BallReviews

General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Strokewiththelefthand on August 09, 2008, 06:28:45 AM

Title: truth about ball death
Post by: Strokewiththelefthand on August 09, 2008, 06:28:45 AM: This may have been posted before but apparently it hasn't sunk in for some and I'm tired of people wasting bandwidth complaining about death. Here is a refresher course:

1. Clean your equipment. Every set or as necessary. There is too many good cleaning supplies out there to not have a cleaner in the bag. If you don't want to buy one make one.

2.keep up the surface up to liking. If you dull a ball to 2000 it won't stay at 2000 forever. As you bowl the grooves in the dull ball smooth out and the polish on pearls wear off. Dull balls will go longer and sharp reacting pearls will smooth out.

3 make sure there is head oil or enough oil to make your ball perform at peak efficiency. No head oil to a dull ball will make it burn out. Too much oil or high volume of oil will make pearls labor.

4 don't throw dull equipment on dry lanes. It burns a friction tracks on the ball. Makes the ball extremely porous and the cover brittle causing super oil absorption and cracking. I'm tired of hearing "my cell or my widow or my ebonite ball died." I have had a black widow solid, it didn't die. A lot of my friends have the BWS and no death. I have a cell. I only throw it in oil and it hooks a lot and carries a ton. These ball were made to handle oil.

5. Balls are drill sensitive. Leverage drillings are almost a thing of the past and a big no no in big cored balls. Leverage drillings are designed to read early and hook when touching friction. That means it hooks if the friction is 45 ft down the lane or 10 ft. Aside from that they are extremely smooth. No big backend unless you have a ton of side rotation, not hand or speed. Don't drill a cell stack leverage and expect a huge backend reaction. 9/10 the ball is hooking as soon as it reaches the lane. drill the balls the way they are recommended to be for reaction you want/ as close as your driller can get it.

If anyone has anything to add, please feel free. That's my opinion. And there are some bad ball out there but realize that there are a lot of contributors to ball death that is user related rather than manufacturer.
--------------------
Formally LeftyHawse, Jim Jones.
I''m man enough to admit I stroke with the left hand and it feels good.

Mullans pro shop Richmond, Va.

J. C. Jones coaching solutions
Richmond, Va.
Title: Re: truth about ball death
Post by: Krakken on August 09, 2008, 02:47:37 PM: I have had many ebonite balls and they didn't "die" They cracked at the bridge but were still hooking the same as when I got them.

Then again, I clean them after every set and resurface them from time to time.
--------------------
Speed Kills
When in doubt, move out
Title: Re: truth about ball death
Post by: charlest on August 09, 2008, 03:24:02 PM: quote:
I have had many ebonite balls and they didn't "die" They cracked at the bridge but were still hooking the same as when I got them.

Then again, I clean them after every set and resurface them from time to time.
--------------------
Speed Kills
When in doubt, move out

Many, many people have said the same thing. Unfortunately this does not prove that all their balls will last, given the proper care. One person's experience, not even several person's experiences does/do not prove the case.

See the attempted discussion by Strider on Ebonite-poured balls in the Hammer forum. He tries to rationally discuss the matter, but does not seem to be allowed to proceed.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Unofficial Ballreviews.com FAQ (http://"http://home.mchsi.com/~s-cross-7-28-71/FAQ.htm")
Title: Re: truth about ball death
Post by: Krakken on August 09, 2008, 06:37:18 PM: I would say that you can find at least one person for every ball manufacturer out there that has had similar bad experiences.

Bowling balls are like any other product. You get great ones and you get bad ones. Balls that come out of the manufacturer right behind each other may be big time different in this situation.
--------------------
Speed Kills
When in doubt, move out
Title: Re: truth about ball death
Post by: DON DRAPER on August 09, 2008, 06:41:16 PM: i see two(2) important causes of the so-called ball death:

1) failure to use the rejuvenator or revivor to extract lane oil from the ball

2) failure to use a haus-type ball resurfacing machine

most cases of the so-called ball death can be eliminated by the regular use of these two pro shop devices. in my opinion( and many others )these two pro shop devices are the most important tools a pro shop can have.
Title: Re: truth about ball death
Post by: on August 09, 2008, 06:57:25 PM: ^^^ I agree 100%^^^

--------------------
Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Amateur Staff
Title: Re: truth about ball death
Post by: NtheDitch on August 09, 2008, 08:12:26 PM: I have a Raid that has about 150 games on it house shot.. PBA patterns.. dry lanes this ball still has just as much hook, hit, whatever anyone wants to call it. The shape of the shots I make with the ball has changed but I atribute to my changes more than the ball. But I did have a Gamebreaker that I had to bake after 20 games, and it was never the same. Luckly it paid for itself the first night in pots.
--------------------
"Don"t leave it if you can't pick it up"
Title: Re: truth about ball death
Post by: ye3hawp0ny on August 09, 2008, 08:27:08 PM: I had a Columbia Rival and I loved it until it began losing its kick. I am very careful with all of my bowling equipment and clean them rigorously each set after bowling and hot water baths every so often. I think Ebonite covers are more highly prone to coverstock and oil absorption problems compared to storm and brunswick covers based on personal experience and what the majority of people here say. I just stay away from any ebo' company and have decided to use brunswick/morich and i havent had any issues/problems. my .02 cents.
Title: Re: truth about ball death
Post by: Inferno_256 on August 10, 2008, 02:18:15 AM: i dont understand how its even possible for a ball to die after 30 games
ive got a couple balls with at least a 1000 games on them and they still hook like the day i got them
--------------------
Michael Makela
Thunder Bay, Ontario Canada

www.mjbt.org

My Vids:
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=Vapor237
Title: Re: truth about ball death
Post by: Blistershurt on August 10, 2008, 02:40:10 AM: quote:
Tried all of these things with Hammer and Ebonite balls and they still died after 30 games. I think it is more about the company.
--------------------
You're pro or you're a noob.

That's life.

You're obviously a noob at ball maintenance. He didnt mention hot water baths in there. When doing a hot water bath it will take hot water and a good 15 minutes soaking to get the oil to come to the surface if it is really far down in the ball. I cant tell you how many times people have said they had ball death and I took their ball, cleaned it and gave it back to them, good as new. Yes, these people claimed they cleaned the ball well and yada yada.
I throw my equipment A LOT. I get free bowling at my house center and I bowl upwards of 100+ games a week. I will give the stuff a bath every few weeks, I know my Cell has over 500 games on it, and still working very very well, I just clean it using a hot water bath. I probably bowl more games in 30 days than you do in a few months (right now at least).

"Running your hands under water isnt the same as washing them with soap.
--------------------
Weapons
Anger, Cell, Spare ball (for the pesky one left standing), Scout (rico!!), and No Mercy (on the way)

High Game-300
High Series-767
Title: Re: truth about ball death
Post by: Moon57 on August 10, 2008, 04:42:00 AM: One thing I haven't heard suggested is plugging and redrilling the ball to put the track on a fresher part of the ball. If the ball is still dead, I would think there may be something wrong with the cover. Has anybody tried this?

--------------------
Moon
--------------------
So many questions, so little time but I'm having fun.
Title: Re: truth about ball death
Post by: LuvThatWhiteDot on August 10, 2008, 08:49:53 AM: I use 91% alcohol from a spray bottle after every practice or league session. My seven-year-old El Nino X-It still hooks as much as the day I got it, except I won't be using it as often as it's now old enough to start first grade

Actually, it'll be right back in the bag as soon as leagues start. I'm saving my fresh coverstock on my Special Agent for Nationals. I want to get my 25-year plaque throwing the Special Agent
--------------------
White Dot
I'm only as strong as the coffee I drink and the hairspray I use.
www.luvthatwhitedot.bowlspace.com
Title: Re: truth about ball death
Post by: SVstar34 on August 10, 2008, 01:21:54 PM: I wipe visible oil lines off the ball everytime I go to throw, I wipe each ball off with Liquid Nitro after every set. After 25 games, I use alcohol on each ball and apply a liberal amount of Liquid Nitro. Every ball I've had has never died. I even do the same thing to my dads Red Hammer from back in the day after he had it resurfaced, he says it reacts like new everytime.
--------------------
My Arsenal:
Twisted Fury
Raw Hammer Pain
Blue Vibe
Title: Re: truth about ball death
Post by: mainzer on August 10, 2008, 02:12:11 PM: quote:
I use 91% alcohol from a spray bottle after every practice or league session. My seven-year-old El Nino X-It still hooks as much as the day I got it, except I won't be using it as often as it's now old enough to start first grade

Agreed all you need is rubbing rubbing alcohol after every 6-9 games
--------------------
MainzerPower
Title: Re: truth about ball death
Post by: Inferno_256 on August 10, 2008, 02:34:42 PM: I haven't heard this talked about before but is it possible that different conditioners affect how fast a ball looses reaction?
--------------------
Michael Makela
Thunder Bay, Ontario Canada

www.mjbt.org

My Vids:
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=Vapor237
Title: Re: truth about ball death
Post by: cmurder300 on August 10, 2008, 03:19:47 PM: Today's balls are made to be so oil absorbent that it is almost mandortary to have a micro-fiber towel to wipe the ball off after every shot, a good spray cleaner(any good degreaser),and a bottle of clean and dull for those deep cleanings(every 9-12 games). On top of that after so many games you will need to take your equipment to a local proshop to have it revived and resurfaced. If you are experiencing ball death after 30 games you are doing something wrong and need to talk to your local proshop and get some help!!!!
--------------------
UAW FOR LIFE
www.infinitevisionbowling.com
Title: Re: truth about ball death
Post by: Xcessive_Evil on August 10, 2008, 06:31:05 PM: Well, maybe I'm in the rare few. I've never had a ball die on me. Not even my old Champ, Contender and Silencer that I used until last November. But then again, I clean my stuff after every use, and have an abralon pad put on it at least every other week.
--------------------
I don't mean to be high speed/high rev, I was just born that way.

High game-300
High series-796

www.youtube.com/Track8401
Title: Re: truth about ball death
Post by: mainzer on August 10, 2008, 10:50:35 PM: quote:
If you are experiencing ball death after 30 games you are doing something wrong!!!!

Or you are using Ebonite made equipment!! LOL
--------------------
MainzerPower
Title: Re: truth about ball death
Post by: BrianCRX90 on August 11, 2008, 12:22:05 AM: "don't throw dull equipment on dry lanes"

That is humorous. One of my best balls not only works great for oil but for real dry lanes when I can throw hard and straight.
Title: Re: truth about ball death
Post by: rvmark on August 11, 2008, 08:33:13 AM: I admit that my Black Widow Solid absorbs and incredible amount of oil, I clean it after each set (at the bowling alley) and use Clean N Dull every 12-15 games and by 50 games I usually see reduced ball performance, I evidentally am one of the lucky ones because I have been able to bring the ball performance back using hot water baths for oil extraction followed by using my ball spinner and abralon pads to bring it back to surface. I really like my Black Widow but will also admit that it takes more maintenance than my Storm Sure Fire or Columbia Apogee.

For those of you that have experienced ball death and have been following a good cleaning and maintenance program I can understand your frustrations, because I would also be frustrated if I had taken care of my ball and tried everything and could not bring the ball performance back.

Mark
Title: Re: truth about ball death
Post by: LuckyLefty on August 11, 2008, 08:48:11 AM: I have never used these oil soakers before....

Yesterday I went to some newly refinished wood lanes where they had put extra oil on to protect the lanes.

The new stuff I have...(a fury) just stayed oily oily oily using standard regular towels(not a very good one at that!). (I WILL get a microfiber towel to use these new oil soaker covers). This ball never really hooked much all day(slightly different finger pitches to fool with too!).(Scored awesome though!!)

My old particle stuff(never touched by Sandpaper) was doing it's usual hooking the house stuff. One of them a Columbia particle product(Wow pearl) almost 7 years old!

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Title: Re: truth about ball death
Post by: Gazoo on August 11, 2008, 09:36:41 AM: Some of the problems result from the fact that just doing and oil extraction is not going to solve the problem. After a period of use, these coverstocks end up at about 600 grit so they need to be taken back to the starting grits after oil extraction. Using the Black Widow as an example, a 600 grit ball is not going to react like a 4000 grit ball on the condition you are using the ball on. All balls will lose some of what I call "manufactured hook" but there is no "death", just gets moved to a different spot in the rotation.

Edited on 8/11/2008 9:46 AM
Title: Re: truth about ball death
Post by: nd300 on August 11, 2008, 10:05:07 AM: I'm one of the "clean after every set type",and also a "hot water and Dawn bath" after every 30 games.
So far,all of my Ebonite stuff(and my Lane#1 U-Pearl)react just fine on house shots and tournament shots.
Just my experiences...................
--------------------
Chris
JTTDB---Just Throw The Damn Ball
Don't "think"---that ball isn't in your bag yet..........
Title: Re: truth about ball death
Post by: seamistlark on August 11, 2008, 10:42:57 AM: I'm a firm believer in the Clean after every set rule. I have thrown over 100 games on my Resurgence, and about 70-80 on the Momentum. Both get cleaned after each set. I have even started touching them up before I leave for League. Still with the same reaction when new.
I will be taking them in for Reviving and resurfacing, before Winter Leagues start, just to start fresh.
I have treated all my equipment the same way for the past couple of years and had great results. Even my "hand me down" BWS and Hawg were treated this way. Only reason I am throwing Columbia stuff is I treated myself to "Brand new " instead of "New to Me" equipment. My son is using the Hammer stuff now.
--------------------
Ted Domey
Columbia Resurgence
Columbia Momentum
Hammer Black Widow (Retired)
Hammer Hawg (Retired)
Ebonite Big Time Pearl
I used to bowl Candlepin, but I have found Tenpin, and will Candlepin no more.

** A Sinner Can Reform, But Stupid is Forever.**
Title: Re: truth about ball death
Post by: wulfpackbwlr on August 11, 2008, 10:57:02 AM: Where's a chemist to explain ball death when we need it? I by no means am one but there is something that actually makes sense along those lines. Quality of resin. That by itself can explain ball death. Lets see...the bowling balls that die quickest are ebonite manufactured correct? Lets see, could it be possible that they use the lowest grade resin compared to other companies? This resin is extremely porous which could also explain why they can get "pearlized" balls to hook even when dealing with an oily condition. Chemical make up of their resin could be worse than others, combined with an extremely small thickness on each ball could help explain why they die so quickly. It would make sense for them to use a cheaper resin that is poorer quality because they're selling so many balls it keeps production costs down and profits up. Makes pretty good sense to me.

I mean you've got 3 companies that do not have as much problem with ball death from what I get. Visionary, 900/AMF, and Lane Masters. Not sure what brand/ grade 2 of them use but they seem to last longer than Ebonite poured. Lane Masters says they use grade A resin. There has to be a reason they mention this outside of A sounding better. From what I've seen their equipment outlasts anything out there right now.

Sure, ball maintenance is very important to keep a consistent reaction out of a ball since the cover changes over time, but I don't believe that's 100% true. I may be 100% wrong on my thoughts and if so then that's fine but I have heard a few discussions between distributors/ ball companies that have discussed this which is how I formulated my opinion.

I by no means am one brand faithful either. I've had about every company I have mentioned and by all means Ebonite outsells and out performs a lot of balls in a lot of peoples hands. Maybe I've been hanging out at that college thing too long.
--------------------
NC State Bowling Team
http://http://clubs.ncsu.edu/bowling/index.htm
email: wolfpackbowling@yahoo.com
Please contact if you attend NC State and want to bowl or want to make a donation to our broke team.:-)
Title: Re: truth about ball death
Post by: mxbowler95 on August 11, 2008, 11:21:38 AM: I have never had a ball die on my, but two of my three Ebonites have lost some of their angularity, I guess you could call it that, and hook. They haven't lost much, but enough to be noticed. The two that have this problem are The One and Angular One. This is probably due to the fact that they were the first ones to hit New England and are my league/practice balls. I also have a reproduced One and a Bite. I have noticed with these four balls that they absorb the oil the quickest our of all my balls. I wipe my balls off before every shot. But when I'm at a tournament with 8-12 bowlers per pair, my Ebonite and Hammer balls are dry by the time I'm up again when my Twisted Fury, for example, would be covered with oil. This may be another reason why people think they experience ball death. But as a few have said, have better up-keep. I clean my balls as they come off the rack at the end of a tournament, but some need to be put in hot water sooner than others and need to be resurfaced sooner than others. I have balls from Brunswick, Ebonite, Hammer, Morich, Lane 1, and Storm. Out of all these, the Brunswicks seem to need the least amount of maintenance. But if you think your Hammer or Ebonite or any other ball are becoming "dead", bring them to your pro shop and have them put them in the Rejuvenator and get them resurfaced. After this wash them in hot water twice as much as you used to. And while your washing these balls in hot water, wash the others that aren't dieing or dead, because waters a free tool that will keep your balls working like new

Edited on 8/11/2008 11:22 AM
Title: Re: truth about ball death
Post by: Strokewiththelefthand on August 11, 2008, 04:57:34 PM: The reason for ebonites cover problems is because of oil absorption. It started with the one. It was popular because it ate oil. You had to keep extracting the oil. It was the first step in their upgrade of covers. The second step was the total nv. It had a dense cover that got u through the heads and absorb oil at the same time. I have a total nv with like 140 games now. Still in incredible shape and looks like it has not been thrown much. All the complaints about ebo covers yet ebo, hammer, Columbia 300, and track equipment round out 4 of the top 5 ball companies in sales. You can't keep them in the shop.
--------------------
Formally LeftyHawse, Jim Jones.
I'm man enough to admit I stroke with the left hand and it feels good.

Mullans pro shop Richmond, Va.

J. C. Jones coaching solutions
Richmond, Va.
Title: Re: truth about ball death
Post by: OddBalls on August 11, 2008, 05:09:03 PM: I didn't mind the cover soaking up oil, as long as I could render it out and have the ball reaction return. My EPX-A1 is the KING of soaking up oil

However, my TNV and BW solid both soaked up oil and FAILED to have the reaction return even after having the oil removed from the cover.

That's the kind of ball death I'm talking about..

--------------------
Inverted 1 and Dead Flush are my Evil Twins...
Title: Re: truth about ball death
Post by: Jay on August 11, 2008, 05:44:03 PM: I don't know about experiencing ball death exactly, but I have experienced a few balls lacking performance after a certain amount of time. My Big One wasn't realy a good ball for me in general, but possibly due to improper water bath I ruined it. My Whirlwind took about 200 games or more before I noticed lack in performance. My Twisted Fury I got in January probably got 50 games on it, then I had it resurfaced. It didn't react the same after that but part of it was due to not being taken back to OOB. But I'd say about after 100 games on it was when it just started rolling like crap except under really specific conditions. Now I recently took it to OOB and it's slightly better but still sucks compared to before the resurface. I gave it a hot water bath recently and have yet to try it but I'm not expecting much. I hope my other three balls last longer than that, two of them are in the 50+ game range.
--------------------
The Arsenal:

Rival
Counter Strike
Avalanche Solid
Maxim

Edited on 8/11/2008 5:44 PM
Title: Re: truth about ball death
Post by: taige690 on August 11, 2008, 06:11:56 PM: I personally hit my hooking ball per say once a week with 1000 grit paper, I bowl in two leagues, and do this before I bowl in the house with the most oil. It tends to absorb oil slowly as the lanes dry up, and I find I dont move my shot as much if I had not cleaned or touched up the surface. I know this has nothing to do with ball death in a sense. I usually purchase a new ball every three years and use the previous ball with polish or in a dry lane condition. Does any one else use this method?
Title: Re: truth about ball death
Post by: Gazoo on August 11, 2008, 06:15:46 PM: What I find stranger than ball death, is when someone trades or sells one of these balls they say doesn't even wrinkle a few boards and then the person who buys it talks about what a beast the ball is (hook monster). Same ball two different viewpoints. I have thrown alot of ebonite stuff over the years, and the only ball that ever lost noticeable reaction was Big One at 150 games. Just put some polish on it and it went from a med-heavy ball to a lighter medium ball. I'm just glad I don't have this problem but feel for those that due.