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Author Topic: The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?  (Read 11949 times)

star

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The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?
« on: September 06, 2018, 04:22:23 PM »
Just been skimming through this from Mo Pinel.

I haven’t seen it before and was wondering what others thoughts are.

Some new conclusions from the new rules for weight holes.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rOOZdetR2Fs
Happy go lucky bowler from the UK.
Specs. 430rpm,18mph off hand. 11-12deg Tilt, 50-60 deg Rotation. PAP 5 1/4 by 3/4 up.
                   R.I.P.
Mo Pinel. The Guru.
Larry Matthews “The Bowling Professor”
Sawbones.
Thong Princess.
Thanks for the FUN times.

 

Impending Doom

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Re: The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?
« Reply #46 on: September 20, 2018, 09:56:04 AM »
You know, I love this sport, and realize that I only bowl the pins. I can best anyone on any condition, if I choose to keep myself physically fit. Work out, focus on certain muscle groups, stretch accordingly when at the center, really commit. Reason I say that is because the mind is sharper than my body at this point in my life. (Never thought I'd say that at 40, but facts is facts). I KNOW when to make certain adjustments, and how to do them, but if the body can't do it, then what's my option? Quit? Bitch and moan?

There's a reason Amleto still looks like a 30 year old bowling. He's fit AF.

DP3

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Re: The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?
« Reply #47 on: September 20, 2018, 10:00:44 AM »
There's a nice chunk of pros that recommitted themselves to fitness and their careers are seeing a nice little uptick because of it. The guys keeping themselves in great shape seem to be sharper than ever in their 50s like Parker, Amleto, Pete, and Walter (who might be throwing it as good as he ever has RN). These guys stay in great shape.

HankScorpio

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Re: The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?
« Reply #48 on: September 20, 2018, 04:59:24 PM »
Hi tech cores arent the problem, nor are 2 handers.  The problem is that high friction shells blow up any lane pattern too quickly.   Advancements in oils havent been able to combat sanded, or even box condition resin shells.  Polyester shells, or even urethane at 4000 grit would force players to play the pattern initially, rather than blow it up.  If a high rev player can square up enough initially until they open up, they deserve to score.

The PWBA tour don't blow patterns up near as fast as the PBA tour, using the same equipment and just as much, if not more surface. That's just a fact.

Their rev rates don't force them in near as much, leveling of the depletion throughout the lane.

Using the two handed style creates more players using a higher rev rate than what people would have if they had to take the time to learn to curve it a lot traditionally. It's like finding a cheat code for a video game to take you to level 20 in an instant.

Creating power has always been a cheat code on house shots, two handed or one.  That said, I know very very few local two handers that compete at a high level on challenging patterns. The majority get exposed, and the ones that don't are guys that work just as hard on their game as the one handers.

There is no cheat code to getting better at bowling. Taking advantage of patterns that are DESIGNED to be taken advantage of is simple efficiency. But challenging conditions quickly separate the bowlers from the throwers. 

Don't like bowlers that take advantage of their environment? Find another environment. Just like two handers, I know exactly what conditions give me an advantage, and I seek those tournaments out. If there are no situations where you have an advantage, the only person to blame is you.

Ed at C and R

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Re: The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?
« Reply #49 on: September 21, 2018, 07:18:06 PM »
i remember 45 years when a young kid showed up on tour, they said he threw the ball to hard, jerked thru the shot to much, hooked half the lane (that was a lot back then) and would never be consistent enough to make it on tour. Mark Roth was just able to do what no one else could do, proved it worked and the "haters" hated.

I'll be the first to admit I complain about two handers as much as anyone, but, if i could throw it like them I would! The game is evolving and like it or not, some of us are going to be left behind. Yeah, sucks to get old.

FWIW, back in the day, as hard as we tried, my friends and i could never do what Roth did either. Same situation, different era.

avabob

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Re: The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?
« Reply #50 on: September 22, 2018, 04:30:15 PM »
All about environment.   Lane finishes were getting harder in the late 60's, capped by the introduction of ultra hard epoxy astro lane. The result was that lanes started to break down in the heads first rather than down lane in  the track.  Roths extreme speed loft and turn took the heads out of play better than anyone else could with more traditional stroker styles.  The further trend to shorter oil patterns and extreme dry back ends didnt hurt Roth at all, but paved the way for the next generation of cup wristed out and back power players. 
« Last Edit: September 22, 2018, 04:32:02 PM by avabob »

tommygn

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Re: The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?
« Reply #51 on: September 24, 2018, 08:45:23 AM »
Hi tech cores arent the problem, nor are 2 handers.  The problem is that high friction shells blow up any lane pattern too quickly.   Advancements in oils havent been able to combat sanded, or even box condition resin shells.  Polyester shells, or even urethane at 4000 grit would force players to play the pattern initially, rather than blow it up.  If a high rev player can square up enough initially until they open up, they deserve to score.

The PWBA tour don't blow patterns up near as fast as the PBA tour, using the same equipment and just as much, if not more surface. That's just a fact.

Their rev rates don't force them in near as much, leveling of the depletion throughout the lane.

Using the two handed style creates more players using a higher rev rate than what people would have if they had to take the time to learn to curve it a lot traditionally. It's like finding a cheat code for a video game to take you to level 20 in an instant.

Creating power has always been a cheat code on house shots, two handed or one.  That said, I know very very few local two handers that compete at a high level on challenging patterns. The majority get exposed, and the ones that don't are guys that work just as hard on their game as the one handers.

There is no cheat code to getting better at bowling. Taking advantage of patterns that are DESIGNED to be taken advantage of is simple efficiency. But challenging conditions quickly separate the bowlers from the throwers. 

Don't like bowlers that take advantage of their environment? Find another environment. Just like two handers, I know exactly what conditions give me an advantage, and I seek those tournaments out. If there are no situations where you have an advantage, the only person to blame is you.

10 and 12 year old kids can create more rev rate throwing it two handed. They CANNOT rev it that way, if they threw it traditionally without lots of practice and time put forth. It's just plan facts.

Cheat code.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying they are cheating as there is nothing in the rules against doing it, just as there are nothing in the rules about using a cheat code in a video game. But denying the facts, is disingenuous.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 09:57:58 AM by tommygn »
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Skip H

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Re: The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?
« Reply #52 on: September 24, 2018, 09:19:00 AM »
Tommy,

Hoping the cheat code on our January pattern will be up 8 board with a Slate U-dot, Yellow dot or Angle.  Might have another option or two that I have been waiting for decades to toss again.  :)

tommygn

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Re: The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?
« Reply #53 on: September 24, 2018, 09:58:32 AM »
It will be interesting for sure!
God creates us with a blank canvas, and the "picture" we paint is up to us. Paint a picture you like and love!

DP3

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Re: The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?
« Reply #54 on: September 24, 2018, 01:30:07 PM »
Wow, who called the fun police? These damn 10 year olds, their weak bones, and scrawnny little hands. Who do they think they are, revving the piss out of it to shoot 170 with 8 strikes in a Saturday morning youth league.

Someone, quick.... snatch the accomplishment from this little cheater while we're at it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwprwsEK2q8


....14lb plastic ball with only 2 holes in it btw.

tommygn

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Re: The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?
« Reply #55 on: September 24, 2018, 02:27:25 PM »
Wow, who called the fun police? These damn 10 year olds, their weak bones, and scrawnny little hands. Who do they think they are, revving the piss out of it to shoot 170 with 8 strikes in a Saturday morning youth league.

Someone, quick.... snatch the accomplishment from this little cheater while we're at it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwprwsEK2q8


....14lb plastic ball with only 2 holes in it btw.

Opinionated hyperbole, that really adds to the topic.  Have any real facts to add to supplement your opinion?
God creates us with a blank canvas, and the "picture" we paint is up to us. Paint a picture you like and love!

tommygn

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Re: The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?
« Reply #56 on: September 24, 2018, 02:29:20 PM »
Can't have it both ways. Can't call something "athletic" when it's the very way, as you described, a scrawny little 10 year old, can do it.
God creates us with a blank canvas, and the "picture" we paint is up to us. Paint a picture you like and love!

Impending Doom

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Re: The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?
« Reply #57 on: September 24, 2018, 02:46:44 PM »
LEFT HANDED AND TWO HANDED? JUST GIVE HIM ALL THE TITLES NOW!

I remember when bowling was fun for me too!

DP3

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Re: The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?
« Reply #58 on: September 24, 2018, 03:07:06 PM »
LEFT HANDED AND TWO HANDED? JUST GIVE HIM ALL THE TITLES NOW!

That throne belongs to the GOAT, King Jesper!

DP3

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Re: The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?
« Reply #59 on: September 24, 2018, 03:46:02 PM »
Can't have it both ways. Can't call something "athletic" when it's the very way, as you described, a scrawny little 10 year old, can do it.

There's a bunch of scrawny 10 year old football, basketball, track & field, baseball, wrestling, jiu-jitsu, volleyball, lacrosse, hockey players (And Bowlers Shocker!) that are much more athletic than most adults.

Where the hell do you think athleticism comes from? From the big Sky-Daddy upstairs? LOL..... It comes from repeating athletic motions that grow fast twitch muscle fibers from a young age. Some call it exercise, some call it practice.

....sorry for the masked vulgarity, I was triggered like a two handed bowler throwing messenger 6 pairs away from me.

And to finish the two handed point that it always comes back to... There's good two handers and there's bad two handers. The people saying "two handed bowling is ruining the sport" or "it's cheating" are solely focused on the success of 5-10 outliers that make up 0.00025 percent of the registered USBC bowlers. Those guys might bowl with 1% of this website in 1-2 tournaments a year and there's even a greater chance that you'll cross with them, much less be affected by their lane play.

If you're worried about a future of 8 two handers to a pair on a league night with 5-man teams then, I understand. But by then, it'll be time to join the Monday Morning Holy Rollers Senior leagues.

Have fun kids! (*Unless bowling)
Follow your dreams kids! (*Unless it's to bowl like Belmo)
You can be anything you want in life if you work hard kids! (*unless you wanna be a lousy cheating 2 handed bowler)


tommygn

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Re: The New Reality of Ball Motion? Thoughts?
« Reply #60 on: September 24, 2018, 03:53:04 PM »
DP3,

Here's the crux of your argument.  A 10 year old boy will never beat LeBron James on the court. Can't say that about  bowling.  Please try again.
God creates us with a blank canvas, and the "picture" we paint is up to us. Paint a picture you like and love!