Author Topic: USBC to eliminate Special Achievements Awards.... (Read 17330 times)

titletowncards · « **on:** July 10, 2009, 03:54:54 AM »

I got this in an email from the USBC Rules Extra:

Rule Changes

The USBC Board of Directors and delegates approved several changes to the Playing Rules, Awards, and Bylaws. Changes that could affect regular league play deal with legal lineup (Rule 109a), vacancy scores (Rule 105) and playoffs (Rules 113a and 113b). The Youth awards program has been expanded; the adult average requirements for averaged based awards are changed; and Special Achievements Awards (Dutch 200, All Spare Game, Triplicate, 7-10 and Big Four Conversions) are eliminated; see Chapter 3 of the 2009-2010 Playing Rules available August 1.

Personally, I think this stinks. I'm very proud of my two career 7-10 conversions and last year I got a patch for a Dutch 200. My Grandma (who got me started in bowling) has an All Spare Game patch from 1988, she still talks about how proud she is of it.
This is one of my problems with the USBC, how come they don't ask members first before doing this stuff?
What are some other thoughts on this?
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titletowncards

Atochabsh · « **Reply #31 on:** July 13, 2009, 12:04:12 AM »

quote:
Still haven't had anybody step up to the plate and tell us what the USBC would focus on if they were in charge

I think I did. I said that there are bowlers already out there bowling in organized leagues that are not sanctioned. At least one league a week per center. Bowlers ready to sanction, they are already bowling they are already in a group, they already enjoy the sport. You just have to convince them that they are getting some return for their sanctioning dues.

Erin

nextbowler · « **Reply #32 on:** July 13, 2009, 02:02:08 AM »

Cool- I bowl in a league that did not get our money. Isn't that a fact? As
a regular member of the league, I trusted that all rules were being followed.
Criminal charges have been filed. Isn't that a fact?

Atochabsh · « **Reply #33 on:** July 13, 2009, 09:01:32 PM »

quote:
Ato, really? Thats how you would change things by stating there is a leauge bowling that is not sanctioned.

absolutely. These people already want to bowl in leagues are in fact bowling in leagues. They are already in established groups. USBC only has to prove to them that their sanctioning dues are worth the money. But I guess they cannot do that, therefore they do not target this group of ready made bowlers.

Atochabsh · « **Reply #34 on:** July 13, 2009, 11:21:41 PM »

13 centers, nearly 10000 bowlers, 200+ leagues. I know this because I'm the one that data entries all the sanctioned leagues and their bowlers. I'm also a USBC Director. I also attend and support as many of our 13 winter Secretary Workshops (one per center) as I can to help educate attending secretaries in any yearly changes to USBC rules and forms. I'm very familiar with our centers and the leagues and time slots taken up in each center. I know that you can go to an unsanctioned senior league at center A on Thurs afternoon, then Friday morning at 10am go to center B and bowl another unsanctioned league then go to center C Friday afternoon at 12:30 and bowl another unsanctioned league. This is not uncommon for any of our centers. All except the college center we service have at least one unsanctioned senior league a week. The Friday noon league at the center we havce our pro shop at fills all 32 lanes every week summer and winter. Now sure some of these bowlers are sanctioned through other leagues. But there is certainly bowlers thath are not sanctioned that could be sanctioned if they felt it was worth their dollars. Consequently USBC seems to be focused on getting unsanctioned youth leagues sancgtioned. We have NONE of those in any of our centers. All our leagues that include youth are sanctioned.

Erin

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #35 on:** July 14, 2009, 06:10:53 AM »

CRD you right I did. Presenting those ideas and others like that also generates money for who? USBC. USBC eliminating some of their overstaffed positions like they promised also helps.

Beside ideas for leagues I also mentioned that they need to regulate the lane conditions/oil patterns, give awards, and stop being so wasteful with money.

What equipment regulations for bowling balls have they enforced to help the game?

They do not enforce their own rules or regulations in regards to bowling centers. They will certify any bowling ally to keep leagues and money for the USBC. Honor scores bowled on an "illegal" oil pattern still count. Lanes with arrows missing from the boards and bondo on the lanes with water leaking on them from the ceiling are still sanctioned.

Talk to someone who does the local inspections for USBC and find out what they are suppose to look for at bowling alleys.

The lanes are checked to be level within a certain guideline, that the kickboards are within regulations and another thing or two that has little to know effect with everything they choose to ignore.

So they are a governing body that makes rules. Does not enforce most of the rules. Tries to make as much money as possible to give back to.... themselves and their overstaffed positions. Makes rules for league play that usually has no real enforcement other then you can say well it is against the rules but you have no punishment for breaking them.

If you think they are doing what they should that is fine. No one can change your mind. I still haven't seen you give points where they have done anything other then bond leagues and make rules and regulations.(they did regulate that the USBC logo be put on all new bowling balls, that isn't self serving) If that is all you think they should do, then yes they have done that.

Usually Erin has some good insight on USBC as a joke
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" hand, don't step on the lanes without some "

azguy · « **Reply #36 on:** July 14, 2009, 07:58:15 AM »

quote:
This is one of my problems with the USBC, how come they don't ask members first before doing this stuff?

Who would they ask ? The swollen heads that average over 220 on a walled shot ? The beginner league person ? You can probably ask 100 bowlers and get at least 60-75 different answers.

As some have stated before, who wears the patches ? Some in my area do. Some made shadow boxes and places the awards in them. Some just put them in a dresser and don't remember them.

I've never had and probably never will have a 300 game, so for me, cut out the rings, I don't care. The 11 in a row plaque they gave out last year was a piece of junk, IMO. I have no idea how many 11 in a rows they gave out but I would think it could be something a bit nicer looking.

My point is, who would you ask ? For my opinion, the "big boys" would be upset, no 5,6,7 rings in the box or to auction off on ebay. If you asked the "big boys" then all the patches would go away.

As far as enforcing the rules, one league sent off three actions against folks last season. Sure their cards were pulled, so what ? The stopped bowling anyway, nothing really happened, the league lost the money. Several rules are written with an 'escape clause' that it's hard to really enforce, then what happens ? The appeal, the 'escape clause' is pulled and again, nothing happens.

Personally, I'm going to bring up to one league we don't sanction, might fly might not. As far as awards, patches and plaques, already have costs, designs, and as far as cost, it is $2.00 total, more than projected cost to sanction. Up to the bowlers.

I think there'll come a time that the USBC just priced for what one gets, right out of the picture. I may be wrong but that's my opinion.
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az guy aka: R & L Bowlers Pro
rlbowlerspro@cox.net

Edited on 7/14/2009 9:46 AM

Atochabsh · « **Reply #37 on:** July 14, 2009, 09:39:42 AM »

quote:
Maybe you should try to get a movement going where Seniors have their own sanctioning fees and awards.

We used to before the merger. The problem now is that our operating costs are so high (after the merger) that we are constantly fighting to stay in budget and the black. Now with the Jr dues hit we are losing another $1/bowler. We used to get $3 local dues per youth bowler, now USBC says we can only take $2. When I was at the workshop in our area, I asked them how we were supposed to make up that loss of income. Their reply was that we should raise tournament dues for our various city tournaments. Its obvious that they did not fully think this youth restructure through. We're taking a hit in revenue while some areas are now getting more. Of course the cost of doing business in places like Ca, NY and MD are more then AB, MS or OK. But they did not consider these demographics. If USBC raises their fees next year (it almost passed this year) we will lose more seniors. But USBC seems so focused on the youth, that they are ignoring a huge population of bowlers that have supported this sport for their entire lives.

I think if those associations that are merged, knew then what they know now about being merged they would not have.

Erin

Atochabsh · « **Reply #38 on:** July 14, 2009, 09:57:43 AM »

Lane Certification is a sore spot too. Being on the certification committee is a tough go. Its hard manual labor in uncertain conditions, usually on Sunday mornings very very early. Centers don't want to bother stripping lanes so its down right dangerous for our volunteers. The centers don't want to pay an employee to show up at dawn to let us in. It difficult to get volunteers to do such tough strenuous work. All to realize that USBC will never hold back a league's sanction due to lack of compliance of the center. Honor awards will never be witheld due to illegal shots. So for the certification crew its like banging our heads against a wall. We tell the center where they need to make fixes to be in compliance and some don't do it. We recheck, its not done. USBC gives them more time. We recheck, its not done. USBC gives them more time. We do zero lineage and that's a big battle because its supposed to be no advance warning to the center. They kick and scream every time. "We didn't know, you didn't warn us" to which we replay "that's the whole idea." And when they aren not in compliance they either ignore us, or make the adjustments temporary until we recheck. We're doing the best we can. But without USBC's support its impossible to demand any compliance.

Now some of the centers are in so bad repair that it would take thousands and thousands to make all the repairs. It gets to the point where a center would have to close down rather then make all the repairs needed. So what is better? A closed down house or poorly conditioned one? In our area, we have multiple centers to bowl in. But many areas do not.

Please volunteer for center certification. Every USBC assoc. should be doing their centers now. They always need the help.

Erin

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #39 on:** July 14, 2009, 10:05:48 AM »

CRD I bowl in central Arkansas and until a few years ago there were limited choices. The bowling alley in mention was one of four in the central AR area all owned by one individual who nearly ruined bowling for the area.

They next closest bowling centers were 30 plus minutes away,(if there was no traffic) as opposed to 5 min. Luckily someone came in and opened a new center. At one time when those other centers were owned by separate people, and individual bowling and membership in our local bowling association was at an all time high. Through one individuals monopoly and running businesses into the ground it was greatly decreased.

Through the worst of times letters/complaints were sent to USBC to which nothing was done. The reason being is they won't bite the hands that feed them. This is when I learned that inspections are merely a scare tactic. USBC will give you a list of things that need to be done but you have no need to really change them. Had the bowling alley not been recently leveled I would go take pics of the lanes and pins that USBC still sanctioned year in and year out.

Bowling centers that were their for 50 plus years and had used lanes when they were originally opened and still have those same lanes till they were closed. Bowling centers that couldn't have leagues on nights or weeks where it rained too much because it flooded the pin decks, lanes, and other areas. A place that had 60 to 80 5 gallon buckets hanging from the ceiling to prevent water from getting on the lanes. They also had employees get on the roof after the storms to sweep and shopvac the water off. How it wasn't closed sooner by code enforcement I will never know. But it was really was there and it was USBC sanctioned.

Once the new centers opened I left. I just point that out to say that USBC doesn't enforce these rules on bowling centers, only the manufactures of these products that go into bowling centers.

So why invest in all of this equipment to study bowling balls and polish and whatever if you will certify a parking lot to bowl league on if they submit the paper work. That is where it makes no sense.

I have no problem in paying higher sanction fees through the years if I knew it was getting used to do what it is suppose to. It isn't, and that is the problem. If there only job is to create rules and govern the sport then I can live with that just fine as long as they do. They take the easy route of enforcing this to manufactures and their products but not to what is already in place in bowling centers all across the country that are USBC certified.
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" hand, don't step on the lanes without some "

Atochabsh · « **Reply #40 on:** July 14, 2009, 04:25:20 PM »

To the best of my knowledge there are no longer any field representatives for USBC.

Erin

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #41 on:** July 14, 2009, 06:12:16 PM »

quote:
kid,

Your bit$h isn't with the USBC, it's with the local association. They are the arm of the USBC in your neck of the woods. Sounds like that arm is broken. I would be mad at USBC for not monitoring if their field officer in your area is actually doing his job or not.

This past season I went to the local meetings of CABA(local association) and know several of the board members real well.(they are also theo nes who I have talked with about the USBC and learned how they don't do a lot of helping for the local level at all)

They are very knowledgeable and well respected people who know the rules of USBC extremely well. They expressed the concerns and problems to the USBC with no actions in return. Maybe an offical letter of thanks for your concerns.

Regardless of where I live it is just one example of the USBC not doing its job. So here is the easy question.

How well does USBC do at governing our sport?

I will post this in a separate thread from TTC original post here about USBCs rules changes on awards. I think they should keep the awards they are getting rid of since the USBC says awards are part of its benefits of membership.

AT least no body has threaten anybody on here. Most debates on here are usually just people getting mad and insulting the other person and their bowling company.
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" hand, don't step on the lanes without some "

LordWalrus · « **Reply #42 on:** July 15, 2009, 10:02:13 AM »

The USBC is trying to serve many different types of bowlers with only a single (or a few) product(s). Well, there is no 'one size fits all'. Casual league bowlers, youth bowlers, tournament bowlers, sport players, and whoever else all need something different. Until the USBC can put a product in place that works for everyone this kind of debate will continue.

If the Friday night Happy Hour Drinking Challenge league players don't care about lane certifications but do care about their 200 patch, give it to them. If the sport shooter wants lane certification and doesn't give a hoot about a patch, give them their package. Charge folks accordingly for the options they pick. Create an ala carte menu for the leagues to select from. I want a sanctioned average to take to tournaments, a ring if I shoot 300, and an plaque if I shoot an 800 series. How much is that?

Bowlers, like any other customers, aren't going to buy something that doesn't work for them. People are getting more careful with their money these days, not less so.
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\/\/

Atochabsh · « **Reply #43 on:** July 15, 2009, 10:16:29 AM »

quote:
If the idiot that owns the center doesn't know how to call a roofer, or can't afford one... he should get out of the bowling business. That is not the image any business should have. After ALL his customers leave, he will be gone too.

I've been in WAY too many bowling alleys that had to put buckets on their lanes whenever it rained. This is NOT uncommon. But it is a good tell of how little money bowling centers make. Especially if they are not the state of the art "Family Entertainment" center.

Erin

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #44 on:** July 15, 2009, 10:36:03 AM »

The one I mentioned was leveled about 6 months ago. His other one had closed/foreclosed on and his last one is open play only.

We had a new center open about 5 years ago which led to everyone leaving the others and their closing shortly there after.

So what happens when our local association checks for When I bowl, I want to be confident that the lane specs have been checked pin weights gutter depths pin deck tilt etc...

and reports everything to the USBC who in return still says it is ok we will sanction it?

Because they don't inspect the whole lane. Arrows and dots aren't important. Gaps between the lanes and gutters aren't important? The first 20 feet of the lane having more dimples then a golf ball wasn't important? Water damage not important? I'm not sure about the pins because he had a lot left overs from the years and just mixed and matched whatever he could find.

They should have never been sanctioned and they were. Year after year. If you could shoot an honor score there you could easily bowl anywhere.

It isn't that he didn't make money. He was loaded. He spent his money on everything but the bowling alley. Which is why they were in the condition they were in, and why people stopped bowling there.

Like Erin said there are a lot of bowling alleys in that condition and unless they close and build a new one they probably will continue to remain in that condition.
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" hand, don't step on the lanes without some "

titletowncards · « **Reply #45 on:** July 15, 2009, 11:09:04 AM »

+1 LordWalrus, I think your idea's are great. It would be fairly easy to do.
Great thought!
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titletowncards

Author Topic: USBC to eliminate Special Achievements Awards.... (Read 17330 times)

titletowncards

USBC to eliminate Special Achievements Awards....

Atochabsh

Re: USBC to eliminate Special Achievements Awards....

nextbowler

Re: USBC to eliminate Special Achievements Awards....

Atochabsh

Re: USBC to eliminate Special Achievements Awards....

Atochabsh

Re: USBC to eliminate Special Achievements Awards....

kidlost2000

Re: USBC to eliminate Special Achievements Awards....

azguy

Re: USBC to eliminate Special Achievements Awards....

Atochabsh

Re: USBC to eliminate Special Achievements Awards....

Atochabsh

Re: USBC to eliminate Special Achievements Awards....

kidlost2000

Re: USBC to eliminate Special Achievements Awards....

Atochabsh

Re: USBC to eliminate Special Achievements Awards....

kidlost2000

Re: USBC to eliminate Special Achievements Awards....

LordWalrus

Re: USBC to eliminate Special Achievements Awards....

Atochabsh

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kidlost2000

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titletowncards

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