BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: squirrelywrath1 on March 22, 2018, 09:07:24 PM
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What recently happened to me is pushing me more toward quitting the game altogether. I've already had major spats regarding the rule changes governing no-thumb bowlers, now I have problems finding someone to drill at a reasonable price.
Keep in mind that I only need two finger holes, no beveling, and no grips. CG in the middle of the bridge for simplicity. But, still quoted as high as $100 because the ball wasn't bought from him. Another guy is $60, and this other schmuck refused me service altogether.
Probably only 10 minutes worth of work, what the hell is with these guys? I was willing to pay $30, but no takers.
By the way, the ball in question is an old Faball Hammer. Can't buy one through a pro shop/distributor anyway.
Since I refuse to be ripped off by these guys, I'm willing to try drilling it myself using hand held tools. Anyone ever try this and had success? Tips? Thank you in advance.
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Just quit bowling.
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Just quit bowling.
I'm seriously considering it for several reasons.
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Just quit bowling.
I'm seriously considering it for several reasons.
See Ya!!!!
I won't even buy a ball online and ask someone else to drill it. Slap in the face. I would expect to be over charged for drilling.
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I remember right after Parker Bohn III shot 300 with that Attitude 3, I saved up all of my money from my first job, 2 1/2 paychecks as a bus boy in high school in 1998 to buy that ball retail. I went to the pro shop that Friday after school and picked it up for $211.90 with tax, drilled. That was 1998, 20 years ago. $211.90 in 1998 is equal to $322.50 in 2018 with inflation.
https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=211.90&year1=199809&year2=201802 (https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=211.90&year1=199809&year2=201802)
Bowling balls and services are technically cheaper than ever. If you can't afford to cough up $80-100 to keep good ball drillers in business, then it's probably not the right time to be purchasing a bowling ball. Save your money. Bowling ball prices are the only thing in this world who's price hasn't changed in 20 years. If bowling followed the same inflation rates, the sport would be dead due to $500/high end ball costs. (Cause bowlers are very cheap, some with reason)
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At least one of them was smart enough to refuse to do it. If the PITA factor is high before the ball is drilled, it is off the charts after the ball is drilled.
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I'm not saying that my way is right, but as a former PSO, I can't understand a driller refusing to drill a ball period. Just quote a higher price. Then again, maybe he sensed you were going to be a PITA in the way you approached him and refusing your business completely was the right move as nothing is worse than making crumbs as a PSO and dealing with condescending customers who are impossible to satisfy. It's a business I'll never get into again.
I only buy balls 1 time a year, maybe two. Most of the time I'll bring my PSO 3 blanks from online, and purchase 2 or 3 more from him at the same time. That way they know that I am trusting them with everything I am going to throw for the next year and I am trying to load their pocket on the front end by moving some of their stock in addition to drilling my eBay specials. I've never had a PSO complain (to my face) or refuse a blank. Rather than being a ball of the month whore and dropping $2-300/month, I just come in at one time, plop down the ~$1000 one time and all is well. A $1000 day from one customer is something they're going to appreciate a lot, regardless of where you got the ball from. In a nutshell, for every blank I bring in, I make sure to buy one of their dead stocked balls as well. You gotta keep the good guys in business. It's getting harder and harder to find good PSOs.
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Some people need to just be told to go away. Northface28 stated it pretty clearly.
I'm waiting for the "customer is always right" crowd that has never run their own business to chime in.
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As mentioned there are it seems an infinite amount of bad ball drillers out there and very few that know what they are doing. In most cases the bowlers are paying the same price for drilling at both.
Bad business is also rampant across all industries including bowling. As a business you can refuse service to anyone but it comes at a cost. If someone brings in a ball from somewhere else, or another decade, your opportunity to make money is the same. Quote whatever price you feel worthwhile for drilling the ball and the accessories. If they do it great, if not, then you are out zero inventory or anything else. Out right refusing business is the least smart option. If it makes you feel nice and fuzzy inside maybe that is worthwhile to you but not the smartest business decision.
Yes drilling for a no thumb bowler is easy. Especially if not using grips etc. At the end of the day the shop will spend about 10-15 minutes of work on the ball and you are out the door. Doesn't mean the price will be cheaper necessarily. They aren't making profit on the ball, or accessories, just the drilling and their time. So expect to pay probably $45 to $60 to have the ball drilled.
Now in purchasing online you would be smart to get your finger sizes and use someone like bowlingball.com or buddiesproshop.com that also offer drilling.
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I'm right there with ya.
I paid the grocery store for a steak, and can't understand why Long Horn won't cook it for me for cheaper than their menu prices, since I'm supplying the steak.
These businesses are crazy, no doubt!
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Since when has a pro shop become a traders village/pawn shop? Quoted prices are just that quoted prices. You know the price going in and when you say Ill pay you 30 to drill my ball then get upset when he says no and refuses to drill it. I dont understand why people think pro shop owners/proffesionals will do things for basically nothing and be able to stay in business.
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Since when has a pro shop become a traders village/pawn shop? Quoted prices are just that quoted prices. You know the price going in and when you say Ill pay you 30 to drill my ball then get upset when he says no and refuses to drill it. I dont understand why people think pro shop owners/proffesionals will do things for basically nothing and be able to stay in business.
Though I agree with you and pretty much everyone here, I have seen several pro shops without advertised prices and they will quote whatever they feel like. A shop can always adjust their prices for a particular group of people. My shop may throw me a bone every now and then, but I only deal with him and buy through him.
But if a shop has no advertised price, then I can see why some might complain. The OP seems like the type who just doesn't understand the dynamics of pro shop prices. Hopefully this discussion will help him understand why prices are what they are and how he can perhaps reduce the overall cost in the future.
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Well if you order your equipment on line, have you tried Buddies, they are very reasonable only charge $30 drilling including slug and finger inserts with free shipping.
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I know this much, if your barber told you $20, and you argued it was only worth $10, and he agreed to give you a $10 haircut, you wouldn’t like the results.
You won’t like the results of a cheap drill job either.
If you go to the hospital for heart surgery, do you haggle over the price and look for someone who will do it cheaper, or do you pony up for the good guy who knows his shit?
Point is, the price is the price. He can ask what he wants, and you can pay it or not.
You asked if it was possible to drill the holes yourself, so I linked a YouTube video of someone doing just that. Now you know how it can be done, so either go pay the man what he’s asking, or drill it yourself and save the money.
Discount heart surgery usually doesn’t work out too well............ :o
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I think the OP should buy themselves a drill press and drill their own stuff. Heck, it would only take "Probably only 10 minutes worth of work".
For the more realistic among us, my most valuable asset(bowling wise) is my Pro shop guy.
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It is only 10 minutes of work after you spend 20 minutes trying not to stab yourself in the ear with a pencil while dealing with somebody like the OP and then another 15 minutes finishing the ball and getting them out the door.
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I guess I'm the only one here that read your post and took your attitude as a by-product of the prices you were quoted instead of as the attitude with which you approached the situation...
I'd say 30 bucks is a little low, but you certainly shouldn't be paying more than 45 without any inserts, slugs, ITs, etc. However, I also wouldn't expect any real discount from their standard drilling prices for not having a thumbhole. Maaaaaybe 5 bucks, but that's about it.
Sorry you're having a hard time finding a driller. You are correct, the prices you were quoted were ridiculous. If that's left a bad taste in your mouth over the situation, I understand. If, however, you approached getting your ball drilled by telling the drillers what you would pay regardless of their prices, then I would suggest you totally deserved it...but I'm willing to assume the best, because I wasn't there. Either way, good luck.
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Kudos for being diplomatic Mbosco! ;D
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I guess I'm the only one here that read your post and took your attitude as a by-product of the prices you were quoted instead of as the attitude with which you approached the situation...
I'd say 30 bucks is a little low, but you certainly shouldn't be paying more than 45 without any inserts, slugs, ITs, etc. However, I also wouldn't expect any real discount from their standard drilling prices for not having a thumbhole. Maaaaaybe 5 bucks, but that's about it.
Sorry you're having a hard time finding a driller. You are correct, the prices you were quoted were ridiculous. If that's left a bad taste in your mouth over the situation, I understand. If, however, you approached getting your ball drilled by telling the drillers what you would pay regardless of their prices, then I would suggest you totally deserved it...but I'm willing to assume the best, because I wasn't there. Either way, good luck.
I think at all depends on the cost of living of the location. San Francisco, yes, I can see those higher prices, but a small town in Harrisonburg VA, than $45 may be closer to expectations. Central PA, we are anywhere from about $45 on the low end, up to as high as $70. Depends on the center.
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If this is enough to make you wanna quit, then do so. No one is going to cry that you're gone. Go take up golf and tell the golf pro what you want to pay for his services. Get laughed out of the shop and then post on a golf site about it.
I'm always interested in what the people who do this do for their line of work, and if they let their customers dictate what they want to pay.
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Also, wouldn't be surprised if you're already getting the PITA mark-up. You might be well known as one.
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Once you get the PITA markup then you know the driller to bring any old rubber balls you pick up too. Making his shop smell of toxic burned rubber all day is worth the markup and prevents getting on the PITA list for drillers you like.
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I think there's some differing opinions on what a fair price is for what I asked for. I was used to paying only $25 for just two holes elsewhere - but that guy has moved on because the center has closed down.
I tried to keep it as quick & simple as possible to no avail. No beveling, no scaling, etc.
Remember too, the ball in question has been discontinued for near 30 years. Nothing currently made really comes close to the Faball Pearl Blue.
Another thing, I could in theory bring in a USED one for plug and redrill for only $50 which is only half the highest price quoted - but that would involve much more work for the PSO. Does that make any sense?
Up the PSO, does he/she want to make a fair profit off of me now and get repeat business... or none at all?
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I guess I'm the only one here that read your post and took your attitude as a by-product of the prices you were quoted instead of as the attitude with which you approached the situation...
I'd say 30 bucks is a little low, but you certainly shouldn't be paying more than 45 without any inserts, slugs, ITs, etc. However, I also wouldn't expect any real discount from their standard drilling prices for not having a thumbhole. Maaaaaybe 5 bucks, but that's about it.
Sorry you're having a hard time finding a driller. You are correct, the prices you were quoted were ridiculous. If that's left a bad taste in your mouth over the situation, I understand. If, however, you approached getting your ball drilled by telling the drillers what you would pay regardless of their prices, then I would suggest you totally deserved it...but I'm willing to assume the best, because I wasn't there. Either way, good luck.
Never told any of those guys what I thought was fair. Only that what I was asking for would be very quick and simple for him. No need to weigh up the ball, or layout a grip, etc. (I don't bowl anything sanctioned anymore, so who cares if the ball actually weighs up illegal)
I've seen my old guy do this in around 10 minutes or so. I would assume that another competent driller could do the same. But to expect $100 for those 10 minutes is unreasonable to me.
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I guess I'm the only one here that read your post and took your attitude as a by-product of the prices you were quoted instead of as the attitude with which you approached the situation...
I'd say 30 bucks is a little low, but you certainly shouldn't be paying more than 45 without any inserts, slugs, ITs, etc. However, I also wouldn't expect any real discount from their standard drilling prices for not having a thumbhole. Maaaaaybe 5 bucks, but that's about it.
Sorry you're having a hard time finding a driller. You are correct, the prices you were quoted were ridiculous. If that's left a bad taste in your mouth over the situation, I understand. If, however, you approached getting your ball drilled by telling the drillers what you would pay regardless of their prices, then I would suggest you totally deserved it...but I'm willing to assume the best, because I wasn't there. Either way, good luck.
Never told any of those guys what I thought was fair. Only that what I was asking for would be very quick and simple for him. No need to weigh up the ball, or layout a grip, etc. (I don't bowl anything sanctioned anymore, so who cares if the ball actually weighs up illegal)
I've seen my old guy do this in around 10 minutes or so. I would assume that another competent driller could do the same. But to expect $100 for those 10 minutes is unreasonable to me.
Nobody charges over $50 to $60 for any kind of replugging or drilling in my area (don't usually use inserts) but also live in middle of large metro area with a fair amount of competition.
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Maybe the new guy just didn't like the cut of your jib. Obviously something about you rubbed them the wrong way.
A lot of pro shops have a sign posted with a base drilling price for balls not bought there. Usually it's a lot higher price than if you bought the ball from them.
Is that fair? Absolutely. Since we don't know the variables in this situation, the quoted $100 price might have other reasons than just a "screw you and your online ball".
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The PSO absolutely has to weigh the ball to find the top weight and true CG before drilling. Anyone doing otherwise is doing hack work. Point blank period. I can't tell you how many "new customers" we would get from other shops after they went to nationals with a ball, like you're mentioning that was just drilled and not weighed and they had to bury a big hole in the side of it, or deem it illegal period because there wasn't a hole big enough that they could use to get it back in spec. If a ball has a weird topweight like 4-5oz and the C.G. is mismarked say 2" left and 2" down, it's going to be way over the side weight restrictions and require a hole so big that it's going to change the reaction.
Now granted, you can't do much to change the reaction of your blue hammer and I do see your point about a quick and easy job, I would have done it with a strict, "As Is no modification" policy and noted in my system that you specifically requested it that way.
Some PSO's, like mechanics, just don't want to be told what to do either. Especially by someone with zero hours of training, so maybe that was the reason they quoted you an exorbitant price, or just refused to do it at all. Ultimately, I've seen too many instances when a customer came in and demanded something be done their way, they hate the reaction and then go on a smear campaign in their league about why the pro shop sucks and don't get balls drilled there because they "made yours roll like crap" (not specifically you). They were probably just covering their own behinds as someone who comes in the door a little bit on edge, usually isn't going to be a satisfied customer regardless.
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Although Buddies only charges $30 it surely isn't a cheap job and they go above such as I sent a ball in for them to get measurements and they actually made a thumb mold at no extra charge and resurfaced the ball that I sent in free of charge and shipped the new and old ball back no shipping charge. I would prefer doing business with the pro shop but when you ask about a price for a ball 3 different times with no response what else can you do. Our pro shop operator has changed 3 different times in the last 2 or 3 years and I must say with each change it has gotten worse. Pro shop operators must realize they are a customer service and should treat their customers as the ones who sign their pay checks because they are.
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when you are getting a ball drilled, you are not just paying for the time it takes to put the holes into it.
you paying for knowledge and skill that it takes to put the holes in the correct place. You are paying for the proper fit of the ball. And you are likely paying for a warranty that if their workmanship wasn't up to snuff, that you can return and have it fixed free of charge.
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I've had maybe 8-10 balls since 2010 drilled by buddies and they've never missed the line. I've had PSO's pass off work of mine to their students/lackeys in the shop and 1 out of 3 balls will be noticeably off, pitch wise or span and I'm one of the easiest guys in the world to drill for. Span is 4 11/16 x 4 11/16 0/0 on the thumb w/ no bevel, 0 & 5/16 lateral in both fingers. Buddies does great work if you know your specs. I wouldn't hesitate at all to use their drilling options if you don't have a good pro shop in your area.
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You won't be able to drill yourself easily with hand tools, I wouldn't try it. Consider buying an old bench top ball drill. For 2 finger holes you could get away with 1 bit if you use grips.
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when you are getting a ball drilled, you are not just paying for the time it takes to put the holes into it.
you paying for knowledge and skill that it takes to put the holes in the correct place. You are paying for the proper fit of the ball. And you are likely paying for a warranty that if their workmanship wasn't up to snuff, that you can return and have it fixed free of charge.
Paying for the drill which these days often comes with a computer and is pricey. Paying for drill bits also.
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Pick up a KMT do it yourself deal and your all set
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Some very interesting replies and perspectives here, thank you all for replying.
Looking back, I believe I made a mistake by mentioning that I don't bowl sanctioned leagues our tournaments anymore. That could lead someone to think I wouldn't be a repeat customer, so they're inclined to make some good money quickly.
With two of the guys I don't remember discussing any of my recent new purchases such as 2 Blue Hammer remakes, Taboo Spare, Pitch Black, etc. I'm guessing not a huge markup on those, but it is steady income for the PSO. Just to be clear I do buy new currently made stuff regularly, but unfortunately mostly low end balls.
Possible too, I have problems with people misjudging my age. I'm going on 48 but can pass for 25 or so. I've had many skeptical looks from people when I talk about bowling in the "old" days with the AMF Angles, Yellow Dots and the like. If they think I'm lying about my age and bowling experience, that COULD explain some of the reaction I got.
I believe I'll suck it up and go to the guy who charges $60 - that was his standard for internet balls. I'll work on building a relationship with him that is beneficial for both parties.
Now if I can just solve the problems I have with the USBC....... *sigh*
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Now if I can just solve the problems I have with the USBC....... *sigh*
Brother, that's probably a bridge too far for any of us.
https://bowl.com/News/NewsDetails.aspx?id=23622330819
Looks like they are trying to get more of us into that top division so their Pros and top level amateurs can make more money.
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Atlanta drillers charge $60-70 with finger inserts and thumb slug. These are from two of the best PSO in the region. Plus you get full service, watching and adjusting surface and balance hole to fine tune the shot shape. I even get a bit of free coaching now and then. Well worth them few extra dollars to help them pay the rent and upkeep on their tools.
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Now if I can just solve the problems I have with the USBC....... *sigh*
Brother, that's probably a bridge too far for any of us.
https://bowl.com/News/NewsDetails.aspx?id=23622330819
Looks like they are trying to get more of us into that top division so their Pros and top level amateurs can make more money.
Feed people to the sharks. That's a great way to grow the sport and the tournament. Sign me up.
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Even Buddies charges more than $30, $38 with no type of inserts, but don't use that as a comparison because having boxes with spec sheets sitting on them is much different than customer interaction. You also can't compare plug prices to blank drill prices as there is no risk doing plug work.
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Not knowing your situation, you should pick one shop, buy and do all your business with them. If someone had bought all those balls from me that you said you bought, I most likely would do the ball in question for free. If not $20 at the most. Build a relationship, don’t be PITA, and you might be surprised.
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Pick up a KMT do it yourself deal and your all set
https://myspace.com/kmtproshop/videos (https://myspace.com/kmtproshop/videos)
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I have a little different angle on this. Now, I've put SEVERAL posts here saying to charge what you're worth, I generally charged higher than most places charged, but I put in a lot of extra work to make sure they got their money's worth. I believe in doing good work and charging for it. People go into their jobs and expect to be compensated well for their work, but want to go into a business and demand as much as possible for as little as possible.
HOWEVER, in this circumstance, I'm a bit backwards from most shop operators. You want to buy a ball online and come get it drilled here? GREAT, sign me up, I'm all for it. Despite me being a fan of premium pricing, I'd have taken that deal. Regular outside drill was $50, grips $5.50 apiece, slug $15, but you're saying:
1) I don't have to order the ball
2) $30 for two holes that don't need grips that will take me 10 minutes for the entire transaction
YOU HAVE YOURSELF A DEAL. If I get an order, I have to submit the order, deal with the distributor (ours SUCKED though), receive it, process it, enter it into inventory on the computer, drill it, and warranty it. Drilling 2 holes is as easy as it gets, and as much as I hate people being cheap and trying to work a deal out of me, I also hate the uppity pro shop guy who gets idealistic and egotistical. Again, $30 for 2 holes and 10 minutes of my time is a done deal, especially if you've made it that easy. You ordered the ball, you're telling me exactly where you want it drilled and how you want it done, I punch two holes with zero liability and we're done. Sorry, but turning that down doesn't sound like a smart thing to do.
Now I can understand why some people may not want to do that based on principle alone, I hate people treating a pro shop like it's a used car lot. This is a legit deal though, it's not like someone is expecting the same thing everyone else gets, but for cheaper. It's less work, and zero liability, so seeing if you can get it for cheaper doesn't seem unfair to me I guess. Now your attitude set me back a little, but if I got attitude back from some ego in a shop, I might be a little chippy about it too.
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U can't expect a different shop to charge the same price as the next.
In my experiences, nearly every time, I pay full price at the start and once they realize how easy of a customer I am, and the fact that I bring a ton of other customers with me....(many follow where I go) they lower the price real quick for me.
Support the shop first and they'll probably take of you in the long run the way you want. You might keep that next shop in business paying his price. Once the shop realizes how little work they have to do for you...the price will go down.
Starting over with a pro shop sucks...it's one thing I hate to do..
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Even Buddies charges more than $30, $38 with no type of inserts, but don't use that as a comparison because having boxes with spec sheets sitting on them is much different than customer interaction. You also can't compare plug prices to blank drill prices as there is no risk doing plug work.
That is not true, I just got a ball from Buddies 2 weeks ago and the charge for drilling including slug and inserts was $30 and no charge for shipping.
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Willing to drill it yourself with hand tools?
Yes, I have done it and it works.
It took me over a years worth of work to plan out my own homemade drill press and jig, make it, waste old balls practicing it.
Dozens of hours over the course of a year, and while not as much spend on say, buying a real drill press, costs a lot.
There is a company that sells something to do it yourself at home, I can't remember the name.
The problem with doing it at home is getting the pitches perfect. I get my pitches within 1/32 accuracy, but if you just hold up a hand drill to a ball it'll be a mess.
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I'm right there with ya.
I paid the grocery store for a steak, and can't understand why Long Horn won't cook it for me for cheaper than their menu prices, since I'm supplying the steak.
These businesses are crazy, no doubt!
That's a horrible analogy.
A better one would be: if I buy my car at one dealership, but then I take it for servicing at another dealership because it may be closer, they should charge me double to work on my car because I didn't buy the car from them?
If I bring a single drilled ball to that same pro shop, the should charge me double because I didn't buy the ball from them initially?
I get it, they are retailers and would prefer to reap the margin of selling the ball. But they are also a service center. To have two different prices to do the same service for two different customers is simply wrong. I mean what are they? The airline industry?
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I'm right there with ya.
I paid the grocery store for a steak, and can't understand why Long Horn won't cook it for me for cheaper than their menu prices, since I'm supplying the steak.
These businesses are crazy, no doubt!
That's a horrible analogy.
A better one would be: if I buy my car at one dealership, but then I take it for servicing at another dealership because it may be closer, they should charge me double to work on my car because I didn't buy the car from them?
If I bring a single drilled ball to that same pro shop, the should charge me double because I didn't buy the ball from them initially?
I get it, they are retailers and would prefer to reap the margin of selling the ball. But they are also a service center. To have two different prices to do the same service for two different customers is simply wrong. I mean what are they? The airline industry?
Actually, the steak example is an excellent analogy. Cooking outside steaks doesn’t work for a sustainable Restaurant business model, and drilling outside balls on the cheap equally doesn’t work for most Proshops.
The world seems to be filled with bowlers wanting everything For very little and consequently happy with driving local brick-and-mortar shops out of business.
No thanks......
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I'm right there with ya.
I paid the grocery store for a steak, and can't understand why Long Horn won't cook it for me for cheaper than their menu prices, since I'm supplying the steak.
These businesses are crazy, no doubt!
That's a horrible analogy.
A better one would be: if I buy my car at one dealership, but then I take it for servicing at another dealership because it may be closer, they should charge me double to work on my car because I didn't buy the car from them?
If I bring a single drilled ball to that same pro shop, the should charge me double because I didn't buy the ball from them initially?
I get it, they are retailers and would prefer to reap the margin of selling the ball. But they are also a service center. To have two different prices to do the same service for two different customers is simply wrong. I mean what are they? The airline industry?
Actually, the steak example is an excellent analogy. Cooking outside steaks doesn’t work for a sustainable Restaurant business model, and drilling outside balls on the cheap equally doesn’t work for most Proshops.
The world seems to be filled with bowlers wanting everything For very little and consequently happy with driving local brick-and-mortar shops out of business.
No thanks......
No it’s apples and oranges. A restaurant isn’t a retail shop AND service center.
If I buy a tennis racket model for cheap, but have preferred strings that I use, the sporting goods store down the street should refuse to restring that racket because I dint get it from them? Or they should charge me more than their posted prices because I brought in an ‘outside’ racket? If I buy a nice road bike from someone on Craigslist and I take it to my local bike shop to get it tuned, they should refuse providing me the service because I did not buy the bike from them? Or they should charge me more than the advertised price?
These are apples to apples examples, not the ridiculous restaurant example. Restaurants are retail ONLY. Pro shops, bike shops, local sporting goods, etc are retail shops AND service shops.
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No it’s apples and oranges. A restaurant isn’t a retail shop AND service center.
If I buy a tennis racket model for cheap, but have preferred strings that I use, the sporting goods store down the street should refuse to restring that racket because I dint get it from them? Or they should charge me more than their posted prices because I brought in an ‘outside’ racket? If I buy a nice road bike from someone on Craigslist and I take it to my local bike shop to get it tuned, they should refuse providing me the service because I did not buy the bike from them? Or they should charge me more than the advertised price?
These are apples to apples examples, not the ridiculous restaurant example. Restaurants are retail ONLY. Pro shops, bike shops, local sporting goods, etc are retail shops AND service shops.
Pro shops are only sustainable if they adhere to business models that ensure profitability. If a shop owner devalues his services by mostly punching holes in outside balls at bare bottom pricess, he won't be in business very long. Once a shop gets this reputation, in many cases it's the beginning of the end. I've seen it more than once.
It's not a mystery that businesses in general give better total pricing when you a buy basket of services, or purchase in volume. For bowling, when you pick just a small piece (i.e punch holes), you're generally going to pay more. As an owner, that's just the way things work if you want to stay in business.
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Pro shops I deal with in my area only give like a $10 dollar discount on ball + drilling if buy the ball from them instead. They are not only open about drilling internet balls they often recommend it as most don't keep much but the latest releases anyway in inventory and other than them being able to get a ball in a day or two from their suppliers the prices are usually not better what I can get even with the discount. Plus got a rep about bringing in balls most drillers haven't seen or haven't seen in a long time. Good luck getting a pro shop to order you a NIB purple sumo.
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Pro shops I deal with in my area only give like a $10 dollar discount on ball + drilling if buy the ball from them instead. They are not only open about drilling internet balls they often recommend it as most don't keep much but the latest releases anyway in inventory and other than them being able to get a ball in a day or two from their suppliers the prices are usually not better what I can get even with the discount. Plus got a rep about bringing in balls most drillers haven't seen or haven't seen in a long time. Good luck getting a pro shop to order you a NIB purple sumo.
Glad things are working out for you. I know there are shops that welcome outside balls for drilling on the cheap, but in many cases they're cutting their throats for short term gain. My shop guy won't and most of the quality shops in my area won't either. In my professional life (non-bowling), I never devalued my brand by doing piecemeal services for less than premium prices. It just invited attempts to undermine pricing for my complete packaged services. It wasn't worth it.
As for older balls, the few times I found older gems on my own it was no big deal having my guy drill them up. He didn't want the hassle of hunting them down in the first place. I already buy 6-10 NIB balls per year from him, so a one off outside "gem" is no big deal. It's all part of the long term relationship we've established.
BTW, I've been hit with several warranty issues the past year that were handled with no problems because I bought the balls directly from my local guy. I had three Storm balls that exposed manufacturing defects that couldn't be fixed, and had to be replaced. Good luck getting that taken care of with your outside balls.
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Oh its not cheap really. $40 is about the cheapest I pay and that is only because I have brought the guy a ton of balls. I would go through the pro shops more often but like I said most of them have very limited inventory in my area. I couldn't even find a Hy-Road in stock. Pro shop guy actually did order that one for me. Thing is when you are buying clearance balls well under $100 from Buddies then the risk is often worth it warranty wise. Have bought most of my arsenal online and had zero hassles quality wise (balls don't sit long for the big boys). But yeah if I was going to buy a top shelf new release would go through the pro shop but can't see myself doing that any time soon. Have too many balls as it is.
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Just to play devil's advocate, would anyone expect to pay the same price for the two following scenarios:
#1 Bring in drilled ball and need a complete plug and redrill.
#2 Have pain in my finger and want to plug my ring finger and drill it conventional (Sarge-Easter)
I don't think the OP is questioning the difference between bringing a ball in and buying in house. The question to me: is there any room for discount if most of the work a pro shop operator states is the source of his price is removed?
Ask any pro shop worth their salt why they might charge $75-$100 to drill a ball and you will get some combination of the following:
1. Watch the bowler throw some balls
2. Determine the bowler's PAP, speed, revs, tilt, etc.
3. Fit the bowler
4. Discussion with bowler to determine what type of ball they need or how to fill a void in their arsenal
5. Go through some options with the bowler
6. Bowler decides on ball
7. Discuss with bowler the drilling pattern (and perhaps a short class on what it all means)
8. Pro shop orders ball through the distributor (if not in stock)
9. Pro shop waits for delivery
10. Pro shop drills ball and notifies bowler the ball is ready
11. Bowler comes in to get final tweaks to ball (perhaps determination of balance hole)
12. Bowler leaves with final product
The above list is worth every penny of the cost and perhaps is a good deal depending on the quality of the shop. But why should the bowler expect to pay the same price when items 1-9 are eliminated? Items 1-9 are what take the longest and requires the most effort from the shop.
The other question I have is this.... Why mark up a product when 99.9% of the time you combine that product with a service? If shops didn't mark up the price of the ball, what would the drilling cost be? As a customer, I would expect the price of drilling to be the same regardless of where the ball came from. The service is the same.
I do not have a shop so I only speak out of ignorance to the runnings of a pro shop. I wonder how a shop would do if the advertised price of a ball before drilling was closer to the internet price? Would bowlers be more inclined to order from a shop instead of online?
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Shops in my area don't really mark up the balls much at all but lthey charge pretty close to regular price on the drill as well.
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Again, some very interesting replies here.
PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THOUGH: In my case, I was bringing in an old and LONG DISCONTINUED Faball Blue Pearl Hammer for just two fingerholes with the CG in the center of the bridge. No beveling of the holes either.
I am unaware of any pro shops that would even attempt to hunt down a ball that has been discontinued for nearly 30 years. I did all the work in finding one.
I also tried to make it clear why I wanted to use such an old ball and that minimal service and labor is needed to make me happy. I DID make the mistake of not explaining that I have some physical limitations that prevent me from effectively using most modern equipment. (Blue Hammer remake is the exception). That is why I tend to be most successful with extremely mild stuff which is getting hard to find.
So, is it really fair to charge so much for drilling an old ball that CAN'T be bought through a pro shop/distributor? I still don't think so. I did the work searching out what I want and laying it out. Just need a person to put the holes in it for a fair price.
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Again, some very interesting replies here.
PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THOUGH: In my case, I was bringing in an old and LONG DISCONTINUED Faball Blue Pearl Hammer for just two fingerholes with the CG in the center of the bridge. No beveling of the holes either.
I am unaware of any pro shops that would even attempt to hunt down a ball that has been discontinued for nearly 30 years. I did all the work in finding one.
I also tried to make it clear why I wanted to use such an old ball and that minimal service and labor is needed to make me happy. I DID make the mistake of not explaining that I have some physical limitations that prevent me from effectively using most modern equipment. (Blue Hammer remake is the exception). That is why I tend to be most successful with extremely mild stuff which is getting hard to find.
So, is it really fair to charge so much for drilling an old ball that CAN'T be bought through a pro shop/distributor? I still don't think so. I did the work searching out what I want and laying it out. Just need a person to put the holes in it for a fair price.
All this seems to have been overlooked by most posters on this thread. AND this is the main point here of which I agree 110%. The PSO that flat out refuses to drill such a ball or upcharges to ludicrous $$$ doesn't deserve to be in business & would never have mine & I would tell everyone I know about said 'thief'.
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I'm fortunate enough to have a great pro shop and I always make sure to take care of them.
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Pro shops are only sustainable if they adhere to business models that ensure profitability. If a shop owner devalues his services by mostly punching holes in outside balls at bare bottom pricess, he won't be in business very long. Once a shop gets this reputation, in many cases it's the beginning of the end. I've seen it more than once.
I didn't say anything about bare bottom prices or say that's what they should "mostly" be doing. As someone else posted, if a shop bumps their normal drilling fee by $10 over their normal drilling charge for a ball purchased outside, that's fair. But to say "I won't drill a ball not purchased here" or to say the cost for drilling two holes is $100 (which is essentially saying "I won't drill a ball not purchased here"), THAT'S the beginning of the end.
If the OP brings in a used ball and asks for a plug and drill, should he then also be charged an extra fee because the ball was not originally purchased in that shop? If he wants it resurfaced, should he be charged more if it wasn't bought in that shop?
If I buy a new, non-discontinued ball, I buy it at my proshop and have them drill it. If I see a great price on a discontinued ball, then I do that and have my proshop drill it. I don't see an issue with that, and neither do they. And they do quite well.
(To be clear, I'm also not a jerk about it. If they want to take a couple or three days to do it...or even a week, I'm perfectly okay with it. I'll take the slow road since they are doing that for me without complaint. Perhaps attitude is a driving force in the original scenario.)
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Now while I agree with your original statements, I don't see any reason he should charge you less just because a ball is discontinued, that's faulty logic. It's the same amount of work whether it's currently available or not, now the amount of work doesn't in my mind warrant a full price charge, but I don't care whether it's available now or discontinued, two holes is two holes and to suggest that you should get charged less because the pro shop can't get it isn't reasonable. Now, he shouldn't be mad you didn't buy it from him obviously, but the work is the work regardless of any extraneous details. I still agree $60 bucks to drill two holes without grips is dumb and excessive though.