Author Topic: USBC dues hike (Read 8589 times)

Atochabsh · « **on:** May 19, 2009, 03:51:58 PM »

So there was much debate over dues in the propositions at this convention. Several motions of varying wording all resulting in dues hikes. One proposition was a tier system for a 2 year and then 3 year hike in consecutive years. That was voted down, but another proposition was brought to the floor to raise the USBC fees $5 (since they didn't wan't to explain dues hikes two years in a row to their membership).

$5

This proposition was almost voted in. a 2/3rds was needed, this prop got %62 percent. So you can bet that it will be brought to the floor next season. The possibilities are certainly there that next year it will pass.

So I guess I'm wondering if everyone is ready to pay $5 more in two years for sanctioning fees? and this just includes National fees, not any increase in State or Local dues. So it is possible that in two years you could easily be paying $8 more for sanctioning; +1 for state and +2 for local. Since most local assoc. operate at a deficite or near deficite, especially since the mandatory local dues from the Youth membership goes in effect this next season. Our local dues part of youth membership takes a $1 cut with that edict.

Erin

pin-chaser · « **Reply #16 on:** May 20, 2009, 12:53:21 PM »

I got my first 300 game ring in 1978... it was 10k gold with ruby and diamond. This was the last year they gave out real gold. Now you have to spend 400+ to get a gold ring. Why dont USBC subsidize the cost of the ring. Its not an award if we have to pay for it. Sure I could take the ONE free ring I get now for a LIFETIME but I can always buy a 14k $700 multi-top 300 game ring.

My local association has a dinner once per year to HONOR the members and a guest who have won award scores, 300's, 299's. 298's and 800's. That's cool. As for hosting the yearly Association tourments, the fee's for those are included in the entry fee and is NOT a part of the sanction fee. I wish the local association would be MORE tournaments.

I have no problem paying more for sanctioning. I would gladly pay twice as much if we could get more service from them.

1. Work to train the centers to build leagues.
2. Work to improve and STANDARDIZE lane conditions. (Develop a tier of lane conditions for sanctioned bowlers... open house, competition, professional...etc)
3. Work to Stablize other technologies (balls, pins, lane surfaces).
4. Do studies and report to the members on aspects of the industry
5. Provide a long term plan to revitalize the industry.

I could go on and on. But the point seems to me, that USBC does very little when it could do alot more. And while some services they provide are valuable, to me they are falling short of what I want them to do. And paying 25-50% more for the same inadequate services seems rediculous. I agree that every goes up... inflation is not 25% - 50%. But if paying them 50% more will provide the above and more...then hey... I am in and happy.

spmcgivern · « **Reply #17 on:** May 20, 2009, 01:06:50 PM »

quote:
I got my first 300 game ring in 1978... it was 10k gold with ruby and diamond. This was the last year they gave out real gold. Now you have to spend 400+ to get a gold ring. Why dont USBC subsidize the cost of the ring. Its not an award if we have to pay for it. Sure I could take the ONE free ring I get now for a LIFETIME but I can always buy a 14k $700 multi-top 300 game ring.

My local association has a dinner once per year to HONOR the members and a guest who have won award scores, 300's, 299's. 298's and 800's. That's cool. As for hosting the yearly Association tourments, the fee's for those are included in the entry fee and is NOT a part of the sanction fee. I wish the local association would be MORE tournaments.

I have no problem paying more for sanctioning. I would gladly pay twice as much if we could get more service from them.

1. Work to train the centers to build leagues.
2. Work to improve and STANDARDIZE lane conditions. (Develop a tier of lane conditions for sanctioned bowlers... open house, competition, professional...etc)
3. Work to Stablize other technologies (balls, pins, lane surfaces).
4. Do studies and report to the members on aspects of the industry
5. Provide a long term plan to revitalize the industry.

I could go on and on. But the point seems to me, that USBC does very little when it could do alot more. And while some services they provide are valuable, to me they are falling short of what I want them to do. And paying 25-50% more for the same inadequate services seems rediculous. I agree that every goes up... inflation is not 25% - 50%. But if paying them 50% more will provide the above and more...then hey... I am in and happy.

So for you it isn't a matter of the dues being to expensive, but you feel the USBC should be larger and do more thus charge more? I feel for what USBC does, the cost is not too high. The cost is $10 and I feel for $10 the return is adequate. If you want more from USBC, I wouldn't doubt they would be willing to provide extra services, but do you honestly think current league bowlers will be willing to pay more? They already complain about the current rate. Plus, many feel they do a poor job at what they are doing now, but giving them more to do will make it better?
--------------------
I am not a pro-bowler, but I do play one on BallReviews.com

Stan · « **Reply #18 on:** May 20, 2009, 01:43:38 PM »

I don't think the problem is paying an additonal $5, to me its the fact they USBC has no accountability to us the membership. Why did they have to move to Texas and why build a state of the art coaching facility for Team USA. Yes, I know we all can use it, if we want to travel to Texas, You can call it USBC or ABC but its mostly the same people running the show. Bowling centers in my area are constantly closing or reducing the number of lanes for other more profit making attractions. Not to mention that we are losing bowlers every year. The scores/averages are way out of whack and they continue to let the manufacturers dictate how the products we use (balls. lanes, pins, etc.) are designed and released. USBC has lost control of the sport that they are suppose to be controlling. Please remember, without us, they do not have a job. I know its near impossible to ask all its members to vote on something, but when was the last time one of your local association directors asked your opinion on an item that was up for vote ? I have been bowling for near 40 years in 2 to 4 leagues each week, know many of the local directors, and not one of them ever asked my opinion or any of my team members or for that matter, anyone that I know. This is the part that disturbs me the most. USBC runs within it own created click and will do anything they wish. Yes league bonding is very important and creating a yearly average book or seaching online for someones average is helpful but some how they have got to be held accountable to us.

EagleHunter · « **Reply #19 on:** May 20, 2009, 02:31:58 PM »

Stan,
Have you attended any of your local association's annual meetings? These meetings, and the USBC convention, are where the members make their feelings known.

I'm from the Detroit area...you know, home to the largest population of bowlers in the country, as well as the largest local association in the country. At our last annual meeting, there were MAYBE 60 people there, and that is counting the Board members.

Yet our members have NO PROBLEM complaining about anything. Ask them to show up and voice their concerns...nope, too busy to be bothered. I was there and I voiced my concerns...can't say I made too many friends that day. But I was pretty much the only voice in the room willing to question anything.

Same goes for USBC. Detroit can send something like 70+ delegates to the convention to vote on things. I believe I heard that our delegation has NEVER been completely filled.

That is the problem...everyone wants to gripe, but no one wants to put in the time (not even a mere 1-2 hours) to make their concerns known to those that make the decisions.

Atochabsh · « **Reply #20 on:** May 20, 2009, 05:00:25 PM »

Just for the record, honor awards are not once in a lifetime.

At the Townhall meeting (which was also poorly attended)we were told that it would be too expensive for USBC to do that due to the fact that they get a bulk rate deal now. If they were to go once in a lifetime that deal would no longer be in place due to less awards.

Hey Detroit! I think we did better per population at our annual meeting then you guys. We have nearly 10000 bowlers and we struggled to get 30 (including board members).

We're allowed 10 delegates to the National Convention. Our association cannot afford to send them and pay 100%. We pay a small portion but it doesn't count days of meals, hotel rooms and travel expenses. So even though we were "local", the convention being within 120 miles, we could only get 5 delegates there.

Erin

NoseofRI · « **Reply #21 on:** May 20, 2009, 05:41:03 PM »

quote:
I got my first 300 game ring in 1978... it was 10k gold with ruby and diamond. This was the last year they gave out real gold. Now you have to spend 400+ to get a gold ring. Why dont USBC subsidize the cost of the ring. Its not an award if we have to pay for it. Sure I could take the ONE free ring I get now for a LIFETIME but I can always buy a 14k $700 multi-top 300 game ring.

Not sure where you've been but since the late 90's you've had to PAY for the gold ring. Not to mention for those complaining about USBC taking away awards, just think of all the THS out there. I know guys that shoots 10-15 300's and/or 800's a year. The number of "honor" scores increases every year so why should the USBC be asked to shell out more and more for these awards without asking for a little more in return?

And to others about the hike. You're really going to b!tch about this single $5 that covers you for a 52 week span, your 30+ weeks for winter league AND through your summer leagues? Do complain like this when the local bridge raises it's fee which you most likely drive over EVERY DAY? What about all the states that are raising sales tax and other such things. If you don't think your getting anything from your sanction fee, then don't sanction and try to bowl somewhere. Then try to bowl local tournaments. See how far you actually get without having to sanction at all.

And to Aloarjr, did you read the entire post by Eagle, that "handout" stuff that USGA gives is it. The bonding of prize funds for USBC is FAR greater than what USGA gets. Not to mention I don't believe the USGA does anything if say you get a hole-in-one. And why, I ask WHY in the H3LL with today's technology should UBSC be forced to print and copy and create cards for every member when ANYONE can simply go to ANY computer hooked up to the internet, go to www.bowl.com, look up member, and print off your own sanction card, averages, rule book and other such things that you seem to need hard copies for?

You people are just SIMPLY AMAZING

Sleepy was right he did Win

P.S. To Stan I'm not even going to bother, because it's clear by what you've written that you have ABSOLUTELY no clue. USBC isn't losing bowlers because of what they are doing (or not doing according to some). Look at the economy, look at the unemployment and tell me that bowling couldn't possibly be something that some have considered cutting from their expenses.

Edited on 5/20/2009 5:49 PM

pin-chaser · « **Reply #22 on:** May 20, 2009, 08:55:21 PM »

http://www.bowl.com/awards/awardsNewProgram.aspx

Above states 300 game rings are once per lifetime. If this is not true can someone find where it states otherwise?

NoseofRI
THS is NOT new. My first 300 was on a top hat 10 to 10 with no oil placed outside 10 in 1978. I know because I ran the lane machine 3 times per each lane with plastic telescores wrapped around the oil tank. Dont believe for one minute that lane conditions are any easier today than they were even back in the 50's. The big difference is the lane surface, the pins and the balls... not the conditions. The night the budweisers shot 3858 they were on THS (I talked with Don Carter about that night having bowled with him in the 70's).

As for where I have been, I did not bowl the entire 90's I agree but have bowled on and off since 2000. I have had 18 300 before the 90's and 11 since returning. So I know since 1979 that if you wanted gold you had to pay for it. And the reason they did this was because of the amount of award scores because of THS.

EagleHunter · « **Reply #23 on:** May 20, 2009, 10:41:07 PM »

pin-chaser,
I'm not sure where you got that page from...I searched the entire "Awards" page on www.bowl.com and couldn't find the page you linked. As a for a link regarding the award change, see below:

http://www.bowl.com/articleView.aspx?i=14079&f=8

"USBC Board postpones changes in awards program
3/13/2008

The United States Bowling Congress Board of Directors has decided to postpone any changes in the awards program for one year, and has promised to review the previously-announced "once-in-a-lifetime" proposal during that time.

That means the awards program currently in place for the 2007-08 season will remain in place for 2008-09 while the entire program is once again reviewed."

I haven't seen any updates to this, but something should be coming soon to clarify.

Atochabsh · « **Reply #24 on:** May 21, 2009, 12:23:53 AM »

Pin....that's not the listing we got just recently at the TownMeeting in Feb. In fact at the TownMeeting most of the special achievement awards are going to be redeemable online as a certificate or purchasable trinket. We were distinctly told from the lips, that honor awards were not going once in a lifetime. Adults and older kids are to get refridgerator magnets for what awards will be given out and only the younger youth will have pins and emblems.

Now I don't know where they have come up with this list. But its totally different from what we've been told.

But if they've changed in the last 3 months it wouldn't surprise me. And of course the membership had no vote either way.

Erin

pin-chaser · « **Reply #25 on:** May 21, 2009, 12:37:36 PM »

Well I do apologize as I stand corrected. Additional research as shown there is a 1 your moritorium through this year (I did not know) about lifetime awards. A new statement will be release by Fall stating the official stance on this.

Stan · « **Reply #26 on:** May 21, 2009, 02:58:46 PM »

NoseofRI, guess I am clueless. What you are saying is the decline in membership is due to the economy. How long has the economy been bad ? Membership has been on the decline for over 20 years. USBC has published that every year since 1997-98 membership had dropped and so has the number of bowling centers. This is stated on their web site. Not sure how old or how smart you are, but the economy was real good the 90's. If I could find the publication, I will list the total members for at least the past 20 years and you will see, if you can read, the amount of members that were lost. Actually, since 97 the membership dropped in half and we have lost over 1500 bowling centers.

My point in my post, again reading skills required, was accountability. At the current pace, if nothing is done to correct the problems, ten pin bowling will be gone in the next 10 years. Most of the same people have been at the helm of ABC/USBC over this timeframe. Result, lost membership and closed centers.

Yes, I know there are meetings at the local association that I could attend. First off, seldom are they advertised and when they are, they are 1 or 2 days away. Granted, its my fault for not attendting some of them but why can't the house rep come around and talk to some of the bowlers during league night ? So, I will take some blame for not attending and not gettng my voice heard.

Smash49 · « **Reply #27 on:** May 21, 2009, 03:20:07 PM »

I believe the 40% of an associations members are seniors. In our association 37 of the 284 members are over 65. 102 of the bowlers are over 50. One of the problems I see is there is not enough being done to bring in new blood to the sport. What is USBC doing to bring in new people to the sport and having them join leagues? Some people may say that is the proprietors job? But it takes both parties make things work.

Smash49
--------------------
Smash49

Slick, tacky, wood or synthetic it does not matter your slide is correct with SLSM Designs Bowlers Slide Sock. The Finest Slide Sock on the Planet!!!
www.bowlersslidesock.com
Striking Cat Bowling Pro Shop, Duncan Oklahoma! IBPSIA Certified Technician
www.strikingcatbowling.com

Smash49 · « **Reply #28 on:** May 21, 2009, 03:51:46 PM »

The previous owner of our center required bowlers to bowl 36 week leagues. This is a long time to bowl any league. We are going to 16 and 32 week leagues and also using a new flex schedule league. After bowling 36 weeks the last thing many people want to do is bowl the summer.

Smash49
--------------------
Smash49

Slick, tacky, wood or synthetic it does not matter your slide is correct with SLSM Designs Bowlers Slide Sock. The Finest Slide Sock on the Planet!!!
www.bowlersslidesock.com
Striking Cat Bowling Pro Shop, Duncan Oklahoma! IBPSIA Certified Technician
www.strikingcatbowling.com

khforest · « **Reply #29 on:** May 21, 2009, 04:04:57 PM »

Wow, you mention money and everyone that understands google posts what they know...

The awards are changing - they will not be once in a life time.

With you CERTIFICATION fee you will also recieve exclusive benefits much like those that belong to AAA and AARP and maybe the NRA...

Instead of BELLY ACHING about everything - GET INVOLVED...

Here is link to everything that presented your Local/State association delgates...

http://www.bowl.com/associations/ Look Along the right hand side...

Flame all you want, but the USBC of the future will look nothing like the days of the old ABC and WIBC...

KF

quote:
http://www.bowl.com/awards/awardsNewProgram.aspx

Above states 300 game rings are once per lifetime. If this is not true can someone find where it states otherwise?

NoseofRI
THS is NOT new. My first 300 was on a top hat 10 to 10 with no oil placed outside 10 in 1978. I know because I ran the lane machine 3 times per each lane with plastic telescores wrapped around the oil tank. Dont believe for one minute that lane conditions are any easier today than they were even back in the 50's. The big difference is the lane surface, the pins and the balls... not the conditions. The night the budweisers shot 3858 they were on THS (I talked with Don Carter about that night having bowled with him in the 70's).

As for where I have been, I did not bowl the entire 90's I agree but have bowled on and off since 2000. I have had 18 300 before the 90's and 11 since returning. So I know since 1979 that if you wanted gold you had to pay for it. And the reason they did this was because of the amount of award scores because of THS.

al_g · « **Reply #30 on:** May 21, 2009, 04:14:05 PM »

quote:
I have no problem paying more for sanctioning. I would gladly pay twice as much if we could get more service from them.

See:
http://www.bowl.com/memberrewards/main.aspx
http://www.bowl.com/articleView.aspx?i=14877&f=1

As said in other posts, the leagues being bonded is a big deal. I've heard enough stories of secretaries/treasurers running off with league funds. I was asked to audit a league this year for fear an officer had lost or misappropriated about 50%(7-8K) of the prize fund. Luckily it ended up being nothing but a communication and procedural issue on money handling between two of the league officers. Had it been an issue we could've recovered the money because of the USBC bonding policy.

Also notice that membership gets you 10% off of certain motels rates and 12% off of T-mobile bills amongst other discounts. Is this too little service for $10? A 1-2 night stay at one of the motels listed or using T-mobile would equal or exceed the $10-15 membership fee.

quote:
1. Work to train the centers to build leagues.

When I was a league secretary I remember getting mail from the USBC on new league ideas and how to build leagues. I guess my question is whose responsibility is it to build leagues? The USBC, BPAA, the center, league officers, regular bowlers? The answer is probably all of the above.

How many additional people would the USBC have to employ to train cernters? That would definitely increase dues. IMO expecting the USBC to do most or all of the work is like expecting the government to provide for all of your needs - it's not going to happen.

I do think this hits on the biggest issue affecting bowling though. How do we get more people interested in bowling? The USBC and other resources are good for ideas but you need a good proprietor willing to work with you and committed people at the local level do a majority of the work to make it work. You may have to change from what's been done in the past. Shorter leagues, 2,3,4 person teams, fun nights, league tournaments, etc. Things like this can bring in more people but I think a lot of proprietors are set in their ways and too concerned with keeping what they have. As a result they're slowly losing league bowlers. Society has changed and you have to adapt.

My Thursday night scratch league was down to six 5 person teams(30 people) 10 year ago. By shortening the season from 35 to 30 weeks, going to 4 person teams and expanding the end of year league tournament we went to twelve 4 man teams(48 people) the first year and have been at 16-18 teams(64-72 people) the last 3 years. If no one had been willing to change the status quo that league would've died.

quote:
2. Work to improve and STANDARDIZE lane conditions. (Develop a tier of lane conditions for sanctioned bowlers... open house, competition, professional...etc)

Isn't that what they're already doing with Sport/PBA leagues and tournaments? House shot = anything goes. You want tougher conditions/competition move on to a sport/PBA league or tournament.

quote:
3. Work to Stablize other technologies (balls, pins, lane surfaces).

Aren't they doing the research already?

Specs and Certification
http://www.bowl.com/specs/main.aspx
There's various links to ball, lane, pin and lane condioning research from there.

Now changing the rules or making manufacturers follow their lead is another story. Personally I think the idea of sport bowling is addressing this for those that want it. By modifying the conditions you can come close to negating the effect of pin and ball technology.

quote:
4. Do studies and report to the members on aspects of the industry

Good idea. I didn't find anything on this but it could already be out there and I missed it. Maybe this is more the area of the BPAA?

quote:
5. Provide a long term plan to revitalize the industry.

It looks like the USBC has a strategic plan but this has to be the shortest reading plan I've ever seen, lol.
http://www.bowl.com/Downloads/pdf/convention/09/Strategic_Planning_Committee_Report_website.pdf

I would think the BPAA would have something similar as well.

I don't mean to pick on you pin-chaser and I hope you don't think I am. You obviously have thought a lot about this and have well thought out suggestions/questions. I think the answers to most of these questions are there if bowlers would look for it. It took me all of 10-15 minutes to find all of the links above on bowl.com.

I think bowling's biggest issue is decreasing numbers, not a $10-15 sanction fee.

Edited on 5/21/2009 4:18 PM

Author Topic: USBC dues hike (Read 8589 times)

Atochabsh

USBC dues hike

pin-chaser

Re: USBC dues hike

spmcgivern

Re: USBC dues hike

Stan

Re: USBC dues hike

EagleHunter

Re: USBC dues hike

Atochabsh

Re: USBC dues hike

NoseofRI

Re: USBC dues hike

pin-chaser

Re: USBC dues hike

EagleHunter

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Atochabsh

Re: USBC dues hike

pin-chaser

Re: USBC dues hike

Stan

Re: USBC dues hike

Smash49

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Smash49

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khforest

Re: USBC dues hike

al_g

Re: USBC dues hike