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Author Topic: Topic locked...what a joke  (Read 26431 times)

12XSECH

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Topic locked...what a joke
« on: January 16, 2016, 01:09:23 PM »
What happened? Someone got their feelings hurt? Can't discuss the lousy Usbc here? I wouldn't care if they folded. Another sanctioning group will take over. People act like we need them, they need us and that's how it works. A member suggested to them to raise the fee....ok..what if another member suggested to lower the fee? Give me a break. This is and was the worst organization that ever tan bowling. Again, its not the 5 bucks, or 1 dollar..its we got nothing in the past and now they want more for doing less.
It's a joke and the joke us on the bowlers. When is the last time the Usbc inspected a lane at anyone of your locations? Case closed.

 

Juggernaut

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Re: Topic locked...what a joke
« Reply #46 on: January 25, 2016, 10:36:51 AM »
Are people seriously whining about 5$? How much do you spend in Alcohol at a bowling alley during league? Have on less drink on one night and you got your 5$

 Why yes, yes they are.

$200 a ball for several balls?  No problem.
$150 for shoes? No problem.
$200 for a bag to carry your 5 $200 balls? No problem.
$20 a week to get in brackets? No problem
$20 a week to get into high pots? No problem.
$5 a YEAR to support the bowling organization at a sustainable level? NOW it's a problem.

[sarcasm]
 $5? Are you crazy? How DARE they ask me for $5 to help support them in their endeavours that I don't know exactly what they want it for and exactly what they're doing with it!

 Geez, they're already robbing us blind with that $10 thing, and now they want $5 more? I don't think I can afford that much for the nothing they do for me.[/sarcasm]

 
« Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 10:40:14 AM by Juggernaut »
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mainzer

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Re: Topic locked...what a joke
« Reply #47 on: January 25, 2016, 10:49:13 AM »
Nailed it on the head Juggs, the hypocrisy of bowlers. Proves to me over and over again, the only problem with bowling is the bowlers themselves.
"No one runs...from the conquerer "

MainzerPower

morpheus

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Re: Topic locked...what a joke
« Reply #48 on: January 25, 2016, 11:14:07 AM »
Given the track record of the organization over the pat 20 years, I think the burden of proof is on the USBC if they want more money. They've proven to be inept in pretty much every area and there is no accountability. So yeah, I don't trust them just as you wouldn't take me at my word and send me $5 to make the sport better.
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Perfect Approach Pro Shop

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Re: Topic locked...what a joke
« Reply #49 on: January 25, 2016, 11:18:58 AM »
     Maybe USBC should try allowing membership to have a voice. If they want a dues increase, send out ballots to each and every member with proposals as to what and why they want an increase. Let the membership vote on what they want and what they don't want. Keeping us in the dark as to why they want an increase is not the right way to do business. It probably would not work as we saw how electing a president got messed up in counting votes, and sure USBC could falsify numbers in there favor, but membership should have a say to approve any increase or decrease in dues. I am all for an increase of it is helping the game, but not for an increase to give them pay raises or put into a training facility that the majority of there membership cannot access. In today's technology, no reason why they could not get a list of proposals and email a ballot to each member or even put it on their website and each member log in and gets one vote on all proposals with their USBC member ID. Any proposal that does not have 51% does not get passed.
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AlBundy33

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Re: Topic locked...what a joke
« Reply #50 on: January 25, 2016, 12:14:40 PM »
     Maybe USBC should try allowing membership to have a voice. If they want a dues increase, send out ballots to each and every member with proposals as to what and why they want an increase. Let the membership vote on what they want and what they don't want. Keeping us in the dark as to why they want an increase is not the right way to do business. It probably would not work as we saw how electing a president got messed up in counting votes, and sure USBC could falsify numbers in there favor, but membership should have a say to approve any increase or decrease in dues. I am all for an increase of it is helping the game, but not for an increase to give them pay raises or put into a training facility that the majority of there membership cannot access. In today's technology, no reason why they could not get a list of proposals and email a ballot to each member or even put it on their website and each member log in and gets one vote on all proposals with their USBC member ID. Any proposal that does not have 51% does not get passed.

I agree with this, but that would actually require an effort from the USBC. Not to add that I wonder how many members would actually take the time to go online and actually vote?
Instead of "A Future For The Sport", it really should be "A Sport Without A Future"

spmcgivern

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Re: Topic locked...what a joke
« Reply #51 on: January 25, 2016, 01:39:58 PM »
     Maybe USBC should try allowing membership to have a voice. If they want a dues increase, send out ballots to each and every member with proposals as to what and why they want an increase. Let the membership vote on what they want and what they don't want. Keeping us in the dark as to why they want an increase is not the right way to do business. It probably would not work as we saw how electing a president got messed up in counting votes, and sure USBC could falsify numbers in there favor, but membership should have a say to approve any increase or decrease in dues. I am all for an increase of it is helping the game, but not for an increase to give them pay raises or put into a training facility that the majority of there membership cannot access. In today's technology, no reason why they could not get a list of proposals and email a ballot to each member or even put it on their website and each member log in and gets one vote on all proposals with their USBC member ID. Any proposal that does not have 51% does not get passed.

There are some on here who would complain USBC wasted all that money on postage and paper for something that won't be returned by the bowlers.

ITZPS

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Re: Topic locked...what a joke
« Reply #52 on: January 25, 2016, 02:14:07 PM »
At $10, it's the cheapest annual fee for membership in any organization.  You can't even get a fishing license for $10.  You might as well be saying, "well, I want steak and lobster for $10."  Then when they can't do it and say we need more money for that, "What? Can't even provide me a meal for $10 bucks and now you want more?"  Yes.  They want more to be able to provide adequate services, which they aren't being allowed.  Sanction fees have not raised in a decade.  You know how much more expensive stuff is now?  How are they supposed to provide services with no money?  How many people here have gone a solid decade without a raise at their job or switching jobs to get a higher wage?  $10 was never enough to begin with.  I bet it takes half that just to get all your information processed and your sanction card sent back to you.  The majority of you spend more than that at the bar in just one week. 

At $10, that's 19 CENTS a week, or just under 3 CENTS a day.  You seriously expect to get something done for that? 
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morpheus

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Re: Topic locked...what a joke
« Reply #53 on: January 25, 2016, 02:26:33 PM »
Once again guys, it's not about how cheap the membership is or how little the increase is...it's about having some accountability for the way money is being spent and how that benefits growing membership and the sport of bowling. Remember this is a membership organization so where is the transparency and accountability for decisions being made? You guys just want to throw money at them without any real plan which is why bowling is in the toilet today so why will this time be different...did the same inmates running the asylum suddenly get smart?
#AFutureForMembership #WhoDoesUSBCWorkFor

Joe Cool

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Re: Topic locked...what a joke
« Reply #54 on: January 25, 2016, 04:01:04 PM »
USBC lost touch with the average bowler years ago.  They don't even know who the average bowler is any more.  Worse than that, they don't care.  They throw money at things that 90% of the bowlers don't care about like the olympics pipe dream or the women's tour.  Bowlers don't watch bowling.  They don't care if there's a women's tour, nor do they care if bowling is on TV. 

All bowling needs is a governing body.  That's it.  Manage the rules.  Take care of things like lane certifications.  We don't need to pay for Team USA.  We don't need to pay for their training center.  We don't need to pay for ads on the PBA.  Everything they've been doing to "save" the sport has done nothing.  Why are they still doing the same stuff and expecting a different result?  Scrap the organization.  They are more concerned with taking care of the elite than they are even listening to their membership.
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spmcgivern

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Re: Topic locked...what a joke
« Reply #55 on: January 25, 2016, 05:03:22 PM »
For those who are anti-USBC, can I ask how you got involved with bowling?  What brought you to the sport?

If we look at other sports to see how they managed an increase in membership we see many of the same things USBC has tried to do.  Even though a lot of people don't like the comparison, USGA (golf) and USTA (tennis) support the professional side of the sport.  They also support both men's and women's events.  They also have training centers for their respective sports.

But now, we have a portion of the bowling membership that feels these things do not support bowling in a positive way.  That these are wastes of money.  Golf membership rose significantly during times of professional personalities.  From Arnold Palmer and Jack Nicklaus to Phil Mickelson and Tiger Woods.  And the future of golf seems bright with McIlroy, Spieth and Fowler.  Tennis was the same way with Connors and McEnroe, Sampras and Agasi all the way up to now with the Williams sisters.

Without USBC providing these types of things, the participation will decrease faster than it is by far. 

The main problem with the future of bowling is the lack of participation in the organization by the youth of the sport.  Youth in the sense that delegates and the hierarchy of the organizations are retired elderly.  Not saying they are out of touch completely, but their idea of a sport may be tied to what it has always been.  If you want things to change, then you need to participate.  You need to become a local association officer.  You need to be a part of the change and not complain about the direction while continuing to bowl your once or twice a week saying nothing.

rvmark

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Re: Topic locked...what a joke
« Reply #56 on: January 25, 2016, 07:00:22 PM »
The problem is that most would rather complain than actually become involved in trying to improve, it is much easier to sit continue to say that the USBC and BPAA have brought about the decline of bowling. 

At work we always tell our team if you are going to bring up a problems you also need to bring some solutions.  In other words instead of just complaining participate in the process and help improve the situation. 

Mark

t1buck

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Re: Topic locked...what a joke
« Reply #57 on: January 25, 2016, 07:25:20 PM »
Been involved in with the local association for over 27 years. USBC has in the past ask for a dues increase and where question why they needed it and NEVER could explain what the money would be used for. Currently they only care about the top 2-3% of the membership the elite (tournament)bowlers. An have totally forgotten about the average 80-90%(league bowler). They dump the awards program and send information to the local membership saying know it is up the local to have the program (which a very high percentage cannot afford). Because we have less finance than they do.  They will not listen to the smaller association at all or for that matter the average bowler. We have not had a field rep in my area since 1993 or 95 (abc days). Last time I talk to a USBC in person was in 2005 at the meeting held in my state to explain USBC to us (the start).  They require us to run the local association has a business.  Well in business you have to take care of your customer(membership). They are also a business they have forgot about the customer. They grade the local on a few things each year. One of them is the local required championship.  Even a 1 or 2% drop is a F grade if i remember correctly. Let see the national tournament is dropping at 10-12% a year (700-800 teams, 3500-4000 people a YEAR). An they keep doing the same thing. They tell us if we are getting F grade we need to change are approach to get more people involved. They will get a big bump for the Vegas but the  next year in Reno it will be back down again. In business when you lose revenue you have to cut program that are the most costly. The first cut in awards was only a cut of $700,000 (achievement awards) then came the Honor score to once a lifetime (Nothing has been furnished on what that is costing know). Prior to once in a lifetime they budget $2-2.5 millions dollars). But they keep wasting money on the  Olympic push (never going to happen).  Team USA (mostly pros). Your average bowler DOES NOT care about all the program that USBC has that does NOT affect them directly (Awards). A push for the $5 will end up costing them more members (funds) than what they will make up with a $5 increase. The leagues will just vote to not certified or they will quit. Because only 10-20% of the  bowlers take part in tournament (certified average). An non certified league are still using the USBC rulebook.

morpheus

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Re: Topic locked...what a joke
« Reply #58 on: January 25, 2016, 08:25:42 PM »
The current system of leadership and decision making has been broken for a very long time but no one is going to fix it because if the system held people accountable we would have a very different group of people in charge. Decisions are made by the board of directors who are volunteers, no one to blame there while membership declines every year for the last two decades. My personal favorite, decisions are made by the "task force" so no one can be hold them accountable. Sorry guys, this organization needs real change, not more money to squander. The board system is ridiculously in effective and if this were a legitimate company, those making decisions at the USBC and BPAA would be fired long ago. But hey, let's throw another 4 million dollars a year their way and so they can put more logos on race cars and expand the PWBA meanwhile we have a website that's an embarrassment to the sport. Complete and total mismanagement...how about you guys look at the scoreboard for the last two decades because the USBC is 0 for 20.
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HankScorpio

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Re: Topic locked...what a joke
« Reply #59 on: January 26, 2016, 08:18:29 AM »
Am I the only one that thinks dumping money into Team USA and PWBA is a good thing?

Look, at this point, you're not going to get 30-40-50 year olds to just decide "you know what? I'm going to commit an entire year of my life to bowling." Likewise, I have friends that ski and invite me along, and at this point the maybes have turned to no, because I have no desire to spend a bunch of money on an activity I'm not sure I'll like and keep doing. That's the danger with any expensive sport, and bowling is one.

The programs that USBC runs for Team USA, olympics, PWBA, PBA, etc have nothing to do with you and aren't going to get you or any other 30-50 year old to start bowling. But it DOES have an effect on kids. Kids dream, and often go hard after sports they believe they can reach the highest level at. Gen X and Gen Y may be a wash, but we can still save the sport long term if we start the millennials into bowling early.

I can't say how it's working elsewhere, but it sure works here. Lots of youth leagues, and lots of competitive young kids going off to bowl collegiately (and for a select few, Team USA).

It's ironic that the "lazy" generation of millennials are the only demographic of bowlers that seem to want to be challenged by the sport.

morpheus

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Re: Topic locked...what a joke
« Reply #60 on: January 26, 2016, 08:50:05 AM »
I think having the PWBA is great, I just don't think the governing body of the sport should be in the business of running a professional sports organization. If the PWBA were a viable product that could stand on it's own then it wouldn't have failed in the first place. Team USA and amateur/youth events should be supported by the organization and I don't think anyone is disputing that. I think there are many conflicts of interest when the governing body of any sport is so dependent on revenue generated by running tournaments leading to decisions that may financially benefit the organization at the expense of membership. The goal of the USBC at this point is to find ways to generate more revenue from a continually shrinking membership base and there is no long-term plan to grow membership. If I had any confidence they could significantly improve the current situation I would gladly support a dues raise...but unfortunately either no one is capable or no one wants to be accountable for a plan/budget they just want money with no accountability.
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