BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: TWOHAND834 on February 07, 2020, 03:09:03 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5nhjZLF6nU
This is a great demonstration on the difference between the 2. This is why I usually prefer the short pin layout. It seems to give more continuation more consistently whereas the urethane seems to almost quit at times as the Squatch splits the 8-9 whereas the urethane has some deflection to it. There are some slow motion shots and even overlay with both balls to really see the difference.
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What type of coverstocks should be used to short pin?
Polished, pearls, sanded solids? Lower end or higher end equipment?
I was wondering if getting a sanded symmetric solid ball that rolls early would be overkill with a short pin drilling? Like a Phaze II or a Squatch solid or a Motiv Forge?
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How does that 2" pin Squatch look on a 32-33' pattern?
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How does that 2" pin Squatch look on a 32-33' pattern?
I wouldnt a ball of that strength on a 32 foot pattern even if it was a short pin. If I am going to use a short pin ball on a pattern that short then I am using something entry level like a Twist or Messenger and even then the pattern may be too short. I am not saying there isnt a spot for urethane. My question is this. How often are you going to be on a 32 foot pattern? Most of us are rarely going to bowl on patterns that short.
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What type of coverstocks should be used to short pin?
Polished, pearls, sanded solids? Lower end or higher end equipment?
I was wondering if getting a sanded symmetric solid ball that rolls early would be overkill with a short pin drilling? Like a Phaze II or a Squatch solid or a Motiv Forge?
You could do something like a Phaze II if the oil volume is there. With my rev rate; I dont mess with it though. I have used entry level to mid performance and even then, the mid performance ball had a lower flaring core already inside the ball similar to an IQ Tour. Also; I do not have a lot of axis tilt as my PAP is 5.5 over x 1/2 up. So I need balls that will still clear the fronts pretty clean so the ball isnt wanting to roll at my feet.
In regards to surface; I typically go with 4000 and no polish to 4000 and Factory Finish Polish since I am slightly rev dominate as I have gotten older. I turn 47 in a couple months but can still get to 18-19 mph at my release when I used to be 20-21 at release.
Honestly I have not tried the layout on a pearl covered ball. I have only used solid symmetric balls as solids typically are smoother than pearls and I am looking for ultimate control. There are control pearls out there like an Emerald IQ. But generally I like to stay with a lower end solid symmetric.
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How does that 2" pin Squatch look on a 32-33' pattern?
I wouldnt a ball of that strength on a 32 foot pattern even if it was a short pin. If I am going to use a short pin ball on a pattern that short then I am using something entry level like a Twist or Messenger and even then the pattern may be too short. I am not saying there isnt a spot for urethane. My question is this. How often are you going to be on a 32 foot pattern? Most of us are rarely going to bowl on patterns that short.
The point is where most "pros" use urethane are on short patterns with high friction down lane. Low volume and shorter distance patterns urethane is a great option. Reactive with short or really long pins are going to be far more reactive. Watching people use urethane on most house conditions doesnt look good.
I saw the pros do it on tv and my proshop guy recommended it for me on drier conditions. Typically what we hear.
As you mentioned since most don't bowl on those kinds of conditions most will never need urethane or likely have much success with it. If your left handed its a different story
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How does that 2" pin Squatch look on a 32-33' pattern?
I wouldnt a ball of that strength on a 32 foot pattern even if it was a short pin. If I am going to use a short pin ball on a pattern that short then I am using something entry level like a Twist or Messenger and even then the pattern may be too short. I am not saying there isnt a spot for urethane. My question is this. How often are you going to be on a 32 foot pattern? Most of us are rarely going to bowl on patterns that short.
Don't confuse short pattern with low volume. Stronger balls can come into play often on shorter patterns because they'll burn energy and/or there's a higher volume of oil.
We just had a 37' pattern with 30 mls. Everything strong was in play because of the volume and a lower friction lane surface.
Next month we have a 42' pattern with only 17 mls. I wish I had something like a Twist or Messenger for it
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How does that 2" pin Squatch look on a 32-33' pattern?
I wouldnt a ball of that strength on a 32 foot pattern even if it was a short pin. If I am going to use a short pin ball on a pattern that short then I am using something entry level like a Twist or Messenger and even then the pattern may be too short. I am not saying there isnt a spot for urethane. My question is this. How often are you going to be on a 32 foot pattern? Most of us are rarely going to bowl on patterns that short.
Don't confuse short pattern with low volume. Stronger balls can come into play often on shorter patterns because they'll burn energy and/or there's a higher volume of oil.
We just had a 37' pattern with 30 mls. Everything strong was in play because of the volume and a lower friction lane surface.
Next month we have a 42' pattern with only 17 mls. I wish I had something like a Twist or Messenger for it
I completely understand that and do not confuse the two. Longer patterns are typically lower volume and vice versa. That is why on patterns like Cheetah you can still use mid to high performance balls based on your ball speed. Plus, bowlers with faster ball speeds can get away with using resin on some shorter patterns. EX: Eugene McCune setting the record for highest pin fall on the Cheetah pattern back in 2010. He averaged 274 for 9 games which is ridiculous. I also am pretty sure I remember Mika using a Stinger Low Flare on TV on that same pattern. But now since urethane has made a comeback; it has become the popular choice by the pros on that pattern as well as other shorter patterns.
What some bowlers may not understand, is that when urethane was the dominate surface on bowling balls 30 years ago; oil patterns were in that 30-32 foot range and even shorter at times if you bowled a tournament. As resin came on to the scene; the patterns had to be lengthened to make them usable.
I will never forget the first time I saw resin on TV. Pete McCordic rolled a shot and the ball went sideways the last 15 feet before striking. My first thought was, "What the hell was that?!" That ball was the famous Excalibur.
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How does that 2" pin Squatch look on a 32-33' pattern?
I wouldnt a ball of that strength on a 32 foot pattern even if it was a short pin. If I am going to use a short pin ball on a pattern that short then I am using something entry level like a Twist or Messenger and even then the pattern may be too short. I am not saying there isnt a spot for urethane. My question is this. How often are you going to be on a 32 foot pattern? Most of us are rarely going to bowl on patterns that short.
Don't confuse short pattern with low volume. Stronger balls can come into play often on shorter patterns because they'll burn energy and/or there's a higher volume of oil.
We just had a 37' pattern with 30 mls. Everything strong was in play because of the volume and a lower friction lane surface.
Next month we have a 42' pattern with only 17 mls. I wish I had something like a Twist or Messenger for it
Let’s go this route. What pros and others use urethane for is not the conditions most on here or bowlers in general bowl on and typically are mis-using it. Urethane is a small market.
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Oil length was actually mandated at 24 feet, unless flat oiled prior to 1989.
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How does that 2" pin Squatch look on a 32-33' pattern?
I wouldnt a ball of that strength on a 32 foot pattern even if it was a short pin. If I am going to use a short pin ball on a pattern that short then I am using something entry level like a Twist or Messenger and even then the pattern may be too short. I am not saying there isnt a spot for urethane. My question is this. How often are you going to be on a 32 foot pattern? Most of us are rarely going to bowl on patterns that short.
Don't confuse short pattern with low volume. Stronger balls can come into play often on shorter patterns because they'll burn energy and/or there's a higher volume of oil.
We just had a 37' pattern with 30 mls. Everything strong was in play because of the volume and a lower friction lane surface.
Next month we have a 42' pattern with only 17 mls. I wish I had something like a Twist or Messenger for it
Let’s go this route. What pros and others use urethane for is not the conditions most on here or bowlers in general bowl on and typically are mis-using it. Urethane is a small market.
I agree 100%.
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I know its out of this context but urethane as a spare ball is perfectly reasonable. Urethane is fun in practice too. But when you need to score on house yeah not so much. Pretty surprising to me how much better my polished Slingshot carries compared even to my Purple Hammer and Covert Tank in a lighter house I bowl in. On house shot answer is almost always reactive.
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Urethane can be a great option for spares.
I always take a Columbia Beast urethane with me to practice to work on playing first arrow and out. If there is not enough oil then I use plastic. This way when I do bowl events that force you out there Im ready.
Watching so many people trying to throw urethane laying the ball down on 20 or 25 and swing it is just funny. Flat 10s followed by 2-8 and 2-8-10s for days.
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Watching so many people trying to throw urethane laying the ball down on 20 or 25 and swing it is just funny. Flat 10s followed by 2-8 and 2-8-10s for days.
Same can be said for the person who insists on throwing their UFO on a wood surface across the middle trying to cover all 40 boards (and shooting 150) .... I gotta deal with that too....
If more people would drill the right stuff instead of buying the next new shiny object everyone says you need, we all might see scores go up and have more fun in the process. I HATE to say it, but too many bowlers have no clue about equipment or lane play.
For example: My PSO told me about the 2 handed kid who came in insisting on a Phase 3 ... so he drilled it for him... and the kid came back complaining about it because it wasn't earlier than his ProMotion :o -- I mean .. what do you say to that?
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Watching so many people trying to throw urethane laying the ball down on 20 or 25 and swing it is just funny. Flat 10s followed by 2-8 and 2-8-10s for days.
Same can be said for the person who insists on throwing their UFO on a wood surface across the middle trying to cover all 40 boards (and shooting 150) .... I gotta deal with that too....
If more people would drill the right stuff instead of buying the next new shiny object everyone says you need, we all might see scores go up and have more fun in the process. I HATE to say it, but too many bowlers have no clue about equipment or lane play.
For example: My PSO told me about the 2 handed kid who came in insisting on a Phase 3 ... so he drilled it for him... and the kid came back complaining about it because it wasn't earlier than his ProMotion :o -- I mean .. what do you say to that?
+1000000
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Watching so many people trying to throw urethane laying the ball down on 20 or 25 and swing it is just funny. Flat 10s followed by 2-8 and 2-8-10s for days.
Same can be said for the person who insists on throwing their UFO on a wood surface across the middle trying to cover all 40 boards (and shooting 150) .... I gotta deal with that too....
If more people would drill the right stuff instead of buying the next new shiny object everyone says you need, we all might see scores go up and have more fun in the process. I HATE to say it, but too many bowlers have no clue about equipment or lane play.
For example: My PSO told me about the 2 handed kid who came in insisting on a Phase 3 ... so he drilled it for him... and the kid came back complaining about it because it wasn't earlier than his ProMotion :o -- I mean .. what do you say to that?
As a proshop employee you can try and ask questions to better help someone select the better option for their style and conditions….. But if they say they want balL X, Y, or Z good luck convincing them otherwise most of the time
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How does that 2" pin Squatch look on a 32-33' pattern?
I wouldnt a ball of that strength on a 32 foot pattern even if it was a short pin. If I am going to use a short pin ball on a pattern that short then I am using something entry level like a Twist or Messenger and even then the pattern may be too short. I am not saying there isnt a spot for urethane. My question is this. How often are you going to be on a 32 foot pattern? Most of us are rarely going to bowl on patterns that short.
The point is where most "pros" use urethane are on short patterns with high friction down lane. Low volume and shorter distance patterns urethane is a great option. Reactive with short or really long pins are going to be far more reactive. Watching people use urethane on most house conditions doesnt look good.
I saw the pros do it on tv and my proshop guy recommended it for me on drier conditions. Typically what we hear.
As you mentioned since most don't bowl on those kinds of conditions most will never need urethane or likely have much success with it. If your left handed its a different story
What do you mean by it being a different story for lefty’s?
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As a former PSO; that gets difficult at times. Crazy how many people run to pro shops because they watched a telecast and saw a tour player bowl well with a particular ball. Wonder how many Prisms were sold after TJ shot 300 on TV. Same could be said about Pitch Blacks and Purple Hammers after Jesper and Jakob had monster seasons.
All a PSO can really do is educate the customer and try and point them in the right direction. But ultimately it is the customer spending the money.
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How does that 2" pin Squatch look on a 32-33' pattern?
I wouldnt a ball of that strength on a 32 foot pattern even if it was a short pin. If I am going to use a short pin ball on a pattern that short then I am using something entry level like a Twist or Messenger and even then the pattern may be too short. I am not saying there isnt a spot for urethane. My question is this. How often are you going to be on a 32 foot pattern? Most of us are rarely going to bowl on patterns that short.
The point is where most "pros" use urethane are on short patterns with high friction down lane. Low volume and shorter distance patterns urethane is a great option. Reactive with short or really long pins are going to be far more reactive. Watching people use urethane on most house conditions doesnt look good.
I saw the pros do it on tv and my proshop guy recommended it for me on drier conditions. Typically what we hear.
As you mentioned since most don't bowl on those kinds of conditions most will never need urethane or likely have much success with it. If your left handed its a different story
What do you mean by it being a different story for lefty’s?
Lefty's see less transition so they do not have to get deep with urethane generally. If they are high rev they can play the twig and go around the pattern ala Buttruff and still carry for an entire session. Belmo (righty) on the other hand uses reactives much more often because he has to move in and still turn the corner and carry.
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On house and even "patterns" ive seen lefties use urethane on the gutter and have a look righties wouldn't.
Watching a lefty play outside of second arrow with urethane on a house condition where the righties would be running away Brooklyn trying to play the same shot.
On "sport conditions" ive seen lefties hooking urethane off the gutter on conditions where a righty couldn't get a reactive ball to pick up out there. Ive not tried throwing urethane on those heavier conditions where lefties seem to have a look. Urethane isnt something I keep in the bag for those tournaments.
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Count me down once again for short pin. Scored a Rhino Pro purple (Brunswick's first reactive) off ebay for a good price. Little irked seller lied about weight (closer to light 16# than 15 but wow does that ball hit. Being super weak reactive along with low diff core (similar core as Faball Hammers AFAIK) super controllable even on the burn. Think going to throw it at league this week even at the heavier weight. Love my Slingshot and it hits well but man does it punish me on misses in. Also scored an OG Cuda/C for $3 plus shipping might have to try as well if Rhino doesn't work out.
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Tried that Rhino Pro purple tonight and shot second best series of the season and broke me out of slump in big way. Control of urethane and hit of reactive on light oil. Brunswick did pretty good with their first reactive imo.
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Tried that Rhino Pro purple tonight and shot second best series of the season and broke me out of slump in big way. Control of urethane and hit of reactive on light oil. Brunswick did pretty good with their first reactive imo.
The Purple Rhino Pro has a surprising good backend on dry conditions today. I have one still. It is not snappy in a modern sense but it goes very long and covers boards on dry as long as you have a lot of hand and a lot of friction of course. I would not say "control of urethane" because it rolls NOTHING like urethane but it does allow a heavy-handed bowler to move into the friction and still get length and create backend reaction in a readable manner. No slighting intended BowlingForDounts; I just believe the Purple Rhino Pro just gives a FAR different look than urethane to be honest. My AMF Black Ninja has an identical look to the Purple Rhino Pro.Very long with a strong enough backend to shape on dry lanes.
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Tried that Rhino Pro purple tonight and shot second best series of the season and broke me out of slump in big way. Control of urethane and hit of reactive on light oil. Brunswick did pretty good with their first reactive imo.
The Purple Rhino Pro has a surprising good backend on dry conditions today. I have one still. It is not snappy in a modern sense but it goes very long and covers boards on dry as long as you have a lot of hand and a lot of friction of course. I would not say "control of urethane" because it rolls NOTHING like urethane but it does allow a heavy-handed bowler to move into the friction and still get length and create backend reaction in a readable manner. No slighting intended BowlingForDounts; I just believe the Purple Rhino Pro just gives a FAR different look than urethane to be honest. My AMF Black Ninja has an identical look to the Purple Rhino Pro.Very long with a strong enough backend to shape on dry lanes.
No offense taken and I agree its a totally different shape to urethane just that it tends to not punish misses in when you get too much at the bottom which reminds of my purple hammer (Slingshot can be nasty squirty when do that). If you are willing to play straighter which is my A game don't even need a ton of hand to throw it but do need a lot of friction which this house has in spades.