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Author Topic: usbc sportshot crap  (Read 19729 times)

tfav44

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usbc sportshot crap
« on: April 20, 2008, 05:12:34 AM »
is anyone else sick of the sportshot crap the usbc keeps shoving at us, I have read that league bowling membership is declining, iknow that this is true in my area. I live in mich. and the decline of the auto industry is having a huge impact on our leagues.Jobs, Money, and time are tight so guys are having to cut back. the usbc is basically ignoring normal house leagues and is pushing pba experience and sport leagues. the thing is we don't have the time and disposable income to devote to having all this extra equipment and practice time. everyone on my team averages over 200, we have all decided to cut back to once a week bowling. we tired of the usbc telling us that what we are doing doesn't measure up and for the "integrity of the game we should switch to a pba exp. league.
thats my rant
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tfav44
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zerorev

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Re: usbc sportshot crap
« Reply #151 on: April 23, 2008, 09:46:51 PM »
^^^^^^^^
Very Good Point Eagle

302efi

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Re: usbc sportshot crap
« Reply #152 on: April 23, 2008, 09:56:18 PM »
EagleHunter good point as well, but heres the question.

How many total USBC league bowlers are there ?

How many of them go to Nationals ?


If there is big difference in the numbers, then you have a problem.
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I will head to my local pro shop. Right after I buy it online.


Sport Bowling is a F**king joke

EagleHunter

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Re: usbc sportshot crap
« Reply #153 on: April 23, 2008, 10:15:44 PM »
My reply to that is simple...

USBC membership has been declining yearly.
Participation in USBC Nationals has been increasing yearly.

In my area, our Local Association tournament is a THS (2384 currently leading scratch AE) and participation has been decreasing for awhile now.  And the percentage of participants vs. members is quite disparate.

TDC57

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Re: usbc sportshot crap
« Reply #154 on: April 23, 2008, 10:41:13 PM »
I don't how old most of you guys are but I've been bowling leagues since the early 70s. I don't believe in nearly 40 years of bowling the game was ever meant to be tough. Challenging maybe, tough no. In the 70s we used rubber or plastic balls on lacquer and then urethane lane surfaces. There were times the lanes were very easy in those days and then urethane (harder) finishes came along and made the game much straighter. Ball companies then after seeing (pros soaking their bowling balls in solvents to get some friction on the lanes), started to make softer balls such as the Shor D. This started to increase the scores because of more hook. The equipment then morphed to urethane and the ABC in their stupidity went to short oiled lanes. This sent bowling out of whack in a big way.

Enter resin, particle, dynamic cores, etc. and the game agained changed. This very high friction equipment created the need for more oil and led eventually to walled shots. The predicament bowling is in was not created by proprietors putting out easy shots. It started with pro soaking balls in solvents in order to create higher scores. It followed with ball companies making softer ewuipment in order to create higher scores. It led to more oil on the lanes to keep the balls from hooking off the lanes which in turn made ball companies create wild weight blocks in which smart ball drillers set up balls to over power the lanes no matter what condition was laid out. Then bowlers started leaving the game in droves for reasons that were not bowling related and everybody got on their soap boxes giving varying reasons why this was happening. The proprietors then trying to save their business started making it easier to score and in many cases too easy. Scores went nuts and some bowlers carried averages higher than their ability should allow. This hacked off guys who had put in time honing their games for higher levels of competition. They never quit chirping and want the game toughened up to bring these high scoring clowns back to earth. This, if it happens, will cause a further loss of bowlers. WHAT A VICIOUS CIRCLE.

The walled shot did not cause any of the problems bowling is in. The bowlers who put in their time becoming expert bowlers still win the lion's share of of all tournament money but they still aren't happy. They want those damn THS bowler's averages down where they belong. This would give the THS bowlers higher handicaps and a better chance to win more tournament money which would really pizz off the expert bowlers and make them wish for a new change that would eliminate those hack bowlers entirely. Oh what a tangled web we weave!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

zerorev

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Re: usbc sportshot crap
« Reply #155 on: April 23, 2008, 10:55:36 PM »
How do you know they left because of non bowling related reasons?

TDC57

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Re: usbc sportshot crap
« Reply #156 on: April 23, 2008, 11:10:56 PM »
30 years working as a lane maintenance guy and 35 years as a bowler. Family commitments, more outside interests, cost of the night out, length of the season, DUI laws and in general, just the change of life styles over the years are the main reasons. Lane conditions play a minimal part of leaving. Life is different, that's it.

One thing you must remember is that the USBC stats on the dropoff of bowlers is not really correct. They count lost sanctions from each league. The fact is the majority of this loss is the guy that goes from 4 leagues a week to one. The USBC counts this a 3 bowler loss when in fact it is not. It's just there are many less multi-league bowlers as there were in the 70s, 80s and 90s.

Edited on 4/23/2008 11:24 PM

EagleHunter

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Re: usbc sportshot crap
« Reply #157 on: April 23, 2008, 11:23:27 PM »
Those are valid reasons for the decline in membership at ABC/WIBC/USBC.  However it does not explain the reasons for the decline in the Sport of bowling.  The lane conditions, bowler egos, proprietors looking only to improve their current bottom line without regard for what their future will look like, etc., those are more along the lines of why the Sport is in decline.

I would argue that most of those members that have left were "fringe" members; those that were only members because their leagues didn't give them a choice.  As I have said before, real bowlers will continue to bowl (barring only injury or family commitments).  If you could easily give up the sport, or the game, then you "like to bowl" but are not a bowler.

JessN16

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Re: usbc sportshot crap
« Reply #158 on: April 23, 2008, 11:26:30 PM »
quote:
My reply to that is simple...

USBC membership has been declining yearly.
Participation in USBC Nationals has been increasing yearly.



Everyone likes a big-time challenge every now and then but not every time they shoe up.

I played golf for years and was part of a traveling group that would play a different course just about every week. I'd say once a month, we'd make it a point to play a real ballbuster -- I live in Alabama, and we have the famous Robert Trent Jones Golf Trail, and any course on it will humble anyone. But we didn't play that every week. Usually, we played one cake course, one super-tough course and a couple of courses in the middle each month.

I wish all state tournaments would be contested on a tough shot, perhaps even a sport-compliant one. The Nationals should absolutely be contested on a tough shot. From talking to some of my state tournament teammates last week, it sounds like the Nationals shot may have been easier than it should have been.

But there's a difference between special occasions and your weekly league, and weekly leagues should not be forced into sport conditions, period. Several people I've talked to who went to Nationals this year said the allure of the tournament was almost completely the specialness of it; they had very little desire otherwise to trek 2,000+ miles.

Jess

302efi

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Re: usbc sportshot crap
« Reply #159 on: April 23, 2008, 11:27:00 PM »
Very Nice post Tony C!

The part that really should open people eyes are:

 
quote:
(pros soaking their bowling balls in solvents to get some friction on the lanes)


Most the "truests" say that the "real" bowlers didn't have any advantages beside their skill back in bowlings hey days!

What about putting weights in balls ?. I remember seeing some balls actually wobble going down the lane..lol

If old school bowlers looked and found ways to make the game easier and score higher, how can they complain about the THS now !
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quote:
I will head to my local pro shop. Right after I buy it online.


Sport Bowling is a F**king joke

Edited on 4/23/2008 11:32 PM

zerorev

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Re: usbc sportshot crap
« Reply #160 on: April 23, 2008, 11:27:48 PM »
Maybe with a tougher condition bowlers would feel the need to bowl more to stay at a higher level. Right now you can bowl 1 night a week no practice and be over 200. Just a thought. I could be wrong. But if bowling is your sport you find money to bowl. I know there are other factors as to what you can spend but just maybe....

zerorev

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Re: usbc sportshot crap
« Reply #161 on: April 23, 2008, 11:31:23 PM »
And I am not saying your league shot should be uber difficult just enough so that good or decent shots are rewarded and bad ones are not. People bowl to compete. If you didn't want to compete why keep track of wins and losses.

TDC57

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Re: usbc sportshot crap
« Reply #162 on: April 23, 2008, 11:37:31 PM »
I have seen guys average 210-220 and bowl once a week and not throw a ball during the summer. I take these guys with me to numerous tournaments at many different houses. I take them to our State tournament which has went to a tougher sport type shot for D and S and a less difficult shot for the team event. These same once a week bowlers tear it up on both shots. Could someone please explain how they do this or is it possible some guys are just very good bowlers and a lack of practicing does not affect them?

zerorev, I could not agree with you more. League shots should not be super easy, they should reward you if you throw the ball correctly and penalize if you don't. From my experience, that condition will still have guys averaging very high.

Edited on 4/23/2008 11:40 PM

zerorev

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Re: usbc sportshot crap
« Reply #163 on: April 23, 2008, 11:47:06 PM »
I know a guy who averaged 240 for many years left for a year came back and guess what he was just as good as when he left. Some bowlers will be like that they are called talented they are the exception not the rule. But you have many bowlers who do the same not based on talent but based on equipment combined with soft conditions. Again I am not trying to say drive bowlers away from the sport but trying to bring more bowlers in. Most people would not even consider bowling until they see how difficult it truly is. I have brought alot of people to the sport of bowling just by educating and showing how great of a sport it is. This is where I agree with Jess education about the sport is paramount to its success.

Edited on 4/23/2008 11:49 PM

TDC57

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Re: usbc sportshot crap
« Reply #164 on: April 23, 2008, 11:59:35 PM »
zerorev, believe me when I say that I am not trying to get into an argument with you because I believe we both want bowling to grow. I personally don't know what the answer is for that because I've seen it in it's heyday and now in it's decline. I know what drew bowlers to the game then and know what has made them leave. Where you and I part ways is I don't believe there's one person out there waiting to see bowling toughen up the game before they get involved. Bowling is not so easy you can just pick up a ball and average 200. I watch young guys who think they are great athletes (and they are in other sports) pick up a bowling ball and look like goofs. The so called once a week 200 average guys developed some kind of game practicing before they ever joined a league. Any argument to the contrary is a lie.

Edited on 4/24/2008 0:12 AM

zerorev

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Re: usbc sportshot crap
« Reply #165 on: April 24, 2008, 12:12:56 AM »
I am also not trying to argue. I also agree people aren't waiting for bowling to get tougher they just don't know how tough it is already. It becomes even more difficult to impart that to someone with the scoring out of whack as it is.