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Author Topic: The perpetual overhyping of the latest oil balls  (Read 5720 times)

bowler100

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The perpetual overhyping of the latest oil balls
« on: December 11, 2018, 12:27:22 AM »
Seriously guys, why do I keep hearing from so many bowlers in-person (including pro shop operators who know far more about bowling than I do) and on the internet about how hook monsters from the last couple of years are so much stronger than the hook monsters from about 15 to 20 years ago? My personal experience of trying out balls from both eras tell me a completely different story.

With the same exact layout and applying a fresh maroon scotch brite pad to everything, I could accurately compare the reactions of all of my bowling balls on a fresh (FLOODED) sport pattern of 29 ml and 43 feet long (solo practice session). I am relatively heavy-handed and have a lot of axis rotation as well. I tried out my Sure lock and Jackal Rising back to back standing at the 8 board and leaking it out to the 5 board. Both balls struggled to read the midlane and hooked sharply at about 45 feet resulting in an ugly wash out respectively with each ball.

I switched to the Columbia Reaction Arc and I MISSED outside my mark by a board in the OB yet the ball grabbed up to 10 feet sooner, hooked sharply and missed the head pin on the left side :o. Keep in mind that the Arc (along with everything I tested during this session) has the same exact surface prep and layout as the Sure Lock and Jackal Rising. The Arc even has more games than the other two. I switched to the Trauma Response and it grabbed another couple of feet sooner than the ARC and crossed over past the head pin with less angle. My next ball was the Track Champ. It got down the lane slightly better than the other two with an even look but it still seemed to hook significantly earlier (and more) than the Rising and Sure Lock resulting in Brooklyn hits.

The last particle ball I tried was my newly reconditioned and resurfaced (maroon pad again) Danger Zone HPH. This ball had almost exactly the same length and hook as the Rising and Sure Lock but without the ability to continue from deeper angles.  I went back to the Jackal Rising and played in the same spot as the other balls. It still got down to about 40 feet but it was actually hooking sharply to the pocket now with a bit of transition up front and in the midlane.

I continued this cycle of switching back and forth among balls (and making angular moves with my feet and target) just to see how each ball responded to the transition (it was quick with all of that surface I was throwing). The Response, Arc, and Champ where all hooking very early and crossing over after a total of two games worth of shots while the Rising and Sure Lock seemed to still get down the lane and angle to the pocket. The Danger Zone HPH still got down the lane almost as well as the Rising and Sure Lock but when it hit the dry, it would puke and start hitting like a pillow. In fact, at a certain point, the HPH would not recover at all which is fine because the HPH is naturally a hook/set type of ball.

I am not making this up; my Reaction Arc, Trauma Response, and Champ all run circles around the Sure Lock and Rising on the fresh floods and it puzzles me when I keep hearing about how these old covers are "obsolete" (meaning ineffective in this context) when they actually traction much better on the Noah's ark conditions than these new oil balls EVEN with the same exact grit.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 04:44:08 AM by bowler100 »

 

Impending Doom

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Re: The perpetual overhyping of the latest oil balls
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2018, 09:31:22 AM »
"Know it alls" though.....
Yeah, you are. I know EXACTLY what I was bowling on and I am tired of people trying to gaslighting me and misrepresenting what I said.

I get your frustrations, but there are a couple of problems here. Mainly, as northface pointed out, you're drifting a lot (I'm going to guess around 7 to 8 boards) and that doesn't help you on a longer heavier pattern.

Another thing. Why are you insisting on trying to be able to play the OB? Just because you can do it with a piece of equipment doesn't mean you should do it. Is it a comfort thing? That's where you're used to playing on the house shot, so you're trying to force it? I don't understand.

You need to play the pattern correctly and use something that is faster response downlane. It seems backwards, but that's the truth of the matter. Lots of surface if the backend is sparking, but you need the ball to read less to actually use the 17 feet of friction downlane to your advantage.

DP3

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Re: The perpetual overhyping of the latest oil balls
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2018, 09:43:50 AM »
He literally called Northface a "know it all" then turned around and agreed with Northface's blind, yet 100% correct assessment of his game. Then he bangs on his keyboard at me quoting his "know it all" comment because he knows "EXACTLY" what he's bowling on, but doesn't understand how he's throwing it. He learned/affirmed something from a "know it all".

Freaking dullards I swear.

Next topic: Topography.... Go!

« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 09:57:35 AM by DP3 »

BowlingForDonuts

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Re: The perpetual overhyping of the latest oil balls
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2018, 10:02:14 AM »
He literally called Northface a "know it all" then turned around and agreed with Northface's blind, yet 100% correct assessment of his game. Then he bangs on his keyboard at me quoting his "know it all" comment because he knows "EXACTLY" what he's bowling on, but doesn't understand how he's throwing it. He learned/affirmed something from a "know it all".

Freaking dullards I swear.

Next topic: Topography.... Go!

I find the easy way to avoid topography is not be consistent enough to notice it.
Here today.  Gone tomorrow.

DP3

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Re: The perpetual overhyping of the latest oil balls
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2018, 10:12:24 AM »

I find the easy way to avoid topography is not be consistent enough to notice it.

This is the correct approach. LOL. I love this. Kinda like bowling on a house shot.... It's a lot easier to shoot a huge set when you spray the ball and throw it like 5 different people at 5 different spots on the lane. You can't see transition if you can't repeat a shot. :)

BowlingForDonuts

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Re: The perpetual overhyping of the latest oil balls
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2018, 10:19:04 AM »

I find the easy way to avoid topography is not be consistent enough to notice it.

This is the correct approach. LOL. I love this. Kinda like bowling on a house shot.... It's a lot easier to shoot a huge set when you spray the ball and throw it like 5 different people at 5 different spots on the lane. You can't see transition if you can't repeat a shot. :)

Yep it ain't a true house hack six bagger unless at least two of them are Brooklyn.
Here today.  Gone tomorrow.

Impending Doom

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Re: The perpetual overhyping of the latest oil balls
« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2018, 10:22:10 AM »

I find the easy way to avoid topography is not be consistent enough to notice it.

This is the correct approach. LOL. I love this. Kinda like bowling on a house shot.... It's a lot easier to shoot a huge set when you spray the ball and throw it like 5 different people at 5 different spots on the lane. You can't see transition if you can't repeat a shot. :)

Yep it ain't a true house hack six bagger unless at least two of them are Brooklyn.

You guys are NEXT LEVEL!

bowler100

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Re: The perpetual overhyping of the latest oil balls
« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2018, 03:01:54 PM »
"Know it alls" though.....
Yeah, you are. I know EXACTLY what I was bowling on and I am tired of people trying to gaslighting me and misrepresenting what I said.

I get your frustrations, but there are a couple of problems here. Mainly, as northface pointed out, you're drifting a lot (I'm going to guess around 7 to 8 boards) and that doesn't help you on a longer heavier pattern.

Another thing. Why are you insisting on trying to be able to play the OB? Just because you can do it with a piece of equipment doesn't mean you should do it. Is it a comfort thing? That's where you're used to playing on the house shot, so you're trying to force it? I don't understand.

You need to play the pattern correctly and use something that is faster response downlane. It seems backwards, but that's the truth of the matter. Lots of surface if the backend is sparking, but you need the ball to read less to actually use the 17 feet of friction downlane to your advantage.
Actually, it is the complete opposite on house shots for me. I use 4000 grit on entry level reactives and play the hold in the middle. I am far more comfortable on sport because I can usually play outside even when it is not ideal.

DP3

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Re: The perpetual overhyping of the latest oil balls
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2018, 03:11:20 PM »
Are you Jesper Svensson?

bowler100

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Re: The perpetual overhyping of the latest oil balls
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2018, 03:25:05 PM »
He literally called Northface a "know it all" then turned around and agreed with Northface's blind, yet 100% correct assessment of his game. Then he bangs on his keyboard at me quoting his "know it all" comment because he knows "EXACTLY" what he's bowling on, but doesn't understand how he's throwing it. He learned/affirmed something from a "know it all".

Freaking dullards I swear.

Next topic: Topography.... Go!
You sound slightly confused my friend. He made the assumption that I was simply trying to say that older particles balls are better than the modern hook monsters. I made that clear that I do not support that view at all. Every ball has a certain level of utility for everybody.  I simply added that I have a certain habit in my game which molds how I attack the lanes and gave extra feedback on that. Those are two separate topics, DP3! No, I am not Jesper! I am a rev-dominant, high rotation bowler with lower tilt (sometimes)

northface28

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Re: The perpetual overhyping of the latest oil balls
« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2018, 09:47:58 PM »
"Know it alls" though.....
Yeah, you are. I know EXACTLY what I was bowling on and I am tired of people trying to gaslighting me and misrepresenting what I said.
Honestly, I felt this was an imprtant topic. There are special cases when it's best to have the ball read the lane super early without pushing the oil down the lane. Especially when most bowlers equate downlane motion to ball strength. Why take someone that realizes a ball that isn't looking to use all of it's energy quickly is generally a weaker ball and look to bash/ridicule them for asking a question? If anything, it's a good time to educate. Usually when I see people asking a question regarding oilers, wveryone makes them seem stupid bg drilling the concept that the new oilers hook at their toes. I understand both sides, but this could have been handled differently.

Nope, not on the Internet. This is all too familiar. This guy said he’s standing 8 going up 5, umm, what?!?!?! This rivals the “guy” that says he’s going up 1st arrow yet you watch him stand on 10, slide 21, loop the ball through 13 out to 5 and will honestly have you believe he’s going up first arrow. So if someone can’t reasonably articulate what they are doing on the lane we are all sudden supposed to believe them when it comes reviewing balls? He most likely isn’t even sliding in the same spot so its pretty much academic he’s not hitting the same spot on the lane.
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bowler100

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Re: The perpetual overhyping of the latest oil balls
« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2018, 12:55:00 AM »
"Know it alls" though.....
Yeah, you are. I know EXACTLY what I was bowling on and I am tired of people trying to gaslighting me and misrepresenting what I said.
Honestly, I felt this was an imprtant topic. There are special cases when it's best to have the ball read the lane super early without pushing the oil down the lane. Especially when most bowlers equate downlane motion to ball strength. Why take someone that realizes a ball that isn't looking to use all of it's energy quickly is generally a weaker ball and look to bash/ridicule them for asking a question? If anything, it's a good time to educate. Usually when I see people asking a question regarding oilers, wveryone makes them seem stupid bg drilling the concept that the new oilers hook at their toes. I understand both sides, but this could have been handled differently.

Nope, not on the Internet. This is all too familiar. This guy said he’s standing 8 going up 5, umm, what?!?!?! This rivals the “guy” that says he’s going up 1st arrow yet you watch him stand on 10, slide 21, loop the ball through 13 out to 5 and will honestly have you believe he’s going up first arrow. So if someone can’t reasonably articulate what they are doing on the lane we are all sudden supposed to believe them when it comes reviewing balls? He most likely isn’t even sliding in the same spot so its pretty much academic he’s not hitting the same spot on the lane.
I will have to video tape myself again, I have bowled so many years in my youth being very near-sighted (virtually blind from a far) that I never paid close enough attention to the boards I was hitting numerically. With glasses now, I can get a relatively consistent trajectory and repeat shots when I am in a zone but I have to relearn to pay attention to boards on the lane I am hitting. I do visualize the trajectory of my shot very well which is a good thing but somehow that does not translate to perceiving the board that I am hitting on the lay down point.

Trust me man, I watch very carefully when my stuff enters into the hook phase. My particle stuff doesn't have prayer to get through the heads even with far less than 320 grit on most house shots. Yet on this one particular occasion, I watched my particle stuff actually skid through the heads and grab early in the midlane while the Rising and Sure Lock were skipping the mids and hooking in a very angular fashion but doing so too far down the lane on the fresh. That would only happen on a flood.

With that being said, I think the title of this thread gave you guys the wrong impression. The Rising and Sure Lock are actually far more usable on shots with less than a flood even with extra grit added the covers. They would look better for the
vast majority of bowlers on a wider variety of conditions.

My issue wasn't actually the balls themselves but the ridiculous claims from manufacturers, pro shop operators, and bowlers alike saying that balls today are so much stronger than in the particle era which in MY understanding of "stronger" made little sense based on actually subjective emperical observation. That was why I keep asking you essentially what the hell everybody was meant by "stronger" (I guess it is a highly-subjective and relative term) A much more accurate portrayal of today's oilers compared to the oilers of the past is they are much more balanced.

leftybowler70

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Re: The perpetual overhyping of the latest oil balls
« Reply #42 on: December 13, 2018, 04:22:10 AM »
This is all simple logic; As I said earlier, SEEING IS BELIEVING!!!! Show the tape my friend, with the older, and newer pieces, and let us decide...

Problem solved!

DP3

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Re: The perpetual overhyping of the latest oil balls
« Reply #43 on: December 13, 2018, 09:41:36 AM »
I remember when I was 19, I "quit" my first legit coaching session after seeing how truly terrible I threw the ball. It was eye opening and in no way did my eyes/brain/body feel as bad as my physical game looked while I was bowling. Even with video evidence, I still refused to believe what I was seeing and it jaded me to the point that I wanted to quit.

It took 2 more years of coaching, a 4 year layoff, a comeback & more coaching, another 6 year layoff, a comeback and more coaching to be at the point where I feel and look like I have a decent, repeatable physical game. Most importantly what I look at on the lane and hit, is very close to the true pathway of the ball.

Moral of the story... it's ok to be wrong. Being Self-Aware is most important.


Impending Doom

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Re: The perpetual overhyping of the latest oil balls
« Reply #44 on: December 13, 2018, 10:05:14 AM »
Preach, bruh!

bowler100

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Re: The perpetual overhyping of the latest oil balls
« Reply #45 on: December 13, 2018, 03:14:38 PM »
This is all simple logic; As I said earlier, SEEING IS BELIEVING!!!! Show the tape my friend, with the older, and newer pieces, and let us decide...

Problem solved!
Only if they put out a pattern that heavy again! Otherwise, I would have to take up the surface to about 1000/2000 grit on everything. One thing to remember is that not all older pieces are made equal. The Sure Lock and Rising are MUCH stronger in the oil than some of the second generation particles in the Labyrinth, Matrix TPS III, and Weapon of Mass Bias. Those balls actually cleared the heads great on your medium-heavy patterns and had a much better backend than the higher load particles, but they skid too far down the lane to be used on heavy oil even with a ton of surface.

The Arc, Champ, and Response are obscenely earlier rolling than the other three particle balls mentioned above. I mean not even close! Yes, I do hoard a lot of old bowling balls. Some of them are ready to go on the chopping block!