BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: SVstar34 on April 24, 2018, 12:53:33 PM
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https://bowl.com/News/NewsDetails.aspx?id=23622331019
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Saw it just after the release was made. Stupid.
Gonna be a lot of plug work going on.
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So how does this apply to a bowler that does not use a thumb? Do they still get to use the "thumb hole" as a "weight hole"? Advantage?
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So how does this apply to a bowler that does not use a thumb? Do they still get to use the "thumb hole" as a "weight hole"? Advantage?
From the article:
With the elimination of balance holes, bowlers may have up to five holes for gripping purposes and all gripping holes must be used on every delivery.
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In before all the people saying they're going to quit because of this.
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"The change allowing only a dry towel to clean bowling balls during competition becomes effective Aug. 1, 2019. It eliminates the use of liquid cleaners of any kind during competition, which aligns with other changes to ensure equipment is not manipulated during competition."
GREAT when there are foreign substances deposited by the lanes on my ball is Chad 'the fuckhead' Murphy gonna come clean that shit off my ball? Fuck the USBC! all the sheeple will continue & sing their praises & pay them $$$$.............idiots!
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In before all the people saying they're going to quit because of this.
^^^^^^^^^ YES!
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GOOD.
BUT,
Eliminating weight holes is not the only change.
Several other things changing as well, so why focus only on weight holes?
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GOOD.
BUT,
Eliminating weight holes is not the only change.
Several other things changing as well, so why focus only on weight holes?
Because several posters here are, quite likely, to blow their wad. It's to be expected.
That being said, I wonder if the dry towel thing includes a shammy?
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Since they are outlawing several things I got one more for them...............
paying any more fees/dues to these jack-clowns!
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GOOD.
BUT,
Eliminating weight holes is not the only change.
Several other things changing as well, so why focus only on weight holes?
Because several posters here are, quite likely, to blow their wad. It's to be expected.
That being said, I wonder if the dry towel thing includes a shammy?
As long as it's dry, what can they say?
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"The change allowing only a dry towel to clean bowling balls during competition becomes effective Aug. 1, 2019. It eliminates the use of liquid cleaners of any kind during competition, which aligns with other changes to ensure equipment is not manipulated during competition."
GREAT when there are foreign substances deposited by the lanes on my ball is Chad 'the fuckhead' Murphy gonna come clean that shit off my ball? Fuck the USBC! all the sheeple will continue & sing their praises & pay them $$$$.............idiots!
Agreed. It also doesn't say that BPAA owners must keep the lanes and pin setting equipment clean, does it? They wouldn't dare make the owners do anything.
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GOOD.
BUT,
Eliminating weight holes is not the only change.
Several other things changing as well, so why focus only on weight holes?
Because several posters here are, quite likely, to blow their wad. It's to be expected.
That being said, I wonder if the dry towel thing includes a shammy?
As long as it's dry, what can they say?
I just didn't know if shammy was included in the "dry towel" description is all...I didn't know how literal "towel" was to be taken.
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That being said, I wonder if the dry towel thing includes a shammy?
That is actually one that I was wondering about myself. What constitutes a “dry towel�
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GOOD.
BUT,
Eliminating weight holes is not the only change.
Several other things changing as well, so why focus only on weight holes?
Because that one will cost bowlers money to pay for the plugging. It’ll be the big one to start.
The rest will get their time in the limelight.
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Reading the comments on the FB post about this. Some are talking about two handlers having to put an X where their palm will sit on the ball to denote which side they’re using. Not seeing it in the release. Is anyone else seeing that?
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Psycaz,
Yes, and we ALL probably have stuff with extra holes in them, I know I do.
BUT, I will plug the holes and keep right on using them.
And many will have new stuff by then anyway, so...................
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Reading the comments on the FB post about this. Some are talking about two handlers having to put an X where their palm will sit on the ball to denote which side they’re using. Not seeing it in the release. Is anyone else seeing that?
OUCH. There goes that “triangle drill†that some two handlers are using.
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(https://www.ballreviews.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sickchirpse.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F08%2FRandy-ectoplasm.jpg&hash=d8a689da9c4d7d3d68f816ab24914d6b7007b61a)
^^^^^^^^
Many bowlers right now
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Sweet rule change. I see me making bank when this hits as everyone will want the "old" stuff that doesn't have to conform to the new rule.
But on another note, has anyone EVER seen someone drilling a hole deeper in the ball during competition? I didn't even know that was a thing... :o
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So I throw with 2 fingers, no thumb, does this mean I'll only be allowed to drill 2 fingers now? Not being a smart ass just generally curious as I had to do away with a balance hole and a thumb hole both on a ball a few years ago
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So I throw with 2 fingers, no thumb, does this mean I'll only be allowed to drill 2 fingers now? Not being a smart ass just generally curious as I had to do away with a balance hole and a thumb hole both on a ball a few years ago
"..........With the elimination of balance holes, bowlers may have up to five holes for gripping purposes and all gripping holes must be used on every delivery..............."
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Psycaz,
Yes, and we ALL probably have stuff with extra holes in them, I know I do.
BUT, I will plug the holes and keep right on using them.
And many will have new stuff by then anyway, so...................
I have stuff with a balance hole. I really don’t care about having to plug them. My son does too. It’ll just be a mess for the shops to plug all this stuff. Folks will need to give shops lead time to get the work done.
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Video answers a lot of questions, like YES, TWO HANDERS HAVE TO MARK THE SIDE OF THE BALL WHERE IT WILL BE HELD.
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Smoke and mirrors, nothing to really worry about in my mind here. Junk on the ball comes off with some firm scrubbing with a shammy, which will still be legal. Nano tech will probably go by the wayside, so I'm buying a few cases of Idols, but nothing really to worry about.
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I’m assuming that .054 Differential is also in effect as I understood.... Someone clarify this please......
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USBC has also released another statement regarding these things remaining the same in 2020
Top tier bowlers are going to still whack everyone.
House shots are still going to be easier than a mother_
It will get harder and harder to find sponsors
Chad Murphy's ego will get bigger
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I drill everything pin over bridge and cg in center so doesn't affect me.
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What changes are going to be made to static weight restrictions? Once you plug the hole it's about a 90% chance that thing is going to be out of spec on the dodo.
Or did the squad of Chad Murphy yes-men not think that through yet?
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Thanks Juggernaut
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Upped it to 3oz across the board.
What changes are going to be made to static weight restrictions? Once you plug the hole it's about a 90% chance that thing is going to be out of spec on the dodo.
Or did the squad of Chad Murphy yes-men not think that through yet?
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They didn't touch differential, still .060. Lol I don't know where people are getting stuff that wasn't there, or aren't getting stuff that's explicitly stated. Heckin confused.
I’m assuming that .054 Differential is also in effect as I understood.... Someone clarify this please......
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Starting in Jan. 2020 they will allow up to 3 oz of static imbalance.
The weight hole restriction doesn't go into effect until Aug. 2020.
So if you plug just the weight hole you will most likely be legal.
All this hand wringing over nothing.
And 95% of the stuff that has weight holes you won't be using in 2 years.
So what you can't use liquid cleaners during competition. I know of very few that use cleaners during competition. Clean your ball before or after.
The oil absorbtion rule will have more effect than anything and old balls have been grandfathered in.
So many complain for the USBC to do something and then they do they all cry foul.
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3 OZ of side weight?!?!?! My ball is going to hook a ton more now!!
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3 OZ of side weight?!?!?! My ball is going to hook a ton more now!!
Oh, don't you know statics don't make any difference. :)
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Starting in Jan. 2020 they will allow up to 3 oz of static imbalance.
The weight hole restriction doesn't go into effect until Aug. 2020.
So if you plug just the weight hole you will most likely be legal.
All this hand wringing over nothing.
And 95% of the stuff that has weight holes you won't be using in 2 years.
So what you can't use liquid cleaners during competition. I know of very few that use cleaners during competition. Clean your ball before or after.
The oil absorbtion rule will have more effect than anything and old balls have been grandfathered in.
So many complain for the USBC to do something and then they do they all cry foul.
Nicely said sir.
Kudos
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This is an opportunity for somebody to go all Martin Shkreli on us, buy the companies that manufacturer plug materials and rings, and increase the cost of plugging a ball to $100! :o
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"You mean I can have 3oz side and 3oz thumb now?" .....old guys coming out of retirement :-D
I can't wait until the marketing paradigm shift to "The optimal static weight ratio".
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Gary Dickinson will have to learn a new way to shoot his 10-pins! (As will anyone else who only uses the one-finger technique.)
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3 oz total right? So you could have 1.5oz side and 1.5oz finger? etc.?
Not 3oz side & 3oz Thumb?
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"You mean I can have 3oz side and 3oz thumb now?" .....old guys coming out of retirement :-D
I can't wait until the marketing paradigm shift to "The optimal static weight ratio".
With Brunswick leading that shift......after years of telling the masses, well, you know......
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You can have 3 oz of side weights (Negative or Positive).
You can have 3 oz of finger or thumb.
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I read it on a article this past week Luke, that’s where I got that from; This is the USBC we’re talking about, where nothing is safe anymore lol. ;D
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As long as I can forever use a Hy-Road Pearl, I'll keep my bitching to a minimum.
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Where is Nick letting us know that he lead the charge of CGNOMATTAH!?
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Why are we caring so much about weight holes when its the change in oil absorbency that will make the greatest impact on our game?
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Why are we caring so much about weight holes when its the change in oil absorbency that will make the greatest impact on our game?
Because so many people have weight holes in their current equipment that MUST be plugged and they are unsure how their balls will react afterwards.
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CTD industries (makers of That Purple Stuff, among other products) must be hating this. Most of their products are designed to be used during competition to either get more hook, less hook, or increase tackiness.
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So can you be proactive and plug now, or do you have to wait? I doubt many people will choose layouts that will just need to be plugged in a few years.
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Why are we caring so much about weight holes when its the change in oil absorbency that will make the greatest impact on our game?
Because so many people have weight holes in their current equipment that MUST be plugged and they are unsure how their balls will react afterwards.
how many people will have the same balls in 2 years?
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So can you be proactive and plug now, or do you have to wait? I doubt many people will choose layouts that will just need to be plugged in a few years.
Wait. I for one know I probably won’t have at least a few of the balls I currently have in 2 years. Anything new I purchase will not have a weight hole.
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Going to be curious to see what happens to that percentage of leagues sanctioned the USBC brags about. Only way this affects me is might not be able to get drillers to drill a double thumb going forward.
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Question, when does the 3 oz rule start, drilling up a couple balls tonight and now to say, if I go over 1 oz side is not legal yet? I don't keep balls more then 1 year so most likely I'll just drill a hole but just curious on that.
Thanks
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Question, when does the 3 oz rule start, drilling up a couple balls tonight and now to say, if I go over 1 oz side is not legal yet? I don't keep balls more then 1 year so most likely I'll just drill a hole but just curious on that.
Thanks
1/1/2020 3oz static weight allowed, 8/1/2020 no balance holes. In those seven months could see some crazy layouts though.
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Question, when does the 3 oz rule start, drilling up a couple balls tonight and now to say, if I go over 1 oz side is not legal yet? I don't keep balls more then 1 year so most likely I'll just drill a hole but just curious on that.
Thanks
I have the same concern. I am having a ball drilled this week and prefer to the layout to be compliant to the rules in 2020 without a weight hole. The layout that I am drilling will likely require a weight hole under the current static weight rules. Why should I have to drill a weight hole now only to have to plug it later?
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Why are we caring so much about weight holes when its the change in oil absorbency that will make the greatest impact on our game?
Because so many people have weight holes in their current equipment that MUST be plugged and they are unsure how their balls will react afterwards.
how many people will have the same balls in 2 years?
They're not worried about 2 years from now ...
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Usbc is a joke. More craziness to confuse the average joe bowler. What do they plan to accomplish here? Keeping integrity of the game. If they wanted to do that they should have outlawed 2 handlers before it got out of control. To late now. Great legends, and shot makers of the past like earl, and dick Weber are rolling in their graves. Only thing guaranteed from usbc by 2020 is raising of our dues again. Hey chad where the fu*ck are all the dues increases going? Certainly not for 300/800 awards anymore.
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For all of those people who put P4 holes in your Venom Shock Pearl to make them roll better, sorry!
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No more RICO layouts. What is JustRico going to do?
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Question, when does the 3 oz rule start, drilling up a couple balls tonight and now to say, if I go over 1 oz side is not legal yet? I don't keep balls more then 1 year so most likely I'll just drill a hole but just curious on that.
Thanks
I have the same concern. I am having a ball drilled this week and prefer to the layout to be compliant to the rules in 2020 without a weight hole. The layout that I am drilling will likely require a weight hole under the current static weight rules. Why should I have to drill a weight hole now only to have to plug it later?
If you need the weight hole to make it legal today then yes you need to do it. And yes you will have to plug it in two years to make it legal again.
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For all of those people who put P4 holes in your Venom Shock Pearl to make them roll better, sorry!
Lol. I just put a p3 hole in a ball that had been pretty marginal and it came to life. To be fair it was a test using a 5+" pin that could have been avoided by drilling stronger.
In all seriousness, I'm interested in what the oil absortion specs will actually change
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For all of those people who put P4 holes in your Venom Shock Pearl to make them roll better, sorry!
Was just going to say this. UBSC is taking away a possible cheap fix for a bad reacting bowling ball. I've had this done on several of my bowling balls to make them better reacting.
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For all of those people who put P4 holes in your Venom Shock Pearl to make them roll better, sorry!
Started to post something to that effect in that thread but held off so wasn't accused of being a chicken little. The P4 in my Venom Shock solid makes that ball my first out of bag. Highly doubt I ever plug it. Funny thing you don't have to be sanctioned to enjoy bowling.
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Why are we caring so much about weight holes when its the change in oil absorbency that will make the greatest impact on our game?
The studies found that the weight hole could be used to increase the diff - in some instances, taking a .055 ball and making it .070 with proper size and placement of additional hole in the ball. That is why the weight hole issues is being addressed now.
I also believe there are no current production balls that "fail" the oil absorption test.
this will be an moving target for several years as they perfect the testing methods
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After all is said and done it will still come down to the bowler. Can he hit his intended target and ball motion with some degree of consistency? If so, he will be just fine.
Just as it is now, in 2020 we will be able to influence ball motion effectively with surface changes and some versatility from the bowler. I know, I know... HERESY!!
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Does anyone think scores might go up? Less transition, less moving around, etc
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For all of those people who put P4 holes in your Venom Shock Pearl to make them roll better, sorry!
damn bro
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Does anyone think scores might go up? Less transition, less moving around, etc
100%. Which is why I am in favor of the oil absorption rule. Split on the hole rule. New cores will be developed to offset the hole. Tech will evolve around the rules. Just like when usbc threw in the 060 rule years ago.
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Why are we caring so much about weight holes when its the change in oil absorbency that will make the greatest impact on our game?
The studies found that the weight hole could be used to increase the diff - in some instances, taking a .055 ball and making it .070 with proper size and placement of additional hole in the ball. That is why the weight hole issues is being addressed now.
I also believe there are no current production balls that "fail" the oil absorption test.
this will be an moving target for several years as they perfect the testing methods
The editor over at BTM (oh and he is a mechanical engineer who also designed the Blueprint ball simulation software) showed pretty convincingly how this rule change isn't going to have the intended effect. Diff is only correlated with hook to a certain point. Most .070 balls won't actually hook more than a .055. Still didn't stop me from picking up a Visionary Immortal recently with a .078 diff undrilled just as a big FU to the USBC. The heck of it is don't think my driller is going to need a balance hole for it with drilling I had in mind so it will be perfectly legal in late 2020 as well even though the diff may be pushing .1 drilled. At least if they argued they are outlawing balance holes to decrease the intermediate diff after drilling to reduce angularity they might have an argument but not the one I heard they made.
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As HackJandy just explained, the weight hole limitation won't have much effect on total hook. It will change the shot shape adjustment you can get. It really reduces the ability of a good ball driller to optimize the ball to satisfy their customer.
I am curious about the oil absorption test. I want to see where current balls score relative to the limits. I also want to know if surface makes a difference on the test. It looked like they were testing a sanded rhino. More oil, but no more absorption will lead to lower grit surfaces. Maybe a greater trade off in traction and back end.
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Does anyone think scores might go up? Less transition, less moving around, etc
The actual factor in all of this is the coverstock oil absorption portion. We have no reference as of now for what is or isn't in compliance to see where this will be when it goes in affect. If everything today is in compliance then scores will not change. If we find out what is some out of compliance and what's barely in then we know what the limitations are.
That part is interesting
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I'm calling it. Resin balls with pancakes and people drilling them with 3oz finger and side. They're coming back in vogue.
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Top companies like storm, Ebinite, and Brunswick that have the $ to research won’t be affected as much as the lesser companies. Top companies will come up with a new technology to combat the oil absorption rule. They always do. They will still make hook monsters that are useless for my game. All I need is my hyroad, label drill.
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Just drilled a fresh hyroad hack, reacts totally different than my old benchmark hyroad. Much more reaction down lane, with much more overall hook. I think it’s because of the fresh polished cover. I’m sure it will calm down with some games on it. Not ready to retire the old one yet.
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Just drilled a fresh hyroad hack, reacts totally different than my old benchmark hyroad. Much more reaction down lane, with much more overall hook. I think it’s because of the fresh polished cover. I’m sure it will calm down with some games on it. Not ready to retire the old one yet.
I hear ya. Still the only duplicate ball I have ever bought. Really like mine with the P4 (sorry deleted first message, got called out as being that guy who crap floods posts so touchy about that). Odds are good I only bowl unsanctioned leagues than ever plug it but nice just in case to have a spare instead of plugging my favorite strike ball yet again.
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Sure am glad we got some reading material.Was getting tired of only reading about Storm And Roto Grip stuff. :o
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Lol, ahh the Weber chop. Haven’t seen that on tv in awhile. Poor Pete is feeling his age, finally. Still a freak talent.
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But on another note, has anyone EVER seen someone drilling a hole deeper in the ball during competition? I didn't even know that was a thing... :o
I didn't even know that was a thing either! The closest I ever saw to that was years ago when I went to my first nationals.
A team mate at check in before we ever bowled had a ball they said had too much finger weight and they told him take it over to one of the booths and they'd drill it out, So He took it over to the Hammer booth.
They took a bit barely bigger than a pencil and ran it down through the hole in both grips. I thought the bit would come out the other side they ran it in so far.
The ball passed then, But it wouldn't hook for nothing after that though even after he came back home it went straight as arrow.
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So in 2020 you are allowed to have up to 3oz of finger/side/thumb weight. If I drilled a ball to have 0 finger and 0 thumb weight, then used lead tape in either my fingers or thumb, I could effectively change the reaction of my ball during competition by adding or removing the tape. You could go from 3oz finger one frame to 3oz thumb the next...awesome!
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So in 2020 you are allowed to have up to 3oz of finger/side/thumb weight. If I drilled a ball to have 0 finger and 0 thumb weight, then used lead tape in either my fingers or thumb, I could effectively change the reaction of my ball during competition by adding or removing the tape. You could go from 3oz finger one frame to 3oz thumb the next...awesome!
It would be illegal, lead is a metal and you can't put metal in a ball.
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So in 2020 you are allowed to have up to 3oz of finger/side/thumb weight. If I drilled a ball to have 0 finger and 0 thumb weight, then used lead tape in either my fingers or thumb, I could effectively change the reaction of my ball during competition by adding or removing the tape. You could go from 3oz finger one frame to 3oz thumb the next...awesome!
It would be illegal, lead is a metal and you can't put metal in a ball.
Okay, so some type of heavy tape
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So all my equipment with balance holes drilled to conform with the stupid rules regarding static weights, will now have to be plugged to conform with the new static rules?
Hey USBC --- F&CK @FF !
I don't see me plugging all my weight holes on $200 + dollar equipment that was INTENTIONALLY drilled with a weight hole to MAKE IT LEGAL.
Oil absorbtion rule .. Awesome.
Use all the gripping holes .. people that take a finger out of the ball to shoot spares (shotmaking anyone ??) will be penalized AND THE 2 HANDERS get to keep doing their thing ???. Seems counterintuitive.
No Balance Holes? STUPID !
I'm glad I play golf.
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So in 2020 you are allowed to have up to 3oz of finger/side/thumb weight. If I drilled a ball to have 0 finger and 0 thumb weight, then used lead tape in either my fingers or thumb, I could effectively change the reaction of my ball during competition by adding or removing the tape. You could go from 3oz finger one frame to 3oz thumb the next...awesome!
Yeah, but cancer.....
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Are vent holes for thumb hole illegal now.
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Why not??
No more RICO layouts. What is JustRico going to do?
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#noholesmatter #throwitnib
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Why not??
No more RICO layouts. What is JustRico going to do?
The Rico needs a hole 6 3/4" on a 45 degree angle from the pin (center of grip). Without the hole (and it's placement) it's not a Rico.
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One thing that seems to be not so evident here is that no one should have to plug their whole ball, unless they want to.
Assuming it's legal now, they just need to plug the balance hole and the ball would be way under the new 3 oz static weight rule. Currently the ball should have less than 1 oz static weight...
Having said that, do I think USBC is opening a huge can of worms? Yes, I do.
Where will this ever end? These changes, along with not cleaning your ball with an APPROVED by USBC cleaner, are probably the tip of the iceberg of USBC meddling and trying to fix things that may not be broken in order to justify their existence.
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The only rule change I don't care for is the cleaner rule.We get really bad belt marks at times here.A dry towel will not get it off.Its usually in the track of the ball and can make your ball hook much more. :'(
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The only thing that will really change, is pro shops will learn to use the pin placement to create flare, instead of trying to use a balance hole to alter the shape of the core, after a too weak of pin placement. Any good ball driller already knows this.
Oil absorption rate is a big ado about nothing. You can create traction with peaks and valleys, you don't necessarily need a highly porous cover material.
again, the USBC has scratched their "knee" when it is the elbow that itches.
The only possible conflict I can see, is if a shop tries to get close to the limits of 3oz because of a ball with a lot of top weight, you don't have a remedy to fix it with an X hole. Probably want to stay closer to 2.5 to be safe, because sometimes things just happen when you start drilling into these cores, that you don't necessarily expect.
They could've allowed a longer time period like say a full year to allow the 3oz rule to be in place before no X holes. Anyone who has worked in the pro shop knows bowlers will be showing up on Thursday night to get their ball fixed for Friday.
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It was apparently said by Cahd in the media conference call last night that NO current cover falls outside the acceptable absorption range, the fastest absorption rate on the market right now is 2.38.
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It was apparently said by Cahd in the media conference call last night that NO current cover falls outside the acceptable absorption range, the fastest absorption rate on the market right now is 2.38.
So essentially a ceiling in place we haven't hit yet anyways. Doesn't make a difference to me as I can't use the strongest cover pieces in my local centers now anyways.
I see folks mentioning a remedy for balls that get drilled ending with >3 oz static weight. As ball studies prove it's rather irrelevant, they might as well have went 5 oz limits.
Dry towel only rule in regards to belt marks etc. I agree with the fact that centers equipment can reek havoc on balls sometimes. I think there should be an amendment that allows tournament directors/proprietors the right to approve the cleaning of these instances as it is unfair to the bowler.
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You have 2 complete bowling seasons to either get new equipment or have your ball plugged. You can use a balance hole ball until August 1, 2020. So that means you can use your current balls in the 2018-2019 and 2019-2020 seasons.
This will not effect scoring as most houses will simply modify their house shots to bring scoring up to its current levels.
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Let's read between the lines here. So USBC will allow 3 oz of static weights, yet not allow any holes in the future.
So, in their research, even 3 oz won't alter the ball motion enough to worry about. Therefore, no pro shop has any business trying to get extra close to 3 oz, instead of 2 oz, or even 1 oz.
Of course, all of this depends on whether or not you think their research is sound...
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So all my equipment with balance holes drilled to conform with the stupid rules regarding static weights, will now have to be plugged to conform with the new static rules?
Hey USBC --- F&CK @FF !
I don't see me plugging all my weight holes on $200 + dollar equipment that was INTENTIONALLY drilled with a weight hole to MAKE IT LEGAL.
Oil absorbtion rule .. Awesome.
Use all the gripping holes .. people that take a finger out of the ball to shoot spares (shotmaking anyone ??) will be penalized AND THE 2 HANDERS get to keep doing their thing ???. Seems counterintuitive.
No Balance Holes? STUPID !
I'm glad I play golf.
From these rules changes, I see a distinct drop in attendance at USBC Nationals, and I see quite a number of leagues going unsanctioned! Which will be a drop in revenues!!
I for one am not re-plugging my equipment! Hey USBC --- F&CK @FF !
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Is it just me or does it seem like USBC is trying to drive away the people who know bowling and care about bowling? All they are doing is making things more difficult. Especially for bowlers who want to truly compete in the sport. Does not seem to me like they care about the sport at all. How can we get rid of Chad Murphy? I take it he is behind this? >:(
Makes me want to seek out an unsanctioned league...
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I can actually see what Jesse James is referring to in regards to leagues not sanctioning anymore. So if a guy bowls 2 leagues with one being non-sanctioned, he'll need another bag of equipment for one or the other, assuming he wants to use the ILLEGAL equipment.
We have a few leagues that don't sanction, and I'm just waiting to hear about a league officer leaving town with their prize fund (no longer bonded with USBC).
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I never thought 3 extra ounces on one side of a 240 ounce ball would matter anyway.
Let's read between the lines here. So USBC will allow 3 oz of static weights, yet not allow any holes in the future.
So, in their research, even 3 oz won't alter the ball motion enough to worry about. Therefore, no pro shop has any business trying to get extra close to 3 oz, instead of 2 oz, or even 1 oz.
Of course, all of this depends on whether or not you think their research is sound...
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I can actually see what Jesse James is referring to in regards to leagues not sanctioning anymore. So if a guy bowls 2 leagues with one being non-sanctioned, he'll need another bag of equipment for one or the other, assuming he wants to use the ILLEGAL equipment.
We have a few leagues that don't sanction, and I'm just waiting to hear about a league officer leaving town with their prize fund (no longer bonded with USBC).
This is a good point Notclay!! But this has happened already in USBC sanctioned leagues! So if it happens........it happens!
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The sanction vs non-sanction issue may be a avenue that USBC in their "infinite Wisdom" did not think about ... Will be interesting
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Can I add heavier materials to my current balance hole before plugging to get 3 oz of side weight?
*not a serious question.
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Why not just do away with static imbalance rules all together?
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Can I add heavier materials to my current balance hole before plugging to get 3 oz of side weight?
*not a serious question.
Yeah but it is! Scenario: you drilled a large weight hole to get less than 1oz now. In 2 yrs you gotta plug it up, right. When you do w/ just epoxy plug it goes over the 3 oz limit. What now USBC? Throw it away, redrill or spend $200 more on new? AND don't think someone won't fill some wgt holes w/ lead etc.
Who ends paying in the long run.....we do. Who makes out money wise......ball companies.
Many are forced to buy new. I don't buy new balls every other yr or so. Why? my 5-10-20 yr old 'ancient /obsolete' equip works just fine. I'm not rich & do not jump on the 'latest/ greatest bandwagon' BS. I don't spend $$ just becuz Storm & Brunwick etc. have to stay in business w/ their re-packaged 'old' technology. My stuff works fine now as it did when new. Always follow the money, who benefits from this? The USBC & the Ball companies behind this can go straight to hell!
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Is it just me or does it seem like USBC is trying to drive away the people who know bowling and care about bowling? All they are doing is making things more difficult. Especially for bowlers who want to truly compete in the sport. Does not seem to me like they care about the sport at all. How can we get rid of Chad Murphy? I take it he is behind this? >:(
Makes me want to seek out an unsanctioned league...
I am by no means trying to make an excuse for USBC, but I personally see this as "simplifying" the rules, not make it more difficult. Coming from a pro shop operator of 14 years, I think the new rules will make it easier to get a ball in the hands of the customer, as long as it doesn't have a ridiculous amount of top weight to start.
Also, No hole unless used for a gripping purpose clears up the conflict of the "two-hander" rule regarding the thumb hole being in use, or not. Personally I think it would be great if they said you had to get the opposite hand off the ball once it passes the hip (Tom Smallwoood). As a youth coach, we are starting to have young kids who ARE using the off hand to apply extra spin to the ball (unlike the video of Belmo in slow motion, that he KNOWS he's being filmed, so makes sure to get the hand off quickly). We can't say anything about it, because then people think we are picking on the kids. It has really gotten out of hand, no pun intended.
These rule changes really will have very minimal change for "integrity" sake.
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How much to add into league dues per week to pay the salary of referees on pairs to enforce spot fouls on two handers not "applying extra spin" with off hand?
Referee: (blows whistle, flashes yellow card) FOUL!
I love bowler logic.
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How much to add into league dues per week to pay the salary of referees on pairs to enforce spot fouls on two handers not "applying extra spin" with off hand?
Referee: (blows whistle, flashes yellow card) FOUL!
I love bowler logic.
Hence removing the "off hand" once passing the hip.
I love people who only read part of something.
It's no different than a bowler calling out another bowler for adding surface during a match, or using their opposite hand for a delivery. It happens.
Some day, this kid will bowl league, and by Belmo's law of letting kids bowl how they want, we should let it go, even when he's 36:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xY_5UmpEDQ
#rulesareforchumps
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But who would enforce the "foul" and how would infractions be enforced? In your theoretical, will it be someone at the line? Looking from the side view? From the front view? High Speed 60FPS Cameras? And what about two handers that use the thumb? Is it really that much of an advantage keeping the extra hand on it for another step or two? What about two handers that only have a 350 rev rate?
Ohh.....wait, I get it. These "two hander rules" are only for those that rev it more than the average joe. Gotcha. Maybe we should ban guys that use one hand that can put 550-600 rpms on it too?
We must scale back that power these kids are putting on the ball, and get them in tweener hell where the haters dwell!! LOL.
It's not about "reading half of something", it's about the silliness of illogical rules and theories based in Belmo/Jesper's world-beater image with no practical application in real life.
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Bowlers are the biggest pussies on earth. My god, I swear some of you sit down to piss and bleed once a month.
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Just glad I'm not a PSO. We can't get our equipment plugged here-and-there over the next two years, because the 3oz static weight change doesn't go into effect until January 2020. With the "no hole" rule going into effect in August 2020, that means all plugging needs to get done in that Jan-Aug 2020 window. USBC has to be assuming that most people won't bother plugging current equipment.
The funniest thing about all of this is the USBC video which clearly states that these new rules are designed to maintain the integrity of the oil patterns. In my world, that means scores would go up. But what do I know.
On a positive note, I know the high schools in my area are always looking for donations of old balls that they'll plug and re-drill for their players. Something to consider as you are reevaluating your arsenal.
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(https://i.imgflip.com/29305x.jpg)
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(https://i.imgflip.com/2931g5.jpg)
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F IT ALL! I QUIT! :P :P :P :P ;D
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But who would enforce the "foul" and how would infractions be enforced? In your theoretical, will it be someone at the line? Looking from the side view? From the front view? High Speed 60FPS Cameras? And what about two handers that use the thumb? Is it really that much of an advantage keeping the extra hand on it for another step or two? What about two handers that only have a 350 rev rate?
Ohh.....wait, I get it. These "two hander rules" are only for those that rev it more than the average joe. Gotcha. Maybe we should ban guys that use one hand that can put 550-600 rpms on it too?
We must scale back that power these kids are putting on the ball, and get them in tweener hell where the haters dwell!! LOL.
It's not about "reading half of something", it's about the silliness of illogical rules and theories based in Belmo/Jesper's world-beater image with no practical application in real life.
In order for anything to EVER sell to corporate America, and be legitimized, it is a must that the product be identifiable as superior than anything else.
You cannot sell bowling to corporate America, when a 12 year old can do what a 25, or 35 year old can do. you cannot sell bowling when what you see on TV is what you see in league.
The day a high school soccer, football, basketball, baseball player, or golfer can beat seasoned veterans on a regular basis from the NFL, NBA, etc.. then I will digress.
This all ties into the league level, because you can't offer two completely different products on the recreational level, compared to the professional level. the pros just have to be that much better, at the same product. It would be like comparing basketball players on a 9 foot rim ,compared to standard 10 foot.
The issue is with people that don't think 5 mins beyond the here and now, and how it will affect the future.
but keep using your silly little memes to try and belittle my points, if that makes you feel better about yourself. Just shows lack of character on your part.
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What is the effect on ball motion with up to 3 oz static AND an x-hole? There are 7 months (including nationals) where that would be legal.
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People will come up with other ways to do the same stuff. Why not experiment and drill a bigger and fatter side hole deep into the core then fill it with a lighter plug material. The core is dense, the filler may not be. just an idea. I’m sure in 2 years lots of other concepts will come up.
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What is the effect on ball motion with up to 3 oz static AND an x-hole? There are 7 months (including nationals) where that would be legal.
That would be near impossible to get a hole big enough to create any real change in the core shape, unless you were to put the hole on the "wrong" side of the ball, which in my estimation, would be counter productive to how you would want to create spin, not to mention, would flare over the X hole.
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What is the effect on ball motion with up to 3 oz static AND an x-hole? There are 7 months (including nationals) where that would be legal.
It’s not the side weight itself that will affect ball motion, but now you can drill a giant hole, remove a lot of core and not worry about 1 oz of negative weight.
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#banweightblocks
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#banweightblocks
....along with #standardizedconditions
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My "lack of character" lies in the fact that I can't take this game serious anymore for a number of reasons. None having to do with the bowler one pair over that wants to throw it like Belmo or drill his ball up with the latest trick layout, and everything having to do with curmudgeons and their silly, non-progressive ideas to make the game as exciting as a funeral.
Bowling is the only sport where people want to penalize those with a superior skill set. Especially once athleticism is involved. In any other major sport if there was a 12 year old with some serious, raw natural ability that people could envision seeing as a pro someday the elders foster that talent, work them up through the system on a path to professionalism and make sure that they keep a love for the game. In bowling, it's old timers telling them
"Don't throw the ball like that"
"This is ruining the game"
"You won't be able to maintain that style when you get my age"
....basically everything to take the love out of what the kids like doing. I think it's awesome that the two handers learned how to "hack" the system and take the lane play advantage back from the left side. :D
At the end of the day, we're just talking revrates.
#revENVY
#MBGA
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My "lack of character" lies in the fact that I can't take this game serious anymore for a number of reasons. None having to do with the bowler one pair over that wants to throw it like Belmo or drill his ball up with the latest trick layout, and everything having to do with curmudgeons and their silly, non-progressive ideas to make the game as exciting as a funeral.
Bowling is the only sport where people want to penalize those with a superior skill set. Especially once athleticism is involved. In any other major sport if there was a 12 year old with some serious, raw natural ability that people could envision seeing as a pro someday the elders foster that talent, work them up through the system on a path to professionalism and make sure that they keep a love for the game. In bowling, it's old timers telling them
"Don't throw the ball like that"
"This is ruining the game"
"You won't be able to maintain that style when you get my age"
....basically everything to take the love out of what the kids like doing. I think it's awesome that the two handers learned how to "hack" the system and take the lane play advantage back from the left side. :D
At the end of the day, we're just talking revrates.
#revENVY
#MBGA
Name one high school prodigy in any sport that has ever been able to regularly beat the top pros other than bowling, without FIRST having to learn more at the top level, and get better by honing their craft?
Rev rates keep getting higher, scores are soaring, but participation keeps dwindling. Thinking rev rate sells; the numbers say differently.
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Bill Taylor was ahead of his time. Get rid of oil. #RIPBT
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Bill Taylor was ahead of his time. Get rid of oil. #RIPBT
OMG. You went all Bill Taylor on them?
I knew I liked you..........
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Name one high school prodigy in any sport that has ever been able to regularly beat the top pros other than bowling, without FIRST having to learn more at the top level, and get better by honing their craft?
No one would disagree with that but I could list off about 20-25 examples from basketball, alone. If I named them all, it still serves no meaning to the original message because at this point you're just shifting arguments to something that's so far away from why non-progressive traditionalist thinking is driving away bowlers.
Anytime I ask bowlers who were super competitive at every level of the game how come they don't bowl anymore it comes down to two things. 1) It stopped being fun. 2) There's no money in it.
It's never, "it stopped being fun because of the balls" or the "two handers". But anytime there's a discussion to be had about how to march the game forward and be respected more as a sport topic #1 & #2 from the internet bowling community turns into hate on the two handers from traditionalists, and hate on the equipment from the sourpuss types who benefit the most from the equipment they're hating on.
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Bill Taylor was ahead of his time. Get rid of oil. #RIPBT
OMG. You went all Bill Taylor on them?
I knew I liked you..........
Meeting Bill Taylor was one of the high points of my life! I had to travel to Detroit AND I got my car stolen on the trip, but it was worth it!
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Name one high school prodigy in any sport that has ever been able to regularly beat the top pros other than bowling, without FIRST having to learn more at the top level, and get better by honing their craft?
No one would disagree with that but I could list off about 20-25 examples from basketball, alone. If I named them all, it still serves no meaning to the original message because at this point you're just shifting arguments to something that's so far away from why non-progressive traditionalist thinking is driving away bowlers.
Anytime I ask bowlers who were super competitive at every level of the game how come they don't bowl anymore it comes down to two things. 1) It stopped being fun. 2) There's no money in it.
It's never, "it stopped being fun because of the balls" or the "two handers". But anytime there's a discussion to be had about how to march the game forward and be respected more as a sport topic #1 & #2 from the internet bowling community turns into hate on the two handers from traditionalists, and hate on the equipment from the sourpuss types who benefit the most from the equipment they're hating on.
LeBron James is the only person that I can think of that would be even close to being competitive at a young age. But, it took him time until he got really good and was able to beat the best.
The question then remains why did it stop becoming fun, and why is there not enough money in it to sustain bowlers at a high level?
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My personal opinion is things stop "being fun" for very talented younger bowlers because they see the big picture. From a financial standpoint there's no money in the end game and the elite at the top as so far away from even most top level amatuers on local level that putting in the time, money to practice/equipment/travel to compete, ends up being a zero sum game after you factor in expenses.
Add in the megabucks tournaments being virtually non existent and you have very little to bowl to even recoup your expenses. You have high level amateurs spending $500-1000+ in travel/lodging fees going cross country to bowl tournaments that pay $3-5K on top and 3rd place is barely breaking even on expenses. You have regionals paying out LOL-sums of money for 1st place because instead of making the product (PBA) seem glamorous and inviting to new players, they gave a half assed effort for 25 years into marketing and finding new sponsors. Proprietors no longer care about the game itself, everyone that comes in the door is a dollar sign. They desperately need birthday party money just to not go out of business. Also factor in tournaments shutting out PBA card members, what incentive is there to go pro? Spend 30-40k a year chasing a dream to get your head kicked by the same 10 guys at the top of the PBA food chain? It's all a losing proposition.
There's a gang of reasons why the sport of bowling is dead. The only vigor being brought into the game is at the Collegiate and PWBA level. The PWBA is/was being supported financially off USBC money. Kids are coming out of college 50k in student loan debt while it's $1500/mo for a 1 bedroom apartment in the cities with all of the high paying jobs. They have bigger things to worry about than trying to make a living in a game they grew up loving. Bowling 12 games on the weekend for a $800 1st place tournament with a bunch of other local killers is plugging a leaky boat with chewing gum.
The only remaining constant to all of this, is the mentality that the people in power have had for the past 30 years. They've become so resistant to real change and thinking outside of the box for the greater good that they're just adding more members to the band to play the song on a sinking ship.
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I don't disagree with any of that.
What I am trying to say, is that if bowling was accepted through Corporate America, there would be the money there to have young people want to get involved. In order to get Corporate America involved, you need to offer a product that the layman would see as superior and better than what they see at the local level. It needs to be identifiable, without explanation. You simply can't just alienate generations of bowlers as well as the majority for a select few who can throw it a certain way, and expect to be successful on a global scale. There is a big difference between accepting two handed bowling and ultra high rev rates, and promoting it. We have crossed that line in the industry. Imagine if we had promoted Bob Vespi over a David Ozio or a Brian Voss, and created clinics to teach it.
Randy Pedersen all but shamed the "shot makers" on the masters telecast. It was very disrespectful, and a true measure of what this game has become. Basically, If you don't have a High Rev rate, you are nothing. Some of your comments earlier in this thread also Echo those remarks.
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I can actually see what Jesse James is referring to in regards to leagues not sanctioning anymore. So if a guy bowls 2 leagues with one being non-sanctioned, he'll need another bag of equipment for one or the other, assuming he wants to use the ILLEGAL equipment.
We have a few leagues that don't sanction, and I'm just waiting to hear about a league officer leaving town with their prize fund (no longer bonded with USBC).
Or you bowl unsanctioned just for fun leagues with no prize fund and guess what its cheaper (my doubles league only $11 a person a week and get 2 bonus free games weekly at any Bowlmor) as well with no risk of someone running off with your money. Yes I know many people enjoy bowling for money but its not everyone. Money just seems to make things complicated (as the USBC shows) and I don't want to be that old man I recently saw kicking the ball return in rage during serious league. That is the opposite of fun. To each their own which is why I basically just shrug at the USBC these days. I don't give them money so I just point and laugh. Only the clueless USBC thinks bowling can't exist without their bureaucracy.
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Tommy you’re right on with Randy’s disrespectful comments on the masters show. I mean it came off bad weather he meant it or not. We all now randy has a man crush on fellow storm staffer belmo. I hope randy isn’t part of the new fox telecasts. Bring back Denny, and Durbin My favorite telecast team of all time.
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Tommy you’re right on with Randy’s disrespectful comments on the masters show. I mean it came off bad weather he meant it or not. We all now randy has a man crush on fellow storm staffer belmo. I hope randy isn’t part of the new fox telecasts. Bring back Denny, and Durbin My favorite telecast team of all time.
Denny and Mike Durbin?? SIGN ME THE F UP!
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Randy's a nice guy and all but every show for the past 10+ years has seemed like an all bad version of a Sportscenter tryout.
Mike Flannagan's inside bowling commentary with any guest blows away every form of bowling commentary I've ever heard.
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Hey doom you’re only 16 posts away from a milestone of 5000 posts. Congrats. Lol!
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Hey doom you’re only 16 posts away from a milestone of 5000 posts. Congrats. Lol!
Doom makes them count too. Good guy. Its all about quality and not quantity on posts (hint for me to bugger off and follow the example).
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Yup, I value the opinions of doom, and all you guys. I know it can get ugly on here sometimes, but that’s what makes this forum so entertaining. Can’t ask for anything more than posting your honest opinion. Just my honest opinion. Heck what do I know? I’m just a jr member.
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After 5000 posts, I get to use weight holes. #newusbcrule
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After 5000 posts, I get to use weight holes. #newusbcrule
only at 1500 polish though
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After 5000 posts, I get to use weight holes. #newusbcrule
only at 1500 polish though
I QUIT!!!
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DP3,
The ladies tour uses the same amount or less oil on the lanes as the men's tour, yet their patterns hold up.
The ladies use as strong of layouts, if not stronger than the men do, yet their patterns hold up.
The ladies tour uses as much or often times more surface on their balls then the men do, yet their patterns hold up.
The ladies tour throws high end equipment on their tour at a higher rate than the men do, yet their patterns hold up.
There are very few if any ladies that throw urethane on any regular basis, if ever.
The ladies tour has a lower AVERAGE rev rate than the men's tour.
Kegel has data PROVING that the ladies patterns hold up better than the men's patterns.
Pro Shops sell more high end equipment to league bowlers with lower rev rates, than with a high rev rate, to the fact that design intent of high end product is designed for rev challenged bowlers. Higher rev rate league bowlers gravitate to lower hook potential balls.
All of this will lead a person with common sense to see that the issue of pattern integrity has more to do with rev rate, than it does with the balls "porosity" or "layout", but USBC is attacking the balls. Scratch the knee while it is the elbow that itches. They created this situation by promoting two handed bowling, and offering an avenue to allow bowlers to create more rev rate than what they can without the stability the second hand on the ball allows in the two handed delivery, thus increasing the percentage of higher rev rates. You are always going to have an EJ Tackett or Robert Smith, a Bob Vespi, but now, you have MORE of the high rev rates, because of the promotion of the two handed style.
You see, it has nothing to do with just "whining" about bowlers with a high rev rate, I am doing nothing more than looking at the facts, and forming a LOGICAL conclusion on the said facts that rev rate has more to do with problems of pattern integrity, and the ability to create a stable environment for EVERYONE to be able to showcase their accuracy and repeat-ability. The only way to fix that, is to teach the game from a more traditional style, a style that has longevity and echoes the core foundation of a "lifelong participation" sport; a sport that is the number one participation sport in America. A game that does NOT have corporate America behind it, so you need to be able to make money from it over a longer period of time, because the quick cash grab simply isn't there.
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The USBC promoted two-handed bowling? I'm don't disagree they blow the patterns up, but as a more moderate rev player and slower speed isn't the burden on me to deal with it?
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The USBC promoted two-handed bowling?
Belmo IS the poster boy of the game.
The USBC has now created two handed clinics coaching videos and spent a good deal of time and money on the bio-mechanics of it.
Yes, they are promoting the style.
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The USBC promoted two-handed bowling?
Belmo IS the poster boy of the game.
The USBC has now created two handed clinics coaching videos and spent a good deal of time and money on the bio-mechanics of it.
Yes, they are promoting the style.
But as a bowler that is a "shot-maker" and relies on accuracy, isn't the burden on me to adjust? I've never really been one to put much care into how others deliver the ball.....I've just always thought it was on me to deal with it. I adjust to the conditions, the conditions don't adjust to me. If I need to play up the twig, so be it. If I need to get in to 5th arrow +, so be it.
Take my Nationals crew for example, we do not work together and break down a pair properly. It would certainly make things easier on everyone but then again, it's just not happening. It's just not. I've long since accepted that as part of the deal and if I want to score I have to find a way to work around it/with it. It just is what it is. I'm still able to make money at Nationals and in brackets but I do have to work hard and be very aware of what is happening.
Even though these things affect me, I couldn't support legislation against their personal strategies or method of delivery (that's not me saying that you do or do not). I DO tell them we should work together but at the end of the day I just have to deal w/what I get.......
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DP3,
The ladies tour uses the same amount or less oil on the lanes as the men's tour, yet their patterns hold up.
The ladies use as strong of layouts, if not stronger than the men do, yet their patterns hold up.
The ladies tour uses as much or often times more surface on their balls then the men do, yet their patterns hold up.
The ladies tour throws high end equipment on their tour at a higher rate than the men do, yet their patterns hold up.
There are very few if any ladies that throw urethane on any regular basis, if ever.
The ladies tour has a lower AVERAGE rev rate than the men's tour.
Kegel has data PROVING that the ladies patterns hold up better than the men's patterns.
Pro Shops sell more high end equipment to league bowlers with lower rev rates, than with a high rev rate, to the fact that design intent of high end product is designed for rev challenged bowlers. Higher rev rate league bowlers gravitate to lower hook potential balls.
All of this will lead a person with common sense to see that the issue of pattern integrity has more to do with rev rate, than it does with the balls "porosity" or "layout", but USBC is attacking the balls. Scratch the knee while it is the elbow that itches. They created this situation by promoting two handed bowling, and offering an avenue to allow bowlers to create more rev rate than what they can without the stability the second hand on the ball allows in the two handed delivery, thus increasing the percentage of higher rev rates. You are always going to have an EJ Tackett or Robert Smith, a Bob Vespi, but now, you have MORE of the high rev rates, because of the promotion of the two handed style.
You see, it has nothing to do with just "whining" about bowlers with a high rev rate, I am doing nothing more than looking at the facts, and forming a LOGICAL conclusion on the said facts that rev rate has more to do with problems of pattern integrity, and the ability to create a stable environment for EVERYONE to be able to showcase their accuracy and repeat-ability. The only way to fix that, is to teach the game from a more traditional style, a style that has longevity and echoes the core foundation of a "lifelong participation" sport; a sport that is the number one participation sport in America. A game that does NOT have corporate America behind it, so you need to be able to make money from it over a longer period of time, because the quick cash grab simply isn't there.
Nearly the entire men’s tour has a higher rev rate than anyone on the female tour. That includes the one handers, which is still the vast majority of bowlers.
How do you propose we stop one handers from having high rev rates? How do you suggest we teach kids to bowl with low rev rates if they have more fun producing higher rev rates?
I agree that rev rates are destroying the patterns more than anything. But I don’t think you’re coming to a logical solution based off of that. When golfers were driving the ball too far, they reined in the driver heads, because telling golfers to hit it weaker is a ridiculous suggestion. You’re suggesting we minimize our own athletic abilities, which is just crazy for what is supposed to be an athletic competition.
The options are to reduce the effect that the rev rates have on the lane, or set an environment that takes away the advantage of using a high rev rate style. They’re starting with option 1.
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As an aging senior I have seen what tomygyn is talking about for over 15 years. Same pattern, and I would always score higher and see a more controlled transition of the pattern against other seniors than against the kids. It is really a combination of the shells and the rev rates. With the introduction of the resin balls, high rev players were able to over power patterns rather than play the pattern the way us lower rev guys did. As early ad 1995 I saw young power players go right to 20 board on fresh patterns. Long formats became a thing of the past because patterns wouldn't hold up.
I dont have an answer either. I think you would have to go back to polyester balls to restore a balance where finesse was as important as rev rate, and you couldn't simply over power the pattern.
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So many of the "sport patterns" force bowlers inside. If 10 to the gutter is out of bounds and the friction is in the middle of the lane in the last few feet of the pattern it only makes sense to get further left and play across the middle to keep the ball inside of 10. The further right you get the more over under you have. Lots of different "named patterns" all play the same in this sense.
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Best post ever. Strong equipment was for lower powered bowlers and ever since they started adding more oil, the higher powered bowlers have started using big hook and lots of surface. In combination with big rev rates and crazy flare, patterns are getting destroyed.
It's like taking a par 3 and making it 300 yards so everybody can use their drivers. It's not the equipment, it's not the bowler, it's the patterns. Pros use and win with urethane on drier patterns. Lower volume patterns will degrade slower because bowlers won't use equipment that beats them up so fast. Control the patterns, control the problem. Pros might even start using plastic again if the volumes get reduced, but people want to see new reactive equipment on the tv shows, so volumes on the PBA at least I think have evolved to accommodate that. No reason for companies to have pro staffs if all the pros use are plastic and urethane.
DP3,
The ladies tour uses the same amount or less oil on the lanes as the men's tour, yet their patterns hold up.
The ladies use as strong of layouts, if not stronger than the men do, yet their patterns hold up.
The ladies tour uses as much or often times more surface on their balls then the men do, yet their patterns hold up.
The ladies tour throws high end equipment on their tour at a higher rate than the men do, yet their patterns hold up.
There are very few if any ladies that throw urethane on any regular basis, if ever.
The ladies tour has a lower AVERAGE rev rate than the men's tour.
Kegel has data PROVING that the ladies patterns hold up better than the men's patterns.
Pro Shops sell more high end equipment to league bowlers with lower rev rates, than with a high rev rate, to the fact that design intent of high end product is designed for rev challenged bowlers. Higher rev rate league bowlers gravitate to lower hook potential balls.
All of this will lead a person with common sense to see that the issue of pattern integrity has more to do with rev rate, than it does with the balls "porosity" or "layout", but USBC is attacking the balls. Scratch the knee while it is the elbow that itches. They created this situation by promoting two handed bowling, and offering an avenue to allow bowlers to create more rev rate than what they can without the stability the second hand on the ball allows in the two handed delivery, thus increasing the percentage of higher rev rates. You are always going to have an EJ Tackett or Robert Smith, a Bob Vespi, but now, you have MORE of the high rev rates, because of the promotion of the two handed style.
You see, it has nothing to do with just "whining" about bowlers with a high rev rate, I am doing nothing more than looking at the facts, and forming a LOGICAL conclusion on the said facts that rev rate has more to do with problems of pattern integrity, and the ability to create a stable environment for EVERYONE to be able to showcase their accuracy and repeat-ability. The only way to fix that, is to teach the game from a more traditional style, a style that has longevity and echoes the core foundation of a "lifelong participation" sport; a sport that is the number one participation sport in America. A game that does NOT have corporate America behind it, so you need to be able to make money from it over a longer period of time, because the quick cash grab simply isn't there.
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And if you're on a 30ml pattern, that makes moving left a nightmare unless you use big hook with strong surface to control the midlane to increase consistency. Oil patterns man, lol . .
So many of the "sport patterns" force bowlers inside. If 10 to the gutter is out of bounds and the friction is in the middle of the lane in the last few feet of the pattern it only makes sense to get further left and play across the middle to keep the ball inside of 10. The further right you get the more over under you have. Lots of different "named patterns" all play the same in this sense.
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Nearly the entire men’s tour has a higher rev rate than anyone on the female tour. That includes the one handers, which is still the vast majority of bowlers.
How do you propose we stop one handers from having high rev rates? How do you suggest we teach kids to bowl with low rev rates if they have more fun producing higher rev rates?
I agree that rev rates are destroying the patterns more than anything. But I don’t think you’re coming to a logical solution based off of that. When golfers were driving the ball too far, they reined in the driver heads, because telling golfers to hit it weaker is a ridiculous suggestion. You’re suggesting we minimize our own athletic abilities, which is just crazy for what is supposed to be an athletic competition.
The options are to reduce the effect that the rev rates have on the lane, or set an environment that takes away the advantage of using a high rev rate style. They’re starting with option 1.
I'm not suggesting that you stop a traditionalist from having a higher rev rate, as I said earlier, there will always be the outliers. The difference is because of the number of higher rev rate competitors, the average rev rate has gone through the roof, compared to even 10 years ago. They are putting more oil downlane to placate to the high rev rate ,unlike 10 years ago, when the tour made guys learn to back off of the ball some. Youtube Chris Barnes first show, Mike Fagan, Tommy Jones just to name a few, there are a lot more, that had to learn how to roll it, not just grip and rip the ball, and had to learn to back off the ball at the bottom of the swing. Then look later, they ALL had cleaned up their game to be a more smoothed out version of what they started as.
This idea of not making a young bowler learn to throw it straight is getting ridiculous. Every top pro used to have to learn to throw it differently, or wait until it was there week, or not make it at all, if they didn't conform.
Today, all they do is throw the same release, but use urethane. There's no learning curve, and what it does to the lanes is 10x worse than it was even 10 years ago.
There was a time when hook guys used shiny, tweeners threw matte, and straighties threw dull, to get the best reaction. Patterns held up longer. EVERYONE uses surface today, and it has become a dog chasing it's tail, and will continue, until you at some point say enough is enough.
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OMG really? you can still drill the P3 or P4 weight hole to raise the diff on the balls then plug the hole back up ball will still be legal and you'll get the ball reaction your still looking for its not that big of an issue been doing this since they changed the rules a while back and everybody still gets the same reaction on there equipment :) its the covers that will be the bigger issue to ajust to really looking forward to the new change :)
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Lol no new covers. No ball in current production fails the absorption test. Worst one is 2:38 and the limit is 2:15 lol.
OMG really? you can still drill the P3 or P4 weight hole to raise the diff on the balls then plug the hole back up ball will still be legal and you'll get the ball reaction your still looking for its not that big of an issue been doing this since they changed the rules a while back and everybody still gets the same reaction on there equipment :) its the covers that will be the bigger issue to ajust to really looking forward to the new change :)
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I couldn't find TJ's first show (3rd appearance), but you can see how their games have refined from their first starts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAfaz4JmZpI&t=499s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTshW5Yu6P0&t=864s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTshW5Yu6P0&t=864s
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But as a bowler that is a "shot-maker" and relies on accuracy, isn't the burden on me to adjust? I've never really been one to put much care into how others deliver the ball.....I've just always thought it was on me to deal with it. I adjust to the conditions, the conditions don't adjust to me. If I need to play up the twig, so be it. If I need to get in to 5th arrow +, so be it.
Nice idea in theory, when it isn't your job, and you see guys whiffing shots way worse than you, and beating you, and there is only so very little money to go around as it is.
It's a SAD day when a bowler who throws it as good as John Szczerbinski decides to not bowl on the tour anymore. Oh and when Randy Pedersen degrades him on his last telecast saying he doesn't have a high enough rev rate. Just sayin
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John's problems are more upstairs, he's very cerebral, will be a very good coach or ball rep or something. Just because a guy throws it good doesn't mean success is automatic.
But as a bowler that is a "shot-maker" and relies on accuracy, isn't the burden on me to adjust? I've never really been one to put much care into how others deliver the ball.....I've just always thought it was on me to deal with it. I adjust to the conditions, the conditions don't adjust to me. If I need to play up the twig, so be it. If I need to get in to 5th arrow +, so be it.
Nice idea in theory, when it isn't your job, and you see guys whiffing shots way worse than you, and beating you, and there is only so very little money to go around as it is.
It's a SAD day when a bowler who throws it as good as John Szczerbinski decides to not bowl on the tour anymore. Oh and when Randy Pedersen degrades him on his last telecast saying he doesn't have a high enough rev rate. Just sayin
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USBC made the decision many moons ago to get out of the pattern governance business and let it be a free for all. When that happened it opened the floodgates to where we are today, nuclear balls with exotic layouts creating 6+ inches of flare. All they have to do is get back into the pattern governance business and out of the equipment governance business. Equipment will govern itself.
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Belmo should be the poster boy of the modern era. He's leading the way of an exciting revolution that's driving up youth participation. He's a top class professional on and off the lane and he has a work ethic (most important) that should be modeled by any aspiring professional. He's an extreme outlier and a physical marvel to the game much like those at the top of other sports. What he's doing at his level (and winning all across the world) can't be replicated because it's much more than just creating more revs. His success is a whole sum of dedication, tens of thousands of hours of practice, the sacrifice of spending little time with your family in order to support them with a great future, and a clear & open mind to trying new things. I saw Belmo in Vegas once, practicing one handed and he was just as sharp technically.
This *governing the delivery argument* is ridiculous. Tommy, your personal gripe with two handed bowling is affecting your logic. If there's any anything that needs to be amended in the sport* of bowling it should be on the things that remain constant, which is the playing field. Oil/lane surface/pins/equipment. The lane machine can shut out any style, the shotmakers will still rise to the top. As soon as you go around telling people how they can & can't, should & shouldn't deliver the ball across the foul line I have to just shut my ears off to this. It's nonsense.
I remember hearing from my high school coaches that decades prior, the basketball purists saying that the slam dunk would ruin the sport of basketball forever. Now it's the number 2 sport worldwide. Not everyone participating in it can slam dunk a ball, but they can still compete, love the game and not try to take away something physically from elite outliers because it's not based in tradition. Real sports evolve and with that evolution comes technique. I guess bowling will just never get to that designation.
*=edit
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But as a bowler that is a "shot-maker" and relies on accuracy, isn't the burden on me to adjust? I've never really been one to put much care into how others deliver the ball.....I've just always thought it was on me to deal with it. I adjust to the conditions, the conditions don't adjust to me. If I need to play up the twig, so be it. If I need to get in to 5th arrow +, so be it.
Nice idea in theory, when it isn't your job, and you see guys whiffing shots way worse than you, and beating you, and there is only so very little money to go around as it is.
It's a SAD day when a bowler who throws it as good as John Szczerbinski decides to not bowl on the tour anymore. Oh and when Randy Pedersen degrades him on his last telecast saying he doesn't have a high enough rev rate. Just sayin
I'll just ask bluntly: Would you support legislation banning two-handed bowling?
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Belmo should be the poster boy of the modern era. He's leading the way of an exciting revolution that's driving up youth participation. He's a top class professional on and off the lane and he has a work ethic (most important) that should be modeled by any aspiring professional. He's an extreme outlier and a physical marvel to the game much like those at the top of other sports. What he's doing at his level (and winning all across the world) can't be replicated because it's much more than just creating more revs. His success is a whole sum of dedication, tens of thousands of hours of practice, the sacrifice of spending little time with your family in order to support them with a great future, and a clear & open mind to trying new things. I saw Belmo in Vegas once, practicing one handed and he was just as sharp technically.
This *governing the delivery argument* is ridiculous. Tommy, your personal gripe with two handed bowling is affecting your logic. If there's any anything that needs to be amended in the sport* of bowling it should be on the things that remain constant, which is the playing field. Oil/lane surface/pins/equipment. The lane machine can shut out any style, the shotmakers will still rise to the top. As soon as you go around telling people how they can & can't, should & shouldn't deliver the ball across the foul line I have to just shut my ears off to this. It's nonsense.
I remember hearing from my high school coaches that decades prior, the basketball purists saying that the slam dunk would ruin the sport of basketball forever. Now it's the number 2 sport worldwide. Not everyone participating in it can slam dunk a ball, but they can still compete, love the game and not try to take away something physically from elite outliers because it's not based in tradition. Real sports evolve and with that evolution comes technique. I guess bowling will just never get to that designation.
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The numbers of youth participation growing are misleading. They are based on Junior Gold participation and many of the junior tournaments that kids now have today, that were not there yester-year.
Participation at the LEAGUE level for youth bowling is declining, and still declining, and has been declining. It has suffered the same fate as adult bowling.
At some point, you aren't going to have enough junior league bowlers, to fill the Junior Golds. You must be using the Chad Murphy rose colored glasses projection model.
in my 21 years of coaching youth bowling, we have yet to have ONE junior bowler show up and bowl who NEVER bowled before, because they saw two handed bowling on TV. Not one.
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>> Would you support legislation banning two-handed bowling? YES.
But if it is here to stay, I just won't worry about it.
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in my 21 years of coaching youth bowling, we have yet to have ONE junior bowler show up and bowl who NEVER bowled before, because they saw two handed bowling on TV. Not one.
Cause new youth bowlers just don't show up to league period. They need a parent + income to even participate.
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Great post below!
Northface for USBC president!
Bowlers are the biggest pussies on earth. My god, I swear some of you sit down to piss and bleed once a month.
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But as a bowler that is a "shot-maker" and relies on accuracy, isn't the burden on me to adjust? I've never really been one to put much care into how others deliver the ball.....I've just always thought it was on me to deal with it. I adjust to the conditions, the conditions don't adjust to me. If I need to play up the twig, so be it. If I need to get in to 5th arrow +, so be it.
Nice idea in theory, when it isn't your job, and you see guys whiffing shots way worse than you, and beating you, and there is only so very little money to go around as it is.
It's a SAD day when a bowler who throws it as good as John Szczerbinski decides to not bowl on the tour anymore. Oh and when Randy Pedersen degrades him on his last telecast saying he doesn't have a high enough rev rate. Just sayin
I'll just ask bluntly: Would you support legislation banning two-handed bowling?
First, I want to see rules regulating conditions from the USBC, since they are regulating balls. I have always stated that you can't have one without the other, there needs to be a concert of both together. They had the perfect chance to do something with the red, white and blue program, and add some integrity back into scoring. Allow those to bowl red pattern, but no awards, no recognition, just go have fun, but be understanding that you won't be rewarded because it is basically "mini-golf". White pattern, you still get your ring a year, but have to at least make reasonable shots to score. Blue pattern is a staging area the is used to provide you the experience for PBA competition.
Set a maximum left to right ratio (again, not trying to make people bowl the US Open, just setting a guideline to follow), so as to force some semblance of uniformity.
Set a maximum volume to viscosity ratio for the oil that is allowed.
If you set parameters on the viscosity and volumes, you then will lock the ball manufactures into a maximum hook potential, and then a rule for cover stock "porosity" makes some sense.
That is how you reign in release strengths. If a bowler can't keep the ball on the correct side of the head pin, they will modify, and adapt.
As far as the two handed delivery, that ship has already sailed unfortunately, but if there were to be legislation on it, I think Tom Smallwood removing the off hand before the ball clears the hip is a good point to define a legal delivery. You can no thumb it, one finger it, whatever, as long as you are not able to use the non swing side hand to aid in control of the ball after passing the hip through and up to release.
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Let's all bowl on 40ft 1:1 gutter to gutter patterns ...... I'd relish the challenge. 600 would be a monster score.
Take away the oil ramps and free hook spots !! - try spraying it around with 500RPM on that stuff !!!! --- Problem solved !! 8)
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Let's all bowl on 40ft 1:1 gutter to gutter patterns ...... I'd relish the challenge. 600 would be a monster score.
Take away the oil ramps and free hook spots !! - Problem solved !!
This is my general sentiment, for better or worse. 8)
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Let's all bowl on 40ft 1:1 gutter to gutter patterns ...... I'd relish the challenge. 600 would be a monster score.
Take away the oil ramps and free hook spots !! - try spraying it around with 500RPM on that stuff !!!! --- Problem solved !! 8)
So we can watch the THB loft the gutter cap as if they were at the US Open? I'm sure every proprietor would love to see that happen.
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I'll just ask bluntly: Would you support legislation banning two-handed bowling?
NO.
But, I am jaded.
My son, who no longer bowls, and who only bowled in one league, part time, with me is quite a natural two hander.
Back before Belmonte and Palermaa, there was my son. He went to practice with me, and wanted to bowl too. Since he didn’t have his own ball, he threw mine. It was too heavy for him, so he just put his fingers in the finger holes, held it with both hands, and threw it almost textbook good for a two hander.
Trust me, Belmo is much more practiced than my son, but not any more natural at it.
He was having fun, and starting to want to get more involved. I signed him and myself up for a junior/adult league that summer.
Sadly, those who didn’t end up making fun if his style, usually ended up accusing him of cheating. Not only was he beating ALL of the juniors (including the “God’s gift to bowling†silver level coaches son), but he was also beating 2/3 of the adult bowlers in the league. Including me.
You would think adults would be above some of the things some of them said to and about him and his “illegal†style. I had to actually send in a video to get approval for his style to shut them up.
He lost interest after that year. He said he was tired of hearing and putting up with every bodies crap when all he wanted to do was bowl naturally and have fun.
I DONT GIVE A DAMN IF YOU RUN TO THE LINE BACKWARDS DOING CARTWHEELS, AS LONG AS YOU DONT FOUL OR DAMAGE THE EQUIPMENT!
I want your best. I want you to HAVE to give me your best, and I don’t give a rats ass what your best is. I want to bring the best out in you, then beat you anyway, and if I can’t, I will shake your hand, and tell you there will be a next time, and you better bring your best back with you, cause I will, and I’ll beat your ass if you don’t.
You want to limit the technology? I have NO PROBLEM with that. In fact, I would enact much harsher limits than they are currently talking about.
You want to limit physical ability? You are out of your damn minds if that’s what you want. If that is you, then you have NO PLACE in competitive bowling, and only serve to bring people of possibly superior ability down to your level when you SHOULD be aspiring to reach theirs.
You think PDW fears Belmo? How about PB III, or W.R.W.? I think not.
They are not scared of his two handed style. If YOU are, you are the problem.
The rules are what the rules are. You guys don’t make them, but some of you sure seem to scream and cry whenever they come up with something you don’t like or agree with. I was finally forced to see the problem wasn’t the changes, the problem was my myopic outlook on them, and many of you need to do the same now.
I had to realize, and admit, that the truly greats were able to make the adjustments into the modern era and, if I couldn’t, that meant it wasn’t the changes, it was ME! If they could do it, then I could too!
IF YOU DONT LIKE THE DAMN RULES, THEN STFU AND QUIT.
If you don’t want to quit, then STFU AND BOWL.
P. S. Yes, I am the guy who will turn you in for using illegal equipment with balance holes in them after the date has passed. I don’t cheat, and I won’t let you either.
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The problem with society today is a lack of trying to understand another ones point of view. If I don't agree with you, I'm just a big cry baby, and I'm wrong, so I get called names. Maybe you should try reading someone's point of view for understanding, instead of trying to belittle them and call them names for seeing things different than you do.
I have never ONCE told a two hander he's breaking the rules. In fact JUST the OPPOSITE, I try to teach them, if they are going to do it, use your legs, and show them videos of Belmo, so maybe they can keep the ball in play. There is a difference in acceptance, and promoting it.
But you instantly jump on this thought process like if I see a problem with how it alters the playing field, I'm just a jerk. Try Seeing something from another ones perspective.
It isn't about being scared, its about looking at the facts, they are there. This isn't personal, they are facts. Name calling makes things personal.
Sounds like your son, who was belittled, would understand what I'm talking about.
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Is anyone really "promoting" 2 handed bowling though? Or is it just an extension of coaching to catch up with the times, not excluding anyone, and opening coaches eyes to additional revenue streams due to new practices?
Even if Belmo was a 1 handed player with the same credentials, he would still be the posterchild of the modern era because he wins a lot, has charisma out the wazoo, and is amazing with kids and the youth bowlers.
I remember meeting one of my bowling hero's outside of a rainy Country Club Lanes in Baltimore back in 2001 and he all but told me to scram while he finished his cigarette. Kids are very impressionable and love to have fun, why not have a leaders at the helm that can foster that and keep their spirit into the game?
p.s. I don't think anybody sees you as a jerk. That's projecting much. I know I come off a bit cynical, but that's because I have no emotional investment in bowling anymore. When trying to have logical discussions, I try to keep them as emotionless as possible.
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But as a bowler that is a "shot-maker" and relies on accuracy, isn't the burden on me to adjust? I've never really been one to put much care into how others deliver the ball.....I've just always thought it was on me to deal with it. I adjust to the conditions, the conditions don't adjust to me. If I need to play up the twig, so be it. If I need to get in to 5th arrow +, so be it.
Nice idea in theory, when it isn't your job, and you see guys whiffing shots way worse than you, and beating you, and there is only so very little money to go around as it is.
It's a SAD day when a bowler who throws it as good as John Szczerbinski decides to not bowl on the tour anymore. Oh and when Randy Pedersen degrades him on his last telecast saying he doesn't have a high enough rev rate. Just sayin
Why is it sad?
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I'll just ask bluntly: Would you support legislation banning two-handed bowling?
NO.
But, I am jaded.
My son, who no longer bowls, and who only bowled in one league, part time, with me is quite a natural two hander.
Back before Belmonte and Palermaa, there was my son. He went to practice with me, and wanted to bowl too. Since he didn’t have his own ball, he threw mine. It was too heavy for him, so he just put his fingers in the finger holes, held it with both hands, and threw it almost textbook good for a two hander.
Trust me, Belmo is much more practiced than my son, but not any more natural at it.
He was having fun, and starting to want to get more involved. I signed him and myself up for a junior/adult league that summer.
Sadly, those who didn’t end up making fun if his style, usually ended up accusing him of cheating. Not only was he beating ALL of the juniors (including the “God’s gift to bowling†silver level coaches son), but he was also beating 2/3 of the adult bowlers in the league. Including me.
You would think adults would be above some of the things some of them said to and about him and his “illegal†style. I had to actually send in a video to get approval for his style to shut them up.
He lost interest after that year. He said he was tired of hearing and putting up with every bodies crap when all he wanted to do was bowl naturally and have fun.
I DONT GIVE A DAMN IF YOU RUN TO THE LINE BACKWARDS DOING CARTWHEELS, AS LONG AS YOU DONT FOUL OR DAMAGE THE EQUIPMENT!
I want your best. I want you to HAVE to give me your best, and I don’t give a rats ass what your best is. I want to bring the best out in you, then beat you anyway, and if I can’t, I will shake your hand, and tell you there will be a next time, and you better bring your best back with you, cause I will, and I’ll beat your ass if you don’t.
You want to limit the technology? I have NO PROBLEM with that. In fact, I would enact much harsher limits than they are currently talking about.
You want to limit physical ability? You are out of your damn minds if that’s what you want. If that is you, then you have NO PLACE in competitive bowling, and only serve to bring people of possibly superior ability down to your level when you SHOULD be aspiring to reach theirs.
You think PDW fears Belmo? How about PB III, or W.R.W.? I think not.
They are not scared of his two handed style. If YOU are, you are the problem.
The rules are what the rules are. You guys don’t make them, but some of you sure seem to scream and cry whenever they come up with something you don’t like or agree with. I was finally forced to see the problem wasn’t the changes, the problem was my myopic outlook on them, and many of you need to do the same now.
I had to realize, and admit, that the truly greats were able to make the adjustments into the modern era and, if I couldn’t, that meant it wasn’t the changes, it was ME! If they could do it, then I could too!
IF YOU DONT LIKE THE DAMN RULES, THEN STFU AND QUIT.
If you don’t want to quit, then STFU AND BOWL.
P. S. Yes, I am the guy who will turn you in for using illegal equipment with balance holes in them after the date has passed. I don’t cheat, and I won’t let you either.
Was tommygn in this league?
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I'll just ask bluntly: Would you support legislation banning two-handed bowling?
NO.
But, I am jaded.
My son, who no longer bowls, and who only bowled in one league, part time, with me is quite a natural two hander.
Back before Belmonte and Palermaa, there was my son. He went to practice with me, and wanted to bowl too. Since he didn’t have his own ball, he threw mine. It was too heavy for him, so he just put his fingers in the finger holes, held it with both hands, and threw it almost textbook good for a two hander.
Trust me, Belmo is much more practiced than my son, but not any more natural at it.
He was having fun, and starting to want to get more involved. I signed him and myself up for a junior/adult league that summer.
Sadly, those who didn’t end up making fun if his style, usually ended up accusing him of cheating. Not only was he beating ALL of the juniors (including the “God’s gift to bowling†silver level coaches son), but he was also beating 2/3 of the adult bowlers in the league. Including me.
You would think adults would be above some of the things some of them said to and about him and his “illegal†style. I had to actually send in a video to get approval for his style to shut them up.
He lost interest after that year. He said he was tired of hearing and putting up with every bodies crap when all he wanted to do was bowl naturally and have fun.
I DONT GIVE A DAMN IF YOU RUN TO THE LINE BACKWARDS DOING CARTWHEELS, AS LONG AS YOU DONT FOUL OR DAMAGE THE EQUIPMENT!
I want your best. I want you to HAVE to give me your best, and I don’t give a rats ass what your best is. I want to bring the best out in you, then beat you anyway, and if I can’t, I will shake your hand, and tell you there will be a next time, and you better bring your best back with you, cause I will, and I’ll beat your ass if you don’t.
You want to limit the technology? I have NO PROBLEM with that. In fact, I would enact much harsher limits than they are currently talking about.
You want to limit physical ability? You are out of your damn minds if that’s what you want. If that is you, then you have NO PLACE in competitive bowling, and only serve to bring people of possibly superior ability down to your level when you SHOULD be aspiring to reach theirs.
You think PDW fears Belmo? How about PB III, or W.R.W.? I think not.
They are not scared of his two handed style. If YOU are, you are the problem.
The rules are what the rules are. You guys don’t make them, but some of you sure seem to scream and cry whenever they come up with something you don’t like or agree with. I was finally forced to see the problem wasn’t the changes, the problem was my myopic outlook on them, and many of you need to do the same now.
I had to realize, and admit, that the truly greats were able to make the adjustments into the modern era and, if I couldn’t, that meant it wasn’t the changes, it was ME! If they could do it, then I could too!
IF YOU DONT LIKE THE DAMN RULES, THEN STFU AND QUIT.
If you don’t want to quit, then STFU AND BOWL.
P. S. Yes, I am the guy who will turn you in for using illegal equipment with balance holes in them after the date has passed. I don’t cheat, and I won’t let you either.
Was tommygn in this league?
No.
I don’t know where he gets that I was even talking to, or about, him. ???
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If you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one that yelps is the one you hit.
That being said, I appreciate the candor of the ones that admit they'd legislate it out......the other side of that sword is that you see who exactly is the "bowling conservatives" are with regard to tradition.
I'm pro-"you do you" with regard to delivery, as long as you're behind the line. I truly and honestly believe the burden is on me to adjust to it. If I can't do that, or if I am unable to compete at the highest level due to rev rate.....I'm OK saying they're just better than me and should find some other way to earn a living. I don't see why that's not an acceptable view. That doesn't mean I suck or can't compete on a given day, it's just simply OK.
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There seems to be a lot of people who feel that bowling owes them a living.
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There seems to be a lot of people who feel that bowling owes them a living.
Bingo, bowling doesnt owe anyone shit. The quicker some of us realize that, the better off we will be. John Sczerbinski is better off not bowling professionally. He has a family, a college degree, why on earth would he want to bowl professionally for chump change anyway? No health insurance, no 401k, no benefits. Im not seeing how this is a "bad thing".
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You know, after all this bull, the rules and limitations, whining and complaining, revrate dick measuring extra hole whining, there's still one constant that will never change.
It's still me vs the pins, and you vs the pins. You can not stay stagnant in a dynamically changing sport and expect to get the same results. I'm 40, and people 15 years younger than me are going to do things to a bowling ball that I can't, and vice versa. 15 years from now, the cycle will repeat.
Maybe we should just close all bowling centers and we can call this site lawnreviews and just bitch about how people should stay off of ours.
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In light of these new regulations, Banger Bowling needs to release a new ball called the Hole Plugger.
ZING!
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North face you’re dead on. Bowling is Only pro sport I know that is bowling for less $ now than 20 even 30 years ago. Only a handful of pros can make a living bowling without having to run pro shops or other part time jobs. I remember del Ballard winning the us open for 100k in late 80’s now what is it? 50k. Pba bowling is in trouble. We will see if the fox contract makes a difference. Going to be interesting to see what impact if any fox will have. Maybe they can bring in some heavy sponsorship $ and advertising $ to help these poor sob’s out. These talented professionals deserve so much better than these jokes of a prize fund they’re playing for now.
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You know, after all this bull, the rules and limitations, whining and complaining, revrate dick measuring extra hole whining, there's still one constant that will never change.
It's still me vs the pins, and you vs the pins. You can not stay stagnant in a dynamically changing sport and expect to get the same results. I'm 40, and people 15 years younger than me are going to do things to a bowling ball that I can't, and vice versa. 15 years from now, the cycle will repeat.
Maybe we should just close all bowling centers and we can call this site lawnreviews and just bitch about how people should stay off of ours.
Yeah, charlest and tommygn would become the moderators of proposed site.
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North face you’re dead on. Bowling is Only pro sport I know that is bowling for less $ now than 20 even 30 years ago. Only a handful of pros can make a living bowling without having to run pro shops or other part time jobs. I remember del Ballard winning the us open for 100k in late 80’s now what is it? 50k. Pba bowling is in trouble. We will see if the fox contract makes a difference. Going to be interesting to see what impact if any fox will have. Maybe they can bring in some heavy sponsorship $ and advertising $ to help these poor sob’s out. These talented professionals deserve so much better than these jokes of a prize fund they’re playing for now.
Its the same 10-15 guys competing for peanuts, living out of a suitcase, with very little financial stability and ZERO BENEFITS. Im amazed guys even go out there. Its a young mans game. Young, meaning no family, not married, no real financial obligations. Yet, these bitter, old fucks are trying to legislate a game that has passed them by.
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There seems to be a lot of people who feel that bowling owes them a living.
So grateful bowling is a hobby and going to keep it that way. There is about 50 reasons why not to sanction and damned if I can find one why I should give the USBC money. Money and bowling go together like peanut butter and shit to me.
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whoa.... I just log on and saw this....
Personally, I don't really care with the future changes. I just want to bowl.
edit: a pinky hole might be good for my arthritis :D
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I love to bowl for money, and the day I can’t make money doing it is the day I’ll retire from it. That being said....I’m not getting rich from it and I’m not going broke from it, it is though for myself and many others a profitable hobby. League nights I’ll throw up $50 and it’s a good night as long as I make some. It’s about the principle to me.
I just try to keep things in context.
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I love to bowl for money, and the day I can’t make money doing it is the day I’ll retire from it. That being said....I’m not getting rich from it and I’m not going broke from it, it is though for myself and many others a profitable hobby. League nights I’ll throw up $50 and it’s a good night as long as I make some. It’s about the principle to me.
I just try to keep things in context.
agreed. I make more than I spend. There aren't many hobbies that I can do once a week and pay for a date night.
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I love to bowl for money, and the day I can’t make money doing it is the day I’ll retire from it. That being said....I’m not getting rich from it and I’m not going broke from it, it is though for myself and many others a profitable hobby. League nights I’ll throw up $50 and it’s a good night as long as I make some. It’s about the principle to me.
I just try to keep things in context.
agreed. I make more than I spend. There aren't many hobbies that I can do once a week and pay for a date night.
Exactly! I’m just trying to make a buck and enjoy spending some time while I’m on this Earth with good friends. Make a buck, compete, quality time with friends, a challenge, traveling to tournaments and bowling in different environments....those are reasons i bowl. Certainly there are issues with USBC I don’t like and other things (wrap 10’s on quality shots >:( ), but for the most part I enjoy myself and “try” to keep things light-hearted.
Life is too short to spend a disproportionate amount of time focused on the negative aspects of this game/sport.
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I love to bowl for money, and the day I can’t make money doing it is the day I’ll retire from it. That being said....I’m not getting rich from it and I’m not going broke from it, it is though for myself and many others a profitable hobby. League nights I’ll throw up $50 and it’s a good night as long as I make some. It’s about the principle to me.
I just try to keep things in context.
agreed. I make more than I spend. There aren't many hobbies that I can do once a week and pay for a date night.
Exactly! I’m just trying to make a buck and enjoy spending some time while I’m on this Earth with good friends. Make a buck, compete, quality time with friends, a challenge, traveling to tournaments and bowling in different environments....those are reasons i bowl. Certainly there are issues with USBC I don’t like and other things (wrap 10’s on quality shots >:( ), but for the most part I enjoy myself and “try†to keep things light-hearted.
Life is too short to spend a disproportionate amount of time focused on the negative aspects of this game/sport.
For record not putting you guys down at all and glad you can enjoy this wonderful sport and make money. Win win for sure and I salute you. Just personally hate the thought of bowling becoming job like which is why the sport side doesn't really appeal to me at all. Getting good enough I could be competitive at least with house hacks but all I need to do is go open bowling on a week night with one of the more serious leagues going to be like nope (money often brings out worst in people). Just not my vibe at all. Might be different story if didn't live in the middle of big metro area. I did grow up with mom and pop alleys and those leagues were a lot more down to earth and the money was very secondary.
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Exactly! I’m just trying to make a buck and enjoy spending some time while I’m on this Earth with good friends. Make a buck, compete, quality time with friends, a challenge, traveling to tournaments and bowling in different environments....those are reasons i bowl. Certainly there are issues with USBC I don’t like and other things (wrap 10’s on quality shots >:( ), but for the most part I enjoy myself and “try†to keep things light-hearted.
Life is too short to spend a disproportionate amount of time focused on the negative aspects of this game/sport.
I agree with this, EXCEPT for the money thing. Nothing wrong with it, just not my bag to bowl recreational leagues for money.
Tournaments, yes. “Actionâ€, yes.
But brackets, high pots, strike pot tickets, etc etc etc.....in leagues just don’t do it for me.
I’m in it (league bowling) for nothing more than the challenge of the game, pure and simple.
I’ve got friends who feel just like you do about the money thing. I don’t have a problem with it, and I usually end up beating most of them anyway, and they just do not understand why I don’t get in.
Now, I WILL make personal wagers with them. Couple of bucks, a drink, or maybe a burger and fries, something along those lines. That can be fun, but that’s about my limit.
Bottom line, bowling should be fun. If brackets and things like that make it fun for you, then more power to you. Winning brackets and pots isn’t where I get my thrill, I get that from beating people I shouldn’t be able to beat.
I love a good challenge.
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Preach my exact feelings exactly 👏👏. To me money= job, and that TAKES AWAY from the fun, and challenge.
To each their own.
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Preach my exact feelings exactly 👏👏. To me money= job, and that TAKES AWAY from the fun, and challenge.
To each their own.
a wise hustler once told me, "never bet more than you can lose." So 20 bucks in brackets and a $10 high game pot can yield 100-250 a night. I can afford to lose 30 to net a profit of 70-220 a night. Doesn't make it a job, just a way to pay for the weekend date night 8)
worst case, I have a bad night and lose 30 bucks :P
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Understand that, HOWEVER NOT EVERYONE can afford to put up that kind of money, or have better ways to spend it as well. When it comes down to it, more power to you bowlers' who choose to spend, but again, I love the challenge of the game, NO amount of money will ever impede me from the game that I love.
My.002 on it. Whatever floats your boat. :D
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I second the above opinion, bowling is a love affair for me>
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Understand that, HOWEVER NOT EVERYONE can afford to put up that kind of money
That's sad. Like REALLY sad. They probably shouldn't be bowling if the financial situation is THAT bad.
or have better ways to spend it as well.
Fair.
When it comes down to it, more power to you bowlers' who choose to spend, but again, I love the challenge of the game, NO amount of money will ever impede me from the game that I love.
BUT is it really "spending" if you are turning a profit? This isn't a guarantee you'll make money every individual night....but if you show a long-term profit that's good! Ever the more reason to get up and perform when needed. Again, we're talking about small time money.
I get it though, you don't see it that way. I do however understand your POV, that you just bowl to bowl. That just seems incredibly...........I don't know.........bland? I realize you bowl for the challenge or whatever, I DO TOO, but it's fun when there's a reason (beyond just......like, "doing") to strike out in the 10th.
Like I was saying though, it's a self-funding hobby. I couldn't see just doing it and it being an expense. I can afford that expense but why CHOOSE to miss value?
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Understand that, HOWEVER NOT EVERYONE can afford to put up that kind of money
That's sad. Like REALLY sad. They probably shouldn't be bowling if the financial situation is THAT bad.
or have better ways to spend it as well.
Fair.
When it comes down to it, more power to you bowlers' who choose to spend, but again, I love the challenge of the game, NO amount of money will ever impede me from the game that I love.
BUT is it really "spending" if you are turning a profit? This isn't a guarantee you'll make money every individual night....but if you show a long-term profit that's good! Ever the more reason to get up and perform when needed. Again, we're talking about small time money.
I get it though, you don't see it that way. I do however understand your POV, that you just bowl to bowl. That just seems incredibly...........I don't know.........bland? I realize you bowl for the challenge or whatever, I DO TOO, but it's fun when there's a reason (beyond just......like, "doing") to strike out in the 10th.
Like I was saying though, it's a self-funding hobby. I couldn't see just doing it and it being an expense. I can afford that expense but why CHOOSE to miss value?
I wasn't posting the numbers to sham anyone. GTGT nailed it for me though.
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How about those people who buy 15+ balls a season and don't even attempt to recoup the money they invested on equipment in pots, tournaments, brackets, etc? What a waste.
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How about those people who buy 15+ balls a season and don't even attempt to recoup the money they invested on equipment in pots, tournaments, brackets, etc? What a waste.
They get the satisfaction of high scores and accomplishment.........and stuff. :P
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Gdod point tkk, I do occasionally play, that's fair; I also agree that extra Incentive can also present a challenge as well. Should of clarified that it’s not my priority mostly, but occasionally I do bowl pots or brackets for the incentive/challenge/enjoyment.
Good clarification, nothing wrong with a little side action. ;)
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This a little off topic here, but for way too long I based whether or not I warmed up well and had "the look" on the lanes before I "invested" in myself and bought brackets.
After some careful introspection I have learned that if I'm striking on every shot during warm-up, chances are that everyone else probably is too. I'm actually better off to wait for the night when the lanes are tougher and people are already whining about their plight. It's those nights when a mediocre score may get me through to the next round. Mediocre I can do!
Physically, I'm not as strong as I was 10 years ago. Mentally I'm better than ever. To compete against the young bucks I have to be smarter, and read reaction and adjust faster than they do. "Grind it out" when the lanes are tough instead of lamenting the difficulty of the condition. Those nights when I have scored so-so, but was ahead of the majority can be very satisfying (mentally and financially) during the drive home.
And now, back to your regularly scheduled programming. I hope this helps someone either win some money or keep from losing it. It's about the same to the bottom line.
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WOW! Before I started screaming and bitching. I listened and watched the video and read the article. On Jan 1, 2020 the maximum static weight was raised from 1 oz to 3 oz for finger/thumb and side. Most balls drilled are less than 2oz before the weight hole is added to bring them into the 1oz range. You can use the weight hole balls from Jan 1, to Jul 31 with no changes. On Aug 1, you cannot have any weight holes. That gives you from Jan 1 to Jul 31 (6 months) to have your weight holes plugged. Two fingered bowlers often use the "thumb" hole as a weight hole and that is why drillers came up with triangle and wii grips. The bowler using only finger grips, must have an "X" etched into the ball and the ball must be held so the hand covers the "X". That way, they can't use it upside down.
The Dry towel was explained to mean no liquid. Towels and Shammy's are all legal. Just no liquids during play. As for the crap that ends up on the ball, that won't wipe off, the league or tournament official may authorize some kind of cleaner to get it off. Much like the rule that covers a ball damaged during play. One good question came up from the youth. Many of the youth use house balls without using any finger holes. It is expected that house balls will be exempt from the "weight hole" rule.
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Many of the youth use house balls without using any finger holes. It is expected that house balls will be exempt from the "weight hole" rule.
I heard somewhere that the new rules will not apply to any ball weighing 10 pounds or less. So, kids need not worry.
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WOW! Before I started screaming and bitching. I listened and watched the video and read the article. On Jan 1, 2020 the maximum static weight was raised from 1 oz to 3 oz for finger/thumb and side. Most balls drilled are less than 2oz before the weight hole is added to bring them into the 1oz range. You can use the weight hole balls from Jan 1, to Jul 31 with no changes. On Aug 1, you cannot have any weight holes. That gives you from Jan 1 to Jul 31 (6 months) to have your weight holes plugged. Two fingered bowlers often use the "thumb" hole as a weight hole and that is why drillers came up with triangle and wii grips. The bowler using only finger grips, must have an "X" etched into the ball and the ball must be held so the hand covers the "X". That way, they can't use it upside down.
The Dry towel was explained to mean no liquid. Towels and Shammy's are all legal. Just no liquids during play. As for the crap that ends up on the ball, that won't wipe off, the league or tournament official may authorize some kind of cleaner to get it off. Much like the rule that covers a ball damaged during play. One good question came up from the youth. Many of the youth use house balls without using any finger holes. It is expected that house balls will be exempt from the "weight hole" rule.
See how easy that was?
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WOW! Before I started screaming and bitching. I listened and watched the video and read the article. On Jan 1, 2020 the maximum static weight was raised from 1 oz to 3 oz for finger/thumb and side. Most balls drilled are less than 2oz before the weight hole is added to bring them into the 1oz range. You can use the weight hole balls from Jan 1, to Jul 31 with no changes. On Aug 1, you cannot have any weight holes. That gives you from Jan 1 to Jul 31 (6 months) to have your weight holes plugged. Two fingered bowlers often use the "thumb" hole as a weight hole and that is why drillers came up with triangle and wii grips. The bowler using only finger grips, must have an "X" etched into the ball and the ball must be held so the hand covers the "X". That way, they can't use it upside down.
The Dry towel was explained to mean no liquid. Towels and Shammy's are all legal. Just no liquids during play. As for the crap that ends up on the ball, that won't wipe off, the league or tournament official may authorize some kind of cleaner to get it off. Much like the rule that covers a ball damaged during play. One good question came up from the youth. Many of the youth use house balls without using any finger holes. It is expected that house balls will be exempt from the "weight hole" rule.
See how easy that was?
Really only complaint only than hassle of dragging fair number of balls to get plugged is not being able to plug a significant number of them until 2020 unless plug more than motion hole. As long as the lead time for plugging doesn't get stupid in 2020 no biggie. Still beats banning a bunch of high diff balls for sure. It can always get worse so good to look on the bright side.
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Hack,
You and I are far too much alike, in many ways, to argue about much. I tend to agree with a lot you say, just don’t feel quite as strongly about it as I used to. Guess I’m just getting old, lol.
I’m a little aggravated too, but I love to bowl, so I’ll keep bowling. If I want to just open bowl, I’ll use whatever the heck I want to, weight hole be damned.
And you. If you decide to go ahead and bowl a league, you’ll plug something up, or buy something new and drill it. You love buying and trying new stuff, and I already have a couple NIB stashed in the closet, so it really wouldn’t be THAT big of a deal. You’ll probably already have legal stuff by 2020 anyway. That’s what I would do.
As long as U.S.B.C. doesn’t come up with some ridiculous rule (like having to bowl blindfolded backwards or something), or start charging a crazy amount (like $500 a year), I’ll follow the rules and keep bowling, because I enjoy bowling league with my friends.
They make rules, that’s what they do. And, I really couldn’t care less, as long as those rules don’t “get in the wayâ€, so to speak.
I don’t like a lot of the speed limits on the roads, but I still drive a car.
I don’t like my work hours, but I usually get there on time.
And I ain’t crazy about many of the things the U.S.B.C. comes up with, but I still bowl leagues.
Maybe it won’t get too stupid. Got my fingers crossed.
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Yep question is if I bother any time soon to take the next step up from unsanctioned doubles league currently in. Will probably end up plugging at least some of my pieces regardless. As you say change is inevitable so no point getting wound up.
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HackJandy, It would be nice to have the window start Jan 1, 2019, for those of us who have a lot of balls to plug. I will send an email to USBC and see if we can get the window opened up a little.
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I am buying stock in the ball plug companies. ;D
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I am buying stock in the ball plug companies. ;D
There will be some, but not as much as you would think probably.
A. Most entry level bowlers won’t have any extra holes, most likely.
(They don’t need them because they don’t know anything about them)
B. Medium level bowlers will be doing the majority of the plugging because
C. Higher level bowlers buy new stuff often enough to avoid most plugging needed.
I’ve got 21 bowling balls in my bedroom floor. Only three have weightholes, and I only use two of them anymore.
2 out of 21, that’s all, and that’s only if I plug them instead of buying newer stuff in the next two years. Odds are, I’ll get new stuff. Probably would have anyway.
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Hey juggernaut, careful storing those ball on the floor, carpet. They have a better chance of cracking unboxed on the floor. Speaking from experience. Hank boomershine from storm/rg says store them in original boxes in plastic bags.
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People know good and well they're not going to go plugging the ten relics they have in the basement. By the time you consider how much to plug 4 balls you'll justify the price of that shiny new Utah ball with 10 year old R2S on it for the same price and be happier than a pig in slop.
There is a silver lining in this as ball companies will be forced to put more money in R&D and marketing to push the new equipment in the year that the restrictions take place. They want that new equipment money. They get 0% of plug and redrill money.
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Hey juggernaut, careful storing those ball on the floor, carpet. They have a better chance of cracking unboxed on the floor. Speaking from experience. Hank boomershine from storm/rg says store them in original boxes in plastic bags.
We've been saying on this website since before 2008 to store bowling balls in plastic bags.
http://www.ballreviews.com/visionary/cracking-balls-t203472.0.html;msg948803#msg948803
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Regarding the plugging of bowling balls with weight holes, are we talking a full plug & re-drill or just plug the weight hole and the ball should be legal according to the new spec guidelines? This is also assuming a normal, nothing exotic, layout being used.
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Regarding the plugging of bowling balls with weight holes, are we talking a full plug & re-drill or just plug the weight hole and the ball should be legal according to the new spec guidelines? This is also assuming a normal, nothing exotic, layout being used.
That's the dilemma of this whole scenario! USBC is not offering "Joe Bowler" rebates on getting all of this retro-fitted plug work done! We're just stuck with having to pay extra money in order to keep rolling balls which we consider "keepers".
Some balls I own with weight holes have them to get the ball back in tolerances that make it legal, while some balls I have, have the X-hole there simply to shape my reaction on the lanes. This USBC change will force bowlers to plug their holes and then go back and have the balls re-checked for legality. The trick in all of this is, there is even verbiage in the new rules banning the drilling of finger holes deeper....so how stupid is that?
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Regarding the plugging of bowling balls with weight holes, are we talking a full plug & re-drill or just plug the weight hole and the ball should be legal according to the new spec guidelines? This is also assuming a normal, nothing exotic, layout being used.
Yes, Just plug the weight hole and you should be okay. Of course double check just to make sure.
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Regarding the plugging of bowling balls with weight holes, are we talking a full plug & re-drill or just plug the weight hole and the ball should be legal according to the new spec guidelines? This is also assuming a normal, nothing exotic, layout being used.
The increased static weight limit, to 3 oz in all directions, goes into effect in January, 2020. The no balance hole rule doesn't go into effect until August, 2020, so you'll have 7 months to plug the balance holes after the 3 oz rule is in effect. You shouldn't have any problem with the balls being statically legal after plugging the balance holes. -- JohnP
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With the expanded side weight tolerances it is pretty unlikely that plugiing a ball would take them out of legal balance.
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I would like to see the rule implemented such that if you are willing to forego weight holes today, then you can have your bowling balls drilled today with the 3 oz. rules.
I don't see the point in making us wait until January 1, 2020.
At no time should a bowling ball be allowed to have a weight hole and 3 oz. of weight anywhere on the ball. Since the 3 oz. rules goes into affect before the elimination of the weight hole, you could have some weird layouts for 6 months.
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Some balls I own with weight holes have them to get the ball back in tolerances that make it legal, while some balls I have, have the X-hole there simply to shape my reaction on the lanes. This USBC change will force bowlers to plug their holes and then go back and have the balls re-checked for legality.
Yes, we know. Virtually all of us have a few with holes in them, so we are virtually all in the same boat.
The trick in all of this is, there is even verbiage in the new rules banning the drilling of finger holes deeper....so how stupid is that?
That verbiage only refers to doing it during competition to change the static weights WHILE COMPETITION IS STILL UNDERWAY! Other than that, you can drill the holes as deep as you want, just not during competition.
Now how stupid is it?
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So as a two hander that do not use the thumb. As it states that all holes has to be used on every throw, this means if you don't use the thumb hole you can only have the two finger holes.
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So as a two hander that do not use the thumb. As it states that all holes has to be used on every throw, this means if you don't use the thumb hole you can only have the two finger holes.
^^^^^^ This is how logical deduction works!
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So as a two hander that do not use the thumb. As it states that all holes has to be used on every throw, this means if you don't use the thumb hole you can only have the two finger holes.
and don't forget the X to show which way you would holding the ball
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Some balls I own with weight holes have them to get the ball back in tolerances that make it legal, while some balls I have, have the X-hole there simply to shape my reaction on the lanes. This USBC change will force bowlers to plug their holes and then go back and have the balls re-checked for legality.
Yes, we know. Virtually all of us have a few with holes in them, so we are virtually all in the same boat.
The trick in all of this is, there is even verbiage in the new rules banning the drilling of finger holes deeper....so how stupid is that?
That verbiage only refers to doing it during competition to change the static weights WHILE COMPETITION IS STILL UNDERWAY! Other than that, you can drill the holes as deep as you want, just not during competition.
Now how stupid is it?
Juggernaut, Could that rule about no drilling the finger holes deeper during competition be related to the USBC Nationals?
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Juggernaut, Could that rule about no drilling the finger holes deeper during competition be related to the USBC Nationals?
Possibly, but I really have never come across the situation myself.
Usually, if someone makes a rule, it is to solve a problem, but I’ve never heard of someone doing this during competition to gain an advantage, so it’s a new one on me.
Maybe just trying to be proactive for a change?
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Juggernaut, Could that rule about no drilling the finger holes deeper during competition be related to the USBC Nationals?
Possibly, but I really have never come across the situation myself.
Usually, if someone makes a rule, it is to solve a problem, but I’ve never heard of someone doing this during competition to gain an advantage, so it’s a new one on me.
Maybe just trying to be proactive for a change?
Heh, USBC and proactive. Why do we not think this would go together naturally? :)
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I have a hunch the weight hole rule will be repealed by the time it is implemented. There are way to many people with equipment they like and paid good money for to put a POS plug into.
I'll be the first one to tell you, in 2020 plan to see me with weight holes because I refuse to plug them. You want to call me out on the rules, go ahead. It's a bull$hit rule and wouldn't be needed if that stupid 2 handed crap would be dealt with correctly. The real cause is 2 handers with thumbholes they may or may not use. Deal with the 2 handers and leave the rest of us alone. The "X" on the ball is a good idea. If they use their thumb or not shouldn't be the issue ..... its the use of the second hand that is the issue. Hell with Belmo, Jesper, and Oksu and the rest --- the vast majority of us have been doing it the traditional way, spending thousands on equipment and learning how to make shots ..... now we need to change? F.O. !!
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I wouldn't be surprised if the R&D departments at ball companies will be coming up with some new cores to take advantage of loosening on static weight limits. I know that 3 oz of side weight would really have an impact on the old pancake weight blocks. Not so much on the core heavy balls of today, but they are a lot more sophisticated than 20-30 years ago in ball design
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BeerLeague,
WOW, I don’t think I’ve had anybody push that many of my buttons in a long time. You really make me want to have the same type of reaction to your post, as you have had to the rule change.
But that would be many derogatorily descriptive adjectives away from constructive, so I will try to refrain from that. Insults and name calling achieve nothing.
You are obviously emotionally involved in your opinion, and I can appreciate that, but the sad (and honest) truth is, U.S.B.C. couldn’t care less about you or your opinion.
If the ruling is repealed, then good for you. You will have had an insight into the future that many of us will not have had, and may go merrily upon your way.
If, however, it is not repealed, you WILL either comply with it, or you will leave the game. People like me will make sure of that.
I may not like all the rules, but I do follow them. And I will make sure you do to if you bowl against me. If you refuse after having been informed of the infraction, I will have any scores you shot disqualified and thrown out.
Your choice. It’s up to you.
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I wouldn't be surprised if the R&D departments at ball companies will be coming up with some new cores to take advantage of loosening on static weight limits. I know that 3 oz of side weight would really have an impact on the old pancake weight blocks. Not so much on the core heavy balls of today, but they are a lot more sophisticated than 20-30 years ago in ball design
They’ve already got the answer.
Remember those Z spin balls? They were designed to do exactly that.
They were talking about keeping the cg within 1 inch of the grip center, and a couple of manufacturers experimented with these.
Supposedly, you could drill them with the pin @ 1:30, cg in the palm, and marked z axis out in the track area, and get a ball that was designed to “go long and flip hard†without needing to move the cg out and then drill an x-hole to balance it out.
The Hammer No Mercy was one of those.
If I remember right, they had a Hart core design(Hammer Aggressive Reaction Technology)
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I think you ate right juggernaut. I don't stay on top of that type of tech stuff, but I have been around long enough to know that ball technology I'd always ahead of regulatory technology. I still think the whole issue is way over blown. Guys are getting 500 revs on the ball. That trumps any balance whole/ static weight issues.
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If, however, it is not repealed, you WILL either comply with it, or you will leave the game. People like me will make sure of that.
I may not like all the rules, but I do follow them. And I will make sure you do to if you bowl against me. If you refuse after having been informed of the infraction, I will have any scores you shot disqualified and thrown out.
"You gotta problem with me buddy? You wanna fight!?!?!" - That Guy
There is a 100% chance of this happening somewhere.....
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If, however, it is not repealed, you WILL either comply with it, or you will leave the game. People like me will make sure of that.
I may not like all the rules, but I do follow them. And I will make sure you do to if you bowl against me. If you refuse after having been informed of the infraction, I will have any scores you shot disqualified and thrown out.
"You gotta problem with me buddy? You wanna fight!?!?!" - That Guy
There is a 100% chance of this happening somewhere.....
"LOSER GETS THEIR HOLE PLUGGED!" :o
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pros and cons to it
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If, however, it is not repealed, you WILL either comply with it, or you will leave the game. People like me will make sure of that.
I may not like all the rules, but I do follow them. And I will make sure you do to if you bowl against me. If you refuse after having been informed of the infraction, I will have any scores you shot disqualified and thrown out.
"You gotta problem with me buddy? You wanna fight!?!?!" - That Guy
There is a 100% chance of this happening somewhere.....
[/quote]
"You gotta problem with me buddy? You wanna fight!?!?!" - That Guy
There is a 100% chance of this happening somewhere.....
[/quote]
Something similar has already happened.
Around 2 years ago to me, I was confronted over the current rules concerning the recent changes to static weights governing no-thumb bowlers who have a thumbhole. (CG is now in the bridge)
The big problem with that is I was confronted/harrassed by a PBA member when I was bowling during OPEN PLAY. (Really, it's OPEN PLAY! Who gives a crap!) He also gave me crap when I was shopping at a local Target store. (He's a MUCH larger guy than I am)
I've contacted the PBA as well as local police about the Target incident, but I don't have the correct full name of the guy, but I would think the PBA could narrow down who it is and have a word with him.
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Something similar has already happened.
Around 2 years ago to me, I was confronted over the current rules concerning the recent changes to static weights governing no-thumb bowlers who have a thumbhole. (CG is now in the bridge)
The big problem with that is I was confronted/harrassed by a PBA member when I was bowling during OPEN PLAY. (Really, it's OPEN PLAY! Who gives a crap!) He also gave me crap when I was shopping at a local Target store. (He's a MUCH larger guy than I am)
I've contacted the PBA as well as local police about the Target incident, but I don't have the correct full name of the guy, but I would think the PBA could narrow down who it is and have a word with him.
I think in this type of situation you just have to realize you're dealing with a crazy person who, most likely, has problems with himself. You just have to say whatever is appropriate to diffuse the situation, whether you agree with what you're saying or not. The goal is just to make that person go away.
But to that point, I do see someone like BeerLeague (BeerLeague, I AM NOT saying YOU in particular) who is old school, appeals to tradition, "we've always done it this way", "THEY'RE the problem" who IS likely to want to pick a situation over someone simply not tolerating someone who is not playing by the same set of rules.
Again, I agree the USBC sucks at a lot of things, but you can't have someone competing in sanctioned competition that is playing by their own personal set of regulations. In non-sanctioned play or tournaments, guys should feel free to use weight holes or super juice ball juicer or whatever that shit is during competition.
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The big problem with that is I was confronted/harrassed by a PBA member when I was bowling during OPEN PLAY. (Really, it's OPEN PLAY! Who gives a crap!) He also gave me crap when I was shopping at a local Target store. (He's a MUCH larger guy than I am)
I've contacted the PBA as well as local police about the Target incident, but I don't have the correct full name of the guy, but I would think the PBA could narrow down who it is and have a word with him.
He sounds like a real Juggernaut of a man :D
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The big problem with that is I was confronted/harrassed by a PBA member when I was bowling during OPEN PLAY. (Really, it's OPEN PLAY! Who gives a crap!) He also gave me crap when I was shopping at a local Target store. (He's a MUCH larger guy than I am)
I've contacted the PBA as well as local police about the Target incident, but I don't have the correct full name of the guy, but I would think the PBA could narrow down who it is and have a word with him.
He sounds like a real Juggernaut of a man :D
There’s a reason behind that name. ::) ;)
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If, however, it is not repealed, you WILL either comply with it, or you will leave the game. People like me will make sure of that.
I may not like all the rules, but I do follow them. And I will make sure you do to if you bowl against me. If you refuse after having been informed of the infraction, I will have any scores you shot disqualified and thrown out.
"You gotta problem with me buddy? You wanna fight!?!?!" - That Guy
There is a 100% chance of this happening somewhere.....
"You gotta problem with me buddy? You wanna fight!?!?!" - That Guy
There is a 100% chance of this happening somewhere.....
[/quote]
Something similar has already happened.
Around 2 years ago to me, I was confronted over the current rules concerning the recent changes to static weights governing no-thumb bowlers who have a thumbhole. (CG is now in the bridge)
The big problem with that is I was confronted/harrassed by a PBA member when I was bowling during OPEN PLAY. (Really, it's OPEN PLAY! Who gives a crap!) He also gave me crap when I was shopping at a local Target store. (He's a MUCH larger guy than I am)
I've contacted the PBA as well as local police about the Target incident, but I don't have the correct full name of the guy, but I would think the PBA could narrow down who it is and have a word with him.
[/quote]
Wait, WHAT?
So you are saying that during OPEN play, some PBA guy confronted you about the current rules? Then later, followed (or just happened to see you there) you to Target and started up again?
Something says to me that this isn't about bowling.
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If, however, it is not repealed, you WILL either comply with it, or you will leave the game. People like me will make sure of that.
I may not like all the rules, but I do follow them. And I will make sure you do to if you bowl against me. If you refuse after having been informed of the infraction, I will have any scores you shot disqualified and thrown out.
"You gotta problem with me buddy? You wanna fight!?!?!" - That Guy
There is a 100% chance of this happening somewhere.....
"You gotta problem with me buddy? You wanna fight!?!?!" - That Guy
There is a 100% chance of this happening somewhere.....
Something similar has already happened.
Around 2 years ago to me, I was confronted over the current rules concerning the recent changes to static weights governing no-thumb bowlers who have a thumbhole. (CG is now in the bridge)
The big problem with that is I was confronted/harrassed by a PBA member when I was bowling during OPEN PLAY. (Really, it's OPEN PLAY! Who gives a crap!) He also gave me crap when I was shopping at a local Target store. (He's a MUCH larger guy than I am)
I've contacted the PBA as well as local police about the Target incident, but I don't have the correct full name of the guy, but I would think the PBA could narrow down who it is and have a word with him.
[/quote]
Wait, WHAT?
So you are saying that during OPEN play, some PBA guy confronted you about the current rules? Then later, followed (or just happened to see you there) you to Target and started up again?
Something says to me that this isn't about bowling.
[/quote]
Yes, that is what I'm saying. Asked around about him and am told that he is believed to be a PBA Regional player. Never even met the guy before the incident.
I'm wondering if he thinks that because he's a card holder that his poop doesn't stink.
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If, however, it is not repealed, you WILL either comply with it, or you will leave the game. People like me will make sure of that.
I may not like all the rules, but I do follow them. And I will make sure you do to if you bowl against me. If you refuse after having been informed of the infraction, I will have any scores you shot disqualified and thrown out.
"You gotta problem with me buddy? You wanna fight!?!?!" - That Guy
There is a 100% chance of this happening somewhere.....
"You gotta problem with me buddy? You wanna fight!?!?!" - That Guy
There is a 100% chance of this happening somewhere.....
Something similar has already happened.
Around 2 years ago to me, I was confronted over the current rules concerning the recent changes to static weights governing no-thumb bowlers who have a thumbhole. (CG is now in the bridge)
The big problem with that is I was confronted/harrassed by a PBA member when I was bowling during OPEN PLAY. (Really, it's OPEN PLAY! Who gives a crap!) He also gave me crap when I was shopping at a local Target store. (He's a MUCH larger guy than I am)
I've contacted the PBA as well as local police about the Target incident, but I don't have the correct full name of the guy, but I would think the PBA could narrow down who it is and have a word with him.
Wait, WHAT?
So you are saying that during OPEN play, some PBA guy confronted you about the current rules? Then later, followed (or just happened to see you there) you to Target and started up again?
Something says to me that this isn't about bowling.
[/quote]
Yes, that is what I'm saying. Asked around about him and am told that he is believed to be a PBA Regional player. Never even met the guy before the incident.
I'm wondering if he thinks that because he's a card holder that his poop doesn't stink.
[/quote]
I don't care how big he is, I would tell that guy to go piss-up-a-rope.
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My disposition would have changed drastically at Target.
Something along the lines of:
I’m going to tell you this once. Get the (bleep) out of my face.
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My disposition would have changed drastically at Target.
Something along the lines of:
I’m going to tell you this once. Get the (bleep) out of my face.
You have more tact than me. I would have told him to go f*** himself at the bowling alley.
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My disposition would have changed drastically at Target.
Something along the lines of:
I’m going to tell you this once. Get the (bleep) out of my face.
You have more tact than me. I would have told him to go f*** himself at the bowling alley.
I really try to be non-confrontational. I like the places I bowl at and wouldn’t want to cause trouble for them.
But show up at another place and continue to attack me, then it becomes a threat to me. Time to stop that stuff ASAP.
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My disposition would have changed drastically at Target.
Something along the lines of:
I’m going to tell you this once. Get the (bleep) out of my face.
You have more tact than me. I would have told him to go f*** himself at the bowling alley.
I really try to be non-confrontational. I like the places I bowl at and wouldn’t want to cause trouble for them.
But show up at another place and continue to attack me, then it becomes a threat to me. Time to stop that stuff ASAP.
Yea, but if as the poster said, I'm open bowling and he wants to bitch to me about my ball in regards to USBC rules? Let's just say I'm not going to be a nice guy about it.
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My disposition would have changed drastically at Target.
Something along the lines of:
I’m going to tell you this once. Get the (bleep) out of my face.
You have more tact than me. I would have told him to go f*** himself at the bowling alley.
I really try to be non-confrontational. I like the places I bowl at and wouldn’t want to cause trouble for them.
But show up at another place and continue to attack me, then it becomes a threat to me. Time to stop that stuff ASAP.
Yea, but if as the poster said, I'm open bowling and he wants to bitch to me about my ball in regards to USBC rules? Let's just say I'm not going to be a nice guy about it.
Believe me guys, I wanted to really tell the guy off. But considering I was already in trouble in the law for possession and detonation of fireworks, I need to play things cool. Not at all legal in Illinois, whatever :(
I did my best just to laugh it off and believe in karma - this dude will eventually get what's coming to him.
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My disposition would have changed drastically at Target.
Something along the lines of:
I’m going to tell you this once. Get the (bleep) out of my face.
You have more tact than me. I would have told him to go f*** himself at the bowling alley.
I really try to be non-confrontational. I like the places I bowl at and wouldn’t want to cause trouble for them.
But show up at another place and continue to attack me, then it becomes a threat to me. Time to stop that stuff ASAP.
Yea, but if as the poster said, I'm open bowling and he wants to bitch to me about my ball in regards to USBC rules? Let's just say I'm not going to be a nice guy about it.
Believe me guys, I wanted to really tell the guy off. But considering I was already in trouble in the law for possession and detonation of fireworks, I need to play things cool. Not at all legal in Illinois, whatever :(
I did my best just to laugh it off and believe in karma - this dude will eventually get what's coming to him.
That's because this state sucks.
Milo, I want to get a Nationals team together with you and go get into some trouble.
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My disposition would have changed drastically at Target.
Something along the lines of:
I’m going to tell you this once. Get the (bleep) out of my face.
You have more tact than me. I would have told him to go f*** himself at the bowling alley.
I really try to be non-confrontational. I like the places I bowl at and wouldn’t want to cause trouble for them.
But show up at another place and continue to attack me, then it becomes a threat to me. Time to stop that stuff ASAP.
Yea, but if as the poster said, I'm open bowling and he wants to bitch to me about my ball in regards to USBC rules? Let's just say I'm not going to be a nice guy about it.
Believe me guys, I wanted to really tell the guy off. But considering I was already in trouble in the law for possession and detonation of fireworks, I need to play things cool. Not at all legal in Illinois, whatever :(
I did my best just to laugh it off and believe in karma - this dude will eventually get what's coming to him.
(https://cdn.someecards.com/someecards/filestorage/chicago-illinois-postcard-us-postcards-ecards-someecards.png)
Grew up near LaSalle.
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(https://cdn.someecards.com/someecards/filestorage/chicago-illinois-postcard-us-postcards-ecards-someecards.png)
^^^^^^^^^ HAHAHAA!
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I live in DeKalb. This is truth.
GTGT, wanna get in with me and Milo for a nats team just to cause some trouble?
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I live in DeKalb. This is truth.
GTGT, wanna get in with me and Milo for a nats team just to cause some trouble?
I honestly would if I weren't committed to a group right now.
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My disposition would have changed drastically at Target.
Something along the lines of:
I’m going to tell you this once. Get the (bleep) out of my face.
You have more tact than me. I would have told him to go f*** himself at the bowling alley.
I really try to be non-confrontational. I like the places I bowl at and wouldn’t want to cause trouble for them.
But show up at another place and continue to attack me, then it becomes a threat to me. Time to stop that stuff ASAP.
Yea, but if as the poster said, I'm open bowling and he wants to bitch to me about my ball in regards to USBC rules? Let's just say I'm not going to be a nice guy about it.
Believe me guys, I wanted to really tell the guy off. But considering I was already in trouble in the law for possession and detonation of fireworks, I need to play things cool. Not at all legal in Illinois, whatever :(
I did my best just to laugh it off and believe in karma - this dude will eventually get what's coming to him.
That's because this state sucks.
Milo, I want to get a Nationals team together with you and go get into some trouble.
I have four teams heading for Syracuse in July. But next year, I will have room for Vegas if you are interested.
I tend to take a group rather than a single team. For Vegas, there will probably be 6 to 8 teams in my group.
Steven(from this site) has joined us on several occasions, so he can vouch for how much of a bunch of assholes we are. ;D
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My disposition would have changed drastically at Target.
Something along the lines of:
I’m going to tell you this once. Get the (bleep) out of my face.
You have more tact than me. I would have told him to go f*** himself at the bowling alley.
I really try to be non-confrontational. I like the places I bowl at and wouldn’t want to cause trouble for them.
But show up at another place and continue to attack me, then it becomes a threat to me. Time to stop that stuff ASAP.
Yea, but if as the poster said, I'm open bowling and he wants to bitch to me about my ball in regards to USBC rules? Let's just say I'm not going to be a nice guy about it.
Believe me guys, I wanted to really tell the guy off. But considering I was already in trouble in the law for possession and detonation of fireworks, I need to play things cool. Not at all legal in Illinois, whatever :(
I did my best just to laugh it off and believe in karma - this dude will eventually get what's coming to him.
That's because this state sucks.
Milo, I want to get a Nationals team together with you and go get into some trouble.
I have four teams heading for Syracuse in July. But next year, I will have room for Vegas if you are interested.
I tend to take a group rather than a single team. For Vegas, there will probably be 6 to 8 teams in my group.
Steven(from this site) has joined us on several occasions, so he can vouch for how much of a bunch of assholes we are. ;D
-
Something similar has already happened.
Around 2 years ago to me, I was confronted over the current rules concerning the recent changes to static weights governing no-thumb bowlers who have a thumbhole. (CG is now in the bridge)
The big problem with that is I was confronted/harrassed by a PBA member when I was bowling during OPEN PLAY. (Really, it's OPEN PLAY! Who gives a crap!) He also gave me crap when I was shopping at a local Target store. (He's a MUCH larger guy than I am)
I've contacted the PBA as well as local police about the Target incident, but I don't have the correct full name of the guy, but I would think the PBA could narrow down who it is and have a word with him.
I think in this type of situation you just have to realize you're dealing with a crazy person who, most likely, has problems with himself. You just have to say whatever is appropriate to diffuse the situation, whether you agree with what you're saying or not. The goal is just to make that person go away.
But to that point, I do see someone like BeerLeague (BeerLeague, I AM NOT saying YOU in particular) who is old school, appeals to tradition, "we've always done it this way", "THEY'RE the problem" who IS likely to want to pick a situation over someone simply not tolerating someone who is not playing by the same set of rules.
Again, I agree the USBC sucks at a lot of things, but you can't have someone competing in sanctioned competition that is playing by their own personal set of regulations. In non-sanctioned play or tournaments, guys should feel free to use weight holes or super juice ball juicer or whatever that shit is during competition.
I'm pretty laid back .... but here is the thing...... I have seen SO MANY 2 handers CHEAT all the time .... thumholes they may or may not use, flipping the ball around backwards, just tons and tons of BS .... they shoot their honor scores, destroy every pattern they bowl on because they cannot, or refuse to play the pattern straighter until the burn develops, and basically thumb their noses at the rules for YEARS.
I don't means to say all 2 handers are cheaters, BUT there sure has been a lot of rule bending by a lot of them. You cannot deny those actions are the catalyst for the new rule changes.
Now I have to plug and destroy my equipment because I have been playing by the rules for years? I'm not going to do it and I am quite sure I'm not alone. What about all the thumbless recreational beer bowlers with their 15 year old resin ball? You going to tell them its illegal now? Do you think they care? Do the league secretaries care? Do the proprietors? Who is going to enforce these rules? THe USBC won't even tape a lane anymore when someone shoots 900.
Its just madness ... and enough noise will be made where the rules will change by the time they are scheduled to be implemented.
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>Its just madness ... and enough noise will be made where the rules will change by the time they are scheduled to be implemented.
Honestly the only thing that has any chance of getting the USBC to change the rules is if the number of sanctioned leagues falls off a cliff. Money talks.
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Now I have to plug and destroy my equipment because I have been playing by the rules for years? I'm not going to do it and I am quite sure I'm not alone. What about all the thumbless recreational beer bowlers with their 15 year old resin ball? You going to tell them its illegal now? Do you think they care? Do the league secretaries care? Do the proprietors? Who is going to enforce these rules? THe USBC won't even tape a lane anymore when someone shoots 900.
Its just madness ... and enough noise will be made where the rules will change by the time they are scheduled to be implemented.
I'm with YOU GUYS! I'm not changing a damn thing! Just finished telling one of my drillers on another page......I MIGHT bowl one USBC sanctioned league next season!! MIGHT!! if at all!
All the rest of my leagues will be bowled unsanctioned! USBC can kiss my arse, until they can come up with a way to logically reimburse me for plugging all my equipment!
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Now I have to plug and destroy my equipment because I have been playing by the rules for years? I'm not going to do it and I am quite sure I'm not alone. What about all the thumbless recreational beer bowlers with their 15 year old resin ball? You going to tell them its illegal now? Do you think they care? Do the league secretaries care? Do the proprietors? Who is going to enforce these rules? THe USBC won't even tape a lane anymore when someone shoots 900.
Its just madness ... and enough noise will be made where the rules will change by the time they are scheduled to be implemented.
I'm with YOU GUYS! I'm not changing a damn thing! Just finished telling one of my drillers on another page......I MIGHT bowl one USBC sanctioned league next season!! MIGHT!! if at all!
All the rest of my leagues will be bowled unsanctioned! USBC can kiss my arse, until they can come up with a way to logically reimburse me for plugging all my equipment!
I’m not happy about plugging the weight holes on 6-8 games either. It will have almost no impact on ball performance, so it’s a complete waste of money and effort. I wish the USBC had the balls to just address the 2-handers, who seem to be the primary target of the change.
But the bottom line is that the rule isn’t going to change, and bowling non-sanctioned leagues is the equivalent of spitting in the wind. If you’re serious about bowling, you’re probably bowling USBC and/or PBA tournaments, which are out the window if you’re not sanctioned.
Going overboard on reacting doesn’t accomplish anything.
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I’m not happy about plugging the weight holes on 6-8 games either. It will have almost no impact on ball performance, so it’s a complete waste of money and effort.
If it has almost no impact on ball performance, then why drill them with extra holes to begin with?
I wish the USBC had the balls to just address the 2-handers, who seem to be the primary target of the change.
I don’t see that, at least not insomuch as the thumbhole/weight hole issue. I am glad, however, that they are getting rid of that “triangle grip†thing.
Now, making them throw the ball the same way every time I see, but I don’t understand not letting them have an ACTUAL thumbhole in their ball, especially if they shoot spares using the thumb.
But the bottom line is that the rule isn’t going to change, and bowling non-sanctioned leagues is the equivalent of spitting in the wind. If you’re serious about bowling, you’re probably bowling USBC and/or PBA tournaments, which are out the window if you’re not sanctioned.
Going overboard on reacting doesn’t accomplish anything.
Agree with this statement wholeheartedly.
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If it has almost no impact on ball performance, then why drill them with extra holes to begin with?
Mostly to conform with the 1 ounce USBC side weight limit. In the vast majority of cases, filling the hole and adding 1-2 ounces of side weight back into the ball isn't going to make a difference that most bowlers will be able to see. There's a very small minority of bowlers who drill extra holes for the expressed purpose maxing out flare, but I question if all that extra imbalance is doing much to improve their scores. So be it.
I don’t see that (mostly addressing the 2-handers), at least not insomuch as the thumbhole/weight hole issue. I am glad, however, that they are getting rid of that “triangle grip†thing.
Now, making them throw the ball the same way every time I see, but I don’t understand not letting them have an ACTUAL thumbhole in their ball, especially if they shoot spares using the thumb.
We're seeing the impacts different. That's OK.