beautiful to begin with.

 Take it for what it’s worth. I loved bowling when I got started with my old Manhattan Rubber ball in the 1970’s, and I love it still. I just wish things hadn’t progressed the way they have. I honestly think things would have been better if things had stayed simpler.

Did enjoy recently throwing the old man's Amflite MagicLine even though its a 13.3lber.  Still viable in the dry house I bowl.  Sadly at that weight going to be relegated to swing practice or when I get older than that ball is now.  Rubber hits better than polyester imo (might get heavier one someday, hit way better than my 14lb old viz-a-ball).  I do enjoy throwing the gems even if supposed to own the same just released super whiz bang ball as every other chuckle head.  Because score and $$$ = everything.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2018, 02:20:01 PM by BowlingForDonuts »
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BeerLeague

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Re: The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2018, 01:46:38 PM »
"This ball/style/pattern/rule is ruining the game"- same guys who don't bowl for money, nor practices, and has had the same average since '93



I stand by my statement. 
  • I quit bowling for money when it became a carry contest.  The 2 handed style REALLY exploits this.
  • I quit bowling for money when my local organization decided to turn its head at sport/challenge leagues being sanctioned as regular.  The USBC was advised and did NOTHING.
  • I quit bowling for money when I am forced to GIVE PINS in sweepers to local Hall of Fame inductees with averages from unsanctioned sport leagues.
  • I quit bowling for money when the city tourney puts out a sport shot and forces us to use our 220 wall shot average against HOF MEMBERS and NATIONAL TITLE HOLDERS.
  • I quit bowling for money when the same people always CROSS EACH OTHER in local and state competitions while the rest of us "donaters" are forced to deal with people just out for the experience or lack knowledge of how to play a flatter condition.

All this happens consistently and has happened multiple times.  The USBC was advised and did nothing so you can see why I think they can take their rules that will cost me money and shove them you know where.

Bowling is now recreation for me.  I'll play jackpots and bowl the occasional "fun" tourney with friends.  The other 6 people left that will have not been run off by crap rules and 2 handed B.S. can bowl each other for "real" money in their "sport".  THe proprietors can fight over their business.  They might even get a league with 3 teams in it !!

OK .......... rant over WHEW !!! :o

 
« Last Edit: September 11, 2018, 02:02:58 PM by BeerLeague »

avabob

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Re: The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2018, 01:50:52 PM »
Hi tech cores arent the problem, nor are 2 handers.  The problem is that high friction shells blow up any lane pattern too quickly.   Advancements in oils havent been able to combat sanded, or even box condition resin shells.  Polyester shells, or even urethane at 4000 grit would force players to play the pattern initially, rather than blow it up.  If a high rev player can square up enough initially until they open up, they deserve to score.