Post by: titletowncards on July 10, 2009, 03:54:54 AM
Rule Changes
The USBC Board of Directors and delegates approved several changes to the Playing Rules, Awards, and Bylaws. Changes that could affect regular league play deal with legal lineup (Rule 109a), vacancy scores (Rule 105) and playoffs (Rules 113a and 113b). The Youth awards program has been expanded; the adult average requirements for averaged based awards are changed; and Special Achievements Awards (Dutch 200, All Spare Game, Triplicate, 7-10 and Big Four Conversions) are eliminated; see Chapter 3 of the 2009-2010 Playing Rules available August 1.
Personally, I think this stinks. I'm very proud of my two career 7-10 conversions and last year I got a patch for a Dutch 200. My Grandma (who got me started in bowling) has an All Spare Game patch from 1988, she still talks about how proud she is of it.
This is one of my problems with the USBC, how come they don't ask members first before doing this stuff?
What are some other thoughts on this?
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titletowncards
Post by: slashrr69 on July 10, 2009, 12:21:51 PM
Post by: J_w73 on July 10, 2009, 02:05:12 PM
and why get rid of the 7-10 patch.. they give out less 7-10 patches then 300 rings..
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: mainzer on July 10, 2009, 03:23:38 PM
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''If their is a life after death,
then their is no death,
and if their is no death,
we do not live''
Progressive Metal Band
EVERGREY
MainzerPower
Edited on 7/10/2009 3:37 PM
Post by: Bluff on July 10, 2009, 03:37:14 PM
all those POS awards who give a F anyway. Better offer put the $18 in price fund. or Buy award rings and do you own. who care about 7 -10 split , 100 pin over average or even 300's. ALl Meaning less.
Always a good laught when someone wear their 300 rings and 800 rings lol
is made in china for less the 10 cent ea. Only low self estem and loosers wear those lol
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I like bowling because it give me 3 holes of fun.
Post by: mrbowlingnut on July 10, 2009, 03:44:49 PM
Do we really need 3 ladies for youth bowling???? Carolyn, Diandra and Kim are a huge waste of money. They probably get 100k a year or so and do make a few appearances to make it look good.
Yes they really needed a brand new building off of your sanction dues lol
I think they should all employees have there pay posted on bowl.com for us to review and see what we all think of this.
Post by: bowlerdawg on July 10, 2009, 03:49:25 PM
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c/2 flavored kool - aide is my favorite, but I am looking for black raspberry flavor
Post by: titletowncards on July 10, 2009, 04:01:58 PM
"mrbowlingnut" is right, do they really need all these spokespeople for Youth bowling, or collegiate bowling. Such a waste of our money.
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titletowncards
Post by: sluggo35 on July 10, 2009, 04:12:54 PM
Post by: BobOhio on July 10, 2009, 04:43:24 PM
I feel sorry for you.
Bob G
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BobOhio
GO BUCKS
Post by: LuvThatWhiteDot on July 10, 2009, 05:38:30 PM
:: polishes the WIBC 300 ring while sitting here typing this::
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White Dot
Every time I hear the word exercise, I wash my mouth out with chocolate.
www.luvthatwhitedot.bowlspace.com
Post by: DON DRAPER on July 10, 2009, 09:38:29 PM
Post by: EagleHunter on July 10, 2009, 09:46:18 PM
Personally, I have most of the special achievement awards. If someone asks me about the ACCOMPLISHMENT, I can tell them most of the details about it. If they ask me about the AWARD...I tell them I have no idea where my patch is. After all, the ACCOMPLISHMENT is what is important, not the AWARD!
If anyone needs the 10cent patch to show off how great they are (FIGJAM), then I suppose this is unfortunate for them. However, awards are won and lost on a daily basis. If USBC kept awarding these special achievement awards and bowlers LOST them, would their ACCOMPLISHMENTS be lost as well?
We all know the answer to that. This is no great loss for anyone. It is, at best, yet another exceptionally weak reason to rip on USBC (and the WHOLE $10 they collect from each bowler). If you don't like it, then don't certify.
Post by: pattonkegler on July 11, 2009, 12:39:39 AM
Post by: titletowncards on July 11, 2009, 12:56:28 AM
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titletowncards
Post by: azguy on July 11, 2009, 06:01:14 AM
Triplicates I have had one a year for the past 3 years, I'm proud of them as well. I just with they's done something special the the last two as they were 187 games, both times. OK, so it's not your 240 games but I'm as proud of them as anyone, especially since all 6 were the same score.
We have one mixed league that the patches are special to them, looks like we may decide to not sanction, have to see. Agree, we pay a good chunk of change and it seems every year we get less and less for what we pay.
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az guy aka: R & L Bowlers Pro
rlbowlerspro@cox.net
Post by: rexb300 on July 11, 2009, 06:56:27 AM
I am a assoc secy
yes there will be no award patch for those special awards but
I heard they would maybe go on the websight like the 300's ect
or maybe would get a paper with award and date not for sure yet.
the new awards are magnets that can stick to frig or ? YA
But the got the new high score awardform new type 300 or 800 rings
11 in row trophy and the gold silamen or whatever for $50 for rings
also can put name on side on rings and a number of awards for $20
be on bowl.com after august.
RB
Post by: EagleHunter on July 11, 2009, 12:51:14 PM
The point is someone, somewhere, some time ago decided these splits deserved special recognition. Now, someone, somewhere has decided these splits no longer deserve an award. Yet this does not diminish the recognition of the accomplishment of converting the split.
As for the accomplishment of the 6-7-10...not a big deal to me, at least no bigger than any other split conversion...looks the same on the scoreboard. That said, as a league secretary/treasurer, I've had plenty of bowlers come up and ask if they get an award for that exact conversion. They often cannot believe they don't get something for it. Again, they assume that since it has a greater difficulty they should get something.
That is the problem that ABC/WIBC created, and USBC now has to fix. Bowlers now believe they should received something just because THEY think it is hard enough. Any split conversion (or other "special" achievement) carries a level of accomplishment with it, but I'm afraid such accomplishment does not make it award-worthy.
Post by: jthales on July 11, 2009, 01:59:27 PM
Post by: nextbowler on July 11, 2009, 02:41:08 PM
I knew that men were in trouble when the 3 entities combined, as we are always
weakened when women get involved. I greatly resent the money spent on paying
a few women to make money in tournament bowling. The sponsorship should not
come out of our dues. Am I a chauvinist? You bet, I have seen what has happened to mens' programs with the Title 9 implementation. For example, look
what has happened to mens' collegiate wrestling and the loss of programs.
Post by: rexb300 on July 11, 2009, 03:46:39 PM
I just cut short the basic for next season you will see what I mean then
cause I am not for sure yet what USBC will do on some stuff.
sorry if I confused anyone.
Post by: Xcessive_Evil on July 11, 2009, 04:41:45 PM
quote:
USBC is heading for self destruction. I see they will be gone soon
all those POS awards who give a F anyway. Better offer put the $18 in price fund. or Buy award rings and do you own. who care about 7 -10 split , 100 pin over average or even 300's. ALl Meaning less.
Always a good laught when someone wear their 300 rings and 800 rings lol
is made in china for less the 10 cent ea. Only low self estem and loosers wear those lol
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I like bowling because it give me 3 holes of fun.
About as incoherent as it gets.
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You may be the better bowler, but my car would blow the doors off of yours.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v690/Phoenix_RsX/Arsenal/
Post by: EagleHunter on July 11, 2009, 08:50:58 PM
What do you mean that USBC doesn't do enough for the average bowler? With the exception of the high score awards (300 & 800), darn near EVERY other award is some type of average based award...do you think those are for the high average bowler? Most of the USBC awards are for the average bowler almost exclusively.
The complaint about USBC using member dues to support only Women's bowling...I'm not sure that is so true. While the Women's events are more numerous the prize money probably is similar to, or less than, that put up for the USBC Masters. If it is not, then perhaps you have a valid argument.
jthales,
Are there that many NEW bowlers that convert the Big Four or the 7-10? Do that many NEW bowlers join to get these "priceless" special awards? As a secretary/treasurer I have seen the look from some of the new bowlers when you hand them the priceless chevron. I can tell you, it often is not a "thank you for making my day" look. It is more of the "what is this crap you are giving me" or "this is what I paid for" look.
Post by: rge on July 11, 2009, 09:57:30 PM
Personally, I would very much like USBC to change some of their practices. It makes sense to give a single 800, 300, 299 or 298 award in a lifetime, but allow bowlers to purchase (as is done now for 299's and 298's) additional rings, watches, etc. when they shoot a second, third, etc. I also think it would make sense for some kind of tiered memberships. It makes no sense for the every other week couples league bowler to pay the same dues as I do for bowling three nights a week. He should pay less. I should pay more. As for how exactly our money is being spent, good luck in figuring that one out. A lot is definitely spent on the Masters, Queens, the women's events on ESPN and for advertising during the PBA telecasts. How much? Who knows. The one thing we can be sure of is that no one is going to tell us.
The one area that I really like what they are beginning to propose, is the idea of tiered lane conditions similar to the blue, white and red tees on a golf course. Choose to bowl on the "blues" (the sport shots) if you want a challenge or the "reds" (house China) if you want to stand left and toss right. Theoretically, average conversion charts could be used to make handicap tournaments and events more equitable and awards could be based on the difficulty of the shot. A 300 on the blues could warrant a ring or something similar while one from the reds could get you a patch.
The one thing that USBC doesn't seem to do very well at all is to actually get out and listen to what the average member has to say. It's difficult to be part of an organization that gives you the impression that those at the top seem to think they know what's good for you without ever asking.
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Rats get fat. Good men die.
Post by: nextbowler on July 11, 2009, 11:38:16 PM
not. Because you are not smart enough to understand, there will be no charge
for the lesson. I have seen this type of thing much longer and closer up than
you have. For others, who only have the singular vision to understand what
"average" could mean, consult your thesaurus.
Post by: Atochabsh on July 12, 2009, 05:38:26 PM
I package up thousands of special achievement awards every year (over 2000 200 game emblems this year alone) and help get them distributed to our 13 centers. If we are tardy in that mission we get the phone calls from the secretaries wanting to know where their awards are for their bowlers. Now if you don't want the award there is an option on the sheet to not get it, tell your secretary. If you don't want more then one ring per year then donate to some of the various options on the award form. But you can only donate your first honor award each season. Its meaningless to mark "donate" once you already have your ring for that particular year, no donation will be given.
The problem is that for most bowlers, they see their bowling fees going up. That's including lineage at their center as well. And where the USBC is concerned they don't see any return and even less return for the increase. Right now we have several leagues in most of our centers that will not sanction. They don't see the point. And all of these are senior leagues. USBC should be looking into how they can gain those sanctions, the bowlers are already bowling. No need to even seek out new bowlers (i.e. youth) there are already non sanctioned bowlers in organized non sanctioned leagues.
Erin
Post by: nextbowler on July 12, 2009, 06:32:34 PM
their prize money absconded with and USBC will do nothing to secure their bond.
Post by: Atochabsh on July 12, 2009, 07:00:52 PM
quote:
I know of 4 leagues at Sams Town that had
their prize money absconded with and USBC will do nothing to secure their bond.
Nearly every year we have a league that has "missing" prize fund. The steps that USBC has set forth to regain that prize fund are final and specific. If the league does not follow them to the letter (and none have so far) then USBC will not bond the money.
Erin
Post by: kidlost2000 on July 12, 2009, 09:04:37 PM
Didn't Brunswick and Bayer have a throwbot and a super CATS system long before USBC. Didn't USBC try to come up with retarded rules like no weight holes for bowling balls and other stupid rules because they had no clue what they were doing. Ball cleaner list means nothing as well. You pay to submit your product for approval. That takes a lot of work.
Ths USBC is about money.(collecting) Thats why certain balls are banned as well. They were never paid and submitted to their testing to be approved.
USBC is what it is. To say they are growing bowling and making it better is sad and delusional.
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" hand, don't step on the lanes without some "
Post by: kidlost2000 on July 12, 2009, 09:54:26 PM
If it were my chance to make changes. I would:
Eliminate duplicate job titles. That was the original intentions of the joining of the different governing bodies. Trim the fat at the top first.
Not adding the new Texas office.
After seeing some of the complaints about equipment and bowing start making proper adjustments to correct it over time.
Starting with ball specs and covers moving into oil patterns. You can't make extreme changes over night but you can slowly make it back to a more challenging game with out the inflated scores.
Bring back some of the awards you got rid of. Make the 298 299 ring something. Maybe not as nice/expensive as it was but still something very respectable.
Promote growth. Try and promote some shorter leagues for new bowlers. 12 week ten team leagues with the last two weeks as a playoff system. Gear it towards getting local businesses and other people back into bowling. Maybe have a competitive companies league. Also great for less experience bowlers to join a second league to gain experience and not break the bank. It can be on a night that your other leagues don't fill the house.
League bowling for 32-36 weeks can be over whelming for newer bowlers learning the game. It can also be expensive and difficult for people that want to bowl more then one league and can't.
Leagues use to be full of teams sponsored by local business because they all bowled. Try and get some of that back with these shorter beginner leagues.
Try for a national bowling night out. (if it doesn't already exist)
Try coming up with some new tournament ideas where you can qualify in every state(you qualify in your actual state, every state has a winner) and move on to bowl in a national tournament. Or just move to a larger regional event where you can win your region. (Probably just singles and or doubles style tournament.)
Bowling on tv is expensive but you can promote some of the regional USBC tournaments and other amateur tournaments on youtube for free.
Promote these ideas on popular networking sites like myspace,facebook, and tweeter. Also free.
Get youth involved through these sites as well. Have shorter youth leagues. Heard they may be dividing the youth season into two parts/seasons. Which is good except they are going to charge them twice on their sanction fees which is not smart.
Youth bowling is getting more popular in high school sports. Build off that and promoting college bowling as well. Get word out about the scholarships available at colleges through bowling. It worked for all sports including golf.(yes Tiger helped as well for the youth players that started playing golf)
That is a start. I will think of more.....
Get other successful like minded people to help develop your sport similar to
other popular sports. lol That one doesn't count.
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" hand, don't step on the lanes without some "
Post by: Atochabsh on July 13, 2009, 12:04:12 AM
quote:
Still haven't had anybody step up to the plate and tell us what the USBC would focus on if they were in charge
I think I did. I said that there are bowlers already out there bowling in organized leagues that are not sanctioned. At least one league a week per center. Bowlers ready to sanction, they are already bowling they are already in a group, they already enjoy the sport. You just have to convince them that they are getting some return for their sanctioning dues.
Erin
Post by: nextbowler on July 13, 2009, 02:02:08 AM
a regular member of the league, I trusted that all rules were being followed.
Criminal charges have been filed. Isn't that a fact?
Post by: Atochabsh on July 13, 2009, 09:01:32 PM
quote:
Ato, really? Thats how you would change things by stating there is a leauge bowling that is not sanctioned.
absolutely. These people already want to bowl in leagues are in fact bowling in leagues. They are already in established groups. USBC only has to prove to them that their sanctioning dues are worth the money. But I guess they cannot do that, therefore they do not target this group of ready made bowlers.
Post by: Atochabsh on July 13, 2009, 11:21:41 PM
Erin
Post by: kidlost2000 on July 14, 2009, 06:10:53 AM
Beside ideas for leagues I also mentioned that they need to regulate the lane conditions/oil patterns, give awards, and stop being so wasteful with money.
What equipment regulations for bowling balls have they enforced to help the game?
They do not enforce their own rules or regulations in regards to bowling centers. They will certify any bowling ally to keep leagues and money for the USBC. Honor scores bowled on an "illegal" oil pattern still count. Lanes with arrows missing from the boards and bondo on the lanes with water leaking on them from the ceiling are still sanctioned.
Talk to someone who does the local inspections for USBC and find out what they are suppose to look for at bowling alleys.
The lanes are checked to be level within a certain guideline, that the kickboards are within regulations and another thing or two that has little to know effect with everything they choose to ignore.
So they are a governing body that makes rules. Does not enforce most of the rules. Tries to make as much money as possible to give back to.... themselves and their overstaffed positions. Makes rules for league play that usually has no real enforcement other then you can say well it is against the rules but you have no punishment for breaking them.
If you think they are doing what they should that is fine. No one can change your mind. I still haven't seen you give points where they have done anything other then bond leagues and make rules and regulations.(they did regulate that the USBC logo be put on all new bowling balls, that isn't self serving) If that is all you think they should do, then yes they have done that.
Usually Erin has some good insight on USBC as a joke
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" hand, don't step on the lanes without some "
Post by: azguy on July 14, 2009, 07:58:15 AM
quote:
This is one of my problems with the USBC, how come they don't ask members first before doing this stuff?
Who would they ask ? The swollen heads that average over 220 on a walled shot ? The beginner league person ? You can probably ask 100 bowlers and get at least 60-75 different answers.
As some have stated before, who wears the patches ? Some in my area do. Some made shadow boxes and places the awards in them. Some just put them in a dresser and don't remember them.
I've never had and probably never will have a 300 game, so for me, cut out the rings, I don't care. The 11 in a row plaque they gave out last year was a piece of junk, IMO. I have no idea how many 11 in a rows they gave out but I would think it could be something a bit nicer looking.
My point is, who would you ask ? For my opinion, the "big boys" would be upset, no 5,6,7 rings in the box or to auction off on ebay. If you asked the "big boys" then all the patches would go away.
As far as enforcing the rules, one league sent off three actions against folks last season. Sure their cards were pulled, so what ? The stopped bowling anyway, nothing really happened, the league lost the money. Several rules are written with an 'escape clause' that it's hard to really enforce, then what happens ? The appeal, the 'escape clause' is pulled and again, nothing happens.
Personally, I'm going to bring up to one league we don't sanction, might fly might not. As far as awards, patches and plaques, already have costs, designs, and as far as cost, it is $2.00 total, more than projected cost to sanction. Up to the bowlers.
I think there'll come a time that the USBC just priced for what one gets, right out of the picture. I may be wrong but that's my opinion.
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az guy aka: R & L Bowlers Pro
rlbowlerspro@cox.net
Edited on 7/14/2009 9:46 AM
Post by: Atochabsh on July 14, 2009, 09:39:42 AM
quote:
Maybe you should try to get a movement going where Seniors have their own sanctioning fees and awards.
We used to before the merger. The problem now is that our operating costs are so high (after the merger) that we are constantly fighting to stay in budget and the black. Now with the Jr dues hit we are losing another $1/bowler. We used to get $3 local dues per youth bowler, now USBC says we can only take $2. When I was at the workshop in our area, I asked them how we were supposed to make up that loss of income. Their reply was that we should raise tournament dues for our various city tournaments. Its obvious that they did not fully think this youth restructure through. We're taking a hit in revenue while some areas are now getting more. Of course the cost of doing business in places like Ca, NY and MD are more then AB, MS or OK. But they did not consider these demographics. If USBC raises their fees next year (it almost passed this year) we will lose more seniors. But USBC seems so focused on the youth, that they are ignoring a huge population of bowlers that have supported this sport for their entire lives.
I think if those associations that are merged, knew then what they know now about being merged they would not have.
Erin
Post by: Atochabsh on July 14, 2009, 09:57:43 AM
Now some of the centers are in so bad repair that it would take thousands and thousands to make all the repairs. It gets to the point where a center would have to close down rather then make all the repairs needed. So what is better? A closed down house or poorly conditioned one? In our area, we have multiple centers to bowl in. But many areas do not.
Please volunteer for center certification. Every USBC assoc. should be doing their centers now. They always need the help.
Erin
Post by: kidlost2000 on July 14, 2009, 10:05:48 AM
They next closest bowling centers were 30 plus minutes away,(if there was no traffic) as opposed to 5 min. Luckily someone came in and opened a new center. At one time when those other centers were owned by separate people, and individual bowling and membership in our local bowling association was at an all time high. Through one individuals monopoly and running businesses into the ground it was greatly decreased.
Through the worst of times letters/complaints were sent to USBC to which nothing was done. The reason being is they won't bite the hands that feed them. This is when I learned that inspections are merely a scare tactic. USBC will give you a list of things that need to be done but you have no need to really change them. Had the bowling alley not been recently leveled I would go take pics of the lanes and pins that USBC still sanctioned year in and year out.
Bowling centers that were their for 50 plus years and had used lanes when they were originally opened and still have those same lanes till they were closed. Bowling centers that couldn't have leagues on nights or weeks where it rained too much because it flooded the pin decks, lanes, and other areas. A place that had 60 to 80 5 gallon buckets hanging from the ceiling to prevent water from getting on the lanes. They also had employees get on the roof after the storms to sweep and shopvac the water off. How it wasn't closed sooner by code enforcement I will never know. But it was really was there and it was USBC sanctioned.
Once the new centers opened I left. I just point that out to say that USBC doesn't enforce these rules on bowling centers, only the manufactures of these products that go into bowling centers.
So why invest in all of this equipment to study bowling balls and polish and whatever if you will certify a parking lot to bowl league on if they submit the paper work. That is where it makes no sense.
I have no problem in paying higher sanction fees through the years if I knew it was getting used to do what it is suppose to. It isn't, and that is the problem. If there only job is to create rules and govern the sport then I can live with that just fine as long as they do. They take the easy route of enforcing this to manufactures and their products but not to what is already in place in bowling centers all across the country that are USBC certified.
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" hand, don't step on the lanes without some "
Post by: Atochabsh on July 14, 2009, 04:25:20 PM
Erin
Post by: kidlost2000 on July 14, 2009, 06:12:16 PM
quote:
kid,
Your bit$h isn't with the USBC, it's with the local association. They are the arm of the USBC in your neck of the woods. Sounds like that arm is broken. I would be mad at USBC for not monitoring if their field officer in your area is actually doing his job or not.
This past season I went to the local meetings of CABA(local association) and know several of the board members real well.(they are also theo nes who I have talked with about the USBC and learned how they don't do a lot of helping for the local level at all)
They are very knowledgeable and well respected people who know the rules of USBC extremely well. They expressed the concerns and problems to the USBC with no actions in return. Maybe an offical letter of thanks for your concerns.
Regardless of where I live it is just one example of the USBC not doing its job. So here is the easy question.
How well does USBC do at governing our sport?
I will post this in a separate thread from TTC original post here about USBCs rules changes on awards. I think they should keep the awards they are getting rid of since the USBC says awards are part of its benefits of membership.
AT least no body has threaten anybody on here. Most debates on here are usually just people getting mad and insulting the other person and their bowling company.
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" hand, don't step on the lanes without some "
Post by: LordWalrus on July 15, 2009, 10:02:13 AM
If the Friday night Happy Hour Drinking Challenge league players don't care about lane certifications but do care about their 200 patch, give it to them. If the sport shooter wants lane certification and doesn't give a hoot about a patch, give them their package. Charge folks accordingly for the options they pick. Create an ala carte menu for the leagues to select from. I want a sanctioned average to take to tournaments, a ring if I shoot 300, and an plaque if I shoot an 800 series. How much is that?
Bowlers, like any other customers, aren't going to buy something that doesn't work for them. People are getting more careful with their money these days, not less so.
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\/\/
Post by: Atochabsh on July 15, 2009, 10:16:29 AM
quote:
If the idiot that owns the center doesn't know how to call a roofer, or can't afford one... he should get out of the bowling business. That is not the image any business should have. After ALL his customers leave, he will be gone too.
I've been in WAY too many bowling alleys that had to put buckets on their lanes whenever it rained. This is NOT uncommon. But it is a good tell of how little money bowling centers make. Especially if they are not the state of the art "Family Entertainment" center.
Erin
Post by: kidlost2000 on July 15, 2009, 10:36:03 AM
We had a new center open about 5 years ago which led to everyone leaving the others and their closing shortly there after.
So what happens when our local association checks for When I bowl, I want to be confident that the lane specs have been checked pin weights gutter depths pin deck tilt etc...
and reports everything to the USBC who in return still says it is ok we will sanction it?
Because they don't inspect the whole lane. Arrows and dots aren't important. Gaps between the lanes and gutters aren't important? The first 20 feet of the lane having more dimples then a golf ball wasn't important? Water damage not important? I'm not sure about the pins because he had a lot left overs from the years and just mixed and matched whatever he could find.
They should have never been sanctioned and they were. Year after year. If you could shoot an honor score there you could easily bowl anywhere.
It isn't that he didn't make money. He was loaded. He spent his money on everything but the bowling alley. Which is why they were in the condition they were in, and why people stopped bowling there.
Like Erin said there are a lot of bowling alleys in that condition and unless they close and build a new one they probably will continue to remain in that condition.
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" hand, don't step on the lanes without some "
Post by: titletowncards on July 15, 2009, 11:09:04 AM
Great thought!
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titletowncards
Post by: kidlost2000 on July 15, 2009, 11:39:33 AM
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" hand, don't step on the lanes without some "
Post by: Atochabsh on July 15, 2009, 11:47:15 AM
Erin
Post by: kidlost2000 on July 15, 2009, 01:36:49 PM
"Then you can get a very good idea of how difficult it is to get the information you are asking for."
What information did I ask for?
(Other then why USBC would certify a parking lot to bowl on other then to collect money.)
I have actually contacted one of the guys here that does it in reference to helping.
I like many people don't have saturday sundays off. I work a rotating shift between 7a-3p, 3p-11-p, and 11p-7a with wed-thur off. I rotate every two months.
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" hand, don't step on the lanes without some "
Post by: dragon213456 on July 15, 2009, 03:16:09 PM
On the outside some will look at those 4 awards and say “who cares…â€, and looking at it in a certain way you may be correct. I mean how hard can it be to pick up a 7 – 10/Big 4, or how about a Dutch 200? Who can’t keep throwing a strike on one lane and a spare on another? A Triplicate Game…please don’t waste my time
But then again…
Over the last few years the USBC as a whole has gone thru some tremendous changes and in my opinion a few things have come to the forefront of Bowling in general:
1. Fee Increase
2. League Bowling on the Decline
3. USBC
Let’s Look at each…
Fee Increase: Exactly where are my sanction fees going? All I see for my sanction fees are a Sanction Card and some patches. If the argument is that the price of patches has gone up…show me, for that matter what is the price of a patch? If the sanction fee is (just a round figure) $15 bucks and you have 100 people in your league (20 lanes x 5 person teams) that means you have collected $1,500 in sanction fees. Now out of that $1,500…how much of it is spent on patches in that league? If half is spent in patches…where does the rest go? So if the argument is that special achievement patches are getting too expensive…I find that hard to believe since every year the fees increase…hmmm
League Bowling on the Decline: I don’t have the numbers and I’m a retired military member bowling on leagues located at Ft. Huachuca in Az so I will be a bit biased in this area, but…my main league is a Men’s League on Thursday nights…20 teams with each team consisting of 5 men…the names may change but we always have 20 teams and while some military do bowl…the league is not dependant on them. So simple math says that if fees increase and the leagues (at least in my area) have not really declined…someone is making a profit in fees…and yet the special achievement Awards have to go...hmmm
USBC: Here is where I really get confused…USBC moves from point A to point B…exactly where did all the money (I would love to see pay structure on where the money came from, where it is going/went, and the salaries of those involved ) come from to build the structures, and make the move in general? If USBC can afford to do that…then keep the special achievement awards…
While people may feel that the special achievement awards are nothing special, they are the awards that people brag about the most…and most times they are earned by those bowlers that may not bowl as often as league bowlers. 7 – 10/Big 4 is not easy to pick up…neither is an all spare game or a Dutch…so USBC if your reading this, getting rid of those special achievement awards is pretty stupid…but more importantly it shows us (you know those guys that pay the sanction fees) just how low you will go. What bothers me are how decisions like this get passed and then the thought process behind it, you never explain why…just what you decided to do…and think about this, in the past you (USBC) have stated that league bowling is the decline, you make very silly decisions like this one and can’t figure out why league bowling may be on the decline…just keep making silly decisions like that and you won’t have our sanction fees to pay for anything. But here is the scary part…what decisions are you going to make in the future?
But here is something you should be worried about…what if we (league bowlers) decide we don’t need sanctioned leagues….
Post by: kidlost2000 on July 15, 2009, 03:39:54 PM
They pull awards including 298 299. If they pull 300 800 so you have to pay extra for it then you don't need sanctions.
You also have other sanctioning bodies you can go with.
More places may choose to go with them instead.
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" hand, don't step on the lanes without some "
Post by: kidlost2000 on July 15, 2009, 04:45:35 PM
If you have to pay $75 to get a ring you use to get for the price or joining? You no longer get 298 or 299 for that price.
You also get really cheap awards for what use to be something nice. Eleven in a row award was a plaque, and now is a sticker on cardboard.
Plus it appears three patches will no longer exist. So we shouldn't complain and just say thanks for taking our money and awards?
If you don't like something you should say something.
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" hand, don't step on the lanes without some "
Post by: dragon213456 on July 15, 2009, 05:21:16 PM
Post by: Mr Old School on July 15, 2009, 06:47:21 PM
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Mr. Old SchoolIf you can't swing it, Your probally throwing brunswick!
My Equipment:
v-2 particle V-2 sanded
V-2 pearl V-2 dry!Edited on 7/15/2009 7:03 PM
Post by: kidlost2000 on July 15, 2009, 07:09:36 PM
Which would you rather have or not have to help cut some cost? (and give some options) Put it at the beginning of the season with your sanction card form to be filled out and turned in with the card. That way it wouldn't cost much extra to ask the bowlers.
How much money is saved on the 7-10 patch? Really?
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" hand, don't step on the lanes without some "
Post by: kidlost2000 on July 15, 2009, 09:01:29 PM
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" hand, don't step on the lanes without some "
Post by: kidlost2000 on July 16, 2009, 01:10:10 AM
I will bowl regardless. I will continue to comment on what I think is good or bad about the USBC as well.
"Can't believe all the whining going on. "They shouldn't have moved here", "They do this too much", They don't do this enough"! Shut up and go bowl already. None of it matters when you're on the lanes!"
Your only solution to problems is shut up and bowl. Wow, you should work in government.
Hey USBC went bankrupt due to miss management....shut up and bowl. Hey the bowling center went out of business due to financial problems from a lack of bowlers.....shut up and bowl.
Maybe you should come up with a better idea. At no time in any of your post have you had one, other then USBC is fine, awards don't matter, I don't care if the sanction fees go up every year and they provide less service. You must work with USBC because that is there mentality on things.
Shut up and bowl, let us worry about what we do with your money. Sounds USBC to me.
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" hand, don't step on the lanes without some "
Edited on 7/16/2009 1:19 AM
Post by: kidlost2000 on July 16, 2009, 10:31:12 AM
I, and most would gladly pay more if it was going to keep the quality of the product where it is. But we are slowly paying more for less. I'm involved locally with USBC. I attend meetings and I'm hoping to go out to help with inspections of lanes before the summer is over. I also send emails to the appropriate people on things I think are warranted as feedback. They like any governing body may disregard it and follow there own agenda but I still made more of an effort and made my comments known.
If I wanted to be President of USBC or Vice President it appears I would have to drop my average, not bowl anything and then I would be a perfect candidate.
I'm not sure what you bowl or how much, but eventually USBC is going to stop doing something that effects you and in return I hope your solution isn't to shut up and bowl but maybe do something about it.
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" hand, don't step on the lanes without some "