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Author Topic: The perpetual overhyping of the latest oil balls  (Read 5784 times)

bowler100

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The perpetual overhyping of the latest oil balls
« on: December 11, 2018, 12:27:22 AM »
Seriously guys, why do I keep hearing from so many bowlers in-person (including pro shop operators who know far more about bowling than I do) and on the internet about how hook monsters from the last couple of years are so much stronger than the hook monsters from about 15 to 20 years ago? My personal experience of trying out balls from both eras tell me a completely different story.

With the same exact layout and applying a fresh maroon scotch brite pad to everything, I could accurately compare the reactions of all of my bowling balls on a fresh (FLOODED) sport pattern of 29 ml and 43 feet long (solo practice session). I am relatively heavy-handed and have a lot of axis rotation as well. I tried out my Sure lock and Jackal Rising back to back standing at the 8 board and leaking it out to the 5 board. Both balls struggled to read the midlane and hooked sharply at about 45 feet resulting in an ugly wash out respectively with each ball.

I switched to the Columbia Reaction Arc and I MISSED outside my mark by a board in the OB yet the ball grabbed up to 10 feet sooner, hooked sharply and missed the head pin on the left side :o. Keep in mind that the Arc (along with everything I tested during this session) has the same exact surface prep and layout as the Sure Lock and Jackal Rising. The Arc even has more games than the other two. I switched to the Trauma Response and it grabbed another couple of feet sooner than the ARC and crossed over past the head pin with less angle. My next ball was the Track Champ. It got down the lane slightly better than the other two with an even look but it still seemed to hook significantly earlier (and more) than the Rising and Sure Lock resulting in Brooklyn hits.

The last particle ball I tried was my newly reconditioned and resurfaced (maroon pad again) Danger Zone HPH. This ball had almost exactly the same length and hook as the Rising and Sure Lock but without the ability to continue from deeper angles.  I went back to the Jackal Rising and played in the same spot as the other balls. It still got down to about 40 feet but it was actually hooking sharply to the pocket now with a bit of transition up front and in the midlane.

I continued this cycle of switching back and forth among balls (and making angular moves with my feet and target) just to see how each ball responded to the transition (it was quick with all of that surface I was throwing). The Response, Arc, and Champ where all hooking very early and crossing over after a total of two games worth of shots while the Rising and Sure Lock seemed to still get down the lane and angle to the pocket. The Danger Zone HPH still got down the lane almost as well as the Rising and Sure Lock but when it hit the dry, it would puke and start hitting like a pillow. In fact, at a certain point, the HPH would not recover at all which is fine because the HPH is naturally a hook/set type of ball.

I am not making this up; my Reaction Arc, Trauma Response, and Champ all run circles around the Sure Lock and Rising on the fresh floods and it puzzles me when I keep hearing about how these old covers are "obsolete" (meaning ineffective in this context) when they actually traction much better on the Noah's ark conditions than these new oil balls EVEN with the same exact grit.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 04:44:08 AM by bowler100 »

 

northface28

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Re: The perpetual overhyping of the latest oil balls
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2018, 12:35:04 AM »
I don’t even know where to start here.
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DP3

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Re: The perpetual overhyping of the latest oil balls
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2018, 07:19:24 AM »
If you bowl on real patterns with newer oils, that old shit won't work.

The end.

bowler100

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Re: The perpetual overhyping of the latest oil balls
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2018, 11:13:48 AM »
If you bowl on real patterns with newer oils, that old shit won't work.

The end.
Completely wrong, they used a Kegel Flex Machine with Fire oil. It was this year's US Open so it had a serious OB unless you had a ton of ball. The "old shit" was grabbing the lane much better on the fresh. The Rising and Sure Lock looked better only after I burned in a line. I am not buy that bullshit that the older particle covers will not work on newer oils.

leftybowler70

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Re: The perpetual overhyping of the latest oil balls
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2018, 11:27:01 AM »
If you bowl on real patterns with newer oils, that old shit won't work.

The end.
Completely wrong, they used a Kegel Flex Machine with Fire oil. It was this year's US Open so it had a serious OB unless you had a ton of ball. The "old shit" was grabbing the lane much better on the fresh. The Rising and Sure Lock looked better only after I burned in a line. I am not buy that bullshit that the older particle covers will not work on newer oils.

Seriously, I would have to see in person to believe.

Impending Doom

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Re: The perpetual overhyping of the latest oil balls
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2018, 11:40:33 AM »
OK, let's break this down, shall we?

You took 3 symmetrical high load particle balls, and 1 assymetrical high load particle ball, and then 2 newer high end oilers (Don't think there's any particle in either of those) and hit them all with 320 grit scotch brite.

You're bowling on a 43 foot high volume condition (by yourself, I assume?) and you're trying to play a belly to 5 board?

So you're

1) Trying to play a part of the lane that shouldn't be played, WITH head belly.
2) Complaining about how the newer oilers you have in the bag aren't working as well as the older particle balls you have when playing a part of the lane that you shouldn't be playing.

LET'S START WITH THE OBVIOUS.

Move your feet. Your break point should be about 11 or 12 at the end of the pattern.

TOO MUCH SURFACE. TOO MUCH. TOO MUCH. (Let me repeat it for goodness sake) TOO MUCH. On a longer pattern, you need response, not the ball going all Hiroshima on the heads. So your idea to get the ball started as early as possible doesn't work on this situation. The newer oil patterns dictate that you use faster response on a longer pattern, slower response on a shorter pattern. 320 on a high load particle ball is just obscene.

So, instead of learning how to properly break down a pattern and make it a learning experience, you are just trying to play around 5 no matter what?

The newer oilers aren't supposed to hook at your toe, that way they're actually more useful as you have to move your feet and eyes and no one wants to beat you up outside for wrecking the shim. There IS a reason why particle fell out of favor...

BowlingForDonuts

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Re: The perpetual overhyping of the latest oil balls
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2018, 11:59:08 AM »
>There IS a reason why particle fell out of favor...

Not to mention crap longevity.  Its great his old school particle balls still do their job but buying 2nd hand old particle balls off the internet is an easy way to overpay for a spare ball.  Will admit had zero issues with old Visionary particles so far (other than yeah they being of limited use on THS).
Here today.  Gone tomorrow.

don coyote

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Re: The perpetual overhyping of the latest oil balls
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2018, 12:45:27 PM »
I have to disagree with some of the comments above. I still use a Yeah Baby when I am looking for something to combat over/under. I still use the ball when I go to tournaments. Honestly, it has become my benchmark ball. I do have newer balls for floods, but I only see a flood at 1 tournament I consistently go to. Most of the time I am looking for something to combat dry conditions.(Hectic, BTU Pearl and Green/Blue Centaur-thank you very much!) I started the fall season using a Trauma ER, (LOVE the smell!) and last sanctioned 300 I bowled at State was using a Mega Friction 3 years ago.

I will admit the Yeah Baby does not hook like it used to 8 years ago, but it is predictable and carries very well.

DP3

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Re: The perpetual overhyping of the latest oil balls
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2018, 01:08:13 PM »
The majority of us bowl on patterns with so much friction and such high ratios that we quickly lose grasp of the reality of what we're bowling on. With that said, there's a very easy way to put this, "Old balls > New balls" argument to rest.

Every year there's a USBC Open Championships, usually played on the newest oils on a very tight & slick pattern. Report back with your scores & experience there with old equipment. You'll probably look like the confused guys in my challenge league who can't understand why the OG black widow and Zone Pros that they've never clean skid forever and hit like houseballs.




morpheus

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Re: The perpetual overhyping of the latest oil balls
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2018, 01:22:39 PM »
When you have free hook you don't need fresh covers...take away the friction and you'll see where your money went on that new ball.
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Good Times Good Times

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Re: The perpetual overhyping of the latest oil balls
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2018, 02:39:17 PM »
Just to see this in a little different light.............OP's argument to me is, essentially........."GTGT, you don't need that new Phaze II you're getting for nationals next year BECAUSE you could just drill an old Reaction ARC or a Trauma Response (or the like) and it would be exactly the same." ?

Confirm?
GTx2

ignitebowling

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Re: The perpetual overhyping of the latest oil balls
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2018, 03:41:55 PM »
With todays technology video goes a long way.

Some of the particle covers no longer used were by far the strongest. They literally had chunks of potters glass in the coverstock. They damaged lanes. Someone did an article about them and the before/after affects at nationals on the lanes.

Particle still exist on code names of additives etc in much smaller doses compared to the monsters from years past.

Most will never accept these things.  Todays equipment hasn't changed nearly as much as what manufacturers made bowlers believe it has. Would like to find a super soaker particle ball cheap from years ago to try out a video comparison with
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northface28

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Re: The perpetual overhyping of the latest oil balls
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2018, 04:22:32 PM »
If you bowl on real patterns with newer oils, that old shit won't work.

The end.
Completely wrong, they used a Kegel Flex Machine with Fire oil. It was this year's US Open so it had a serious OB unless you had a ton of ball. The "old shit" was grabbing the lane much better on the fresh. The Rising and Sure Lock looked better only after I burned in a line. I am not buy that bullshit that the older particle covers will not work on newer oils.

The lie detector has determined this is a lie. Those older high end balls hook way too early and do nothing downlane. That’s why balls like the EPX was recently used on short patternsby Barnes and O’Neill.
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northface28

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Re: The perpetual overhyping of the latest oil balls
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2018, 04:33:47 PM »
Just to see this in a little different light.............OP's argument to me is, essentially........."GTGT, you don't need that new Phaze II you're getting for nationals next year BECAUSE you could just drill an old Reaction ARC or a Trauma Response (or the like) and it would be exactly the same." ?

Confirm?

Exactly what he’s saying.
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bowler100

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Re: The perpetual overhyping of the latest oil balls
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2018, 08:28:39 PM »
If you bowl on real patterns with newer oils, that old shit won't work.

The end.
Completely wrong, they used a Kegel Flex Machine with Fire oil. It was this year's US Open so it had a serious OB unless you had a ton of ball. The "old shit" was grabbing the lane much better on the fresh. The Rising and Sure Lock looked better only after I burned in a line. I am not buy that bullshit that the older particle covers will not work on newer oils.

The lie detector has determined this is a lie. Those older high end balls hook way too early and do nothing downlane. That’s why balls like the EPX was recently used on short patternsby Barnes and O’Neill.
What is the lie? I am telling you everything straight.