BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: mrfrostee on June 09, 2017, 09:18:22 AM
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Took my daughter to my pro shop to get some work done on her bowling balls, and was told she has 3 degrees of tilt. Is there anything she/we can do to get her more tilt?
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Do you or the pro shop owner think she needs more for a reason?
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The pro shop owner did not say either way, it seems to me her ball is flat. It seems to have advantages and disadvantages. She recently competed in a Teen Masters tournament and did really well on the short pattern but struggles on longer/high volume patterns.
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Tilt and axis rotation are sometimes confused. Axis rotation refers to side roll. Tilt refers to changing the PAP thru spin. I think the pro shop guy may be confusing the two. More tilt creates more skid in oil and does not make the ball move stronger.
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The pro shop did mention that what she is experiencing is a loss of power (hopefully I remembered correctly) at the pins due to her only having 3 degrees of tilt.
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How old/strong is she and what's her approximate rev rate and PAP?
If she isn't throwing it over the holes or in a way to have a very low but large track my guess is they missed a couple of oil rings when taking that measurement.
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She is 16 years old, throws 14lbs, rev rate unknown, PAP is 4&5/8 1" up. she is small and throws the ball at about 13-13.5 as read on scoring machine.
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Does she comes out the back of the ball? Does she hit the ball at the back of the swing? Or does she roll the ball sideways? (Side roll) This will also give a idea of how she rolls the ball.
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Her "loss of power" is being a small 16 yo girl, throwing a 14 lb ball at 13 mph with probably a low rev rate. Teach her how to line up high flush.
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Also, how does she struggle on longer/high volume patterns?
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On longer/high volume patterns there is no movement (understand on high volume won't see a ton of movement anyway) and no power when she hits pocket, leaves 8-10s, 5-10s.
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Tilt refers to changing the PAP thru spin.
Changing axis tilt does not necessarily change the PAP location. Tilt is dependent only on the diameter of the initial track. Any PAP location can have many concentric track rings with different diameters and axis tilts. However, PAPs with smaller horizontal components do tend to have larger axis tilts (smaller track diameters). -- JohnP
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If she has movement on the short pattern and not the long it is from lack of revolutions, not the low tilt. Expectations need to be realistic about what a person is physically able to do.
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.Tilt refers to changing the PAP thru spin.
Changing axis tilt does not necessarily change the PAP location. Tilt is dependent only on the diameter of the initial track. Any PAP location can have many concentric track rings with different diameters and axis tilts. However, PAPs with smaller horizontal components do tend to have larger axis tilts (smaller track diameters). -- JohnP
Even for someone who isn't into deep with technical stuff, that puzzled me when I read "Tilt refers to changing the PAP thru spin."
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She is 16 years old, throws 14lbs, rev rate unknown, PAP is 4&5/8 1" up. she is small and throws the ball at about 13-13.5 as read on scoring machine.
These PAP numbers indicate that she does have tilt. And if she is rolling the ball forward and not circling the ball very much, that would explain her ability to hit a short pattern and have trouble with longer patterns or higher volume patterns.
As she continues to bowl, good coaching and practice techniques will allow her to sharpen her game. If she has good timing, she can incorporate more foot speed to raise her ball velocity without more effort. For those of you who have seen Carolyn Dorin-Ballard bowl, she would be a great example of using what she has to great effect.
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I have low tilt at 7* and struggle in my second shift league with low volume and somewhat shorter patterns. Or even bowling on the world patterns that were less than 35' fresh I have to increase my tilt just to get down further.
Those "spinners" in my second shift league have success when the right sides are blown and heads are gone.
There is a guy (232 ave.) who has the skill to "kill there rev rate" in order stay on the track when it gets fried - all he plays is up the boards, never ever inside. Your daughter prolly has low rev rate and has success on dry or shorter patterns but struggle on longer ones.
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She is 16 years old, throws 14lbs, rev rate unknown, PAP is 4&5/8 1" up. she is small and throws the ball at about 13-13.5 as read on scoring machine.
These PAP numbers indicate that she does have tilt. And if she is rolling the ball forward and not circling the ball very much, that would explain her ability to hit a short pattern and have trouble with longer patterns or higher volume patterns.
As she continues to bowl, good coaching and practice techniques will allow her to sharpen her game. If she has good timing, she can incorporate more foot speed to raise her ball velocity without more effort. For those of you who have seen Carolyn Dorin-Ballard bowl, she would be a great example of using what she has to great effect.
Tilt cannot be assumed based on PAP. If she had a very strong release she could have that PAP and low tilt, an example is someone with a release like Mike Fagan, who's pap is more in the 3x1 range if I remember correctly. Probably not the case here, as I have never seen a small 16 yo girl at 13 mph throw it like that,but definitely possible.
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I agree that it is possible, but I would be happy to bet a friendly beer that, while possible, the likelihood of her PAP specs not having much tilt is near zero. The strength and mechanics required to generate a release like Mike Fagan or Ryan Shafer would be very unusual for someone her age.
Given your experience and exposure to many styles, what is your best guess, just as a mental exercise? I'll start the bidding. I'm going to put her in the 30-35 degree range.
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I was born at night, but not last night. I wouldn't bet on something I've already explained is probably not the case. All I stating is that PAP numbers and tilt numbers are independent of each other.
More than likely she spins it like a top and has a rev rate around 175, the ball never hooks or reads the lane, especially considering she bowls better on the short patterns.
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Here is a video of her
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Her release has no leverage. She turns her hand early and is on top of the ball when she lets it go.
There are some drills in the first half of this video that she could do to get her hand in a better position. Don't try to have her do it using a full approach, it's not going to work. Have her try the drills, especially the foul line and one step. Notice the hand position in the video compared to your daughter's video. I like this video because it's a girl and she won't be able to use the excuse that it's a guy doing the drills. Just don't expect her to be as good as Verity....yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkTlhzoTGmc
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I have been having her toss/roll the ball on the couch here at home. I told her it is going to take a while to retrain her muscle memory and when we make it to the lanes to do foul line drills. I am hopeful it all comes together. Thanks